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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Latest on the Aaron Hernandez Trial; A New Look at JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case; Actor Leonard Nimoy Has Died; Shroud of Turin Still Being Investigated

Aired February 27, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And then ultimately, that car was seen returning moments after he was shot to death.

Is that more damning than any of the other evidence we've seen so far?

PAUL JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, interestingly enough, Ashleigh, if you're on the prosecution, you spin it one way, if you on the defense, you spin it another. Let's start with the defense.

Look at how they are appear those gentlemen. Do they appear like they're engaged or about to be engaged in any criminality? They appeared jovial, they appear calm, they're having a good time, there's no basis at all in which to kill anybody at the same time.

Now we flip in for the prosecution. These are friends. This was an act done in concert. They were clearly, and remember this, Ashleigh, the gas station video surveillance doesn't only speak to the relationship, it speaks to the bubble gum. Remember, they stop. They got that bubble gum. It was blue. It was cotton candy bubble gum, and that bubble gum was found in the dumpster with DNA evidence along with a bullet that had DNA evidence on it too. A shell casing it is.

And so, depending upon the side you will manipulate it for your own purposes.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Yeah. Well, OK. So the bubble gum is one thing. There's something else can you peer really carefully at that video, guys. And Mel comment on the towel that Carlos Ortiz is seen....

JACKSON: Found at the scene.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Thank you for that. He's seen wearing a white towel around his neck. See the one on the right, the guy on the right? He's got a white towel around his neck at the gas station. And ultimately this towel was found at the murder scene.

You know, its weird wearing a towel around your neck, but then again some people do it. Can you actually make a definitive tie between the towel and the video and the towel at the crime scene now?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR: You can if there's DNA. And again, what's the prosecution trying to do? They're trying to put so many little pieces of evidence together that it leaves the jury with no other conclusion that's reasonable than the fact that Aaron Hernandez was substantially involved in the murder of Odin Lloyd.

I mean what's the defense going to argue at this point that a unicorn flew in and killed the guy. They want to put as much as they can from the blue bubble gum to the towel that you see in that place, to the timeline that they're going to put together, excruciating, so that the jury has no other conclusion that's reasonable then -- heck, yes, he was at the scene, and heck yes, he is part of the plot that killed Odin Lloyd and that they have proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.

JACKSON: Now, one quick thing to remember, though, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Yeah, quickly.

JACKSON: Mere presence is never enough, and so the defense they're going to have to acknowledge he was there. Everything points to him being there. The issue is, was he an active participant or was he there having no knowledge that this was about to go down.

BANFIELD: Good point.

JACKSON: What that is, Odin Lloyd's death.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I mean that's a great point because guess what, no surveillance video at the industrial park when the murder actually happened.

Mel, Joey stay with me because if you think this is a mystery, many people don't. But this next story, it's unbelievable. After all of these years there are now some new revelations from the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation. Believe or not, there's information we did not know.

Also, I had a preview of the new CNN series Finding Jesus. This is the biggest mystery and we are looking into it. Number one, Shroud of Turn. Why are so many people so convinced it is the cloth in which Jesus actually was buried in that cave.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I've got stunning new revelations about the mysterious death of a little girl that many people know even though it was so long ago, JonBenet Ramsey.

The former Boulder, Colorado police chief who led the investigation into that six-year-old beauty queen's death, has posted pretty shocking insights about the still unsolved case. And he did so, on the internet.

JonBenet's murder captured the nation's attention when her body was found in her family's home with a ransom note. That happened Christmas Day in 1996.

Mark Beckner who took over the case in September of '97 has given a lengthy interview on Reddit just earlier this week. And perhaps the biggest revelation is exactly how JonBenet actually died. This is what Beckner wrote, "We know from the evidence that she was hit in the head very hard with an unknown object, possibly a flashlight or similar type item. The blow knocked her into unconsciousness which could have led someone to believe she was dead. The strangulation came 45 minutes to two hours after the head strike, that's based on the swelling of the brain. While the head wound would have eventually killed her, the strangulation actually did kill her.

And Beckner also wrote about JonBenet's mother Patsy Ramsey and that strange behavior when it came to the ransom note and giving handwriting samples for analysis. But I want to stress that he was discussing his mindset during the investigation years ago.

Before the Ramsey family was actually cleared, and make no mistake, they have been cleared. DNA evidence did that in 2008. And it's hard to imagine this, JonBenet would turn 25 years old this August.

In 2012, I sat down and I spoke with her father John Ramsey about the heartbreak of losing his child.

(VIDEO CLIP START)

BANFIELD: Do you think of her. When you think of her now has that little girl, is she frozen at the time?

JOHN RAMSEY, JONBENET'S FATHER: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, she's a six-year-old little girl in my mind and always will be I guess.

BANFIELD: What do you think she'd be like today?

RAMSEY: Well, I think she would be -- she probably, I guess would be out of college by now and probably, you know, she was very smart.

(VIDEO CLIP END)

BANFIELD: And again, although they were under an umbrella of suspicion for a long time, they are clear. Let's be clear.

I want to talk about these new developments with Joey Jackson and Mel Robbins.

Mel, I was really distressed to see this information. Believe it or not, as a journalist you want to know everything. But as a citizen you want to know that police when they have an unsolved case hold things tight to their chest that maybe only the killer would know.

ROBBINS: Yes, Ashleigh. You know, it was fascinating as a citizen to read all of these details, and like you, I was actually reassured to hear that they held back some details.

I mean, I think about for example the Heather Graham case, where we have the serial killer -- suspected serial killer behind bars, and there were many cases that they're trying to link him to.

Now, in that case, if they had given out very specific details about unsolved cases the danger is that the killer could be watching and could cover his or her ttracks and that's probably exactly why the police in this case held back some of those really amazing details that we just learned, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Joey, 26 years ago and this obviously what you call a cold case it is, you know, it's among the coldest of cases. But now with that new information couldn't do the opposite, could it spark people to come forward and jug their memories at least to maybe give that one bit of information that ultimately does solve cold cases because we know it does happen.

JACKSON: You know, Ashleigh my answer is yes, I think the media is the forth of state for a reason. And I think when you have media scrutiny to it, it could spark anew one interest and number two just a general motivation by the police not motivated now but just to look at this case, look at it closely and bring someone to justice.

And so, I'm one that believes I know and I understand that it's nice to hold back the details that only a killer might know. Therefore, when you get someone you could ensure that that's the person who did it. But with this new interview I think you have renewed interest and renewed interest brings renewed attention which brings focus which can hopefully bring justice.

And so, therefore, I think this is a good revelation and a good development to the case.

BANFIELD: Do you think Mel, and listen I've never been in law enforce and I don't know how they work and I certainly -- 26 years ago it was somewhat different. We didn't have all the forensic tools, you know, perfectly refined that we like to think we do today. Is it possible they still have that critical evidence that no one knows about because listen I covered a case in which someone was exonerated who spent decades in prison because they guy came forward, the real killer came forward and he's the only one that knew about the shape of the jewelry box that killed the person who was the deceased in the case. Do you think they still have that nugget?

ROBBINS: You know they might but more importantly if the killer is out there and alive what we may have is a sense of guilt. I mean, what you also see are people that made a false accusations come forward and exonerate people that are in jail. You also see people that are serving time that are living with guilt that maybe find religion later in life.

And so, not only could there be a piece of evidence that we don't know about or a piece of forensics that they could test with technology that we don't even have yet Ashleigh.

But there could be somebody out there that's developed a conscience that comes forward based on these new revelations. But we'll have to wait and see.

BANFIELD: Yes, last comment Joey just about when it is a cold case and a freezing cold case of that, how much, you know, dedication is there to it, how many people are working the case? JACKSON: Well, you know, Ashleigh you have to believe and you want to hold that the police are doing their job, cold case are not. But there are also practical considerations like memories that fade, like evidence certainly that deteriorates. And whenever you have that it becomes problematic to actually solve the case.

So, let's just, you know, continue to hope for the best and we understand that we know that the police will dedicate the resources, hopefully eventually to putting this case to an end and bringing the killer to justice.

BANFIELD: It's still -- it's extraordinarily sad, you know, even 26 years later. Mel, Joey thank you, good to see you.

ROBBINS: Good to see you.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next finding Jesus. No, really, finding the facts. A close up look at the Shroud of Turin as we get a preview of a fascinating new CNN series.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: No matter what you faces Jesus is arguably one of the most fascinating figures in the world and in the hearts and mind of Christians is power in his name alone.

On Sunday CNN is doing something very special, we're premiering a fascinating new series about the history and the ministry of Jesus Christ, it's called Finding Jesus faith, fact and forgery. And it covers all three, it features the latest scientific archeological research, investigating the authenticity of six ancient objects that had been linked to Christ.

The first one when of the Shroud of Turin, something many believed to be the burial shroud of Jesus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Shroud of Turin appears to be a silent witness to all the final sufferings of Jesus.

And then according to the Gospels after he was laid to rest, Jesus is resurrected.

The only thing left behind in his tomb, the linen used to cover his body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crucifixion is among to us powerful parts of the gospel simply because it's the death of Jesus the son of God. But it's also is on tray from the new life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is extraordinary to find an archaeological piece that is proof of his existence, of his death, and of his resurrection. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the research that I've been involved in I think that we are looking at the historic burial cloth of Jesus 2000 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Dr. John Jackson joins me now. He's the founder and director of the Turin Shroud Center of Colorado. In 1978 he was given an unprecedented access to the shroud. Wow, I cannot wait for this series this one of my more fascinating mysteries.

John Jackson, can you tell me though after so much scientific testing, thousands and thousands of hours the people have dedicated. Why don't we know more since we're so good at science?

JOHN JACKSON, FOUNDER & DIRECTOR, TURIN SHROUD CTR. OF COLORADO: Also -- we are -- we do our science as best we can. But we can only do our science on a data that is available to us. There are certainly more information we would like to have.

But based upon what we have, I think we have in good case in my mind from the data and correlating your -- with the Gospels that we are given to us by Christianity as well as some documentary evidence in roughly 10th to the 12th centuries in Constantinople which by the way is before radio carbon date that there isn't any cloth very much like the shroud with an image on it located there.

BANFIELD: OK, stop right there because you mentioned...

JACKSON: So, in balance I think we can.

BANFIELD: Yeah, you mentioned the radiocarbon dating, that's exactly what I wanted to ask you about because, you know, I thought radiocarbon dating was pretty irrefutable. And the radiocarbon dating on the shroud is somewhat questionable. It sort of puts it between 1260 and 1390 which is the Middle Ages, nowhere near a time when Jesus would have been buried.

JACKSON: Yes. The radiocarbon measurement is something that we have to respect. But like any other measurements in science, there are assumptions upon which the interpretation of the measurement resides. And that's, I think, where the issue is.

So, if you believe that you have reasons to think that, maybe, that date is not giving us the correct calendar date and in case -- in this case, I think, we are with the shroud because of, for example, the evidence that there is a cloth that existed very much like the shroud in Constantinople, that is several centuries before the radiocarbon date.

And also, from our scientific studies of the shroud, there are fold marks on this cloth that dovetail very nicely when you reconstruct this with what is reported to us in Constantinople.

So, for me, I think, that's a pretty compelling reason to take a serious look at the radiocarbon dating. BANFIELD: Thank you, Dr. John Jackson. It's great to talk you. And like I said, I cannot wait for this because to me this is the ultimate mystery. Looking forward to it. Finding Jesus airs Sunday night at 9:00, make sure you watch it right here on CNN.

I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. We have just learned some distressing news, sad news. Leonard Nimoy, known for his character Dr. Spock on Star Trek has died at the age of 83. He had chronic lung disease after years of smoking, keeping in the hospital earlier this week and died this morning at his home in Los Angeles.

Our Jason Caroll has a look now at his legacy and how he'll be remembered. And the signature line that everybody's familiar with, even if you didn't watch the show, "Live long and prosper."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD NIMOY: That is quite logical, Captain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JASON CAROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Leonard Nimoy was and will always be remembered as Spock, the half-human, half-Vulcan he portrayed for more than four decades on the big screen and the small screen, where his character debuted in the original Star Trek series September 8, 1966.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: That might be correct captain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: Spock's life on board the Starship Enterprise took him to many worlds. In reality, Nimoy's love for acting began right here on earth in his home town.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: I started acting when I was a little boy about eight years old in a neighborhood settlement houses in Boston,and kind of grew up into it.

Live long and prosper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: As beloved as Spock's with his audiences in his early career. Nimoy, played a lot of characters audiences love to hate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: I have done a lot here. Yeah, I have pushed a lot of people around and got my comeuppance in the end of the show.

The banks are building radar for box office, they can smell a winner. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: Nimoy's big break came when a producer took noticed of the young actor in an episode of the '60s marine corps drama, "The Lieutenant," that producer, Gene Roddenberry. Who, like the cast, saw something special in Nimoy's Spock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM SHATNER, ACTOR: He invented that character. They had made an earlier pilot in which nobody grasped the edges of the character.

GEORGE TAKEI: With his imagination and his innovation, his creativity made that character one interestingly humanized and so reverently intriguing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: Despite of all the Star Trek spinoffs and dozen movies, five series, countless conventions, the first Star Trek series lasted only three seasons, 79 episodes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: My favorite episode was called Amok Time. In that episode we saw -- we heard the words, "Live long and prosper," for the first time and we saw Spock do this for the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: Nimoy went on to star in a number of T.V. shows following the series. He also pursued other passions photography and poetry, publishing a book in 1977.

In the '90s, Spock appeared in Star Trek, "The Next Generation."

And when J.J. Abrams rebooted the movies in 2009, again in 2013, the original Spock was there too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: 35 years ago, I'm with the enterprise for the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: NASA shuttle Enterprise named after the Starship. And when it retired in 2012, Nimoy was there to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell us about what you're feeling today.

NIMOY: It feels like a reunion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLL: In Nimoy's later years, he spoke about the dangers of smoking, after being diagnosed with a lung disease.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: I quit a long time ago. Why is this happening to me? But it's the lesson that I have to learn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His character Spock may have prided himself of being emotionless. But in the end, that could not be further who the man was to his family and friends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIMOY: And both shall be your friend.

SHATNER: First and foremost is a long and deep friendship, love that I have for Leonard. He is an essence of brother I never had.

NIMOY: Can you turn around?

Live long and prosper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I just want to read for you if I can, Leonard Nimoy's last tweet, its right here, "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserve except in memory." And he signs it off with LLAP, live long and prosper.

Jason Caroll is here with me now. Jason, I know you were a Trekker. I don't know if you prefer to be called Trekker or Trekkie.

CAROLL: Both applies.

BANFIELD: But I know that my Twitter will be alive right now because I sent Dr. Spock and not Mr. Spock, but I've had two babies and read a lot of books and that's why I said that.

But you know what, it is a testament though to how profound the effect of that cast and Leonard Nimoy has been.

CAROLL: You know, I don't think there's anyone on the planet who has not heard of Star Trek or Spock or live long and prosper. So many people not just the fans were influenced by this man.

One thing that I found to be interesting about him is when I spoke to him, and it's been about three years now since I last spoke to him, he was so different than the character he is so well known for. And William Shatner basically said the same thing. When I spoke to him last year, he basically said, "Here was a character who was known for not showing emotion." But he said, "Leonard Nimoy was the type of man who had such a great sense of humor and was always showing his emotion in that way."

There is another tweet that I want to mention here. Well, you mentioned his final tweet. There was also a tweet from last year that he will also be known for and how to do with the COPD. He said, "I quit smoking 30 years ago," he tweeted. He said, "Not soon enough, I have COPD. Grandpa says, 'Quit now'," and then, of course, the LLAP for live long and prosper.

This is a man, a character who will be remembered for such a very long time.

BANFIELD: Jason Caroll, thank you. CNN is going to continue this coverage as well. Thanks for watching. Wolf starts right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)