Return to Transcripts main page
CONNECT THE WORLD
Qatar Under Fire For Worker's Rights; FIFA Will Not Compensate European Clubs If World Cup Moved To Winter; Behind ISIS Ideology; The New ISIS Front: Libya
Aired February 25, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AREF ALI NAYED, LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO UAE: This is a country that instead of building itself has become the ATM machine, the gas station and
the platform for ISIS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, HOST: A new front in the battle against ISIS and it might be the most frightening yet. The Libyan ambassador to the United
Arab Emirates tell me how he sees his country's fight against the group.
Also ahead this hour, the controversy over the Qatar World Cup isn't only about timing, we'll ask the head of Amnesty International about
worker's rights in the Gulf state ahead of the games.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with Becky Anderson.
ANDERSON: A very good evening from the UAE. It is 8:00 here. This hour, we'll be looking at how war scarred states prove a fertile breeding
ground for ISIS and other groups.
We're going to take a look at the latest mass kidnapping by ISIS in Syria. Dozens of Christians, taken by the group, as the war there enters
its fifth year.
We're also in Iraq this hour, homeland of ISIS leader al-Baghdadi. We tour the northern front lines just 60 kilometers away from the regional
And we get a firsthand account of what it's like inside such terror group. We talk to a man who fought jihad in war torn Bosnia before moving
on to Afghanistan. Tonight, he's on set with us to tell us what made him fight and what made him give up.
But first tonight, we hear every day about their brutal reign in Syria and Iraq.
Now ISIS is expanding in a third country, I'm talking about Libya, a country where political chaos has played into the hands of the terror
group. Now there's talk of an Arab coalition to take on ISIS.
Well, just a short time ago, I sat down with the Libyan ambassador to the UAE here to talk to him about the state of his country. This is what
he told me.
NAYED: Well, I would describe Libya a crash, really, of a plane that was trying to rise and was hit by the shear winds of extremism and Islamist
ideology. It is a country that instead of building itself has become the ATM machine, the gas station and the platform for ISIS, an increasing
menace not only to Libya and our neighbors, but also to our neighbors to the north across the Mediterranean.
ANDERSON: In an op-ed this week, you wrote, and I quote, "the Libyan state failed to rise from the ashes of the 2011 uprising simply because
another state was the real aspirations of the Islamists: an Islamic State," you say in inverted commas and then (inaudible) to it is DAESH.
You could be accused of lumping all your government's Islamist opponents together.
NAYED: Go and study the last video from ISIS in Tripoli. It was just issued yesterday. The entire discourse, the narrative is straight out of
(inaudible), which is the main book of the Muslim Brotherhood's ideologues. It is straight out of their thinking.
This entire self-righteous declarations of others as infidels and then as subjecting them to killings and kidnappings comes straight out of their
vocabulary. Osama bin Laden belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood at one point, (inaudible) belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood and I believe that
the ISIS founder's narrative is completely Muslim Brotherhood based.
ANDERSON: You have outlined a disaster recovery plan. I have read it very, very carefully. It doesn't include the intervention of the
international community. Why?
NAYED: It is because we are not asking for paternalistic solutions, we are an independent people who believe in the independence of Libya, our
young people, women and men, are brave. They are more than happy to defend their country. So we're not asking for boots on the ground or for some
army to come and invade us, that is not what we're asking for.
What we're asking for is international cooperation. What we're asking for is to be part of the international consortium against ISIS. What we're
asking for is technical help, intelligence help, satellite imagery help, and a coordination effort.
ANDERSON: Egypt called this week for the United Nations security council to mandate an international coalition to intervene in Libya and
impose a naval blockade. Do you buy that?
NAYED: You know, when you call it a naval blockade it sounds, you know, dangerous and strange. What we're asking for is to stop the flow of
arms to the Islamist militias, which has continued through the sea and through the air, because they control several airports...
ANDERSON: To what extent?
NAYED: Vast, it's daily?
They also have daily flights that bring foreign fighters to Libya. They have just now -- the so-called -- you know the pseudo government in
Tripoli has just lifted these requirements for Algerians and Moroccans as if we need more foreign fighters.
So they're bringing in foreign fighters, they're bringing in weapons from all over the world and we are as a government not allowed to have
weapons and ammunition to fight ISIS and their affiliates through the UN embargo.
Our applications for importation of these things is not -- are not being approved. Meanwhile, these people are bringing in weapons and
ANDERSON: What is your sense of the short, medium and long-term future for Libya?
NAYED: I believe if the international community lives up to the recognition it has rightly granted to the duly elected parliament and the
government chosen by the parliament, it's only logical that the international community support the legitimate Libyan army. And if they
do, and if they support us in our fight against terrorism, again not by coming with an invading force or the boots on the ground, but simply
supporting our efforts and allowing the army to have the equipment it needs to conduct its operations with some intelligence and technical
coordination. I think we will win this fight and we will have elections and a constitution to base that on sooner rather than later.
If the international community continues to play appeasement with the Muslim Brotherhood and its output including these extremists, the ISIS and
other affiliates, then we are in big trouble because then Libya will fall to their full control and will become the main platform for attacks on
ANDERSON: Aref Ali Nayed speaking to me earlier.
Of course, ISIS isn't the only extremist group dominating headlines right now. One of the other major terror groups, Boko Haram, for example,
was prepared to pledge allegiance to ISIS. Well, go online, find out how closely aligned these two groups currently are and why their apocalyptic
visions could prove to be a nightmarish match for anyone who stands in their way. That's on the home page at CNN.com.
All right, we're going to move on tonight. Football's governing body and Europe's leading clubs are on a collision course. FIFA's secretary-
general says Football teams will not be compensated if the Qatar World Cup moves to the winter. Well, that is after a task force recommended the 2022
tournament be played in November and December, which would disrupt many European leagues.
Well, our Amir Daftari has been monitoring this story all day and he joins me now.
And there are a number of legs to the Qatar World Cup story, of course, clearly, and our viewers will be aware. But let's start with this
compensation story, because European clubs are quite frankly furious. Why?
AMIR DAFTARI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
Well, this all started at a press conference today. It was supposed to be a run of the mill quarterly press conference maybe reflecting on this
proposed date change to November/December for the World Cup. Then the General-Secretary Jerome Valke throws a sparrow in the works -- no
compensation, no apologies, no nothing for the European clubs. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEROME VALKE, SECRETARY-GENERAL FIFA: There will be no compensation. I mean, they have seven years to reorganize football around the world for
this World Cup. We enjoy football when all is OK, why we don't once organize ourselves and make sure that we can enjoy football in a different
environment in a different situation without someone screaming and saying that's impossible. It's not impossible, it's very possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAFTARI: Jerome Valke there who is basically President Sepp Blatter's right-hand man, saying no compensation for the European clubs.
Now why do the European clubs want compensation? Because the November/December dates that have been proposed are smack bang in the
middle of the domestic leagues. This could disrupt 50 leagues around the world. And the European ones being the most powerful are very upset.
ANDERSON: And, he says, they've got seven years to work it out, so get on with it.
Meantime, this is a World Cup, which from the beginning, has been mired in controversy, not least because of the conditions that workers who
are building the infrastructure for this tournament work under, nevermind that this tournament has moved possibly to November and December. Seven
years of these workers working in extreme temperatures to get the infrastructure ready.
DAFTARI: Now they're going to have to ramp it up. And now they're going to have to ramp it up.
ANDERSON: So what (inaudible) said about what they're going to do? Because back in November, they talked about new legislation to protect
workers. What have they said?
DAFTARI: Very little. FIFA today in a press conference said all they said was they're happy with Qatar's progress and they see it going in the
right direction. But there's been nothing significant, Becky, in terms of labor laws, hours during the summer, as you say, which you know gets
extremely hot here.
So, we'll just have to wait and see. They say the beginning of 2015 as well that when they'll address these issues. Nothing so far.
ANDERSON: This has been an issue that Amnesty International has been on for some years now. We're going to talk to their head later in this
show and find out what he thinks will happen going forward.
For the time being, thank you very much indeed. Amir Daftari in the house for you tonight.
Still to come, we will take you inside the mind of a one-time jihadi who is going to tell us why the ambitions of ISIS in Libya may be much more
wide-ranging than previously thought. A live on set interview in about 20 minute's time.
Also, ISIS brings its horror to the Assyrian Christian community in northern Syria. They swept in and took away dozens -- women, children and
the elderly. Now, an activist says the militants are about to make a new threat. That story after this first break.
Back in a couple of minutes.
ANDERSON: This is CNN and Connect the World with me Becky Anderson out of Abu Dhabi for you at 8:00 -- 12 minutes past 8:00 in the evening.
We started this hour by telling you about the spread of ISIS in Libya. Well, now to another country where the fight against the militant group is
happening daily. And CNN has been on the front line.
In northern Iraq, the Peshmerga are locked in a battle with ISIS about 60 kilometers from Irbil. CNN's senior international correspondent Ben
Wedeman went to the combat zone where the Kurdish fighters, the foot soldiers on the ground say they are gaining the upper hand.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A Peshmerga gunner keeps an eye on the river valley separating him from ISIS, letting loose
the occasional round at an enemy that rarely shows itself. But they're there. In the distance the ISIS' black banner flutters in the breeze.
Below, the village of Gwer is in Peshmerga hands; the original inhabitants fled months ago. On the far bank, in ISIS-controlled territory,
the homes have also been abandoned; this once peaceful bend in the River Zab now a battleground. The echo of gun and mortar fire regularly shatters
the calm; fingers here on the front line are usually on the trigger.
Khalis Ali commands this hilltop. He's faced off against ISIS for months and knows them well.
"They have the tactics of thieves," he says. "They sneak up on us from different directions at night. They attack our positions but we beat them
back. They can't overcome us."
After months of coalition air strikes, this veteran fighter says ISIS's onslaught has been blunted, here, at least. "Three months ago ISIS
was firing one hundred, a hundred and fifty mortar rounds a day at us, but now," he says, "They seem to be much weaker."
Weaker perhaps, but not defeated. Throughout the time we've been here, it has all been outgoing fire, from the Kurdish positions in the direction
of ISIS. But now, late in the afternoon ISIS is starting to fire back, and normally they attack at night.
That's what they tried, unsuccessfully, a week ago. The fighters shared this phone video of the ISIS fighters they managed to kill, with the
help of air strikes.
The fighters believe the tide is turning, but it's no time to let down their guard.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Gwer, northern Iraq.
ANDERSON: Well, CNN's Nic Robertson is watching the story closely joining us from our London bureau. And Ben's report, Nic, detailing the
reality on the ground in the fight against ISIS in Iraq. In Libya, the ambassador here telling me earlier on today his country has become the ATM,
the gas station and the airport for ISIS, a group reportedly importing fighters, arms and tens of millions of dollars in cash through airports
that it runs in Libya.
Is the tide really turning against this group as the coalition would want us to believe?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think the water analogy is a good one, Becky, because where you learn you see the
water seeping through the defenses in one place, you reinforce those defenses and water being water it finds another way.
The problem is is that ISIS's message has gone viral. And it attracts fighters and that's, if you will, the sort of, you know, the building
bricks for any force, so it's getting more of the building bricks. And it is growing. It is using places like Libya that have power vacuums, because
of a loss of power, because of the sort of aftermath of the Arab Spring in 2011.
So you have Libya that connects all the way across the top of North Africa, the sort of Islamic Magreb, if you will, that then connects down
through sort of sub-Saharan North Africa, connects through to Boko Haram in the north of Nigeria and places like that. So, you know, Chad, Niger, you
know some of the other countries affected.
So, while you're pushing back on one front there in Iraq, ISIS, the ideology is picking up and growing and gaining momentum in other places.
It is, as we're told, a generational fight. It's a very, very multifront fight. And like fighting water, it's just very hard to contain.
It's an ideology as well, that's the hard part.
ANDERSON: And that fight, of course, in Syria as well.
Stay with me, because I want to get a terrifying ordeal I know you've got some details on, on some of the group's latest victims in Syria and
what they are facing. As we speak as many as 150 Assyrian Christians, Nic, are being held captive by ISIS after being kidnapped from their villages on
Tuesday. We were reporting that over the past 24 hours. That is more than initially thought, and that number includes women, children and the
A human rights activist says the militants are about to send a video message to the U.S. president threatening to kill this new group of
hostages that they are holding. What more do you have on that?
ROBERTSON: Well, they really feel that this is a very imminent and real threat for them. They're looking at what happened to the Egyptian
Christians that were caught by ISIS in Libya, what's happened to the Christians of Iraq who have been captured by ISIS, that they've been either
forced to convert or killed. So it's a very, very real and imminent danger.
You know, young women, children, elderly, other older women, priests as well, we're told, have been captured. Thousands of families forced to
flee from their homes. Even 600 people were hurt, we've been told, by this activist group that may be held up inside a cathedral that actually looks
more like a small church.
And the concern is that these people, as well, may face a threat from ISIS if they're captured.
So, the 150 is the concern right now. But all these other people part of that growing concern.
We're talking about the wide impact and effect of ISIS here. And you might ask why this Assyrian community? Why these villages here? Well,
they also have their own militia. That militias has been fighting alongside, in part, with the Kurds in northeastern Syria. So maybe this is
a tactical push by ISIS to gain control over these areas where this militia operates from, or gain controls over the highways there where the Kurds are
beginning to make inroads and take territory from them. Or perhaps it's purely this sectarian hatred for Christians -- Becky.
ANDERSON: Nic Robertson reporting out of London for you this evening across the board on the story, Nic, thank you.
British prime minister David Cameron says extremism needs to be tackled on multiple fronts online and on the ground, he says. It comes
after London police said three teenage girls who flew to Turkey last week are now probably in Syria. The worry is that the young classmates are
heading there to join ISIS.
CNN's Atika Shubert has more on the ongoing investigation.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: These images of 15- year-olds Amira Abase, Shamima Begum and 16-year-old Kadiza Sultana were taken just before they boarded a plane to Turkey. Three school friends
from east London, they left no messages, no indication as to why they left. Now London police say they believe the girls are in Syria.
For nearly a week, their families hoped that they would come home. They recorded heartbreaking appeals over the weekend.
RENU BEGUM, SISTER OF SHAMIMA BEGUM: We just want you to come home. If you watch this, baby, please come home. Mom needs you more than
anything in the world. You're our baby. And we just want you home. We want you safe. Just contact anybody, let them know that you need help.
And you've got all the help in the world.
You're not in any trouble here. We all love you.
SHUBERT: But the girls may now be in ISIS controlled territory. The girls may have traveled to Syria believing they would be protected under
ISIS rule, but human rights groups say in Syria none of the warring parties, and especially ISIS militants, offer any real protection.
DONATELLA ROVERA, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: When it comes to the crunch, they look after their own interests. And they really don't think about the
civilian population and the damage that they cause to the civilian population. And this is something that I found again and again.
SHUBERT: Of the women that have traveled to Syria to join ISIS, few have returned. But the families still so desperately hope is that this
image will not be the last they see of the girls.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London.
ANDERSON: Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World with me Becky Anderson.
Still to come for you this hour, understanding Jihadi motivations can be difficult for those of us on the outside. So we're going to hear live
from a man who has been on both sides of the divide.
Before that, though, she says it was her favorite past time growing up picking herbs and fruits with her granny. Well, now a woman in Ghana
has turned that hobby into a thriving business. African Start-up is right after this short break. Stay with us.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: For millennia, the fertile lands of West Africa provided a bountiful supply of indigenous plants used
for food and medicine. In Ghana, one entrepreneur adds a new twist producing juices, syrups and other food products.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my name is Yagano Batu Oku (ph) from Ghana. And I'm the owner of Wanju (ph). Welcome.
DEFTERIOS: Batu Oku (ph) drew inspiration from childhood memories of her grandmother to create Wanju (ph) foods.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time we were going to farm she carried a basket, which she took along and fixed her fruits, vegetables, pulled out
up weeds from the ground and put it into this basket. When she came home, she would sort them out. She would dry some, boil some, or drink the
juice. And then she used some for soup.
DEFTERIOS: Wanju (ph) foods mainly sells to restaurants, but Batu Oku (ph) also hopes to attract individual customers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the hibiscus syrup. This is my highest selling product, because I have a (inaudible) who uses it for quite a lot
of the cocktails.
I currently have the hibiscus juice, the hibiscus syrup and then hibiscus wine and hibiscus vinegar. And then we take the fruit tamarind
and we put that into barbecue marinade, process it into juices, syrups as well. So those are some of the things that we do.
One of the comments I got from my tamarind juice that really made me feel great was a lady tasted it and she went beautiful. And I was like,
really, beautiful for a drink?
But I felt so good that somebody actually thought a drink could be beautiful.
DEFTERIOS: Batu Oku (ph) started her company in 2006, but it collapsed when she went for Scotland to pursue her master's degree. She
decided to revive it in 2013 after coming home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not from a business background. I actually studied art and art management. So the challenge is understanding the
business arena and how to go about things business-wise.
I would like to conquer the African market. I like my product to be in as many homes as possible.
ANDERSON: This is CNN and Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. The top stories for you this hour. And ISIS is now believed to be holding
some 150 Assyrian Christians hostage after raids on their villages. On Tuesday, women, children and elderly people are said to be amongst those
being held. An activist group says a number of the hostages have been moved to the ISIS stronghold in Raqqa.
The UK is ruling out sending combat troops to help the Ukrainian army fight pro-Russian rebels. Britain announced Tuesday that it planned to
send service members to help train Ukrainian soldiers. UK defense minister Michael Fallon told parliament Wednesday that the British government is
considering additional requests from Ukraine, but will not provide lethal assistance.
Well, FIFA says it will not compensate European football clubs that are unhappy about a potential date change for the 2022 World Cup. The
European Club Association has demanded compensation for the disruption the could be caused if the tournament in Qatar gets moved to later in the year,
which a FIFA task force is now recommending.
Drones were spotted hovering over Paris landmarks for a second night in a row. Police say they don't know who is operating the drones or why,
but they are investigating, they say.
Well, for more on the mystery here is CNN's Samuel Burke.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The plot certainly thickens. These drones have been flying over not just sites that are recognizable to
tourists, but also over some of the most important democratic institutions in all of France and Europe.
I want to remind our viewers that on Monday these five drones were reportedly spotted over the Eiffel Tower, the Bastille, Place de la
Concorde, which is a large public square that many tourists will remember, (inaudible) it's a museum there in Paris as well as the U.S. embassy.
And then again on Tuesday night, beginning 11:00 p.m. on until just about 2:00 a.m. Wednesday, authorities say they spotted drones over the
Latin quarter, the French national assembly, which is similar to the U.S. congress, Gare de L'Est, which is a large rail station as well as over two
large Paris metro stations.
Paris authorities tell us they've opened an investigation, which is being handled by the Parisian police as well as the French prosecutor's
office. It's not being handled by the French military.
But of course, Paris is a city that is still reeling from those two terrorist attacks at Charlie Hebdo and the Jewish supermarket. So this
very much has the Parisian people on edge, though drone analysts say that in all likelihood this is some type of drone enthusiast or a group of drone
enthusiasts flying these drones over the Parisian skies at night.
They say the biggest concern is in all likelihood the drone could crash and that's really what could cause the biggest problem -- into a
plane, into a small plane, into the streets or even into a person.
Samuel Burke, CNN, London.
Taking you back to one of our top stories. Now the expansion of ISIS into Libya perhaps the greatest irony of the modern jihadi movement is the
fact that its roots, in part, stem from the United States' arming of Islamists. At the height of the Cold War, the Soviet occupation of
Afghanistan was seen by Washington as a greater threat to global stability than radical Islam.
But out of that conflict al Qaeda, the Taliban and perhaps the most infamous extremist of all Osama bin Laden came to the fore.
The Afghan war of the 80s helped spawn a movement of fundamentalist Muslims fighting for their faith wherever they believed it was under
Well, during the Balkans war of 1992 to 1995 when a Serbian onslaught led to ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia, in the uprising against
Russia and Chechnya from the mid-90s to the present day, after the U.S.-led invasion in Iraq in 2003 than in 2011. And then in the power vacuum
created by the Syrian civil war, which began that same year.
Well, my next guest has firsthand experience, having left school in Saudi Arabia to join the war as a jihadist fighter in Bosnia.
Aimen Dean later infiltrated al Qaeda where he began working as an undercover agent for the UK government.
He now heads up a risk consultancy in Dubai, but his connections to individuals fighting jihad remains strong.
Thank you for joining us.
You profess to have become disillusioned with many of those that you fought alongside as a jihadist as they pursued a path of terror, and
despite working undercover you'd -- I know -- retain a wide network of contacts, not least with ISIS.
Without divulging your sources, what do you understand their strategy to be now and going forward?
AIMEN DEAN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, FIVE DIMENSIONS: Their strategy is to concentrate on the Middle East itself and the Muslim world.
Generally, al Qaeda in the past used to have a fragmented presence all across the Muslim world in order to create this kind of jihad inspiring
regions, but ISIS rejected that ideology. They wanted to have a presence, solid, concise, concentrated and they wanted to be in the failed states of
the Middle East -- Iraq, Syria and now Libya.
ANDERSON: Let's talk about Libya, because I know that regular viewers of this program will certainly know about the expansion of the ISIS brand
in Libya. What our viewers are looking at is recent propaganda video they're about to hear of militants waving flags and generally making their
presence felt in the north of the country.
The ambassador here in the UAE on this show tonight describing Libya has having become the ATM, the gas station, the airport for ISIS.
You believe that many have actually underestimated the group's ambitions in North Africa and you've learned that a very high ranking
figure recently arrived in Libya to rally the troops. What can you tell us about this man?
DEAN: This man, his name is Turk bin Ali (ph). And he is also known to his supporters as Abu Safian al Sulaimi (ph). He's Bahraini, 30 years
old. He was a cleric. And he migrated to the Islamic State about two-and- a-half years ago from Bahrain.
He was known in Bahrain as a radical Tahriri (ph), in other words someone who is engaged in excommunicating others out of the faith. And in
fact eight, nine years ago he was here in the UAE studying Sharia in Dubai before he was expelled by the UAE authorities for his extreme views.
So even then when he was only 20, 21, he was known to the authorities in this country and beyond for having extremism views.
ANDERSON: You have said that you believe that ISIS has great expansion plans in Libya. Tell us why you believe that?
DEAN: Libya is a failed state, but it has several ingredients that makes ISIS, you know, extremely keen in having a presence there. It has
huge amount of weaponry out of the control of the government there. It has human pool of recruits, humongous one. And at the same time, it is -- it
has huge amount of coastline, enable it basically to receive money, equipment, to smuggle weapons out of and into -- depending on the weaponry
kind that some weapons are needed in Libya more, so they send it into it, some weapons are more needed in Syria, so they send it from Libya into
Syria through Turkey.
So, through that you see a lot of (inaudible) keen interest by ISIS in the Libya.
ANDERSON: You are in contact, you tell us, with members fighting in the name of the Islamic State. Just explain to me very briefly their --
what they're thinking?
DEAN: They're thinking is that they are establishing an Islamic State and therefore the caliphate must cover the entire Muslim world. Libya is
part of that. It's a failed state, you know, with important ingredients. So therefore they must be there in order to connect the dots.
ANDERSON: The line between radical and moderate often comes down to interpretation, of course, doesn't it Aimen. I want to talk to you about a
book that you've commented extensively on, which is now widely available on jihadi websites. It's called, I believe, the Management of Savagery. And
you note that it was distributed among al Qaeda fighters in part to warn away from psychotic tendencies. You say you've seen this book around. It
was around perhaps in your day.
But then you say this, "they were hoping the book would guide lone wolves away from joining a concentrated force like ISIS. Instead, it
created a favorable environment for the likes of ISIS to grow."
How did it do that?
DEAN: The book, unfortunately, was supposed to go out in order to pull back members of al Qaeda from having their psychotic tendencies
liberated by the extreme violence they are actually implementing in Iraq.
It was more or less trying to limit the damage that Zarqawi was created -- has created in Iraq between 2003 and 2006. The images...
ANDERSON: The forefather of ISIS, of course.
The images of the beheadings and the beheadings that actually are contrary to Islamic practices, you know, in terms of -- instead of like in
a swift strike to the back of the head, you have something that -- similar to the slaughter of animals.
Therefore, they were trying to pull back the members of al Qaeda and the global jihadist movement in general from being savage monsters that
will drive away support among the ordinary Muslim public.
ANDERSON: Ironically, completely opposite.
DEAN: Completely opposite. Absolutely. It did the opposite, because the author, who I believe was Khalila Khaqima (ph), one of the members of
al Qaeda who used to be in the (inaudible) Islamiya of Egypt died in 2009, but in 2006 he wrote this book in order to warn that savagery is around.
And we cannot get rid of it. But we can manage it. However, I think it he was alive today, he will write the second edition calling it the
Mismanagement of Savagery.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. You've heard about the temperature related teething problems that Qatar has experienced when
it comes to the seasonal staging of the World Cup. Just ahead, we're going to tell you why the heat is still on the Qatari authorities over worker's
rights ahead of what is a very big event in 2022. And they're not the only ones coming under fire from the secretary-general of Amnesty International
who talks to me up next.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Oscars, Becky, are done and dusted. Now the attention turns to the Brits. The nominees and the stars walking this red
carpet shortly right here next on Connect the World.
ANDERSON: Welcome back.
Gulf nations are often criticized for human rights abuses when it comes to migrant workers. Case in point, conditions in Qatar, which came
to the forefront after the state won the right to host the 2022 World Cup. Thousands of foreign workers are helping build World Cup stadiums.
Well, earlier today FIFA secretary-general Jerome Valke said he was, and I quote, "very happy with the steps that Qatar has taken to improve
conditions." But he says more still needs to be done.
Well, Amnesty International has been consistently critical of Qatar's human rights record. But what's their stance today given that the country
is in the news again over the proposal to change the time of year for its World Cup?
Well, for more I'm joined by Salil Shatty in London. He's the secretary-general of Amnesty International.
Seven years out, sir, the FIFA secretary-general today says he is very happy with the steps taken by Qatar to protect the hundreds of thousands of
migrant workers employed on these sites. This is a year around job, oftentimes in the searing heat. Do you agree with FIFA that Qatar is doing
SALIL SHATTY, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: Well, we were a little bit surprised when hearing that statement. And first of all, FIFA is very
obsessed with the question as to exactly when the games are going to be held, how hot it is going to be, et cetera, but on the issue of the rights
of migrant workers I personally was in Qatar 18 months ago. I should start by saying that on the positive side the Qatari government, including the
prime minister, who I met, are very open to criticism and are listening to our concerns. But in practical terms, there's lots of good promises and
intentions, but way little has happened.
I think one concrete action they've taken recently is that they have introduced electronic payment systems, or at least talked about introducing
it, which means that delays of payments and non-payments are taken care of.
But the underlying problem, which is that (inaudible) or the sponsorship system, which is what ends up creating false labor conditions,
confiscation of passports, people not being able to leave the country, the exit permit issue. None of those issues have been addressed,
ANDERSON: We've reached out to the Qatari ministry of labor. They haven't been available to comment. Back in November, sir, Qatar did
acknowledge there have been problems. And in a statement then it said "as in every country in the world change doesn't happen overnight. Significant
changes such as these take more time to implement than some may wish, but we intend to affect meaningful and lasting change for the benefit of all of
those who live and work in Qatar."
They went on to say, that there would be legislation and it would include legislation on the kafala (ph) system. So I'm assuming that
tonight your message is that you want to hear more on that.
SHATTY: Well, it's two years since the issue has been raised by Amnesty International, by The Guardian newspaper. And they commissioned
their own report by Daily Piper (ph), which is an independent consulting firm, legal firm, which made its recommendations middle of last year.
So, in practice there's still big issues of living and working conditions have not improved. If you look at some of the housing
conditions. And the working conditions have include striking in the main World Cup stadiums, construction sites. But the majority of the cases we
still have a long way to go. The workers still don't have access to justice. If they want to take up a case in a legal way, if they've been
Unfortunately, you know, there's still a way long way to go.
So lots of good intentions and promises, but I think the report that Amnesty brought out in November last year was no extra time, which is a
football analogy. I think we waited long enough. We need real action now.
ANDERSON: You accept, though, that conditions are improving, briefly?
SHATTY: Well, I think, you know, they have introduced some more labor inspectors and they've now just announced the issue of the electronic
payments. So one or two small steps. But the real big issues are still left under resolved.
And if I may, Becky, and this is a bit linked also into Amnesty's annual report, which has published today, because Qatar of course is within
the context of the Middle East. And we've seen a massive crisis in the Middle East, which has affected the entire world. So one of the points
that we have made today is that Qatar and the Gulf countries need to also take a much greater responsibility of what's happening in Syria, for
example. Europe has hardly taken any refugees, but neither have the Gulf countries have hardly taken any Syrian refugees. And the international
community has been mute spectators to what's happening in Syria. The big crisis from Syria to Ukraine to Nigeria to Gaza.
So we really call for the UN security council also to really rethink the way in which they're working. The permanent members to rethink the use
of the veto. We're calling for a voluntary renunciation of the veto, because the veto -- the use of the veto by Russia and the United States we
feel has really stopped the security council from doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is to create peace and security in the world.
In fact, they're doing quite the opposite. So, we feel a renunciation of the veto, high time it happens.
ANDERSON: Yeah, you've said in situation of genocide and other mass atrocities you single out those five permanent members of the security
council as, and I quote, consistently abusing their veto rights to, and I quote, "promote their political self-interest or geographical interest
above the interest of protecting civilians."
Those are very, very harsh words today.
SHATTY: But they're just really harsh facts, because we look at what happened in Syria. Three years ago Amnesty International called for the
Assad regime, which at that point was only facing peaceful protests, that they should have been referred to the International Criminal Court. That
was vetoed consistently by Russia and China.
Look at what happened in Gaza last year, 51 days of conflict, 2,000 people killed, mostly Palestinians, mostly civilians, including 500
children. And not a single security council resolution because the U.S. would have vetoed it.
So, we are saying that when there's mass atrocities, thousands, tens of thousands, millions of people affected, then these powerful countries
should desist from using the vetoes, not protect themselves, but protect civilians.
ANDERSON: With that, sir, we're going to leave it there. We thank you very much indeed for joining us with your time tonight on CNN.
Live from Abu Dhabi, this is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson, get ready for a star-studded affair. We're live in London ahead of what are
tonight's Brit awards.
And capturing the power of nature right here in the UAE. We meet up with a very flashy photographer. We're taking a very short break. Back
ANDERSON: At 52 minutes past the hour here in the UAE, you're watching Connect the World with me Becky Anderson. Welcome back.
We are just hours away from this year's Brit Awards, the British music industry's annual music honors. Some of the biggest names in pop tunes are
on the guest list including Madonna, Taylor Swift and Sam Smith who has already won four Grammy Awards earlier this month and he's hoping to
continue his winning streak on home soil.
We'll CNN's Isa Soares has been hanging on on the red carpet at London's O2 Arena joining us now. What's the buzz?
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Becky.
(inaudible) no celebrities, no nominees as of yet, but I've been told arriving shortly. This is what I've been hearing. But let me give you an
idea of what to expect today.
I've heard 16,000 bottles of champagne will be drunk today, more than 10,000 bottles of beer and then 4,000 bottles of wine, so that will be
quite a night.
In terms of the nominees, that is what you want to know. It really is a battle between Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith, like you were saying.
It's a bit of a bromance expected here, although Sam has most nomination, five, Ed Sheeran has four. Both are very close friends. And
already what we've heard is one saying, oh, he really deserved to win. Oh no, he does.
So it'll be interested to see how they both fare on the night tonight.
Also up for grabs of four is George Ezra, who has got this smokey voice. He's also expected to win.
But in terms of Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran, they are actually up for Best British Solo Male, Best British Single, Album of the Year, Video of
In terms of performances, I heard you mention Madonna, Madge, some rumor is expected that she's expected to open the show. It's the first
time she's here in some 20 years, Becky. So what a performance. In fact, if it's anything like the Grammys, if you remember, that kind of demonic
kind of satanic performance, well, it will be quite a show.
Taylor Swift also here. Fans outside going crazy for her and for Ed Sheeran, Becky.
All right, Isa is on the red carpet for you. Good luck.
Now in tonight's parting shots, we take a look at how bad weather can sometimes lead to good pictures. Here it's been particularly chilly of
late here and the weather has been a little bit inclement. Take a look at these stunning lightning strikes from the UAE.
MAXIM SHATROV, PHOTOGRAPHER: My name is Max. I'm a freelance photographer from Kazakhstan.
The last time when I catch the lightning it was like in the Burj Khalifa. And already I have an idea to go there like I was planning either
it's going to start raining, is it going to starting to be the lightning?
I was sitting next to the electricity poles and one the lightning hit really, really nearby.
I chose lightning shot, I did was in (inaudible). It was starting to rain and I heard the thunder and I'd seen the lightning and I decide to go
to (inaudible) and take some photos there.
The next time, when I catch the lightning it was (inaudible) hotel. It was on the balcony. It was raining. And in my -- in front of me, there
was like (inaudible) with the nice beach.
Taking pictures of the lightning it's -- I feel like kind of stressed. I need to catch the right moment.
ANDERSON: Well, he's certainly has caught the right moments, hasn't he. What amazing stuff. Truly flashy photography.
Do you brave the elements to get the perfect shot? Well, I hope you're safe when you do, but if you do send us your pictures. The team at
Connect the World always wants to hear from you watch your videos on Facebook.com/CNNconnect. You can send us your reactions to some of those.
Tweet me @BeckyCNN. The team is @CNNconnect. And we're on Instagram, of course, as well, just search for BeckyCNN.
Well, that was Connect the World. Thank you for watching.