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DHS Funding Fight; Jihadi John Identified Jeb Bush Addresses CPAC

Aired February 27, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and happy Friday. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin today.

We begin with the fight to keep Homeland Security funded. This is really getting down to the wire. And if the political battle isn't resolved and resolved soon, this agency that keeps America safe is set to run out of money at the end of the day. And this political showdown comes at a time when the terror threat, as we all know, is bigger than ever.

Now, just a few short hours ago, the Senate passed a bill that would fund Homeland Security through this year. It was a clean bill. Let's take you live now inside House chambers to the House floor. Lawmakers are expected to vote on some kind of a bill. And we're expecting it to be a short-term funding bill, just extending funding for a mere three weeks.

Yet, just a short time ago, you never know what's going to happen here, the House abruptly went into recess without voting on this bill. So I want to bring in CNN's Athena Jones. Also with us, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

Let's start with you, Athena. The ball has been in the House's court now for a few hours. What's the latest?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana.

Well, that is the latest. Normally for a report like this, we'd take you to the House floor, look at the debate going on or the vote that has started. But right now the House is in recess. There is nothing going on, on the House floor. And that's because Republican leadership is having a hard time getting the votes they need to pass this short- term bill that would fund the Department of Homeland Security for the next three weeks.

Right now, GOP leadership is huddled in Speaker Boehner's office talking this through. That's not a good sign either. Here's the problem. You have Republican moderates who say, let's go ahead and vote on this spending bill. The Senate just passed this bill that would fund the Department of Homeland Security through the end of the year. They wouldn't do anything to try to block the president's moves on - his executive actions on immigration. But you have House conservatives who said, look, the only reason we ever agreed to vote on this three-week bill for DHS is because we thought we'd try to find a way to get the Senate bill and the House bill to get those conference reach a compromise on those two bills. So this is all a fight over immigration. The bottom line here is, of course, that the president's not going to sign a bill that would block his moves on immigration.

But that's what they've been fighting over. Democrats, just like some moderate Republicans, want to see the House vote on the longer term bill. And so that's the problem here. Speaker Boehner is looking for enough GOP votes to get that three-week bill through. So far he doesn't have them.

Ana.

CABRERA: I mean that blows me away that we can't even pass this three- week, a short-term funding bill. I mean, Gloria, this fight is really exposing some divisions within the Republican Party and lawmakers there in the House.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I know.

CABRERA: How big of a test is this for Boehner?

BORGER: Well, look, this is a big test for Boehner. Boehner's had big tests before. I'm ready to pull my hair out. I don't know about you. This is ridiculous.

This is the Department of Homeland Security. People, conservative Republicans are trying to make a point here. They don't like the president's executive order on immigration. They don't want to fund it and so that's why it's part of the DHS budget.

We understand the point. They've made the point. This is the Department of Homeland Security. You don't want people to have to work for -- without a paycheck or furlough 30,000 people.

So they've got to get this done. They've got to get it done by the end of the day. And Boehner knows it. I think lots of Republicans know it. And I will tell you this, Ana, that when you look at our own CNN polling, which we have done, we asked people in the middle of February, who is more responsible if DHS shuts down and Republicans in Congress got 53 percent of that and President Obama 30 percent.

So Republicans will shoulder more of the burden with the American public, who is just taking a look at this and say, come on, there are threats from ISIS, national security is very important to us, and you're fooling around over this? Go back and debate it at another time. If you don't like the president's executive order on immigration, fine, deal with it some other way. It's pending in the courts as it is. Republicans want a ruling in the courts with a federal judge in Texas recently. So maybe let that take its course there.

CABRERA: Athena, take us a little bit out of just Washington beltway and help those of us who are kind of laymen at home understand what the process is like. Because now it's in the House, but this may not be the end of it even if they vote on this three-week extension, is my understanding. So, I mean, basically it's gone back and forth now between the House and the Senate, back to the House. What happens next?

JONES: Well, if the House can pass this three-week funding bill, the Senate's already prepared to do so. So -- to do the same thing over here. So as soon as that gets passed in the House, we don't know when or if that's going to happen, but as soon as it gets passed, if it does, they can walk it right over here to the Senate, have the Senate pass it. The Senate can also pass something that says, as soon as the House passes it, we'll pass it, but it's all hanging on the House right now and we're on the edge of our seats, Ana.

CABRERA: All right, let's listen in for just a moment. I understand there are some lawyers talking inside. Oh, excuse me, Steny Hoyer.

REP. STENY HOYER (D), MARYLAND: We've agreed on both sides of the aisle. It is not controversial. It could pass overwhelmingly in the House of Representatives if it were put on the floor. They've sent us that bill. Unfortunately, the Republicans have changed the sequencing of the consideration of legislation so that if we pass a motion to go to conference, the legislation which we could pass, which would be the September 30th funding, the balance of the year funding for the Department of Homeland Security would no longer be in the possession of the House.

So before they take the vote on a short-term CR, they are going to - a resolution which keeps the Homeland Security funded, they're going to send back to the Senate a bill which does exactly that, which was supported 68-31 by the United States Senate. What a sad state we are in when there is almost unanimity of agreement that the Department of Homeland Security is a critical agency for the American people and for our country. Peter King has said, this is crazy. He is right.

CABRERA: And we were just dipping in there. That was Steny Hoyer, representative from Maryland, speaking out about how they have to find a solution to this because the Department of Homeland Security is obviously crucial for our entire national security here. And so we'll see how this all plays out as the debate continues right now in the House. Athena Jones and Gloria Borger, our thanks to both of you. We're going to monitor this, of course, throughout the hour.

Behind a mask. "Jihadi John" became the face of ISIS. The terrorist beheading hostages. And now that his name is uncovered, we're learning more about Mohammed Emwazi and his path toward terror. Born in Kuwait, raised in London since the age of six. Emwazi came to the attention of British security agencies back in 2009 when at that time they thought, analysts say, that Emwazi was headed to Somalia to work with al Shabaab and that extremist group. At that time he said he was just going to Tanzania for a safari. America's top law enforcer, he really didn't have a whole lot to say about the identity of "Jihadi John," but he told our Pamela Brown this.

And we're working to get that sound for all of you, but I do want to play a reaction from James Foley's father. You might recall that James Foley, of course, was the first victim put on display beside "Jihadi John" and then was later beheaded and here's what his dad said on CBS this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FOLEY, FATHER OF U.S. JOURNALIST BEHEADED BY ISIS: If it were not him, it would be somebody else. So, in all fairness, discovering who he is might be important to some people, but it's certainly not important to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Foley's mother also responded to this news. And before we get to our guest, I want to just give her a moment to speak as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE FOLEY, MOTHER OF U.S. JOURNALIST BEHEADED BY ISIS: He did have the benefit of a comfortable upbringing and yet he's using his gifts and talents for such hatred and brutality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now let's bring in the author of this book, "The New Middle East: Protest and Revolution in the Arab World."

Fawaz Gerges, this is - he's also the chair of contemporary Middle East studies at the London School of Economics.

Fawaz, thanks so much for being with us.

FAWAZ GERGES, AUTHOR, "THE NEW MIDDLE EAST": Thank you.

CABRERA: Now that "Jihadi John" is potentially unmasked, does this demystify the brutal killer? Does that help, maybe or hurt ISIS and their propaganda machine?

GERGES: No, I doubt it very much. I think all we know is the identity of the butcher of ISIS. Yet he's still at large. He has killed quite a few people, innocent people, civilian people, and the killing continues, as you know. Not only the killing, now it's collective massacres, mass murders, cultural cleansing, the destruction of cultural heritage of Iraq and Syria, the destruction of the future. So I don't think that the discovery of the so-called the butcher of ISIS, Mohammed Emwazi, will change the dynamics of this particular fight. The killings go on, on a daily basis as we talk, Ana.

CABRERA: I want to ask you about something that we're learning called Salafi jihadism. We know the suspected Boston bombers apparently were interested in this. One of the New York terror suspects reportedly identified himself as a Salafi to his employer. It's still unclear if Mohammed Emwazi also identified himself as a Salafi. But explain this hard line sect of Islam. Does it sanction terrorism essentially?

GERGES: You know, Ana, it's not just Salafi. Salafi in Arabic means ancestors. That is basically it's a political ideology that has a particular harsh and severe interpretation of the religious doctrine. It's really a return to the fundamentals. And this particular ideology ultraconservative harsh interpretation of the facts basically sanctions the ideology of jihadism. So what we're talking about, Ana, is an unholy alliance between this political ideology that has its severe interpretation of religious tacks, Islamic tacks, with jihadism. And thus it sanctions basically terrorism and the service of a utopian political project that is establishing the Islamic State.

In fact, as you know, in the last few days, some - I mean people who knew Mohammed Emwazi have tried to give us a, I think, a very simplistic interpretation of why this man, the so-called soft-spoken gentle human being who was basically radicalized and militarized by mistreatment by the British security forces. I don't buy it. I don't buy it because there are many holes in this argument. What do the --

CABRERA: Well, and you look at how brutal ISIS is. It has spared no one. I mean even this week they just kidnapped some 260 Assyrians, Christians within Syria. And we know that they also kidnapped about a hundred men and boys in Iraq this week. I mean it doesn't really matter who you are, what religion you have. What is it in the Koran? Is there anything in the Koran that could potentially justify to these extremists, it's OK to villainize and do harm to other religious groups?

GERGES: You know, Ana, it's very critical to make a distinction between the holy tacts and the severe interpretation of these tacts. When we talk when we say Salafi jihadism is a twisted interpretation, is a severe interpretation of the religious facts for basically political reasons and political functions. So when you have Osama bin Laden, when you have Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, basically using this political ideology and using severe interpretations and the religious facts in order to legitimize and sanction basically the killing of civilians and killing of people, you know, throughout not just Iraq and Syria, as you said, Christians, Yazidis, Kurds, even Sunnis. As you know, no one, anyone who does not believe in this particular severe, vicious ideology, his blood could easily be shed.

CABRERA: Right.

GERGES: But to come back, final point, about the so-called Mohammed Emwazi, the butcher of ISIS, the argument is here is that this guy obviously is a very tortured creature, finding himself in the heart of darkness in Iraq and Syria, armed with a very vicious ideology, Salafi jihadism, that sanctions the killings of civilians in the service of this political -- utopian political nightmare -- not even vision -- and that's why basically he can do anything he wants because he has this ideology that sanctions his viciousness and vicious actions.

CABRERA: It empowers him. Fawaz Gerges, thank you so much for your insight.

GERGES: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still ahead, some sad news to report at this hour. Actor Leonard Nimoy, known around the world as Spock from "Star Trek," has died. We'll take a look back on his successful life. Also, all eyes on Jeb Bush. He's expected to make his appearance this afternoon at the high stakes conservative gathering CPAC. And, in fact, perfect timing, we're taking you there live right there. Live images as he is just about to address the crowd there. How will this potential presidential contender be received? We will monitor this and we'll take you there live after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Well, call him brave or call him foolhardy, Jeb Bush just took the stage at this huge gathering of conservatives today, furthering testing the waters for a potential presidential run in 2016. Now, the former Florida governor had sort of a rocky relationship with the far right, especially on some of the real divisive issues such as immigration. Attending this conservative political action conference outside of Washington is seen by some as a pretty gutsy move.

And, again, we're looking at some live pictures to the speech. I can tell you, during that commercial break, we heard a lot of cheers coming from that room. Let's get to CNN's national political reporter, Peter Hamby, covering CPAC for us.

Peter, another cheer right there in my ear. This conservative base has at times had little love for the former governor. What's standing out to you about what you're hearing right now?

I think we're having a hard time with Peter Hamby's connection. So let's just listen in to what Jeb Bush is saying right now.

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Public health purposes and the rule of law. First and foremost, we have to do that. Secondly, we need a narrow family petitioning so that it's the same as every other country, spouse and minor children. Not this broad definition of spouse, minor children, adult siblings and adult parents that crowds out what we need, which are economic driven immigrants. Those that want to come here to work, to invest in their dreams in this country, to create opportunities for all of us. And that's what we need to get to. And so as a - and the plan also includes a path to legal status. I have not seen anybody - and I know there's disagreement here. Some of these people are angry about this and, look, I kind of feel your pain. I was in Miami this morning. It was 70 degrees. So, the simple fact is - the simple fact is, there is no plan to deport 11 million people. We should give them a path to legal status where they work, where they don't receive government benefits, where they don't break the law, where they learn English and where they make a contribution to our society. That's what we need to be focused on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me do a follow-up.

CABRERA: All right, in fact, he just talked about immigration, one of the hot button issues within the conservative party right now, and what he just proposed is giving illegal immigrants a path to legal status. Let's bring in our Peter Hamby, who is - who is there covering CPAC right now. First of all, Peter, what stood out to you about what we've been hearing there from Jeb Bush? PETER HAMBY, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, it's interesting, Ana, he just talked -- he got, you know, a mix of cheers and boos when he talked about creating a pathway to citizenship. Just a few minutes ago, he talked about how the party, the Republican Party, needs to do better to appeal to young people, to minorities, to women, to Hispanics. And there were lots of cheers in the room. So, you know, Jeb Bush's problem is that once he gets into specifics about how to do that, the base isn't exactly on board. Immigration, specifically comprehensive immigration reform, you know, is a really divisive issue among the Republican base and so is Common Core. Those are the two issues that Jeb is confronting, why people think he's not conservative. But Jeb, today, is going to talk about the ways that he was conservative as governor of Florida, guns, taxes, abortion.

Ana.

CABRERA: And let's listen in to a little bit more of what he has to say, Peter, and we'll talk again on the back side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our time on immigration, but I want to go through some yes or no scenarios with you. Number one, for example, do you agree with conservatives that say Congress should not pass a Homeland Security funding bill that would fund the president's illegal and unconstitutional amnesty?

BUSH: I think the president - I think the Congress ought to pass a bill that does not allow him to use that authority.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they should stand their ground --

BUSH: We should not -- look, look, I don't know. I'm not an expert on the ways of Washington. It makes no sense to me that we're not funding control of our border which is the whole argument. I'm missing - I'm missing something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you agree that the borders -

BUSH: So I'm not an expert on that. The simple fact is, the president has gone way beyond his constitutional powers to do this and the Congress has every right to reinstate their responsibility for what law is about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no, 100,000 people came from Central America. We all watched over last summer.

BUSH: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should they be sent home?

BUSH: I thought they should have been sent home at the border, to be honest with you, because it would have created -- here's the deal. The humanitarian thing to do would have been to consistently say from the beginning, don't risk your lives crossing as young people, don't pay the gangsters in Central America money from your family members in this country to come all the way across and just get into the - into the country and be processed. And now, with our broken system, it may take three or four years to even begin to process them. Send a clear signal that this was a dangerous thing to do and a wrong thing to do and it would have stopped the flow. We did that as it relates to in Miami and Florida, that was exactly what Bush 41 did as it related to Haitians and it stopped the flow of people. And people didn't lose their lives trying to come to this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask you this.

CABRERA: We're going to break away again, and I want to bring back our Peter Hamby, who's been listening in to not only presidential contender on the GOP side, Jeb Bush, who is speaking right now. And we hear him tip toeing the issue of immigration, in one breath saying there should be a path to legal status for immigrants in this country, and on the other side saying that those -- during the influx of immigrants coming across the border, those migrants coming from Central America, he's saying they should have been turned right around. Can you play both sides here, Peter?

HAMBY: That's sort of exactly what he's trying to do, Ana. That's really interesting you pointed that out. And just now he talked about how, you know, he didn't quite seem to support House Republicans' efforts to tie the defunding of President Obama's immigration order to funding the Department of Homeland Security, you know. So he's sort of finding himself on both sides of the Republican base.

Look, this is what he's going to have to do over and over and over again throughout the next year, whether it's at audiences like this or in Iowa or elsewhere. But the bigger point, and Jeb Bush's theory of the case here, is that this audience doesn't necessarily decide the Republican nomination. This is one slice and a very important and vocal slice of the Republican coalition, but he's also, in talking about immigration reform specifically, appealing to business minded Republicans, to moderates, you know, to young people, to Hispanics. So, you know, to win the Republican nomination, you don't need to win 100 percent of Republican votes in these early primary and caucus states. You just need to win 30 or 40. And that's sort of his thinking at the moment, Ana.

CABRERA: All right, Peter Hamby, thanks for the analysis. Talk to you later.

HAMBY: Thank you.

CABRERA: And we have a lot more news to cover today. Moving along. Up next, the terror group ISIS using social media like a weapon, recruiting hundreds if not thousands of new members. So how can the war be won on the digital battlefield? We'll discuss.

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