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Jihadi John Identified; Three Arrested in ISIS Plot; DHS Funding; Netanyahu to Speak

Aired February 26, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin today.

Now, U.S. officials confirmed the identity of "Jihadi John." He is that masked man seen in all those ISIS videos beside the hostages who were later beheaded. He is from London we know. And two U.S. officials plus two congressional sources tell us his name is Mohammed Emwazi, born in Kuwait, raised in a middle class family. In fact, this is his former home. And somehow Emwazi is believed to have become the mouth piece of this terrorist organization known for death, rape, kidnapping and slavery, ISIS. All along authorities suspected he was from the west because of his voice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED EMWAZI, a.k.a. JIHADI JOHN: Any attempt by you, Obama, to deny the Muslims their rights of living in safety under the Islamic caliphate will result in the bloodshed of your people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Before he became this alleged terrorist, Emwazi reportedly claimed he was treated like one multiple times according to a British activist. A director from the advocacy organization CAGE said Emwazi was wrongfully questioned and detained repeatedly since 2009. This is Qureshi. He says he is not certain that this man in the ISIS videos is Emwazi, but he says the man he knew was kind and gentle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASIM QURESHI, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, CAGE: While I think that there are some striking similarities between the young man that I remember and the person we see on the video, I can't be 100 percent certain. He's got a hood on. Come on, guys. You know, the guy's got a hood on his head.

It's quite hard because, you know, he's such a (INAUDIBLE) he was such a beautiful young man. Really. You know, it's hard to imagine the trajectory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: With me now are Atika Shubert in the neighborhood where Emwazi once lived in west London. But first, CNN's Nic Robertson.

And, Nic, what does CAGE, that group we just talked about, say happened to Emwazi before he apparently became radicalized?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're saying that his sort of trajectory, if you will, matches that of hundreds of other young people they say that come to them, say that they're being harassed by the British intelligence services. Emwazi, they say, took a flight to Tanzania. That this was a graduation gift from his parents. That he was going there on safari. But he was turned around and sent back to the U.K., questioned by MI5, questioned by other counterterrorism officials.

Then, in 2009, and again repeatedly, even though they - even though he tried to take up a computing job using his computing degree that he'd obtained from university in London, in Kuwait, that he was unable to go to Kuwait to take up that computing job. So the narrative that CAGE is portraying here is one that really - that essentially the British intelligence services and counterterrorism officials here really pushed him along this path to jihadism, if you will.

However, what they don't answer, and they have this detailed information about Emwazi, they don't really explain how he came to be under the radar and attention, if you will, of the British intelligence services in 2009 such that they would essentially have him turned around when he got to Tanzania and question him multiple times when he comes back. So what we're hearing from them is something that is explaining part of his life and they're saying is a broader narrative that happens to young men in this country.

This is an organization that, in the past, has represented former Guantanamo Bay detainees. This is an organization that championed the cause of Anwar al Awlaki, the radical Yemini cleric who inspired not only the 2005 bombings here in London, but the Fort Hood shootings in the United States, 2010, the underpants bomber who tried to blow up a plane in 2008. They championed the cause of al Awlaki. So this is, if you will, where this particular organization, CAGE, is coming from on this issue to a degree.

Ana.

CABRERA: Yet how does this organization, CAGE, know so much about Emwazi?

ROBERTSON: Well, Emwazi has come to them on multiple occasions, they say, through e-mails, through direct personal contact, to tell them and to put on the record with them his frustrations with the British intelligence services, the fact that he's trying to sort out his life, the fact that he is trying to, you know, get out from under this cloud of suspicion that he says that he's under, even to the extent through his father's direction, they say, of trying to change his name so he could go back to Kuwait to, you know, to take up this computing job again.

So, you know, this is why CAGE said that they know so much about him. But it leaves holes in the narrative. And what they are saying is they can't understand how the man that they knew being so nice became so radical in Syria.

CABRERA: OK. And maybe Atika can help fill in some of those holes because I know you have been speaking to people in that neighborhood where he used to live. What are you learning about Emwazi there?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, he hasn't been here for a few years and most of the neighbors say, you know, they didn't know him. And the family was very quiet, kept to themselves, really didn't interact with many people. I did speak to one man, however, who said he knew Mohammed Emwazi. That he described him as a very polite young man. And he didn't have any problems with him. He said he only said hello to him once or twice in the neighborhood. But it seems he very much kept to himself.

We also know that he went to school -- he went to college, actually, at Westminster University and got a degree in computer programming. And then, of course, we know the history from CAGE, that he went to go live or tried to start a new life in Kuwait before eventually leaving Britain all together in late 2012, possibly early 2013. And according to CAGE, security services actually came to them, to the family, to tell the family that their son was now in Syria.

So what we are getting at this point is a very partial picture. And it may be why initially authorities, especially here in the U.K., were very reluctant to name him officially and, in fact, have not yet confirmed that this is in fact the man behind the mask of "Jihadi John."

CABRERA: All right. Nic Robertson, Atika Shubert, thanks to both of you.

Now back in the U.S., three guys from Brooklyn apparently connected with ISIS' powerful messaging machine and they are now accused of planning terror attacks here at home and abroad in the terror group's name. All three came to the U.S. legally, although one overstayed his welcome.

And I want to show you the alleged ring leader of this group. This man, Abror Habibov. Now, we've learned he ran kiosks at malls along the East Coast. He sold kitchen stuff, repaired cell phones. And in his spare time, the FBI says, he organized and financed an operation to commit terror acts.

We know the alleged ring leader attended college for a while and he worked with two younger men. Their alleged plans included assassinating President Obama, hijacking a plane. The 19-year-old, who was arrested at JFK Airport yesterday, apparently hit a travel snag along the way as he tried to carry out his plan. He couldn't convince his own mother to give him his passport. But he still found a way around that.

Now the other guy, 24 years old, made some bold online threats about shooting the president. And that's how authorities really got interested in this trio. Joining me now to discuss more, Reuters investigative reporter David Rohde, who was kidnapped by Taliban in 2008, managed to escape from captivity in Pakistan. Also here with us, Karen Greenberg, the director of the National Security Center at Fordham University Law School.

Karen, I want to start with you. Do these three New Yorkers now, after what we've learned about them, fit the typical mold or buck the mold of ISIS recruits?

KAREN GREENBERG, TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, first of all, I just want to say that, in terms of their plots, you know, you said that they plotted to do stuff. That's -- we're reading a criminal complaint. So we don't know that much about what they plotted to do. But we do know something about them and their online social media activity and their interactions with the FBI.

The typical ISIS recruit that we've seen, these foreign firefighters that want to go abroad, are young, like these men are young, are radicalized in a way that's more fanciful than other ones. In other words, these plots that you mentioned were bordered on ridiculous. They were gone to hijack a plane and take it to Syria. They were going to get a -- join the military to get a gun and - I mean they -- they really are not something with a lot of substance and that we know of with a lot of planning behind them. Which is also the case with a lot of these ISIS cases. These are younger individuals who want to go to the caliphate. The thing that ISIS is offering, different than al Qaeda when they reach out through the social media is a place. Come join us in Syria. We will make a home for you as -

CABRERA: There's a physical location.

GREENBERG: A physical location. That's exactly right. And so that is what the ISIS sort of slogan is, come join us. And it could be for fighting. In many cases, in this case, that seems to be the narrative that they were attracted to. But it could also be for other things that we've seen in other cases, whether it's nursing or running a household or being part of a family. And so it's very much tied to this idea of the caliphate, which was something that bin Laden talked about a great deal in the early years.

CABRERA: What's your take, David? I mean how much of this is just grandiose talk with these three young people, although one is 30 years old, so been an adult for a while, technically speaking, or were these actionable threats they were making?

DAVID ROHDE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, REUTERS: They did make these statements online. But, again, there's no evidence that I know of that they had weapons or explosives or could actually carry out, you know, these plots, as Karen talked about. It's disturbing that they bought into this whole fantasy of the caliphate. I mean that's what's appealing to people. We've seen this throughout history, you know, the -- David Koresh had his followers that believed, you know, there was going to be -- the apocalypse would come and they would go to heaven. Another version would be the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia that absolutely brutally killed all intellectual people with glasses to make this perfect, you know, communist society. And it's scary that some people are being attracted to it. But these two, it seems, were very young and these plots were not very advanced. As you said, one of them couldn't get his passport from his mother. CABRERA: I think one thing I'm trying to understand is, you know, at

what point do authorities move in? At what point do they take action? Because now we know that there are investigations in all 50 states. In fact, there was a guy who just today in Minnesota, a teenager, who pleaded guilty to providing conspiracy to support ISIS. Very similar to the same charges these three are facing. So it seems like there would be risk to wait several months before moving in.

GREENBERG: You know, part of it has to do with what the threat is. The threat that law enforcement's always been worried about is that they'll go train and come back. So there are two different issues. You know, one is violence abroad, committing violence abroad, going to Syria, and another one is, what's the threat here? And for a long time law enforcement has been worried about getting trained, returning here, being further radicalized. But what we've seen with a lot of these individuals, and I don't know about this particular case, but the Minnesota cases, et cetera, they don't want to come back. They are talking about migrating. They are talking about leaving this country to join -- they're serious to join the caliphate. And so it becomes a different level of understanding. What we're stopping them from is feeding this foreign fighter phenomenon that's, you know, to the tunes of tens of thousands fueled ISIS, which is also a threat. But it's a different thing than I think you might have otherwise associated with how we think of the dangers prior to this.

CABRERA: We keep hearing you have to stop their recruiting abilities, stop the propaganda. You have to counter the messages that's coming out there. I wonder if, you know, when authorities are in the process of doing these investigations, perhaps, David, you can shed some light on this based on your reporting, your connections, you know, are they trying to at times contact these individuals to try to redirect them, to try to maybe change their minds about the direction they're going into radicalization?

ROHDE: They did visit one of these suspects. He - I mean they were watching these websites. One of them posted a, you know, an allegiance, you know, or praised the Islamic state and he was interviewed and then they sat back. And I think they let this go on because, again, they hadn't committed a crime. Sort of saying these things is not a crime. They have to, you know, either try to travel to Syria or, you know, acquire weapons or explosives. So that's why they let it play out. And he was grabbed as he sort of walked onto the airplane because that's - that's needed for the prosecution. It has to show that he went through customs and was intent on actually going there.

CABRERA: He was taking action.

ROHDE: And I - I think they let it go on for so long because they want to see who he's associated with. I think it led them, you know, to the I guess ring leader, this gentleman in Florida. So I, you know, there's no question in my mind that they waited too long in this case.

CABRERA: All right, David Rohde and Karen Greenberg, thank you both for being here. We have to - we have to move ahead. Also coming up, with ISIS and the threat of terrorism that's front and

center right now, the other big story we continue to follow is the funding for the Department of Homeland Security, which is set to expire tomorrow at midnight. And Speaker John Boehner, not exactly answering the tough questions today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: Ands and buts were candy and nuts every day would be Christmas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to put it on the floor kill? You going to kill it? You going to vote on it? Have you even had this discussion?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, Dana Bash will be joining me with the very latest. She was inside that room.

Also, are U.S. and Israeli ties unraveling just days before Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu addresses Congress in Washington? The Obama administration calling the politically charged visit "destructive." Wolf Blitzer joins us for some insight on this.

Plus, is it the smoking gun? Could a piece of chewed bubble gum be the critical piece of evidence that sends former NFL star Aaron Hernandez to prison? We'll have a live report from the courthouse. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: If we fail to fund this department, it has consequences well beyond what's happening in Congress right now. Well beyond the political debate. And so I've endeavored to be factual. And I think I have been.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: That was Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson just moments ago. As we know, lawmakers are down to the wire before the funding for the Department of Homeland Security runs out. The holdup? President Obama's executive orders on immigration. What's at stake here? Tens of thousands of government workers could be furloughed and/or may have to work without pay. Now, President Obama, last night, lashed out at Republican lawmakers who he accused of holding DHS funding hostage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And what we said to Republicans is, instead of trying to hold hostage funding for the Department of Homeland Security, which is so important for our national security, fund that and let's get on with actually passing comprehensive immigration reform. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: The speaker today did have a comeback. His comments today during what became a very animated press briefing. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I just think it's outrageous that Senate Democrats are using Homeland Security funding for blackmail to protect the actions of the president, where the president himself said he didn't have the authority to do this. If ands and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeh Johnson said -

BOEHNER: We passed a bill to fund the Department of Homeland Security six weeks ago. Six weeks ago. It's time for the Senate to act.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Jeh Johnson said (INAUDIBLE). Is he wrong?

BOEHNER: We passed a bill to fund the department six weeks ago. I mean how many times do I have to say it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mitch McConnell has said exactly what he's going to do. You know exactly what you're going to get. It's going to be a clean DHS funding bill. You going to put it on the floor? You going to kill it? You going to let them vote on it? Have you even had this discussion?

BOEHNER: When we make decisions, I'll let you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Really just dodging all those questions. Let's get to CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash on Capitol Hill. I know you were there, witnessed all that, heard all of it. What does Boehner's demeanor tell you about the pressure he may be feeling right now?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That was an artful dodge. And I should say that he wasn't kissing as a term of endearment. He was basically saying, kiss my you know what because that was the umteenth (ph) time that those of us in the room there were trying to get him to say what exactly they're going to do because the deadline is tomorrow night. This is not something that, you know, anybody should take lightly. But, you know, still, he sort of was trying to be playful in kind of a classic, vintage Boehner sort of way.

The upshot of what's going on here now is the Senate is likely to vote on a clean bill, just like Democrats want, to fully fund the Department of Homeland Security through the end of the fiscal year. That will probably happen later this afternoon. Then it really will be hard for John Boehner to avoid the questions that we were asking about what the House is going to do. But they simply aren't saying. I think, at this point, a likely scenario is that they will kick the

can down the road again, try to pass a bill to keep the department open, keep the money flowing while they try to sort of thread the needle. At issue here still is, and you just heard a little bit of it from John Boehner, pressure from conservatives on leaders in their party not to give in and to keep trying to stop the president on his executive action to allow millions of undocumented immigrants to stay in this country.

In the Senate, Mitch McConnell, the new Republican majority leader, he's already given in. He realizes he doesn't have the votes and he just wants to move on to a fight that they think that they can win in the House. We've seen this movie before, for many years now, that John Boehner has a different dynamic and he's got to kind of go through the motions and allow his rank and file who don't want him to give up to see that their -- kind of their backs are up against the wall and they don't have any options. But I'm guessing we're going to be here talk about this close to midnight tomorrow night, Ana.

CABRERA: And what is the potential backlash to Boehner? The damned if you do, damned if you don't?

BASH: Yes. I mean that's a good way to put it. He is. He's kind of in a no win situation, which, again, we've seen so many times because he -- and I actually posed this question to him today. He knows how to legislate. He knows how to compromise. He knows how to get things done. And by him saying over and over again the House passed a bill, well, he also knows basic civics, he is the speak of the House. House passes a bill, the Senate passes a bill, they have to come together before it goes to the president's desk.

So he is in a very tough position. But he also probably knows that when the entire government shutdown last year, not only was there no political consequence for Republicans, they took over the House -- they have a bigger majority in the House and they took over the Senate. So there's no way that is not in the backs of their mind even as they do have pressure to actually show they can govern.

CABRERA: Right. Right. Dana Bash, thank you for watching this for us.

Up next, five days away from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's address to Congress. He was invited by the speaker. And then, today, the Obama administration just announced top officials will attend a meeting of AIPAC. Now, is this perhaps an olive branch amid these frosty relations? We'll discuss more on the dynamics.

Plus, the suspected killer known at "Jihadi John" now identified as a Londoner. Mohammed Emwazi is the name. What allegedly drove this man, a computer science major, to join the terror group ISIS?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: The war of words continues ahead of next week's visit to Washington by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He's expected to address the joint session of Congress regarding the potential nuclear deal with Iran. Now, Secretary of State John Kerry has questioned Netanyahu's judgment on Iran and even slammed the prime minister's record on the war in Iraq, saying he was, quote, "profoundly forward leaning and outspoken about the importance of invading Iraq under George W. Bush. And we all know what happened with that decision."

Meanwhile, National Security Adviser Susan Rice also weighing in on Netanyahu's trip during an interview with Charlie Rose. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What has happened over the last several weeks, by virtue of the invitation that was issued -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the speaker of the House.

RICE: By the speaker and the acceptance of it by Prime Minister Netanyahu on -- two weeks in advance of his election, is that on both sides there has now been injected a degree of partisanship, which is not only unfortunate, I think it's -- it's destructive of the fabric of the relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And we are now learning that Rice, along with U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, have been selected by the Obama administration to address the AIPAC conference. And, of course, AIPAC stands for American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

I want to bring in CNN host of "The Situation Room," Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, could this decision to send Rice, that we learned of today, be perhaps in response, trying to smooth things over after those strong comments she made?

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": Ana, we've got a technical problem. I can't hear you at all right now. So we're going to have to queue this up once again. I can see you in the return, but I'm not hearing anything you're saying, so let's fix it and then we'll come back.

CABRERA: All right, Wolf Blitzer, we will talk to you because you have - you have great insight into the Israel-U.S. relation.

BLITZER: I hear you, Ana.

CABRERA: We got you back. Well, that was quick.

BLITZER: Yes.

CABRERA: What I wanted to talk to you about, did you have a chance to hear Susan Rice's sound?

BLITZER: Yes. Yes, I did.

CABRERA: I know you've been following this story closely. We now know she's going to be going to AIPAC as a representative of the U.S. administration.