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Boris Nemtsov Murdered Close To Kremlin; ISIS Commander Reportedly Ordered To Free Dozens Of Syrian Christians; Netanyahu To Arrive In U.S. Tomorrow Night; Avijit Roy Hacked To Death In His Native Bangladesh

Aired February 28, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Russia state media released a video of a white car they say may be been used in the shooting.

Also, President Putin writing a very personal message to Nemtsov's mother vowing to punish her son's killer, writing, please accept my deepest condolences in connection with this irrespirable loss. I sincerely share your sorrow for Nemtsov's. He left his mark in the history of Russia. It goes on to say we'll do everything to ensure that the perpetrators of this foul and cynical crime and those who stand behind them are properly punished.

My next guest had a personal connection with Boris Nemtsov. She joins me from Moscow now, Daily Beast correspondent Anna Nemtsova.

Thank you for being with me. I appreciate it. What's the sense on the ground there just in terms of the shock level of people today?

ANNA NEMTSOVA, CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes. Everybody's talking about the murder. I was just in the taxi coming here to the studio, and the driver was saying, you know, it must be some radicals who want to show to demonstrate to the president that they might be coming to power. So there are different versions, and we'll hear the official versions and the Kremlin eyes, the usual suspects there, talking about Islamic extremists or somebody who hates the Kremlin's power, opposition activists. But nobody is talking from their officials about the version that leaders Nemtsov's friends have. And they suspect authorities actually. They say that authorities created such as fear of hostility where people just like (INAUDIBLE), just like deposition and called them traders. So, that was what coursed, they say, this trouble.

HARLOW: And Anna, it is incredibly early going. We don't want to jump to any conclusions here. I do, though, have to ask about the timing. Do you believe that the timing is suspicious since this murder comes about 36 hours before a planned opposition march?

NEMTSOVA: Yes, it is. And also it is suspicious that the murder happened right after Nemtsov's on (INAUDIBLE), Moscow criticizing the Kremlin and criticizing President Vladimir Putin. He also gave one more interview just 30 minutes before the murder when he remembered the time where he (INAUDIBLE) was thinking of him as of him as a successor. Besides, we know that Boris Nemtsov has received a number of threats.

He complains of all that life threats on social networks. But he did not pay too much attention to this. He had been threatened many, many times in the last years and years.

HARLOW: Right. On that point, I just want our viewers to be able to hear this, hear from ne Nemtsov himself. He sat down with our Anthony Bourdain last year in a restaurant in this interview. And here's what he said in an interview. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: Critics of the government, Putin, bad things seem to happen to them.

BORIS NEMTSOV, CRITIC: Yes. Unfortunately, existing power represent, what I stay, Russia of 19th century, not of 21st.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Even though he knew, Anna, that he could be a target, he walked around the streets of Moscow with no body guards. And many read that as a very defiant statement in of itself.

NEMTSOVA: That's true. And people talk about this. They now reading the news, many wonder, so if he knew that he was under threat, how come he was walking around without any body guards? He was one of the most high profile opposition leaders in Russia. He was the former deputy prime minister, former minister of Russia, but that was an insult. He really was always accessible. He was always very close to people. He was accessible for (INAUDIBLE). We, reporters could always interview him at any time of his career.

HARLOW: You know, it is interesting, Peter Baker, the author of "Kremlin Rising" wrote this. He wrote, it will certainly send a terrible message to people who are fighting this cause Nemtsov has been fighting. Do you agree with that?

NEMTSOVA: We'll see tomorrow. Tomorrow many people who respect Nemtsov, all who feel concerned about the crisis in Russia and the war in Ukraine will come out in memory of Boris Nemtsov and walk in the center of Moscow all the way from the (INAUDIBLE) metro station toward the bridge where Nemtsov was gunned down. We'll see how many people come out tomorrow.

In one of the last interviews, Nemtsov said that the march that he wanted to be called spring, was supposed to be the turning point for changes in Russia. Tomorrow will show if he was right.

HARLOW: Thank you for joining me. I appreciate your time and expertise on this. Thank you very much.

And as we continue to follow the news, just into us, really breaking late last night, reaction to Nemtsov's death is pouring in. World chess champion turned opposition activist Gary Kasparov tweeting, when we argued, Boris would tell me I was too hasty, that in Russia, you have to live a long time to change. Now, he'll never see it. RIP. Really, it's a distraction to what the latest murder means when the pattern is clear oppose Putin, and your life is worth little.

Also this coming today from President Barack Obama. Nemtsov was a tireless advocate for his country, seeking for his fellow Russian citizens, the right to watch all people to which all people are entitled. It went on to say, I admire Nemtsov courageous dedication to the struggle against corruption in Russia.

Elsewhere overseas today, Hamas is angrily denouncing a ruling by an Egyptian court that calls it a terrorist organization. This is the latest in a series of moves by Egypt to undermine extremists, another was when they banned the party, you know the name well, the Muslim brotherhood.

Our Ian Lee joins me now from Cairo.

Ian, thank you for being with us. I know it's late there. When you look at this, I wonder what the significance of this is to you in your mind.

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, looking at it, it is essentially a very damming verdict against the Hamas. But looking further into it, there is a lot of ambiguity.

First, it's coming from a court of urgent matters. Talking to a lead lawyer here in Cairo, and according to the new terrorism law, this court does not have the jurisdiction to call Hamas a terrorist organization. That jurisdiction lies with the general prosecutor and a different court system.

Also, looking at it, this is unusual for the court to make this sort of ruling. Usually, it comes from the executive branch, the president that makes this sort of declaration. But Egypt has been accusing Hamas of fueling the insurgency in northern Sinai and killed hundreds of security personnel.

They also accused Hamas of a 2011 jailbreak of Muslim brotherhood members during the revolution there. Hamas denies this. But these are very damming accusations against the organization.

But what this also means is it could make a more dangerous situation. Egypt has been the broker of peace between Israel and Hamas for the last three wars. Hamas doesn't trust Egypt to be a broker anymore. It doesn't happen. If there is another war, that raises the question who can then be the broker of peace, Poppy.

HARLOW: So at this point in time, is president Al-Sisi weighing in at all on this?

LEE: We have not heard him weigh in. But it makes no illusion that the Muslim brotherhood is a terrorist organization. Hamas belongs to the Muslim brotherhood. And Egypt, really, sees the two in the same. They (INAUDIBLE) all radicals, all fundamentalists are all part of the same branch or same tree. So they have not differentiated between the two. But there still is -- there's still an appeal process to be done. This is not over yet.

HARLOW: Right.

LEE: And also need to note that Hamas' militant wing, the (INAUDIBLE) brigade was declared a terrorist organization by the same court.

HARLOW: All right, Ian, thank you very much. We'll continue to follow with this evening and get more a little bit later on in the program. Thank you.

Ian Lee joining us live from Cairo.

Also this, take a look. We are going to show you some live pictures, GOP contenders for 2016 fighting to win the hearts of conservatives. Today's straw poll could show who conservatives like the most. Also, maybe who has the inside track to win the next GOP nomination. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Any moment now, we will know who hard core conservatives think should win the White House in 2016. Voting at CPAC, the conservative political action conference has been going on all weekend for the straw poll. Several potential 2016 candidates along with thousands of activists, selected officials, and party leaders are anxiously awaiting results of it.

Let's bring in Chris Frates who joins us from there this afternoon.

All right, we are going to get to the straw poll in a moment, the significance of it. I do want to talk about Jeb Bush, right? Because he is one of the most anticipated speakers, I know already spoke, what's your assessment? How did he do?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Poppy. He did very well. Because, remember, CPAC is conservatives, young, libertarians, and not necessarily the establishment crowd that Jeb Bush is the man for. And he came in today, had -- excuse me, he came in on Friday, had a great showing. And he wanted to prove his conservative bonafied (ph). He is looked at as a moderate, by in-large, by people on this crown.

So he went to tax cuts. He went to $19 billion in tax cuts as governor of Florida. He talked about that. He talked about $2 billion in veto spending, and he had a great line about that. Let's listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: They called me vetoed for (INAUDIBLE) because we did vetoed 2500 line items in the budget totaling $2 billion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: So there you have it. He make it a little light of it, that went over very well, and was able to kind of convince conservatives that, you know, while he maybe a moderate, he has very conservative principles, and that went over well, Poppy.

HARLOW: OK. That's a Jeb Bush, and a lot of people want the attention, frankly, that he's getting right now. When it comes to this straw poll, do we -- I'd like to know what the results are, but also the significance of it, if it really matters in terms of determining the candidate?

FRATES: Well, it's a great question. It's a snapshot of how the base in this particular base feels about the candidate. And so it is also an exercise in how much momentum did the candidates get coming out of their appearances?

And you have Rand Paul who has won for the last few years in a row. He is looking for a three peat this year. And it's likely that he is going to get it. He has spent a lot of time and energy here organizing that straw poll.

But you have guys like Scott Walker, the governor of Wisconsin, who came in really electrified the crowd with the speech and was able to show some more momentum. We are seeing that momentum in places like Iowa now. He's up in the polls there. And so I think we're going to be looking for Scott Walker, how well does he do? Can he overtake Rand Paul?

And while this is not necessarily going to give us a sense of who is going to win the nomination, it's certainly a really nice litmus test for where we are as a snapshot right now coming out of one of the first and biggest events where these candidates really got to test drive their message and see how it plays with a very conservative libertarian base.

HARLOW: And those results for the straw poll come in the next hour, is that right?

FRATES: Yes, we're going to have those within 4:30 or 5:00. We are looking at those results coming in. And stay tuned because we'll be back here with those results to tell you how did people do.

HARLOW: We'll come to you live for that. Chris Frates, enjoy CPAC. Thanks for joining me.

Coming up next, an incredible development today in the fight against ISIS, the terror group releasing hostages. You do not hear that very often, not because the coalition forced them to, but because their courts, ISIS' own courts ordered them to. The most dangerous terror group in the world following a court order. What? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: A shocking about face by ISIS in Syria. An ISIS commander has reportedly ordered to free dozens of Syrian Christians who were recently taken captive in northern Syria. More than 200 people including women, children, and the elderly were captured few days ago as ISIS fighters overran a key town. But according to an opposition group, a Sharia court that follows strict Islamic law and now says 29 of those captives, those Christians, should be set free.

I want to bring in my guest to discuss this. Let's bring in Graeme Wood, contributing editor at "the Atlantic" and also who has written an article on what ISIS wants that sparked a lot of conversation around the globe.

Also with me now, Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Institution center for Middle East policy and also author of "Temptations of Power: Islamists and illiberal democracy in the new Middle East."

Thank you both for being here, gentlemen.

Graeme, let me begin with you. Are you surprised to hear, first of all, that ISIS is basically being ordered by a court of its own making to release some of these Syria Chris Christians?

GRAEME WOOD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Certainly. Pleased to hear it. I'm not entirely surprised because ISIS is claimed for a long time to follow rules. And it claims that these Sharia courts will impose limits. It's not merely want and viola violence, but that they have to follow rules that are set by their own jurists.

Now, there is, of course, questioned of about whether they are sincerely or correctly implementing this kind of law, but it's not the first time that they said you can't just do anything. You have to set limits.

HARLOW: I guess, Graeme, what it makes me think, is OK, they have taken more than 200 of these Syrian Christians captive there, say they are going to releasing 29 of them. That's a small fraction. Could you read this as them trying to put a gain some legitimacy among their followers by saying, look, we follow the courts.

WOOD: Yes. I think that is one way to think of it. You know, they've been accused of violating Islamic law, in particular ways, and then sometimes they will make a statement saying that, no, actually we've had within our own structure the same kinds of violations that we see and punish them when they happen. So I think they can try to attempt to get creditability by showing them that they follow rules and that they have some kind of transparent process that follows their particular implementation of the law.

HARLOW: So Shadi, to you. King of Abdullah of Jordan was just interviewed by our Fareed Zakaria. The full interview coming up tomorrow on Fareed's show. But when Fareed asked what ISIS was trying to accomplish with these brutal execution videos, here is what the king said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: What do you think they were trying to do with the video? With the --

KING ABDULLAH II, JORDAN: They are always trying to intimidate, scare, put fear into people's hearts. And, you know, this is a group that works by intimidations. That they are trying to invent, falsely linkage to a link to caliphate linked to our history in Islam which has no truth of bearing to our history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Shadi, do you agree with that? Because when you look at Graeme's article talking all about how ISIS really believes their actions are deeply rooted in history and in pure Islam.

SHADI HAMID, AUTHOR, TEMPTATIONS OF POWER: Well, certainly, ISIS thinks that they are subscribing to the true authentic Islam. There's no doubt about that. But that's not the same to say that their views are somehow equally legitimate as other views on Islamic law. So I would agree, and I think the vast majority of Muslims and other observers would say that ISIS has a very unique, let's say, distorted approach to Islam.

But they do take -- they take their own believes very seriously whether it's their apocalypse vision, their kind of -- the sharia courts that you just talked about minutes ago, so that is -- so in that sense, they are motivated by religious passions. When you're talking about the fighters on the battlefield, they think that they are dying for the true cause in that they are serving God.

Now, some of the leaders of ISIS might be a little bit more cynical in how they manipulate followers and supporters. But generally speaking, this, you know -- but that is -- that's different than saying that this is somehow just because they think that what they are doing is true and authentic does not mean it's actually a true and authentic version of Islam.

HARLOW: Right. It's a very important point. Let me show this video. It is incredibly disturbing. What it shows is ISIS members using sledge hammers destroying priceless artifacts. Look at that. It is absolutely incredible.

Now, there have been some reports that they may have saved some that they can then try to sell on the black market.

But Shadi, to you, do you view this as them destroying every sort of icon other than the true God in saying this, you know, we can't even have representations of things like this?

HAMID: Well, certainly that's what they say, but they have been more, let's say, pragmatic in other instances where they haven't destroyed statues and other historical artifacts and they have actually sold those artifacts for money.

So, I mean, there are different sides to ISIS. And that sends a very complex organization. So just as we see now that they've ordered release of 29 Christian hostages, most of the time they would behead them. But that's where I think ISIS is a little bit more unpredictable and does not always follow our expectations of them as kind of outside western observers.

And I mean, so the other side too is when you look at their interest in governance, and this is where the Sharia courts play in, that unlike other extremist groups that are just interested in destroying things, ISIS has more of an interest in governance. And it has to have that because it controls a large swath of territory. So I think that these different aspects of the organization have to be taken seriously. So some of it is religiously motivated, but some of it is also about holding territory and what you do with actual territory.

HARLOW: We have to go, very quickly, Graeme. But I got to get this in to you. Your article was tweeted a lot by ISIS supporters. What do you think of that?

WOOD: Well, I'm pleased in exactly one sense, which is that ISIS supporters seem to think that I have portrayed them in terms that they understand. And that was my goal in the article to say what their ideology is, to describe it in ways that were true to their own belief.

Of course, that does not mean they are right or have the correct interpretation of Islam, but I think now that we have some sense of what they think as a matter of policy, we can start looking at the many things that Shadi pointed out as other elements of the group and other motivations.

HARLOW: Gentlemen, thank you very much.

For our viewers, if you have not read Graeme's article "what ISIS really want," I would highly suggest going to the "Atlantic" reading it and then debating it with him and others on twitter.

Thank you, gentlemen. And for everyone watching, you can see Fareed's full interview with King Abdullah. That is tomorrow 10:00 a.m. eastern on CNN, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." Fascinating interview coming up in the morning.

Next, Israel has been one of America's closest allies for decades. Now that relationship really seems to be in jeopardy because of a big speech coming up on Tuesday in Washington. We're talking about a battle Royale in D.C. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrives in the United States tomorrow night. But even before his plane lands in Washington, his presence is certainly already being felt there. Dozens of Democrats promising to boycott his speech on Tuesday. They are protesting the fact that the house speaker, John Boehner, invited the prime minister to address Congress without giving the White House notice. We should point out the president is not meeting with the prime minister on this visit.

U.S. ambassador Susan Rice calls this more than just a breach of protocol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: What has happened over the last several weeks, by virtual of the invitation issued --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: By the speaker of the house?

RICE: By the speaker and acceptance of it by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on two weeks in advance of his election is that on both sides, there has now been injected a degree of partisanship which is not only unfortunate. I think it's -- it's destructive of the fabric of the relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was Susan Rice, our national security advisor.

Let's bring in former U.N. and state department official David Tafuri. Thank you for being with me. And also, I should point out David is a former Obama foreign policy adviser.

So we just heard Susan Rice say that Netanyahu's decision to address Congress is destructive to the fabric of the relationship. When I hear that, a question that also comes to mind is that comment as destructive?

DAVID TAFURI, FORMER U.N. AND STATE DEPARTMENT: To not support this visit by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, for two reasons.

First of all, it's close to the prime minister's election. We forget sometimes how important it is for foreign leaders to show their people that they are close with the United States. And so, this is, in a way, an election tactic by the prime minister.

And seconds of all, President Obama is not supporting the visit because Netanyahu is going to argue to Congress that they should not support the potential deal with Iran. This is the nuclear deal. And the president and his team are working very hard to negotiate that deal, and, therefore, the president prefers the prime minister could not come at this time to make that argument to Congress.

However, Speaker Boehner wants to use this to inform members of Congress. He certainly doesn't support the negotiation that lead as far there going so far with Iran. And he is going to use it to make -- help make the case to members of Congress not to support a weak deal or a deal that does not ensure that Iran will not have nuclear weapons for a long time.

HARLOW: But he doesn't trust, even if there is a deal, Netanyahu does not trust at all that Iran is going to lives up to its end of it. I mean, that's what it boils down to.

Look, Peter Beinart wrote recently something interesting. He said this, the president, President Obama understands Israel through the lens of liberalism while Netanyahu understands it through the prism of security and strength. Do you see merit to the argument in term the of why there is a divide between these two men.

TAFURI: I don't think you can break it down like that. I mean, you can argue that both are seeking to achieve greater security in the Middle East. The president, by working out a deal with Iran, so Iran will not have nuclear weapons, the prime minister worried that Iran will break a deal.

So the devil is in the details. What will the deal say? What will Iran have to commit to? And in most importantly in many ways, will the deal require that Iran back off and make progress on its agreements under any deal before sanctions are lifted by the U.S.?

Again, that's the incentive for Iran. It really wants sanctions with it. Therefore, many support lifting the sanctions gradually as Iran demonstrates that it's honoring the deal.

HARLOW: If you look back to 1990, when you have George H.W. Bush in office, you have got secretary of state James Baker testifying before Congress, you also have a point in time when there was a very frosty relationship between the United States and Israel. Do you believe that the tension was worse then? Do you believe it's really at its worst right now? I mean, do we have to look at this in a little bit broader context?

TAFURI: The tension may be at its worst right now. Over the last couple of years, there have been a couple areas of disagreement between Netanyahu and President Obama. They are clearly not as close as presidents have been in the past with the prime ministers of Israel. And there are areas where they just don't agree.

That does not mean that they can't become closer in a few years. Certainly, the Iran issue needs to be worked out. Israel has to be satisfied that Iran is really going to live up to very strong terms and give up its effort to get nuclear weapons.

HARLOW: But David, do you think even if the U.S. is successful in reach an agreement with Iran by the deadline, do you think Netanyahu is going to buy it and believes Iran?

TAFURI: Well, I mean, if a deal was worked out and the other five countries that are working on the deal with the U.S. agree to it, Netanyahu will have no choice but to watch and see whether Iran abides by it or not. But certainly Iran -- Israel has great intelligence. It is going to monitor Iran very closely.

HARLOW: David, thank you. I appreciate it very much. Good to have you on the program.

TAFURI: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next, pilgrims of all faith go to Jerusalem to see the holy sites. But the conflict overseas, threat from ISIS is giving holy land tourists, of course, some second thoughts. They are still going though. We are going to discuss that coming up next.

Also this, time for CNN Heroes, this time we are recognizing a young inventor with a big idea.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My grandfather has Parkinson's disease causing him to shake. He spill all the time. So I decided to make the kangaroo cup. I came up with the idea when I was around eight or 9- years-old. I wanted to put legs on the cup because I figured that it wouldn't be as likely to spill. The original cup was made out of porcelain. We decided to make a plastic version so it can be used by anybody like little kids, people with mobility issues. I have a design team, and they really do help me so much. Color? Blue?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lily has sold about 11,000 cups total. So many of her classmates and teachers do not even know what she's doing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like the next big thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really do keep the kangaroo cup talk to a minimum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember reading about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, the word is spreading around school, like, lily did what? She did what? She invented this cup? Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is so cool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, lily, how are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.

My cub changed my grandfather's life because that's the only cup he uses now, like, once the kangaroo cup came, the other cups that he used, they were just out of the picture.

One day, I wanted to give money from the kangaroo cup to Parkinson's research and hopefully they'll find a cure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's to you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: A trip to the holy land is a dream for many faithful. But begin the recent conflicts, some are having major many have second thoughts, others are not concerned. They believe that they will be protected.

Our Elise Labott talked to some them along the historic Villa Dela Rosa in old Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER (voice-over): After a series of high profile attacks, a war with Gaza, and with Christians facing persecution from ISIS and other groups across the Middle East --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pay attention where we are right now.

LABOTT: These days, Israel has a harder time attracting tourists to the holiest sites of early Christianity. In the church where the Virgin Mary is believed to have been born, the

sound of music reverberates on these walls of worship. In its baritone, the deepest inspiration for Christians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The place is wonderful, beautiful, and so grateful, but it's for him. It's all about him. And it's all about worshipping him.

LABOTT: Christians of all denominations come to Jerusalem to visit the sacred places they believe builds a deeper connection with their faith. Pastor John Turner's tours draw followers from across the United States. Walking along the Villa dela Rosa where Jesus is believed to have taken final steps. A man of God finds worshipping on this land brings the bible to life.

So this is the path that Jesus took in his final hours?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. You know, when we go all around, we know these are places that Jesus could have been. But at this one spot, we know this is exactly the place where he was. And it was the place where he took his cross, and went, you know, for us, and so that's why it's moving and touching to us.

LABOTT: David loves pilgrimage began in (INAUDIBLE), California. As a pastor, he thought about these holy sites for 30 years, yet seeing them for the first time affirms a lifetime of conviction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The believing is not because of the places are here. I mean, the believing was there before, but it just gives a confirmation that what I've been reading, what I've studied, what I taught all these years, there's validity to it, there's truth in it.

LABOTT: Tourism in Israel slowed since the war in Gaza with Hamas last summer. And elsewhere in the region, Christians are under persecution at the hands of ISIS extremists. But believers like Ruth Harrison continue to flock here despite the turmoil, risking their safety with the faith, they are safe in God's hands.

RUTH HARRISON, BELIEVER: He controls my destiny. And so, wherever I am, I just believe that he is going to take care of me no matter the circumstance. And that's been true my whole life.

LABOTT: A final prayer on the stone pavement where Jesus is believed to have taken up the holy cross.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.

LABOTT: And in an ultimate connection to their creator on the journey of a lifetime to follow in his footsteps.

Elise Labott CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Fascinating piece by Elise. Thank you for that. Coming up next, a war of persecution. Some Christians see the fight

perpetrated by ISIS as not just insurrection, but an actual holy war. Is that an accurate assessment? We'll discuss coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: A surprising move by the terrorist group, ISIS, 29 Syria Christians who were taken hostage are now set to be released because of a court order, ISIS' own court. Still, though, the fate of nearly 200 others taken hostage by ISIS, many of them women and children, remains unknown. And this comes just days after they were kidnapped from their villages in northern Syria.

This is just the latest example of the atrocities of ISIS. But are they simply the acts of barbaric terror group or are we on the brink or in a holy war already?

Let me bring in Father Edward Beck, host of the Sunday mass, also CNN religion commentator and joining me as well, retired colonel, James Reese, former U.S. Delta commander and also CNN global affairs analyst.

Let me begin with you, Father Beck. Do you read this, do you see this as a holy war, pure and simple?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION COMMENTATOR: I don't, Poppy. There's nothing holy about it. It's an unholy war. If it's a holy war, you give legitimacy to the thought that these are two legitimate religions fighting. And it's not that.

ISIS does not represent Islamic tradition, religion, by any stretch of the imagination. So I think that's what they want to see it be called. They want to see it be called a holy war. But if you do that you give it legitimacy that it does not deserve.

HARLOW: Colonel, do you agree with that? Because ISIS would say and has said they're going back to the roots of Islam. That they represent true Islam. They're trying to build this caliphate across Syria and Iraq and they like to spread it further if they can. Obviously, many, many Muslims in this world do not agree with that at all, most. Do you believe that this is a holy war? Or do you believe what Father Beck said that this is exactly the opposite?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), FORMER SPECIAL FORCES COMMANDER: Hi, Poppy.

No, it is not a holy war. And I absolutely agree with Father Beck. I mean, I have the most of my felt life either been fighting in these land over there where religion is such a key aspect are now running a business and having all kinds of people that were responsible for.

And what I've tried to do throughout these years now is instead of finding the difference, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a Roman Catholic. But instead of finding the differences between Islam and Christianity, the folks that I try to do now is we try to do is find what are the commonalities. And I actually got thought that by a Muslim in Saudi Arabia about the commonalities between Christianity and Islam.

HARLOW: Father Beck, when you look at the head of the Catholic Church, Pope Francis has condemned ISIS' actions. And some say, it's up to the Vatican to do even more. Do you believe we should be hearing more from the Vatican on this?

BECK: Well, I mean, words I suppose are helpful. But you know what I would like to see, Poppy? I would like to see Pope Francis call a meeting, a conference of all the Muslim leaders, the major Muslim leaders. We had one, an interfaith dialogue a couple of months ago, but just Muslim leaders. There is a lot of people say they are not speaking vociferously enough against ISIS. Well, of course, they are. But it's not in a unified way.

So if the Pope were to have them come to the Vatican and have them at one voice denounce ISIS, I think that would get a lot of media attention. I think the world would see that yes, there are many Muslim leaders who are decrying all the violence of is. And I think that could take one more step toward a peaceful solution perhaps.

HARLOW: We saw something similar to that play out at the White House last week with, you know, a lot of Muslim leaders going there in this conference about fighting terrorism.

When you look at what has happened, this of course is kidnapping of the Syrian Christians, comes after the beheading of 21 Egyptian Christians in Libya. What I find interesting is the fact that with all of these recent moves, Colonel, ISIS seems to be infuriating those that perhaps were not joining the fight against them.

REESE: Yes. I agree on that with you, Poppy. But you know, the other thing they also try to do, they swing 180 degrees with this ruling, you know, with the Syrian Christians by again trying to show their followers that they are a state, that they are a nation state, and they are going to set up the caliphate.

So again, you know, they go from left to right. And it can be confusion sometimes for most people watching this. Abut at end of the day this I not a holy war. The Muslims out there do not believe they represent Islam in any way. And they're just crazy.

HARLOW: Thank you, Colonel Reese, Father Beck, good to have you on the program.

REESE: Thanks, Poppy.

BECK: Thank you.

HARLOW: An American and an outspoken critic of extremism met a violent end overseas. Radicals in Bangladesh swore they would kill him if he ever set foot back in Bangladesh. He did, and he was brutally attacked and murdered. The latest on that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: We're learning new details in the troubling death of a prominent American blogger, brutally hacked to death in his native Bangladesh. Multiple media outlets reporting the attack was a professional hit carried out by Islamic radicals. Aviji Roy was an outspoken critic of religious extremism. He was no stranger to death threats.

Our (INAUDIBLE) reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER (voice-over): Blood on the street of the Bangladesh capital on Friday, following a brutal and deadly attack on an American author and blogger. Aviji Roy, a U.S. citizen and his wife, were returning from a book fair when witnesses say they were attacked by at least two men wielding machetes. The 42-year-old Roy was hacked to death. His wife was seriously injured.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I saw an unknown person bring out a big knife and first hit him from behind on his head and then on his shoulders. I shouted for help from the people, but nobody came to save him. No one came. A lady was with him. She was his wife. She was also hit on the shoulder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Police say they've recovered the machetes used in the attacks, but haven't yet identified any suspects.

According to several reports, an Islamist extremist group has claimed responsibility. Friends and family say Roy had received numerous death threats from Islamist militants unhappy with his blog. Roy founded the site (INAUDIBLE) or free mind which champions secular thinking and condemns religious extremism.

On Friday, the site posted a simple message in Bangali which translated reads "we mourn, but we are not out." Roy also wrote for the center for inquiry, a U.S.-based nonprofit group, which said it was shocked and heartbroken by the attack.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's so sad is the way in which he was murdered was so brutal and so callous. For someone who is just so kind and so open minded. It's horrible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: News of the shocking attack was splashed across front pages of the Bangladesh Daily in Friday. And hundreds of protesters marched through the streets to the capitol to denounce Roy's murder. He is the second blogger to have been killed and the forthright to attack in the Muslim majority nation over the past ten years.

(INAUDIBLE), CNN, New Deli.

(END VIDEOTAPE)