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Angry Nemtsov Mourners March in Moscow; Growing Tensions Surround Netanyahu Speech; Venezuela Claims U.S. "Interference"; The Mysterious Shroud of Turin; Bourdain with Boris Nemtsov

Aired March 01, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: 7:00 Eastern and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM. A lot of news this Sunday evening.

And we begin with this, a key witness in a Russian murder mystery is being held under armed guard in Moscow. I'm talking about the female companion of Vladimir Putin critic Boris Nemtsov. The 23-year-old model was walking home with Nemtsov, more than 30 years her senior, after dinner this weekend when shots rang out as they crossed a bridge just yards from the Kremlin.

Nemtsov died moments later. The model reportedly called a friend and a political colleague of Nemtsov's and said several men pulled up in a car and one of them, she said, opened fire. Russian police are looking for a male suspect, someone they describe with short hair wearing blue jeans and a brown sweater. Authorities say the shooter likely used a Russian-made pistol.

Nemtsov was murdered less than two days before he was set to lead this rally that took place today -- a rally protesting a number of Putin's policies. Whatever the Moscow police investigation turns up, mourners who supported Boris Nemtsov have -- many of them already made up their minds.

Tens of thousands remember him in this rally that we saw play out on the streets of Moscow today. Some carried banners that branded Putin, quote, "the shame of Russia".

Our Matthew Chance was alongside those marchers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CRPD: Thousands of people, as you can see, have turned out to pay their respects to Boris Nemtsov. The chant here is that Russia will be free. That's what they're chanting as they march across this bridge. The bridge just in the shadow of the Kremlin where Boris Nemtsov was gunned down on Friday night.

What message do you think this killing has sent to Russia? To Russians?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wake up. Wake up.

CHANCE: Some of the messages on the signs have been very moving, indeed. One of them saying "propaganda kills". A reference to this idea that whoever ordered the killing of Boris Nemtsov, whoever pulled the trigger, it's the atmosphere in Russia that if you're opposed to the Kremlin, it means you're an enemy of the state. It is the context in which he was killed. That's what people are most concerned about here.

Do you believe that Mr. Putin, President Putin is responsible for this killing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe in this, and we believe that all current troubles the country is going through is because of his presidency.

CHANCE: Despite these big crowds and this enormous turnout the popularity of Vladimir Putin is extremely high -- latest opinion poll saying somewhere in the region of 86 percent. The big question though is will this change Russian politics or simply send the message that if you're opposed to the Kremlin, this is what could happen to you.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Matthew, thank you very much for that. My next guest interviewed Boris Nemtsov several times and most recently in 2013. With us again, "Foreign Policy" columnist Michael Weiss. Michael -- let me begin with this. I know that you spoke in Estonia with Nemtsov back two years ago and he said that Putin is part of a mafia. We all know how he felt about President Putin, but was it to the point where he was worried about retaliation because some are saying that this is clearly political and Putin is saying we have nothing to do with it.

MICHAEL WEISS, COLUMNIST, "FOREIGN POLICY": I think he felt a certain degree of impunity up until very recently. He's confided in people that he thought Putin might kill him -- this was in the last year or so. I've seen reports that he was being surveilled 24/7 by the Russian security forces.

It's also important to understand, being anti-war, meaning opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea is an extremely dangerous position. There are a lot of Russian opposition figures who try to straddle a line here.

Nemtsov was one of the most vociferous critics of Russia's policy in Ukraine. I mean it wasn't just that he was, you know, escorting a young Ukrainian companion. He'd been to Kiev several times. He'd met with Ukrainian officials and the Kremlin has cast him as a fifth columnist or as a traitor.

There are already kind of swirling accusations that he was on the payroll of Kiev and that he was essentially an enemy agent of the Russian Federation. So he really put himself out there.

And again, you know, I come back to this idea that the report he did on the Sochi Olympics, my Web site, "The Interpreter" translated it and named the names of all of the Russian oligarchs and the sort of state officials close to Putin who had essentially stolen all this money, this $50 billion that was put into the Winter Olympics in the subtropics.

So he was an enemy of many people.

HARLOW: Ok. So, outside of Putin and his regime, who were his other main enemies?

WEISS: Well, you had Yakunin, the head of Russian railways; Vladimir Potanin (ph). I mean the list goes on and on. Anybody who is a billionaire and who's allowed to retain their assets and their fortune in Russia, in other words, they're close to the regime had it in for this guy.

HARLOW: Right.

WEISS: He was famous for exposing corruption and showing the economic catastrophe in Russia. There's also -- I've seen accusations maybe radical Islamists did him in.

Look, I remember a report he did in the mid-2000s where he talked about the expenditure and graft spent on propping up thus warlord presidency of Ramzan Kadyrov in Chechnya. He called Chechnya our Palestine. And I don't see radical Islamists targeting Nemtsov before some other people in Russia.

HARLOW: Well, it's interesting. We had former CIA counterterrorism analyst Buck Sexton last night --

WEISS: Yes.

HARLOW: -- and he scoffed that those -- that even the Russian investigation is even looking into that.

WEISS: No. I mean look -- as I said earlier, Poppy, the Russian government, whatever -- whoever actually pulled the trigger here, they have already tainted this case. They have become an accomplice after the fact.

Putin said this is a provocation designed to destabilize Russia. I've just been reminded by the "New York Times" columnist -- correspondent Peter Baker that Putin said much the same about Anna Politkovskaya who was murdered in 2006 outside of her apartment.

So this is how justice is perceived in Russia. Somebody very high profile, public figure is gunned down, murdered in the most brutal fashion -- in this case, literally almost a stone's throw away from the Kremlin and then, you know, this pantomime of an investigation and justice is said to carried out and no one actually finds the real culprit.

HARLOW: Yes. But as we know in the streets of Moscow today and these protests largely honoring Nemtsov, certainly hasn't quieted tens of thousands of his supporters.

WEISS: Sure. HARLOW: Michael Weiss, thank you very much.

WEISS: My pleasure, Poppy.

HARLOW: Boris Nemtsov had a fascinating conversation with our Anthony Bourdain last year. This is footage you have never seen before. It has never aired. He talked about how he was increasingly concerned about how President Putin could be undermining the political system and a lot more.

We're going to show you this for the first time. A special report at 7:30 Eastern right here on CNN, "THE BOURDAIN INTERVIEW SPECIAL: BORIS NEMTSOV". That is coming up in just a little while.

Well, it is one of the most controversial head of state visits to this country in a long time causing new division across the nation's political spectrum. A sitting prime minister is here. Benjamin Netanyahu is a staunch U.S. ally. President Obama and him are not meeting though on this visit.

We're talking about this long anticipated visit of Benjamin Netanyahu. He was invited here by House Speaker John Boehner. You've got a lot of members of Congress going to hear him speak Tuesday morning, but other members of congress are not. They are basically boycotting his address.

I have Elise Labott, our global affairs correspondent on the line with me. She just traveled to Washington on the same plane as Netanyahu. Elise -- what happened in that 12-hour flight?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, we understand the prime minister was working on his speech really trying to sharpen the language. We understand that he's going to lay out what he knows or he believes is shaping up to be in this deal. He doesn't feel that Congress has been fully informed and so he wants to lay out the deal as he knows it. Explain why he feels it's a bad deal and urge Congress to try and put pressure on the Obama administration to push back that March 24th deadline. That's the deadline for a political framework agreement.

He's hoping that more talk, more discussion, more questioning about this agreement will urge the administration to not only push the deadline back, but to try and toughen their negotiating stance, Poppy.

HARLOW: Does he actually think that there is going to be a policy change by the Obama administration?

LABOTT: I don't think he thinks that what his speech is going to do is going to change the minds at the Obama administration. They've been pretty clear they think that a deal is in the best interest of the United States, of Israel, of the world. They feel that this is the best chance to put curbs on the Iranian nuclear program.

I think this prime minister has shown that he's willing to buck the White House and go around the White House and use the U.S. political system in any way that he can to get any results that he thinks he needs. And so I think what he's hoping is that he's going to convince congress to use the power of the pen to maybe pass -- threaten more sanctions of Iran if there's not a tougher deal. And I think that that's how he feels he can affect policy, not directly through obviously to talking with the Obama administration.

HARLOW: I do think it's interesting that right before he got on that flight yesterday Elise, he said that he wants to take this opportunity to say that "I respect the U.S. President" in this statement that he issues. I mean it sort of came like he was trying to mend fences at the last moment. What do you make of that?

LABOTT: I think he realized the politically fraught tone of this speech is damaging to the message that he wants to give which is about Iran. And there's been so much acrimony and so much attention to the relationship between him and the President, to the relationship between the U.S. and Israel.

And that's hurting him not only with his opposition but within the government who feels that this could be damaging to the U.S.-Israel relationship. So I think he wanted to soften the rhetoric, soften the tone, and keep the issue on Iran where he wants to keep it instead of the bickering between the U.S. and Israel.

And for the U.S. part, I think they're also softening their tone. You heard Secretary Kerry this morning talking about that phone call that he had with Prime Minister Netanyahu last night saying look this timing is not good with these negotiations coming up, but the Prime Minister is welcome in Washington.

HARLOW: Exactly -- hearing that from Secretary of State this morning. Thank you very much, Elise Labott. She'll be on the story for us on Monday as we cover his speech in front of the AIPAC conference. And then, of course, that address to Congress on Tuesday morning.

Coming up next we're going to talk about Venezuela -- the news out of there that broke last night now and the President of Venezuela accusing multiple Americans of being spies in his country, the already poor relations with the United States heading for a new low -- an update, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Venezuela's president saying that he is tired of the U.S. interfering with his country and their politics and he's taking action to prove it. A number of Americans arrested this week for espionage charges then later released, four American missionaries released Saturday, but it is unclear if they were held for the same reason.

Rosa Flores joins me from New York. She's been following this story. And Rosa, sort of the latest on this broke on our show last night when news came out of Venezuela that they had detained an American pilot. What do we know at this point?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, it's very controversial -- Poppy, as you know -- and Twitter has been lighting up; a lot of back and forth from both sides. But here's one of the things that I find fascinating. Venezuela is one of the top oil importers in the United States. We get a lot of their oil. So think about this, in the sandbox, in the business sandbox, the U.S. and Venezuela, they play the trade game, but you wouldn't know it by watching this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: Surrounded by a sea of revolutionary red in Caracas, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro turned up the heat on an already tense relationship with the United States.

Announcing on Saturday the arrest of several Americans for engaging in alleged espionage -- including a pilot of Latin American origin flying an American plane and carrying what he called all kinds of documents.

Four missionaries from North Dakota were detained in Venezuela for two days and released Saturday according to U.S. officials. It's unclear if these are the Americans President Maduro was referring to.

Government supporters cheered when the Venezuelan president went on to list sanctions on the U.S. including visa requirements for Americans, a downsized U.S. embassy in Caracas and a travel ban on some American officials including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Bob Menendez and Marco Rubio -- calling them terrorists in part for what he says are human rights violations by America in Iraq, Syria and Vietnam.

Florida representative Mario Diaz Balart, one of many voices firing back on Twitter saying "I've always wanted to travel to a corrupt country that is not a free democracy and now Castro's lap dog won't let me."

All this coming weeks after President Maduro accused the U.S. of plotting to overthrow his government, a month after the U.S. imposed visa restrictions on Venezuelan government officials over human rights and years of an outspoken opposition that in the last 13 months has turned into deadly protests leaving more than 40 dead on both sides.

As President Maduro begins closing the doors on the U.S., Venezuela struggles and its house divided.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: Now the U.S. has not responded to these new sanctions just yet, but Poppy imagine a room with both President Maduro and President Obama what the conversation would be there, you know? Guess what -- they might have that opportunity here coming up in about a month at the Summit of the Americas. So we're going to have to see.

HARLOW: Absolutely, we'll be watching. Rosa Flores, thank you very much. Good to have you on the program tonight.

And now let's turn to this. It is the religious mystery that has baffled scholars throughout the ages. Is this ancient cloth bearing the image of a crucified man the actual burial cloth of Jesus? It is one of the questions explored in a fascinating new series right here on CNN "FINDING JESUS: Faith, Fact, Forgery"; it premieres at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN tonight.

And our Tom Foreman delves into the debate over the Shroud of Turin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a once in a life time event. This spring in Italy, the Pope and thousands of others will view the biggest religious mystery on earth. Many believe the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus, miraculously imprinted with his image, and others call it a fake. Considering that no one knows what Jesus looked like or how the image was made, each side has a lot riding on the debate.

DAVID GIBSON, AUTHOR, "FINDING JESUS": They both want to solve the mystery of the Shroud of Turin.

FOREMAN: David Gibson wrote "Finding Jesus".

GIBSON: Nowhere in the New Testament, not for 200 or 300 years after Jesus do we get even a remote, physical description. If this is basically a photograph of Jesus, then that's really a game changer for history and for Christianity.

FOREMAN: Some of the greatest mysteries of the New Testament swirl around Jesus. How he fed the crowds, raised the dead, walked on water -- such stories can simultaneously inspire and perplex because beyond the Gospel so little hard evidence exists. For example, there are several accounts of his birth and death, but little is known about the in between.

CANDIDA MOSS, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: One of the really big questions, not just in the scholarly world, but in the world in general is was Jesus married? Or was he dating when he was a teenager? What was he doing for these 30-odd years?

FOREMAN: Ancient papyrus unveiled in 2012 supported the idea that some thought Jesus had a wife with arguments raised over its authenticity.

And in the Old Testament the mysteries deepen.

RUSSELL CROWE, ACTOR: A great flood is coming. We'll building a vessel to survive the storm.

FOREMAN: Noah's ark still inspires filmmakers and for centuries has spurned searches by those who want faith and facts.

GIBSON: Somehow finding the ark that Noah loaded all those animals on to is the holy grail of people who are trying to prove that the Bible is true.

FOREMAN: Yet despite centuries of searching and even some claims of success, not one proven trace of the ark has been recovered. The same is true for Pharaoh's Army. No swords or shields have been dredged from the bottom of the Red Sea where the Bible says scores perished. Where was the Garden of Eden? Did humans and dinosaurs coexist as some fundamentalists believe scientists dispute, are there missing books of the Bible?

GIBSON: People are arguing so intently about Christianity and what Jesus means. They're looking for knockdown evidence. They want to win the argument.

FOREMAN: And the biggest question, should any of this matter when Christianity is all about faith?

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Tom, thank you for that. Don't miss the new CNN Original Series, "FINDING JESUS: FACT, FAITH, FORGERY" tonight 9:00 p.m. Eastern only right here on CNN.

Coming up next, I will speak live with one of the last people to interview Boris Nemtsov before the anti-Putin activist was gunned down on the streets of Moscow. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. To Russia now where Vladimir Putin critic Boris Nemtsov was supposed to lead a big rally today, an opposition rally, in the middle of Moscow protesting Russia's government policies. But as you know he was murdered less than 48 hours ago and today's rally really turned into a big tribute for Nemtsov.

Tens of thousands of demonstrators marched through Moscow, some left flowers at the site where he was brutally assassinated just yards from the Kremlin. Putin has vowed to find and to punish Nemtsov's killer. Russian police are looking for a male suspect, someone they described as being short, and having short hair wearing blue jeans and a brown sweater. Authorities say the shooter likely used a Russian-made pistol.

All right, coming up in just five minutes we're going to have an entire special of this fascinating interview that our Anthony Bourdain did with Boris Nemtsov just a year ago. These are excerpts from the interview that have never aired on television before. You've never heard them. And you will hear them for the first time candidly from this man who was just assassinated talking about whether he feared for his life because of how he openly criticized his own government.

So before we get to that let me tell you a little bit more about Boris Nemtsov, who he was in his life. He was born in Sochi, Russia back in 1959. Science was his first passion. He was a young physicist. He protested plans to build a nuclear plant in the 1908's. He was elected into politics winning a seat to Russia's parliament when he was just 29 years old. Three years later he became the first governor of a prosperous area right outside of Moscow.

His political star was rising and it was rising fast. In 1998 then President Boris Yeltsin named him the first deputy prime minister. That drastically changed in 2003 when Putin took over. He was booted from government and he really embraced political opposition groups. He was arrested a number of times for openly criticizing the government.

In recent years he returned to his hometown of Sochi. He led a major study and a look into the funding of the 2014 Olympic Games. He blasted the Sochi Olympics saying most of the money was embezzled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS NEMTSOV, MURDERED OPPOSITION LEADER: The most expensive Olympic Games in the history of mankind. This is the most corrupted Olympic Games in the history of mankind. My estimation is they steal about $25, $30 billion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Boris Nemtsov spoke last year with our Anthony Bourdain, as I just mentioned and they discussed the threats against him and a lot more.

Coming up after the break, "THE BOURDAIN INTERVIEW SPECIAL, BORIS NEMTSOV".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Good evening, I'm Poppy Harlow.

Tonight an outspoken critic of Vladimir Putin in his own words. Boris Nemtsov, former deputy prime minister under Yeltsin, speaking before his murder to our Anthony Bourdain in footage you have never seen before.

It is an interview that is so candid we're devoting the last half hour of this program to it. Nemtsov was gunned down in the streets of Moscow just blocks from the Kremlin. Now his death is at the center of conspiracy theories and the big question being asked by many, who is behind the murder?

A key witness to the shootings, this woman, the Ukrainian model and Nemtsov's companion, 23-year-old Anna Duritskaya was walking with Nemtsov when someone opened fire. She was not injured. Take a look at this surveillance video. It comes to us from Russian television and it appears to have captured the two walking late on Friday night and that's when a snowplow moves along the street, blocks them from view and then you see someone running to what may be a getaway car right behind the plow.

Thousands of Russian citizens took to the streets of Moscow today to mourn the loss of Nemtsov, carrying signs reading "I am not afraid." And the Kremlin tonight, along with Russian President Vladimir Putin vowing to bring the killer to justice. We begin this evening in Moscow with an eerie premonition from Nemtsov himself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BORIS NEMTSOV: I am well known guy, and this is the safety because if something happens to me it will be scandal not only in Moscow City, but throughout the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Well, the interview you are about to see took place last year. It was in a familiar setting for Anthony Bourdain. It was around a dinner table at a restaurant, the hard part, finding one that would allow the interview to even take place.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST: We were supposed to be dining in another restaurant this evening and when they heard that you would be joining me they changed their mind and we were uninvited. Is -- should I be concerned about having dinner with you?

NEMTSOV: First of all, Tony, did you surprise from that kind of response?

BOURDAIN: Was I surprised?

NEMTSOV: Yes.

BOURDAIN: They were concerned that complications might arise.

NEMTSOV: Yes, problems.

BOURDAIN: There is precedent that critics of the government, critics of Putin, bad things seem to happen to them.

NEMTSOV: That's right -- well, yes. I am liberal democratic opposition leader in this country, and I believe that Russia has a chance to be free. Unfortunately, existing power represent like I say Russia of 19th century and not of 21st, but 19th century with the super power one guy with our balance of the power, and without real free of press and without real competition and without elections and without independent system is without law. This is Russia of a 19th century, but Russia needs something new to be successful.

BOURDAIN: And certainly, there is a hesitancy that the notion of doing business here, I would say, any number of potential entrepreneurs or investors have reason to be hesitant given the climate. Russia does not have a particularly good reputation for a transparent business environment, would that be fair to say?

NEMTSOV: You know, you are in the typical country of crony capitalism. This is absolutely typical, like Philippines, like Pakistan, like Middle Eastern countries and like some others, right? Absolutely typical. If you have good relationship with Putin and his people around, right? If you have good relationship with governor, it doesn't matter if you are in city, while you have a chance to raise money to be successful, you know, to buy real estate in the south of France or in Switzerland, to open accounts in Swiss bank, et cetera, but if something happens between you and Putin or you and the governor you will be in jail. It's very easy.

BOURDAIN: And they dismantle your --

NEMTSOV: Yes. Your company will disappear. Police raiders, they will block your business.

BOURDAIN: These are not -- this is not a subtle warning. It's pretty blunt, often, you know -- in cities in America generally when you had a -- the big man like a Mayor Daly or if you crossed the wrong people bad things would happen, but you could never directly say that one thing caused the other.

Here there's really no question. No one's being particularly shy about it. There is definitely a message if you mess with us this -- bad things are going to happen to you.

NEMTSOV: Yes. Everybody understands that. Everybody understands everything in this country. And there is a choice for rich people and for business people including owners of this restaurant, right? The choice is to be wealthy and to be -- you must be loyal in this point of view or if you want to independent, forget about business, forget about raising money. Just to fight. What we see throughout the world, if you rich, this is an opportunity for you to do something, right?

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: And this is your independence. Russia strongly defers if you are rich, you are a slave. If you are rich, you are very much dependent. You meet Alexander (INAUDIBLE), right? He was a very rich guy. He was. Now, he's not. But he made mistake from Putin's point of view, right? He has his own position. For example, on corruption, he lost everything and he became bankrupt and not because he's stupid and not because he is bad businessman, you know? But because this machine and the Putin machine worked against him and destroyed his business including banks and including his business in aircraft and everywhere.

Putin must remain main guy. If you are business, forget about politics. I am in politics, I am oligarch, not you. I am rich and I control Kremlin and you're (INAUDIBLE) that's it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Wow! Still to come, more of Anthony Bourdain's interview with Boris Nemtsov.

Ahead, claims of Olympic-size fraud at the games in Sochi, money, corruption and of course, location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOURDAIN: Why Sochi, first of all? I mean, why -- why are the winter Olympics being held in the warmest part of Russia? Why -- why -- why built on a -- on a shifting swamp?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: That's a good question. Our special report continues after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back. We're spending this half hour bringing you a conversation that our Anthony Bourdain had with Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov.

This is material that has never been seen before. Nemtsov, as you know, was gunned down in Moscow late Friday night within sight of the Kremlin walls, just 36 hours before he was to lead a large opposition rally.

Now the controversial Sochi Olympics and three words to start us off. Location, location, location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOURDAIN: Maybe the most extreme and visible example of how things seem to work here is the Sochi Olympics. Why Sochi, first of all? I mean, why -- why -- why are the winter Olympics being held in the warmest part of Russia?

NEMTSOV: That sounds right.

BOURDAIN: Why -- why built on a -- on a shifting swamp?

NEMTSOV: Thank you.

BOURDAIN: Wow.

You said that Sochi is a monstrous con -- assuming that it is a massive scam, couldn't -- couldn't that have been effected anywhere? I mean if you're looking to skim money off construction contracts and fatten a lot of bank accounts and siphon money often into various offshore accounts, wouldn't anywhere do? That would be less likely to attract criticism and scrutiny? Why Sochi?

NEMTSOV: Well, first, Tony, I was born in Sochi many years ago. I want to tell that Russia is very cold and very freeze, a country with a lot of ice and a lot of snow.

BOURDAIN: Which one would assume you need for winter Olympics.

NEMTSOV: Well, if you look at the map of Russian federation it's difficult to find the sport without snow and ice at all, but Putin did, he found. This is my native town of Sochi and he turned not only native town of Sochi, but he chose the warmest spot of Sochi. (INAUDIBLE) area. This is the -- huh? This is the warmest part of Sochi. It's the first point.

Second, there were not any public discussions about this choice. Zero. Because it's strictly forbidden to talk about Olympic games in critical point of view, and this is censorship on Putin TV. On CNN, yes. I can.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: But in Russian press it's strictly impossible. There will not be any discussion in the Parliament because in Putin, Russia parliament is not a place for discussion. Well, this is not my definition. This is the definition of the chairman of the Parliament. Parliament is not the place for it.

BOURDAIN: It seems like a pretty obvious question. I mean if we wanted to hold our winter Olympics in Miami presumably someone would say isn't it a little warm there, but even that discussion was --

NEMTSOV: Who will ask him this question?

BOURDAIN: OK.

NEMTSOV: If you have parliament, if you have a position in the parliament, if you have independent and popular media you can do it.

BOURDAIN: OK.

NEMTSOV: For example, I describe it in my book, right? Which was translated not long ago in America and I pressented this anti- corruption report and this is absolute personal Putin project. It's absolutely personal.

BOURDAIN: But why there?

NEMTSOV: Well, let me explain, there are two parts of Sochi. One is in the mountain which is across Napoleano, right and the another is sub tropical.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: First idea which was not stupid was to build the winter European-style winter resort in the mountain.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: But unfortunately, there are very small space in the mountain because of nature, because of god, very small space to build stadium and to build skating rink and to build everything and that's why when they decided -- not they, when Putin decided to organize Olympic games, architectures explained to him that Mr. President, we have no space for that, that's why we must use sub tropical area.

My proposal when I took part in the elections, mayoral elections of Sochi, it was in 2009, my proposal was to split Olympic games in several cities.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: To organize ski jumping, biathlon, skiing in the mountains of Sochi and the rest in other cities, not in the beach of Black Sea, right? Well, Putin said no, and it was absolutely idiotic and absolutely stupid decision. I explain why, because they spent billions of dollars, more than 50 billion dollars which is the most expensive games in the history of mankind, but nobody will use it after the games.

BOURDAIN: Why?

NEMTSOV: Because, you know, I was one in the city, and I know the tennis player (INAUDIBLE) from Sochi, and I know swimmers from Sochi. I know sailors from Sochi, I didn't know hockey player from Sochi, biathlon guy from Sochi and skiers from Sochi. Zero. That's why all of these stadiums, right? Nobody will use in the future.

BOURDAIN: And they've acknowledged this. The banks have written off -- whatever banks have basically written off any possibility of ever recouping.

NEMTSOV: This is state corporation and they have said they have no chance to pay money back because this is absolutely unprofitable. At the beginning the promise to replace stadiums from Sochi to the winter part of Russia, to the rest of Russia. Now when they calculated this and they recognize that it's easier and cheaper to build new one than to replace, that's why this is real fraud. The biggest (INAUDIBLE) in the history of Russia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Still to come, more of Anthony Bourdain's interview with Boris Nemtsov. Ahead, the problem of Putin and the west. More of our special report, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back. From prison to poisoning, calling out alleged corruption at the Kremlin comes at a hefty price.

A business tycoon recently spent 10 years behind bars after accusing Putin of corruption. Of course, you'll remember former Russian spy Alexander Litvinienko. He was poisoned with a deadly dose of radioactive polonium. He had accused state security services of organizing a coup to put Putin in power. His killer has never been caught.

Our interview now returns to Moscow. Boris Nemtsov has been arrested several times for speaking out against Putin's government. Here's why he says the west must wake up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEMTSOV: This is a country of corruption and I explain that corruption exist everywhere, including the states, right? Even in Scandinavian countries. But this is a problem for the United States, for Canada, for the United Kingdom, et cetera. For Putin, Russia, this is assist. This is not a problem.

We don't have such kind of problem. This is a system. That's what he built. That's why if you are corrupted but you are loyal and you sell for Kremlin, you are first of all, rich. Secondly, you are in a very safe position. That's it. This is a system.

And this is a problem on the other hand for not Putin, for him, he builds very comfortable system but for Russian people -- Russian people, very big problem because what does means corruption? Money from the budget disappears. He builds super cost Olympic games without any future for the objects. No discussion in the society at all. Big difference between poor and rich, much bigger than in the States.

That's why this is very uncomfortable country for everybody.

BOURDAIN: There seems to be very little appetite in the west from -- western government seems to have very little appetite for criticizing Putin or calling for change or they seem pretty happy with the way things are. Do what do you attribute this compliance or complacency?

NEMTSOV: That's why American administration must be interested in corruption inside Russia. They are interested about securities like you mentioned. The case -- a terrible case (INAUDIBLE) right. Of course, this is serious. Well, the problem is that general security problem for Russian people and for the rest of the world is that we built very unstable and very unpredictable system. A system when everything depends on one person is very unstable. Let's mentioned that, for example, Putin break his (INAUDIBLE) I don't know (INAUDIBLE) what happens to this country?

Nuclear power. Member of the United Nation council security, right? What happens to this country without balance reserve, without understanding the next (INAUDIBLE). That's why this is real, very unstable and unpredictable country. This is the fourth.

Well, the last point, Putin, he has what I say criminal mentality. Obama is not. This is huge problem for Obama. For example, when Obama decided to forget about (INAUDIBLE). This is new American Act against corruption and (INAUDIBLE) inside Russia. According to this act, persons who are responsible for murders or for corruption have a chance to be burned.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: And their accounts must be arrested and property must be arrested throughout (INAUDIBLE) United States and in the western world. This is (INAUDIBLE).

Putin is very much nervous about this act and Obama, last year, in December, decided to stop this act but decided to do not add your names in this list.

BOURDAIN: Right.

NEMTSOV: Well, in the White House people believed that if we behave in such a way, right, Putin becomes very happy and help Obama, I don't know, in Iran or in Syria or Iraq. Nothing happened. American rhetorics and image America a (INAUDIBLE) country devil empire right? This image still exists on TV, conflicts always exists. Of course, the cold war will never happened because of differences or potential of the countries. American economy is ahead of Russia seven times. That's why (INAUDIBLE) it's impossible in the economic point of view, not political.

That's why -- but I think that (INAUDIBLE) is important for everybody, including for the states. If you want to protect security, you must protect your (INAUDIBLE). If you forget about that, finally, he will do something else. Not only polonium in London but something more than polonium.

BOURDAIN: He seems to feel that he can pretty much get away with anything he wants.

NEMTSOV: Not everything.

BOURDAIN: Thank you.

NEMTSOV: Thank you. Thank you very much. Welcome to new russia.

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HARLOW: Boris Nemtsov was gunned down on Friday night. Today's rally in Moscow was supposed to be led by him, had he lived two more days to see it.

Thank you for joining us this evening. "ANTHONY BOURDAIN PARTS UNKNOWN: JERUSALEM," is now.