Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Physicians Drugging Patients for Sex; Women Who`ve Had It With Misbehaving Men
Aired February 26, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" PROGRAM: Tonight, doctors who crossed the line. Physicians allegedly drugging patients, having sex
with them and disguising these crimes as some sort of treatment. Plus, car smashing, acid throwing women who had it with misbehaving men.
But, let us get started with "WTF." An hour of the most shocking stories of the night, stories dominating social media. First up, a gynecologist in
Cincinnati is stripped of his medical license for physically -- this is what he did. He instructed and showed his female patients where their G
spot is and then had sex with them and then more. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Dr. Froehlich an OB/GYN had his license revoked after admitting to inappropriate sexual contact with two different
patients.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KURT FROELICH, OB/GYN WHO HAD INAPPROPRIATE SEXUAL CONTACT WITH HIS PATIENTS: They were lapses in judgment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Both patients who were his employees asked him if he could show them how to find their G spot. He initially showed
them on a diagram. Then he went further and physically showed them. These encounters eventually led to sex in the hospital.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROELICH: They were a direct, you know, insult and offense to my wife and my family.
(ENDV IDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And, that is not all. Back in 2013, he was convicted of assault after groping a female employee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FROELICH: I still desperately want to be a doctor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us Loni Coombs, former prosecutor, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies Parents Tell." Wendy Walsh, Clinical Psychologist,
author of "30-Day Love Detox" and Karamo Brown, social worker. So, for an OB/GYN to physically -- there is so many layers to this, I do not even know
where to start.
The fact is, I heard these were employees and patients. That is already a dual relationship not OK. And, then going to their bodies and showing them
something as intimate as this is ridiculous. Loni, he says he should not lose his license. What do you think?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Dr. Drew, I have to tell you I am little conflicted on this story.
PINSKY: Loni -- Loni. Honey.
COOMBS: In my surprise --
PINSKY: Loni. Loni. Loni.
COOMBS: I know. I know.
PINSKY: No. No. Put both of us up there. Loni, I got to talk to you.
COOMBS: Go ahead.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: How can you be physically conflicted? I mean if -- Let me give you an out.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: If he is a sex addict or alcoholic, drug addict behaving badly, and he wants to regain his ability to practice medicine, two years of
treatment without practicing, maybe then. What about that?
COOMBS: Well, yes. Here is the thing, they took his license away forever. I mean it is permanently gone. It was not a year suspension or two-year
suspension. That is my concern. I think he definitely needs to be suspended, but the length of time.
And, I will tell you, I think the assault against the girls, the young girls -- the sexual assault where he got a criminal conviction, that is
below -- I mean that is crossing the line clearly. But, these two incidents with the G spot.
I got to tell you -- I guess I have a few questions about it, Dr. Drew. I mean if a woman wants to know where the G spot is, I get showing on a
diagram. But if they want more explanation, who are they supposed to go to?
PINSKY: They go to their Gynecologist. They got to their physician. But, Wendy, back me up on this. You are not going to stimulate the spot. You
are not going to become explicit with it. You might instruct the patient how to do it on their own at home perhaps, but you are not going to do it
this. And, you certainly not going to have sex with your patients.
WENDY WALSH, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I mean he could certainly have used some kind of gentle probe to just sort of point it out and then not
stimulate it. Because once they are stimulated, then they are not making clear decisions, right? They are aroused at this point and of course they
want to have sex with him if he initiate it.
PINSKY: No. Wendy, stop it. No. No.
WALSH: But, Dr. Drew, I have something else to say.
PINSKY: What?
WALSH: You know, one time I had a breast reduction surgery when I was like 25. And, when I came out, the doctor touched my nipples and said, "you
still enough sensitivity there?" Because he wanted to make sure the nerves are all reattached.
PINSKY: Yes, that is a surgical maneuver.
WALSH: No, no. He said, "Are there enough nerves. Tell me if you got sensitivity." So, why would not -- I mean you go to your doctor for these
things. I mean yes, he should not have had sex with them. That is for sure.
PINSKY: OK. Thank you. Thank you. Loni, one more comment? Karamo, I will get you in here eventually. Hold on. What is that, Loni?
COOMBS: I agree he should not have had sex with them either. I am not condoning that in any way. However, it appears -- and I am not certain.
But, it appears that at some point that was somewhat consensual, because it does not sound like the victims in those two instances ever complained
about it.
PINSKY: All right. OK. listen. Loni --
COOMBS: I know he is a doctor. I know he is a doctor. And, he is violating his position of authority. I agree with that.
PINSKY: Yes.
COOMBS: However, a permanent suspension --
PINSKY: And their employer also, which is weird.
COOMBS: Yes. Yes. I agree --
WALSH: I say go to a go to a female gynecologist if you want to know where your G spot is.
PINSKY: Thank you. Karamo, how about that? And, what about these dual relationships where they are patients and employers and describing highly
intimate sexual details? And, the whole thing is without boundary. That is the problem.
COOMBS: That is the thing.
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: It is without boundary, but immediately I thought these women have been watching too much "Gray`s Anatomy." They
want a little steamy moment under the covers.
And, so, we are thinking like we are blaming this guy, what about these women who dealt were here and said, "You know what? After you give me the
G spot, I want you to also have sex with me."
PINSKY: Karamo.
BROWN: Come on, they have to take some fault for this as well.
PINSKY: OK. I am taking my mic off. I am walking out. I am officially leaving the show.
(LAUGHING)
BROWN: No.
PINSKY: I am being punked. That is what is happening. I am being punked by my guests.
COOMBS: No.
WALSH: No.
PINSKY: It is official. You that or you guys smoked crack before you got here.
WALSH: No. We agreed he committed some crime.
PINSKY: Something happened.
WALSH: We agreed he committed some crime. But, you know, also the G spot thing, it makes sense. If I wanted to know where my G spot is I would ask
my doctor. And, I would say, "No, no touching. I want to make sure it is there."
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I am being punked. It is official. Let us review some -- Loni, stay with me on the facts here. Here is some of what this guy -- his
excuses were. He says, he was mourning the death of his mother-in-law.
WALSH: Yes.
PINSKY: That he was on a new diet, losing weight and that raises his testosterone levels. He was just diagnosed with prostate cancer. I do not
know, Loni. You know, maybe I can get a dual relationship going with Wendy.
I have prostate cancer. I would exercise a little more. She says she needs a -- she loses her mind if somebody touches her, apparently. I mean
this is not OK. This is our job to maintain the boundaries.
COOMBS: Right. That is right. And, I agree it is not OK. In fact, all of his excuses -- I do not like any of those excuses. I would not care
about any of those when you come to judging this behavior. But, I think what you said about the boundaries is key here, because it starts with --
that these were friends.
I mean he said, "We had a very friendly relationship. I worked with these women for years before they became my patients." Right there, you are
getting into a situation where then it is so much easier to slip beyond the doctor -patient relationship.
PINSKY: Well, that is right. That is why you do not when you are a physician.
COOMBS: Yes.
PINSKY: You really go to great lengths not to maintain what is called dual relationships. We do it, physician do it. We might, you know, write
somebody a friend a prescription, but to really say, "That is my patient and my employee," that is a problem. In 2013 --
WALSH: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hold on. One of his employees accused him of groping her. When she resisted, he fired her. Karamo, is that gets you at least?
BROWN: Well, that does get me. Obviously.
PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you.
BROWN: That is sexual harassment. But, I am going to stick with the two women that we are talking about that he did have sex with. And, I am not
letting these women off the hook. Come on, you said, "Let us show me my G spot. Let us have sex." You have to take fault in this. And, I do not
think that his license should be gone forever. Maybe two years, suspension, some therapy.
WALSH: And, these are employees and friends of his.
BROWN: Yes.
WALSH: It is not like they are just patients.
BROWN: Exactly.
COOMBS: They asked for him to be their doctor. I mean that right there, shows me that they were -- you know, I mean they were like, "Hey! Come,
you are going to look at me down there. I do not have a problem with that. We can work with each other everyday."
WALSH: And, Dr. Drew -- Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, Wendy.
WALSH: Do you think this is the first time a doctor has slept with his receptionist?
PINSKY: No, I do not. But, it is an interesting point. Wendy, the real reason he got himself into trouble was this issue of them having a dual
relationship with them being the employer and the patient. And, the patient -- once a patient, always a patient. That takes precedent over
everything else.
The fact that an employee says, "I want to be your patient suggests to the doctor -- a well-trained doctor that that person, my employee, has a bad
boundary. I have to maintain that boundary and refer her to somebody else."
We have just scratched the surface. This doctor did even more. Maybe my guests, whose brains have been invaded by something, I can bring them
around with all that. We will talk more about it.
And, later, an angry girlfriend pours acid on her boyfriend`s lap, so- called, because he posted a sex tape of both of them, and he does not know how it got there, online. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. FROEHLIC: They were absolute lapses in judgment. They were a direct, you know, insult and offense to my wife and my family. I still desperately
want to be a doctor. I mean I think -- I mean you can look online, I have pretty good reviews from my patients. It is not without blame. It is not
without wrong. I just do not feel like it was worthy losing my license.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Loni, Wendy and Karamo. We are talking about an OB/GYN whose license was revoked permanently after physically showing two of his
patients/employees where their G spot was and then having sex with them. \
So, Wendy, he is having sex at the hospital. He is sexually assaulting staff and then firing them when they do not respond. Married, two kids.
What do we call this guy?
WALSH: A cheater?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes, but this is a little more than a cheater, right? I mean this is somebody who has such severe consequences --
WALSH: Yes. He has impulse -- lack of impulse control. He is unable to sort of think about the consequences of his actions.
PINSKY: Right.
WALSH: He obviously puts himself -- he has different morals and ethics in different compartments. So, he compartmentalizes his behavior.
PINSKY: Right. Yes.
WALSH: But, more than anything, I think he just used really, really bad judgment. And, what happens is a slippery slope. As soon as you start to
loosen those boundaries with employees who are also friends --
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: Then it is like, what is the difference? Could it be just an affair with the other, you know, carpool mom down the street? I know her
about the same. Right?
PINSKY: That is right.
WALSH: But, this is different because it is in a professional environment.
PINSKY: And, Loni, you should jump all over this. Wendy and I agree, it is a slippery slope.
COOMBS: Well, absolutely. And, I think he really showed a huge step down that slope when he assaulted this girl, who was a just temporary employee,
a young woman. And, there was no consent here.
She was not asking for anything. She was not asking for a G spot. He called her into the office. And, they are having a conversation, then he
starts groping her breasts and shoves his hands down her pants.
She immediately goes to the police. But, before that, she tries to stop him. And, he goes, "I do not think you should work here anymore." She
goes to the police and she goes to the hospital.
WALSH: That is bad doctor.
COOMBS: So, clearly, there were no consent there whatsoever. He crossed a line. And, there is no way for him to even justify this in any way that
there was something going on here. So, I think that is more than just a lapse in judgment. That is clearly a sign of something much more serious.
PINSKY: Right. That is a sexual assault. And, Karamo, he also seems to have difficulty being empathetic. I mean he says these patients/employees
wanted him to do this. He interpreted as some sort of foreplay. I think it really -- if he is not addicted to something else, it is sex.
BROWN: You are right about that. He was thinking with the little head and not the big head. And, this was causing all of his actions to be perverted
and to do things that he knew better than not to do. I mean before in the last segment, I think what we were just saying is not to take the women off
the hook for this.
But you are right, he does have a responsibility. And, he took an oath to be ethically responsible and not to cross these boundaries. And, so, there
is a lot wrong with how he is reacting and what he did.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, there is more evidence here. Back in 2011, he was sued after he put one of his patients on a diet consisting of 500 calories
a day and giving this patient -- HCG. And, listen that is --
WALSH: A postpartum patient?
PINSKY: No. No . No. It was a diet that was around a couple of years ago where they were injecting HCG, which is a placenta hormone and putting
people on dramatically restricted -- calorie restricted diet. And, it was a fad. It was a fad.
He was not the only guy doing it. But it does suggest his judgment is not that great. There is the HCG on the screen now. And, this particular
patient ended up dying 18 days later.
WALSH: Oh my God.
PINSKY: I do not know of what. And, now he has been on that diet himself and says, you know, this is part of what is increasing his sex drive. And,
HCG can do that. It certainly can. But it is not -- this is not an approved therapy at this point.
WALSH: OK. HCG aside, Dr. Drew. I have a medical question for you, but I need a guy doctor to answer this.
PINSKY: OK.
WALSH: So, we know that men are really visually wired, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: And, we know that they have an automatic sexual response, that is called an erection, sometimes to visual stimuli.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: So, is it hard for male gynecologists to look at, you know, what all day long?
PINSKY: No. Like breast surgeons on anything else, they are doing their job. There are certain amount of professional detachment that you must
have in order to do your job properly.
And, if he was actually or anyone were actually getting aroused, that now is stepping down that slippery slope you mentioned and boundaries are
getting violated at that point. That is no longer a patient. That is an object for sexual stimulation. And, trust me, that goes away almost
immediately in training.
All right guys, next up, a doctor -- another doctor accused of getting his patients addicted. So, once again sex gets involved. He can exchange
drugs for sex.
And, later, a wife is in trouble. Cops say she smashed up her husband`s car after he cheated on her. Who is right? Which side are you on? We are
back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: He should be put away, definitely, for a while and reflect on what he has done to everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MEGAN HEALEY, WHTM-TV WEEKEND EVENING ANCHOR: This Pennsylvania physician is accused of getting a dozen of his female patients hooked on prescription
painkillers, then sexually assaulting them. Police call it leverage. Sex in exchange for refills.
Dr. Jay Cho dubbed a candy doctor by authorities was allegedly doling out the meds from his office for as long as five years. Among the charges,
rape and indecent assault. Meantime, according to this young woman, females were not his only prey. She says Dr. Cho gave her father opiates
for years until one day he overdosed and died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: When he would get too doped up, he would start screaming in the house and we would have to take him to the hospital
because they would have to pump his stomach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Welcome back. We are doing an hour on "WTF." The most shocking stories of the night dominating social media. That man, Dr. Jay Cho, 71
years old. He is listed on several websites as a rehabilitation physician. Then he calls himself -- or patients call him a pain management doctor.
Caveat emptor, everybody. Joining us Samantha Schacher, Pop Trigger on Hulu.com, Kelvin Washington, radio host and Emily Roberts, Psychotherapist.
Sam, what is it, precisely, he became charged with?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": OK. First of all, he is a disgusting doctor. OK? He is not a rehabilitating doctor. OK? Let us
just call him that. Let us call him what he is. He is currently being held on $375,000 bond, Dr. Drew.
The charges include rape, aggravated indecent assault, drug delivery by a practitioner, possession of a controlled substance, harassment. And police
are strongly urging anybody out there that has any information or have experienced something similar to please come forward.
PINSKY: Apparently, Kelvin, the employees around this guy complained that he slapped them on the butt, used unwanted sexual language. One of them --
who is a patient now, that she -- he went -- No. She went to his home where he drugged her, caused her to pass out for five hours. She says, it
took her three days to recover.
And, then when she went to the hospital -- this is awesome. So, she is out for several hours, takes her days to recover. She goes to the hospital,
because she is so out of it. Three broken ribs, head injury and genital herpes.
SCHACHER: Yes.
KELVIN WASHINGTON, RADIO HOST: You know, I am having flashbacks. My concern is this Bill Cosby`s friend? But, what is going on here?
PINSKY: Too soon. Too soon.
WASHINGTON: I am just tired of hearing about men, drugs, women.
PINSKY: Yes.
WASHINGTON: Like this is getting too common. And, it is really disturbing. I do not know at what point are not re-victimizing the
victims. But, however, we cannot continue to go back to someone who has done you wrong, continues drugging you. You know, something is wrong with
this, why are we returning to this doctor? Help me understand this.
PINSKY: Emily.
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: He was your primary -- if he was your primary care physician, right? Or he was the one giving you the pills that
you were addicted to and you need it, there is no -- of course there is a reason they are going back. They need them. They do not have really
anything else to do here. And, a lot, no one else -- no other physician would actually prescribe this stuff. They are addicted.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: But, right. But at some point, I am looking out for the victims and the fact you have to at some point take control of your own
life.
SCHACHER: But, Kelvin -- Kelvin, this doctor was specifically targeting these very vulnerable patients who already had a history of opiate
addiction or alcoholics.
ROBERTS: Right.
SCHACHER: He was looking for that, so he can use his own ability of being a drug dealer and he could use it as leverage for sex. This guy is a pig.
PINSKY: Let me challenge Emily with something. I am going to do -- just play Devil`s advocate for a second. What if, these were severely
traumatized patients, who had severe ritualized sexual abuse. They are opiate addicted and they misinterpreted what this poor caring doctor was
trying to do for them?
ROBERTS: I have a feeling that most of them were what you described, actually. And, they probably were misconstruing all these information,
which is why they continued to go back.
SCHACHER: What?
ROBERTS: No. A lot of these women were probably at some capacity -- if you are able to tolerate that amount of medication, there has got to be
something going on the back end, number 1. And, number 2, you can continue to go back --
PINSKY: Wait, Emily. I want to explain. But, Sam --
SCHACHER: What do you mean by misinterpreting? Please clarify.
PINSKY: Sam, you are right. I was making the case that maybe this did not happen. I think Emily is saying that it is precisely that person that gets
stuck with these kinds of victimizers.
SCHACHER: OK. Got it.
ROBERTS: They are the good victims. They are the perfect -- they are the good victim.
SCHACHER: Right.
ROBERTS: And, that is what really sucks is they are trusting this guy who is supposed to be a doctor when he is a really predator over here. And,
they are trusting him. And then they are getting raped and they are getting taken advantage of. And, Oh, my gosh, they are taking way, way,
way too much of this medication. It is terrible.
BROWN: So, I do not disagree with that.
ROBERTS: Allegedly. Excuse me, allegedly.
BROWN: So, what allegedly was done is terrible. Let us put a period, exclamation point next to that. That is a fact. This doctor has done
horrendous things. I am just saying, when you realize, I awoken up with broken ribs. I awoken up may be things have gone on in my woman region,
something is not right. Why do we keep going back? We have to get help.
PINSKY: OK. Two things. That is the case that Emily is making, which is -- I am an opiate addict and I will do whatever I can do to get opiates,
perhaps. That is one of the reasons. And, the other instance is more sophisticated that she is saying is that when somebody has been severely
traumatized since childhood.
They do something called a traumatic reenactment. They are attracted to and by people and circumstances that ends up doing the same thing over and
over again to them. And, they go through it. They are traumatized by it. I will never do that again, and they do it again. It is a weird quirk in
the human brain, that when we are traumatized as children, it is a living memory.
Like the memory is in our body. And, we are acting the memory all the time, even though we have no explicit memory or screen memory of it, our
very presence -- our experience in the moment is a memory of what had happened. And it is re-enacted over again.
Now, this guy`s first victim said he sexually assaulted her in his office. Then harassed her over the phone. So, there is a lot going on here.
Police say when she left the examination room, he gave her a prescription for adderall, oxycodone and venlafaxine.
The adderall and oxycodone is, you know, that is a massively -- those are two heavy duty medications. This man allegedly then told police that his
behavior with the first victim was, in fact -- well, get this, unethical and unprofessional but certainly not criminal.
SCHACHER: Gosh.
ROBERTS: It is psychological rape. He is literally raping these victims physically and emotionally. He is taking these women who are so victimized
in some capacity and using leverage, because he can write the scripts to make him do whatever he wants. It is so disgusting. It is not just
unethical, it is against the law.
PINSKY: Maybe they got it wrong, everybody. And, the website, vitals.com --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Hang on, Sam. He is listed as a top ten doctor based on patient reviews at that site.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh, Dr. Drew. He probably hired a company to write those reviews.
PINSKY: What, Sam.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, listen to me --
PINSKY: Does that happen? I do not understand. How is that possible?
SCHACHER: OK. Yes, and Dr. Drew, let me clarify. The police report, they did investigating. None of these patients knew each other. So, what?
They all somehow telepathically told the same experience? No! I am sorry. This guy is a allegedly a rapist but the allegedly part does not seem very
--
PINSKY: There is a lot of evidence sort of circulating around, is not there? Listen, you have to be very careful with pain management. It is a
nefarious world. I do not know if you saw that review where it came up on that site. That one person said, his staff are immature, not helpful.
All he is interested in is prescribing pills. This is not true pain management. Stay away. And, Emily, you and I know that is exactly the
point. That real pain management is multidisciplinary, it is about getting people off the meds.
It is about staying engaged with the people, maintaining boundaries like we were talking about in the first part of this show. This hard work as
opposed to pulling out a prescription pad and certainly sexually harassing patients is not on the list of appropriate treatment.
ROBERTS: Not at all. You have a treatment team, other people in the area that are going to be helping you. It is not just up to this doctor. It
is up to a couple people in this profession that make it work. So, if the doctor does not do that for you, get out of the office.
PINSKY: Yes. OK. So, let me just say that, please people. One thing we know for sure is opiates long term are problematic. They make pain worse
typically. So, most legitimate pain specialists are working to get you off opiates and to find the multiplicity of other interventions that are
available to help you with your pain.
There is a part of the brain called the insular cortex, down in here,that is responsible for the misery associated with pain. The part of your brain
were you experience pain up in here, the somatic pains up here, that part may not be as active as the misery piece.
The misery part of pain is what is going off like a roman candle when people have chronic pain. That is the piece that needs to be able -- that
true, true specialists in this area learn and it requires multiplicity of interventions to calm that region in the brain down.
Sometimes, it is a medication, minimally. Sometimes, it is a neurobiofeedback, neuromodulation, interpersonal therapies, group therapies
and again, not just pulling out a prescription pad and refilling large amounts of dangerous combinations of medications.
Next up, an angry wife arrested after, again, allegedly smashing up her husband`s car. He suspected of cheating on her. So, there she goes. She
goes off, allegedly.
And, later, a furious girlfriend makes sure her boyfriend can never have sex after their sex video -- of the two of them. He posted it online. He
do not know he posted it, but it ended up online. She was not very happy about it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Convinced that her husband was cheating, this woman grabbed a pistol from his car, held it over her head and pulled
the trigger. When the unloaded gun would not fire. She turned her furry on his car, knocking out the windows and both taillights.
After glass cut her hand, she switched to a hammer and bashed the car until police arrived. Officers still do not know whether her suspicions about a
mistress are true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Kelvin and Emily. This allegedly scorned woman seeks revenge, bashing her car, allegedly -- her husband`s car until her
hands bled. But, we do not know for sure if he was cheating or if she was psychotic and just becoming aggressive. But, if he was cheating, Sam, I do
not -- that is why Mark does not have a car, Sam, right?
SCHACHER: First of all, my husband has a car, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK. I am sorry.
SCHACHER: He is not riding around L.A. on a bicycle. Second of all, listen, if my husband were to ever cheat on me, I would hope to God that I
would act composed and classy.
PINSKY: Oh, please. Come on.
SCHACHER: No. Hold on. But, you did not let me finish. But, I actually do not think that in the moment that I would be able to be composed. I
think that I would go ballistic. I think that I might attack his car. Is it wrong? Yes. Is it illegal? Of course. Should you destroy someone`s
property. No. Should you have a gun? Absolutely, not. I do not have a gun near me, please.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: But, I kind of feel like this lady should have a free past if she does not have a history of, let us say, domestic violence or any other
things that were deemed against the law.
PINSKY: Kelvin, I do not know. My thing is if Sam`s husband were caught cheating, I would not want to be around Sam -- with or without a weapon.
SCHACHER: Thanks.
PINSKY: I certainly would not want him around it. And, I love the way women act out on the car too, Kelvin. The car is some sort of surrogate
for the man`s --
WASHINGTON: It is.
PINSKY: I do not know what that is.
WASHINGTON: That is the body. They want to take it out on him, but they know that they cannot. This is a gangster relationship. Why did he have -
- why was there a gun in the car, already, from the beginning?
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: So, clearly, this relationship -- this couple, they do a lot of gangster things. She took it out on that car, thankfully, it was not
him. Thankfully, we have heard stories about the man region being taken advantage of when the men have cheated. So, this has been -- she was a
little crazy, but to Sam`s point maybe a little crazy as granted to a woman who thought her man was cheating.
PINSKY: It is funny that we are all sort of willing to sort of -- not forgive her so much as excuse this and understand it. But, Emily, I am
looking at the kind of random violence that she is acting here. It is just so much drama in what she was doing.
I wonder if she was not psychotic or manic or something -- Oh my God! There was a gun, too, she was using. Do you have any suspicions? It just
seems like -- I do not know, the usual cheating -- the cheating upon wives punishment to a car. It does not look like that --
ROBERTS: Revenge. I mean it is revenge.
PINSKY: I does not usually look like that.
ROBERTS: Yes, but --
PINSKY: I do not know what it is supposed to look like, but that seems a little more than average.
ROBERTS: Yes and at the same, I do not know what she was going through.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: Yes.
ROBERTS: If she was having some very intense emotions here. I got to be honest with you, he is very lucky that she did not walk into that house and
use that gun in another way. I got to give her a little bit of credit for keeping her composure a little bit in that regard.
PINSKY: Kelvin.
ROBERTS: Think about it --
PINSKY: Hang on a second. Emily, hang on a second.
WASHINGTON: That was not keeping her composure.
PINSKY: Kelvin, I do not know about you, but there is something called cremasteric response, and look that up if you want to know what I am
talking about. I am having that experience right now. Both the female panelists on this panel are just excusing murder and rage if you are caught
cheating.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Good thing she did not show up when she had a gun -- she would have used it. What are you going to do?
WASHINGTON: That is what it sounded like, Emily.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: Excuse me. OK. First of all --
ROBERTS: Wait, wait. What happens when a guy does this? Right? What happens when a girl --
PINSKY: We talked about it every day.
SCHACHER: OK. I would excuse a man, too, if a man found out that his was cheating.
WASHINGTON: No, you would not.
SCHACHER: Yes, I would -- Excuse me, Kelvin. Yes, I would. I would totally give him a free pass. If he walked in and saw his woman cheating
on him and then she ran out and started -- or he ran out and started -- I do not know taking a baseball bat to her Beetle --
WASHINGTON: No, he is crazy, Sam.
PINSKY: He would not do that.
WASHINGTON: Violent. He is crazy.
ROBERTS: It is not right. It is not right.
PINSKY: Hold on. One at a time.
ROBERTS: It is not right.
SCHACHER: Can I just finish my thought? It is not right. I do not want people to think Sam Schacher is this crazy chick that is going to go, you
know, beat up on people`s vehicles if they cheat on her. That is not my point.
Of course, it is wrong. I would hope I would not do that. But, I understand that this woman may have had a moment, maybe temporary insanity,
could that work for her? If she does not have a history, Dr. Drew, can we give her a free pass?
PINSKY: There is such a thing. Emily, there is such a thing and that is why the courts sort of allow crimes of passion. But, still this was a
continued assault on his poor car.
WASHINGTON: She went from the gun to the hammer.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. Emily?
ROBERTS: And, at the same time, she had a punch of intense emotions happened at that time. We do not know exactly what was going on in her
brain. I mean you find out that your husband -- and we do not know how long they were together, but they were together. You find out that your
whole life has been crushed.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes.
ROBERTS: And, it is really difficult to make your emotions work with you in that moment.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: Often times they take over.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: So, it is not to say that she was having a manic episode or anything of that nature. She might have just been really pissed off.
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what would you do? Would you be composed? Like, "Oh, happiness is the best revenge! Poopooroo" Come on.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: No. No. Doopeedoo? I will tell you where you were convincing me, which is the walking in phenomenon. If you see something so shocking,
that is when I understand people could lose their head.
WASHINGTON: She did not see that though.
PINSKY: I understand. But, it would --
SCHACHER: You do not know what she saw.
WASHINGTON: Well, I am only going with the story. We do not know --
SCHACHER: Exactly, you do not know.
PINSKY: The husband told police he did not want to press charges. They charged her with criminal domestic violence, anyways. I think, Kelvin,
this guy was feeling kind of guilty. That is why he did not want her to be charged.
SCHACHER: Yes.
WASHINGTON: Well, of course. You cannot -- not to mention all of his friends would laugh at him. Typically, men cannot press charges or, you
know, cry about these things because it is not the manly thing. But, he has to sleep with one eye open. Like this is him going to bed at night,
like he has to sleep with one eye open.
(LAUGHING)
ROBERTS: But, they can -- wait a second. But, the thing is, if he was doing this -- if he was doing this and this was something he was being
abused or being hurt by his wife, he should absolutely make the call.
SCHACHER: Yes. Yes.
ROBERTS: She should absolutely have to have that, because it goes both ways whether it is male-female, female-male.
PINSKY: That is right. And, this is the bottom line. Hang on, Kelvin. Which is that you do not want to wait until things get to this point.
Reach for help way sooner.
If your relationship is unraveling, if you are contemplating cheating, that is a symptom that is something is wrong. If you are a serial cheater and a
sex addiction, that is something wrong.
If you are using substances and finding out you are cheating or destroying relationships or there is even the beginning of something that you could
think of as something that might go to domestic violence, you get help then.
Later, as we always say, later is when the legal system gets involved. Then it is on the system. Then you have lost your opportunity. It is much
harder to get things back when they unravel to this point. We do a lot of romanticizing in our culture. A lot of movies are about extreme behaviors.
We do not want things to get to that point.
Next up, retaliation over online sex video leads to another attack. This time with acid directly to a man`s genitalia. Check out our Facebook page,
watch show videos, our after show, and tell us what you think about on anything. Our address of course is facebook.com/drdrewhln. There is on
the screen. And, we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A 25-year-old man will never be able to use his penis again after his 17-year-old girlfriend allegedly threw battery
acid on it. She reportedly became irate after learning he had secretly videotaped the couple having sex, then allegedly posted the x-rated video
online. While he admits he recorded their sex ramp, he insists he has no idea how the video landed online.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo and Ashlan Gorse Coustea, journalist and activist. We have a bunch of "WTF" stories we are covering tonight. Our
next one has generated more than 400 comments on our Facebook page.
According to the South African Press Association, the young man was attacked by his 17-year-old girlfriend in a tavern. She reportedly learned
of the sex video when a classmate showed it to her and she admits, quote, "I lost my mind." \\
Karamo, so, she loses her mind. She does not beat up the car. She takes battery acid -- and I will tell you how that -- she got her hands on that
and then just throws it on his penis.
BROWN: Good for her. That is what I say.
SCHACHE : Yoohoo!
BROWN: This guy is a disgusting pedophile. He is 25 years old. She is 17 years old. Of course, she does not have the mental capacity to first of
all have sex with this man. Then to process that he videotaped her. Good for her. I mean of course, it is wrong to throw acid on anyone`s, you
know, private areas, but --
PINSKY: Slow down, Karamo. We want to make sure we got that. It is not OK to throw acid on people`s face or genitalia? You do not recommend that.
BROWN: No. I do not recommend that.
PINSKY: OK.
BROWN: When I say, good for her, it is because I think it is just disgusting to see that this man had sex with a -- hear she found out in
school, that she was videotaped by her 25-year-old boyfriend, it just disgusts me.
PINSKY: OK. Karamo. Karamo. Stay with me here. We do not know the age -- I agree with you. A 17-year-old should not have sex with a 25-year-old.
We do not know the age of consent down there. I do not know. That maybe control room can tell me what that is while we are going here, number one.
And, number two, we do not know that this guy put the video up online, right? I mean it is one of his screwball friends might have done it. Who
know? Secretly taping somebody, yes, inexcusable. If indeed that is what happened. She claims that. But, we are condemning this guy to a life of
really urinating out of a plastic catheter. Does he deserved that? I do not know. Do he?
BROWN: You do the crime.
SCHACHER: Oh, my Gosh.
PINSKY: Ashlan, what do you think?
ASHLAN GORSE COUSTEAU, JOURNALIST AND ACTIVIST: Well, we do talk about castration here when we talk about pedophiles. And, you are right, we do
not know the age of underage sex there, but he does not mind. At 17-year- old, this girl, if she was here in the states, he would about in high school. At 25, he would have graduated college.
PINSKY: Listen. It happens a lot, but it makes me sick.
COUSTEAU: It is so gross. And, I am not saying she should have done this. But, he deserved something. Maybe it is a swift kick in the balls. I do
not know.
PINSKY: Or just saying get back to his car, Sam. Maybe beat his car up.
SCHACHER: Yes. That is where I draw the line. Fine, destroying his car, maybe a nice kick in the balls. But, pouring acid on --
PINSKY: A nice kick in the balls.
SCHACHER: A good kick in the balls, but pouring acid on his penis, you guys? What he did was egregious, obviously. And, he should get in
trouble. He ruined her life. That will be on the web for her children to see one day.
But, this guy will not have the chance to have children. I think it is so -- I think it is one thing that they thought, "I would love to throw acid
on this jerk`s penis." It is another thing to actually carry it out. OK? There is crazy there.
COUSTEAU: Do you think at 17 she actually understood that?
SCHACHER: I did at 17, Dr. Drew. I would never have thrown -- I had a lot of crappy things done to me at 17. I would never throw freaking acid on
someone`s balls.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And this is destructive. This is not just a burn. This is really causing things to slough off. Let me tell you how she got the acid. The
girlfriend stumbled upon the acid while looking through her father`s tools, for a wrench. Here is what she told reporters. We actually have an audio
recreation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: While I was searching I came across an old acid bottle. I took it and went straight to his regular drinking place.
And, when I got there I became angrier.
I did not hesitate to pour the acid on him. I never intended to kill his penis. I was just angry. And, all I wanted was to make him feel the pain
I was feeling. I had to do something to show him that I was angry and wanted to hurt him so that he could see that he messes with the wrong girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Here is a couple things I get from that re-enactment. Number one, 17-year-old frontal lobes are not fully engaged. She did not understand
the full impact of what she was doing there. We just found out as well that the age of consent is 16. So, this was not illegal. Does not mean it
is OK.
We are back right after this. And, we got something new on Instagram. Check it out every day. See what we are doing before the show and after.
Green room pics, behind the scene photos of my guests and of course I am there. There we are. There is all of us. That is what we do. We stand
around posing. We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We agreed to have sex, but she was not aware I was filming the sex using my laptop computer. I did not intend to show
anyone the video, and I still do not know how it got on social media.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: That is the explanation reportedly given by a 25-year-old man whose girlfriend allegedly threw battery acid on his
penis after learning he secretly videotaped the couple having sex then posted it online.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo and Ashlan. A 25-year-old man says he will never be able to, quote, "Use his penis again after the 17-year-old
girlfriend threw battery acid on it." He told reporters that his injuries require him to urinate through a catheter or a tube and that he needs much
more surgery ahead.
And, let us be very clear, guys. I mean this is destructive acid. You can destroy the tissue. This is not something -- this is not something to mess
around with. I mean this man could lose -- I mean the whole thing could be just a terrible, terrible mess the rest of his life.
The man reportedly is not pressing charges saying, quote, "It will not bring back my manhood." He alleged the teenage attacker told reporters she
was considering pressing charges related to his, quote, "Creation of Pornography." that is interesting. Ashlan, should she press charges?
COUSTEAU: When someone says I do not know how it got from my computer magically onto the internet, come on. That is 100 percent lie.
PINSKY: Yes, but Ashlan, you never had any screwball male friends?
COUSTEAU: I have but never done anything like that with them. And, I do not think I have been secretly taped, but I would probably have figured
that out by now. But, I think this is -- he obviously super, super messed up.
PINSKY: Yes.
COUSTEAU: Like Sam said earlier, this girl is completely messed up for the rest of her life. It is always going to live online as is he. So, I am
not saying she had the right to do it. I think what she did was taking it way too far, but they are both going to have scars literally and
figuratively for the rest of their lives.
PINSKY: I am worried about her, Sam, the fact she could be so premeditative. "I better go find him and when I get there, I am going to
show you, you messed with the wrong girl." I mean that is kind of a primitive thinking that even a 17 year old seems a little primitive.
SCHACHER: I agree. That is what I was saying earlier. You were saying, "OK, her, whatever, frontal lobe is not developed." But, then just a year
later, here in America, you can go fight for your country.
So, I do think as a 17-year-old, almost young adult, you know the difference between right and wrong. Sorry, I am not a doctor but you would
know to not go find out -- seek out your ex-boyfriend after rummaging through your dad`s garage to go find what you can use to do something
horrendous to him.
PINSKY: Yes. For all we know she was looking for a saw or a clipper or something.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
PINSKY: Karamo, you were shaking your head, no, no.
BROWN: Yes, because Sam I have to disagree. I understand that what she did is wrong, but she is not developed yet. And, we also do not know what
type of trauma she dealt with before, why she is acting erratically.
I guess it is because I work with children who have been preyed on. I know in South Africa this is the legal age. This happens to them. They do not
recover. I mean they are so messed up. And, so, when I say that I am happy his penis got off, of course, I am just -- I am going over the board
with this.
But, it is because a lot of these men get off and they go scott free. This girl is living with the scars of having sex with a man who is older than
her, who is living with the scars of having this video out there. This man would have went free.
PINSKY: And you guys, the entire WTF hour we have been talking about is about circumstances that spiral out control because people do not take
maintain boundaries with other people.
You do not know what the other person is experiencing. And, you got to learn to maintain boundaries and be emphatic about it. You can DVR us and
watch us anytime. "Forensic Files" begins now.
END
