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Justice Department Report; Tsarnaev Trial; Hillary Clinton E- mails

Aired March 04, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon, I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Brooke Baldwin.

Two major developments out of Ferguson, Missouri, are breaking right now. The Justice Department has just announced that former police officer, Darren Wilson, will not be federally charged for killing unarmed teenager Michael Brown. And here's why. Officials say, and I quote, "there is no evidence upon which prosecutors can rely to disprove Wilson's stated subjective belief that he feared for his safety," end quote.

Now also minutes ago, the Department of Justice released a 105-page report that officially confirmed what protesters in Ferguson, Missouri, have been claiming for months, that long before Brown's killing, Ferguson police targeted African-Americans. Now, the pages detail systemic racial discrimination, not just in the force but also in the courts. And the report includes account after account of what's described as, quote, "suspicionless, legally unsupportable stops."

I want to give you an example. There was one man taken into custody for giving police his name as Mike instead of Michael. CNN justice reporter Evan Perez has been scouring this report. He broke the news yesterday about these DOJ findings and he's joining me live.

Evan, what else is in this report?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Ana, these findings are really stark when you hear all the complaints when you and I were in Ferguson, from people and they describe the encounters they had with police, and then you see what the Justice Department is reporting here, it really does back up what a lot of those people were talking about.

And I'll give you the example you gave of this person who gave his name as Mike, and the police officer charged him with lying because his name was Michael and because he provided an address that was different from the driver's license that he had. In the end, this man lost his job with a federal government contractor as a result of the charges that were brought by this officer, which were without any basis whatsoever, according to the Justice Department. That's just one example that's provided in these 105 pages.

Another example from 2013, an African-American man was in a parking lot as an officer was trying to go make an arrest. He decides to throw this guy in the back of his patrol car, handcuff him, run him through the system. It turns out that guy was the landlord who, in the end, had to let him into the apartment for the arrest that the officer was trying to make. He had no reason to detain this man, and, again, this is something that the Department of Justice investigation found was a real common problem with this Ferguson Police Department.

There's also the problem of racist e-mails that were being sent by leadership, supervisors, of the Ferguson Police Department, including we're told that -- we were told in a briefing this afternoon, Ana, by some people who were still there, who were involved in negotiating with the Justice Department for some of these reforms. So in other words, people who are still at the Ferguson Department in -- Police Department, in leadership roles, we're sending some of these racist jokes. And I'll read you just one quick one. In 2011, one e-mail that was being sent around depicted President Obama as a chimpanzee. And in another one, in 2011, someone shared a photo of bare-chested women dancing, apparently in Africa, and the caption read, "Michelle Obama's high school reunion." These are the types of things that the Justice Department said it uncovered in this month's long investigation.

CABRERA: So disturbing, Evan. And you said, people in leadership positions currently were taking part in this. Do you have more details? Was it the police chief? Was it somebody who was just a supervisor? Do we know more?

PEREZ: They won't identify -- the Justice Department will not identify who exactly was sending these e-mails. We do know that they were people in leadership positions. And, again, these are people who are still there and are helping the department - therein responsible for putting forward some reforms that the Justice Department is now going to try to force on the department.

CABRERA: Wow. Evan Perez, thank you so much.

So, what will the city of Ferguson do now? Well, listen to what Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson told me back in September. This was during our exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF TOM JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE: It's never been the intention of the Ferguson Police Department, or of any police department that I know of, to intentionally target individuals because of race. If there is that happening, it's a crime and it needs to be addressed.

CABRERA: Are you aware of at least some of the vocal people, protesters included, who would like to see you removed from your position?

JACKSON: Sure, I have and I've talked to a lot of those people and I've talked to a lot of people who have initially called for that, and then have changed their mind after having meetings and discussions about moving forward. Realistically, I'm going to stay here and see this through.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CABRERA: Let's bring in CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin, who's with me, along with Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal.

Senator, I want to start with you and get your reaction as we've just reported on some of these ridiculous arrests that the Justice Department report details. Your thoughts?

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, MISSOURI STATE SENATE: Well, I have to tell you that I am absolutely appalled in some of the things that I have been reading in part. I'm not surprised by the number of stops and the percentages of individuals who have been stopped specifically because of their race. There are cases where there are individuals who are walking on streets. Ninety-three percent of the time, those people have been either ticketed or arrested. And that's no (ph) surprise that came out of these reports is the fact that the second revenue, the second highest revenue source comes from arrestees and ticketing. That was a surprise. That is second to sales tax revenue.

I am also shocked at the e-mails which you cited earlier in this broadcast. And the one that is really appalling to me is the one dealing with an individual who got a check for $5,000 to receive a termination, a pregnancy termination, and the punchline to the joke was, it came from Crimestoppers. Obviously there has been racial intimidation, harassment and institutional bias practice in exercise every single day in the Ferguson Police Department.

We are outraged here in the state of Missouri that this could even go on. But I am also outraged because not only the mayor of Ferguson, but also the chief of police, they have both stated publicly that there has not been a racial issue. Now that we are reading over 100 pages of a report from the Department of Justice, we now know that they have supported a racist system and we are not going to allow this to continue to happen in the state of Missouri.

CABRERA: In fact, when you talk about the racism there, what we're hearing from the Department of Justice is this wasn't like accidental racism or accidental discrimination that just happened. It was intentional, according to the Department of Justice. It said the Ferguson's harmful court and police practices are due at least in part to intentional discrimination as demonstrated by direct evidence of the racial bias and stereotyping of African-Americans.

Let's turn to Sunny Hostin. I know you've been in close touch with Michael Brown's family, through their attorney, Benjamin Crump, and you have a statement that they just released.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. Yes. Benjamin Crump just texted me a statement from Leslie McSpadden and Michael Brown Sr. And they say, "today we received disappointing news from the Department of Justice that the killer of our son wouldn't be held accountable for his actions. While we are saddened by this decision, we are encouraged that the Department of Justice will hold the Ferguson Police Department accountable for the pattern of racial bias and profiling. And ultimately they say, "it is our hope that through this action true change will come not only in Ferguson, but around the country. And if that change happens, our son's death will not have been in vain." And so this report and the decision not to file charges -- civil rights charges against Officer Wilson, while saddening to them, certainly I think they are encouraged by the fact that the Justice Department did find that this pervasive racism does exist. And I haven't poured through all 105 pages because, quite frankly, it's so extensive.

CABRERA: And dense.

HOSTIN: And it's dense and it's so scathing. But I think what is interesting is that they say that city officials have frequently asserted that the harsh and disparate results of the law enforcement system don't indicate problems with policing, but rather reflect a pervasive lack of personal responsibility among certain segments of the community. And so we are still seeing that even to Justice Department investigators that city officials denied this existence. And so I suspect that while the Justice Department does sort of ask and outline some things that can change, I suspect that we are going to see a change in leadership, not only from the police department, but in the court system and probably at the prosecutor's office as well.

CABRERA: Maria Chappelle-Nadal, would that make the difference? We know we've got Police Chief Tom Jackson all along has been adamant he's not going to step down. Would you like to see him removed?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, he should have been removed in August. The rollout of this entire investigation has been troubling to so many people, not only in the state of Missouri but across the country from the very beginning. And so right now we don't have any faith in Chief Jackson. I know he's made some efforts. But on his watch, he allowed for this institutional racism to go on. He has said again and again that he's going to stay, but how is a community that has been harassed by his own police department, people that he oversees every single day, how is this community and the region going to have any faith in anything that he says?

He is now tarnished. With this report that we're going through, page by page, he is a tarnished man. We have no confidence in him. And I'm telling you right now, I think we don't have a lot of confidence in the mayor right now because he, too, stated that there was not a racial problem. And, again, on his watch, he has allowed for the systematic racism to continue in Ferguson. And it's - it's just not acceptable and we need to dismantle, disband this municipal police department as soon as possible.

CABRERA: Maria Chappelle-Nadal, Sunny Hostin, we'll have to leave it here for now, but we're going to continue the conversation through the next couple of hours as we are awaiting a statement from the Department of Justice sometime in the next hour. We are also expecting city leader there in Ferguson to make some kind of statement as well this afternoon. So stay with us, ladies.

Up next, opening statements in the Boston bombing trial and the defense lawyer began by pointing her finger at her own client. Hear what the defense lawyer had to say. Plus, if Hillary Clinton used private e-mails as secretary of state,

just how safe were her secrets?

And, foreign women paying as much as $50,000 to have babies right here in America, and the feds busting dozens of these so-called maternity hotels. Hear what happened inside.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: It was him. He must be held accountable. Those assertions made during opening statements today in what may be the biggest trial in Boston's history. And they came from the defense. Now, 21-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is facing 30 charges in connection with the deadly 2013 bombings near the finish line of the Boston marathon. If convicted, he could get the death penalty. He's accused of masterminding, along with his older brother, this attack that killed three people and left nearly 300 others maimed or injured. He is also charged in the killing of an MIT police officer.

Now, in court today, prosecutors vividly describe the horror of that day and they say Tsarnaev and his brother believed they were, quote, "soldiers in a holy war" and that they intended to kill as many people as possible. But the younger Tsarnaev's attorney says the defendant was brainwashed by his older brother, who, of course, is now dead. He was killed in a shoot-out with a police officer.

Joining me now is criminal defense attorney and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson. Also with us on the phone, author Masha Gessen, who wrote a book about the Tsarnaev brothers titled "The Brothers: The Road to an American Tragedy." And she was inside the court today.

So let's start with you, Masha, what was going on inside there? What was it like?

MASHA GESSEN, AUTHOR, "THE BROTHERS: THE ROAD TO AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY" (via telephone): Well, the biggest surprise of what happened today was that the defense basically said they're not going to try to prove that he is not guilt. In fact, Judy Clarke, who's the famous death penalty lawyer, who came from California to represent Tsarnaev here, part of his large defense team, said it puts -- it is not a question of whether it was him.

It was him. The question is really if he's a monster that the defense is - that the prosecution has painted him as, or was he led on by his brother. So they're trying to paint a portrait of the younger Tsarnaev as someone who was very depressed, who was in danger of flunking out of school, had been essentially abandoned by his parents, who had moved back to Russia, who had been left in the hands of the monstrous older brother and was led along with him. (INAUDIBLE) --

CABRERA: How was Tsarnaev in court? What was his demeanor like?

GESSEN: He looked (INAUDIBLE) indifferent. He was very fidgeting at the beginning. You know, we've been seeing Tsarnaev for the last month, he's been present every day of jury selection, and he basically seemed so far to have two moods (ph), one of joking with his attorneys and acting sort of fidgety, and one is looking almost affable. So that's the - but that essentially they're (INAUDIBLE) that he projected today as well. He seems to be trying to avoid eye contact with the jurors.

CABRERA: Joey, I want to ask you about this strategy that the defense has already put out there.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.

CABRERA: Basically admit he was involved, admit he did it, but say that he was sort of brainwashed by his brother.

JACKSON: Absolutely. A big development. Now, here's the bottom line. The defense has won goal here and one goal only, Ana, that is to spare and save his life. This is a -- beyond a tragedy of major proportion, a specific act of terror upon an entire community that affects so many people. And so, as you know, the defense motioned to get that case out of there. Four times they were denied. That jury ultimately will convict. They know that.

But then the next phase of the trial is, do you deserve to die? Who's the real monster here? The monster's not me. Why? It can't be me because I was influenced by my older brother. He's the guy who was the mastermind. He put me up to this. He radicalized me and he's the reason that I was pulled into something that I ordinarily wouldn't be pulled into. And if the jury concludes that he is, Tsarnaev, is not the monster, right, that the jury could otherwise find him to be, then perhaps they spare his life. However --

CABRERA: Which could be very challenging here in Massachusetts.

JACKSON: Very challenging.

CABRERA: We know that they haven't had a death penalty I guess conviction in the past three decades.

JACKSON: Right. You know, and here's the point with that, though, Ana. A very significant point. Now, we know the state of Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, but we know since this is in federal court, there is a death penalty.

Now, the big difference, though, although the state in and of itself, people may be opposed to it, if you're impaneled on that jury, you have looked those lawyers in the eye and you have looked that judge in the eye and you have said, in the event that I find evidence that is compelling enough to move me to the death penalty, I promise you that I will impose it. I'm not saying before I hear evidence that I will, but if that evidence convinces me that the death penalty is appropriate here, guess what, that's what this defendant is getting.

And that's what the polls don't account for. Most people who are against the death penalty under all circumstances, Ana, they're not on that jury. Those who are on that jury have committed that they will apply it.

CABRERA: (INAUDIBLE). And we know there were 256 people who were interviewed as part of the

jury selection process.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

CABRERA: Joey Jackson, Masha Gessen, thanks to both of you for joining me.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ana.

Up next, did Hillary Clinton go to extreme lengths to keep her e-mails private? New questions are emerging as we learned Clinton reportedly also used a private non-governmental server that was registered to her family home. And did that put sensitive information at risk? We'll talk with an expert.

Also, Russian President Vladimir Putin making his first public comments since the death of his outspoken critic in the shadows of the Kremlin. But is a deadly pattern emerging among Putin's political opponents? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: An aide to Hillary Clinton swears there is nothing, quote, "nefarious" about Clinton using a personal e-mail account while she was secretary of state. But nefarious is one thing. Safe and secure is another. And the Associated Press reports Clinton's e-mail account, hdr22@clintonemail.com, can be traced back to her own private server in her home. And now some are asking whether Clinton risked exposing state secrets when she decided against using a government e-mail account.

Dana Wollman is managing editor at Engadget.

And, Dana, thanks for joining me.

I think a lot of us assume that personal is always less safe than a private or a government account. Is that always the case?

DANA WOLLMAN, MANAGING EDITOR, ENGADGET: Not necessarily. She may have -- Hillary Clinton may have had some security benefits in choosing her own server, but there are really some drawbacks to having a homemade e-mail server like the kind she had.

For instance, had she gone with an e-mail server that was government owned, it would have been located in a facility that was protected and guarded not just against physical intruders but also fires, floods, any kind of outages. There would have absolutely been off-site backup for that data. So there would have definitely been some benefits had she gone with the federal e-mail server.

CABRERA: Really great point. So just how risky was it for her to just go with this personal e-mail account?

WOLLMAN: Definitely some risks involved. I mean, obviously she is - her own home is surrounded by a security detail, so at least that threat was pretty low, the threat of, let's say, people hacking in and physically interfering with the servers. But a lot of things are made unclear, precisely because her server was so private. So, for instance, we don't know if her data was backed up somewhere else and duplicated somewhere else. And we also don't know what kind of ongoing monitoring she had for viruses or hackers. Those things would all be a given had she gone through a federal e-mail server. But because her e- mail server is homegrown and private, it's really unclear to us as outsiders what precautions she may have been taking.

CABRERA: Well, and it opens up a can of worms, really, in terms of motivation. We don't really know -- Hillary Clinton's camp has not answered why -

WOLLMAN: They have not. Yes.

CABRERA: She is just going with her personal versus having even one of both, one of each, and using both of them at different times as another example which some of her predecessors have done. But other than trying not to disclose something, whatever that may be, is there an advantage or a reason that somebody might choose to just go with the personal versus a government account?

WOLLMAN: Well, I mean, I think, unfortunately, an effort to possibly have control over which e-mails are handed over is probably the likeliest explanation, and that's just me speculating. Obviously the camp -- Hillary Clinton's camp has not commented on this. Perhaps, too, it's - again, it's unclear if they were duplicating these e-mails elsewhere, but if - if she did delete them and they were gone for good, that could be convenient. But, again, it's really hard to speculate on why especially if the Clinton camp isn't giving any clues or commenting.

CABRERA: Right. Right. Dana Wollman, thank you so much.

WOLLMAN: Thanks for having me.

CABRERA: It's worth noting that we have reached out to Hillary Clinton and to her representatives and are asking those questions that we're discussing and we just have not received the answers yet, but we will keep you all posted.

Up next, the father of the man known as "Jihadi John" is now talking and he reportedly in the past called his son an animal, a terrorist, even a dog, but now it seems he's walking some of those comments back.

Plus, federal agents making a huge bust in the so-called maternity tourism ring. That's when moms from a foreign country pay big bucks to give birth to their kids on U.S. soil, automatically making them citizens. Hear what happened inside.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)