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Former Duke Player Accused of Sex Assault; Should Ferguson Police Chief Resign?; Were Jesus and John the Baptist Related?

Aired March 05, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Duke's men's basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski faced the media last night after his team's win against Wake Forest. But not all of the questions sent Coach K's way were about the game.

There's a report that a former Duke basketball player has been accused of sexual assault and according to Duke's student newspaper, "The Chronicle", the team knew about it months before kicking him off the team.

CNN sports correspondent Andy Scholes joins me now with more. Good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning -- Carol.

Now, just to be clear, no complaint has been filed against the former player, Rasheed Sulaimon with Duke's office of student conduct or the Durham Police Department. The report that he allegedly sexually assaulted two women comes solely from the reporting done by Duke's student newspaper "The Chronicle".

In their reporting, they claimed two different female students told other students at two different diversity retreats that Sulaimon had sexually assaulted them. According to "The Chronicle" citing sources close to the accusers, the two did not want to pursue school or legal action against Sulaimon because they feared backlash from the fan base.

"The Chronicle" also says that Duke's coach Mike Krzyzewski and the athletics department became aware of the allegations in March of 2014. Sulaimon was not dismissed from the team until January 29th of this year. And the reason for his dismissal according to Krzyzewski was that he repeatedly struggled to meet the necessary obligations.

Now, Sulaimon was the first player that Krzyzewski had ever kicked off of a team at Duke. Coach K, he was asked about "The Chronicle's" report after last night's game against Wake Forest. He wouldn't answer any questions but here is his exchange with CNN sports producer Dan Moriarty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE KRZYZEWSKI, COACH, DUKE'S MEN'S BASKETBALL: I'm not going to be able to answer any question about that. It's not bad blood -- it's I'm not going to be able to answer.

(CROSSTALK)

KRZYZEWSKI: The FERPA. Do you know what it is?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do.

KRZYZEWSKI: Ok. Then I won't even ask the question if you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Now FERPA is the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act which is a federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. Coach K saying he can't answer questions because he would violate that law. Duke did release a statement on the matter saying "Any allegation of student misconduct that is brought to the attention of our staff and coaches is immediately referred to the Office of Student Conduct and Student Affairs which has responsibility for upholding the Duke code of conduct. The athletics department does not investigate or adjudicate matters of student conduct and cooperates completely in the process."

And Carol -- Sulaimon has not spoken publicly about any of these allegations and CNN has not been able to contact him.

COSTELLO: All right. But I'm sure you'll keep trying. Andy Scholes reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

As Andy mentioned, the two women cited in this report from the Duke student newspaper "The Chronicle" allegedly stayed silent due to fears of backlash from Duke basketball fans. The paper citing sources close to the accusers and that fierce loyalty of sports fans has been on display at other schools caught up in controversial incidents involving Florida State and also Penn State.

CNN's Sara Ganim joins me now. You reported extensively about that horrible Penn State controversy -- actually criminal action surrounding Jerry Sandusky. What was that like? Did you suffer backlash because of your reporting?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of people at Penn State did. A lot of the victims that came forward to this day are still being harassed and believe it, it's not just Penn State. It's not just a very real fear that I do believe those women at Duke feel.

We saw that at Notre Dame when a St. Mary's woman came forward and made an allegation against a Notre Dame football player several years ago. I've seen at Florida State as the most recent example, where these so-called fans and I say so-called for a reason, because they are just vicious. They bully and harass and taunt women who have been -- who have said that they were victims of sexual assault and they do it all in the name of being a fan. It's absolutely -- it's just outrageous behavior. COSTELLO: When you say bullying, what kind of bullying?

GANIM: For example, the accuser at Florida State, Jameis Winston's accuser -- we know he hasn't been charged. He probably will never be charged. But she says that she's a victim. And before there was any decision ever made on his guilt or innocence, she would walk through school, through campus and people would scream at her, "you whore", call her a cleat chaser.

She had to leave school because of the threats. They threatened to burn down her sorority house. I mean this is the kind of behavior and it goes beyond, as you mentioned, the victims, you know. We've seen other witnesses, for example, involved in the Penn State case -- their names, their addresses, their wives' names and addresses, their kids' schools have been posted to Internet sites with the encouragement.

COSTELLO: Even Penn State where the victims were children?

GANIM: Where they were children -- and where there was a man who was convicted in a criminal court, convicted of assaulting them. There are still groups of people who encourage others to go out and harass them, believing that they are lying.

The way -- it's all in the name of the team, all in the name of exonerating people who they just idolize. And I've seen this over and over and over again, year after year now, where there's this phenomenon where we'd just idolize these sports icons, make them into gods.

We put them on a pedestal and then when they make a mistake like humans do, they make mistakes, we fall apart. Like this whole idea that we worship these people, who we don't know, we've never met and never talked to them. It's not like they're your grandfather or grandmother and you know them personally.

I mean it's just the idea of them and we worship these people. It's so unhealthy.

COSTELLO: I want to ask you what can be done about it, but I don't think there's much that can be.

GANIM: I don't know -- Carol. I wish I knew. I read that line in the Duke "Chronicle" where the women said they feared -- they actually cited Florida State. They said we feared, the source close to them said that they feared the backlash because of what happened with the Jameis Winston case. And I immediately knew, you know, that's not fake, that's not made up. That's a very real fear.

There's already a fear for women coming forward when they've been sexually assaulted when it doesn't involve an athlete. And then you've got this entire university that's going to stand behind this person just because they suit up on Saturday and play football and the colors -- they happen to wear the same colors that the school promotes.

COSTELLO: Very well described, Sara Ganim. Thank you so much for being with me.

GANIM: Thanks Carol.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Justice Department formally closes its investigation of Ferguson police and it isn't pretty. We'll be back to talk about that next.

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COSTELLO: Just minutes from now at the top of the hour, we'll hear from the parents of Michael Brown, the unarmed teenager shot and killed in Ferguson, Missouri. They'll respond to the news that federal investigators have cleared the man who fired the shots, Police Officer Darren Wilson. They've already said though their son's death is not in vain if Ferguson confronts the racism exposed in the Justice Department report.

Hear them for yourself. We'll have live coverage of Michael Brown's parents and their reaction to that Justice Department report -- that's minutes from now 11:00 a.m. Eastern.

Joining me now to talk about the Justice report's findings, police chief of Cincinnati Jeffrey Blackwell. Welcome back, Chief.

JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CINCINNATI POLICE CHIEF: Good morning, Carol. How are you?

COSTELLO: I'm good. I just wanted to get your general reaction to this report because it is scathing.

BLACKWELL: You know, it is, and I don't think it's nick that most of us in the law enforcement community probably did not expect given the civil unrest and all of the lack of community engagement that has gone on in that area for quite some time. But those numbers are quite amazing to be that high.

COSTELLO: They're in the 80s. If you can see them, they're right beside you. Like this idea that the Ferguson police department used the African-American community to raise money so the community wouldn't have to raise taxes. Does this go on across the country?

BLACKWELL: You know, I hope not, it certainly does not go on here in Cincinnati. I would venture to say that in most agencies throughout the United States. They are doing things the right way, the honorable way. They are serving their communities and protecting with an emphasis not only on enforcement, Carol, but also on engagement.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about engagement, because the mayor of Ferguson says that, you know, city officials and police officials want to reach out to the African-American community, but is it too late?

BLACKWELL: You know, I don't think it's ever too late, but they need to start. And realistically, I would hope that they would have already started, not waiting on the report to come out, but they would have already started to mend the fractures and the disconnect that exists in that community. You would hope that the mayor and the chief and others would display the amount of leadership necessary to get that department going in the right direction. It's going to take a lot of work, but they have to start and hopefully they've already started to do some of the things the right way.

COSTELLO: They said that they have but the police chief has yet to say anything about this report.

BLACKWELL: You know, when I spoke with you a long time ago about the situation there, that seems to be the prevailing theme, the lack of transparency and the lack of accountability. And until those things are addressed, the people of Ferguson and the people throughout communities like Ferguson all across this country will always have a mistrust of police officers until the authenticity and the transparency improves and the community engagement becomes the primary focus of law enforcement throughout the nation.

COSTELLO: There are many calls for this police chief to step down. Do you think the Ferguson police chief should step down?

BLACKWELL: Carol -- I won't comment there. It's not my place to comment on another police chief as to whether or not he should relinquish his power and give up his agency. They need to fix themselves, though. They need to change. They need to start focusing on the people of their community not in an enforcement capacity, but in a community engagement capacity.

You know, in Cincinnati here, we just had a recruit class graduate just this week. And their first week is not in the cruisers, it's not chasing bad guys. Their first week is a week of service. We call it immersion week here. They're feeding the homeless and serving young kids in elementary schools and reading in the after school programs here in this community and engaged with the elderly.

The people of Cincinnati that need us the most, the people here that have the most lack -- our officers are getting to know from their first days on the streets of Cincinnati. We hope that's a life lesson that stays with them their entire careers.

COSTELLO: That sounds absolutely terrific. But just going back to Ferguson for a bit, only one person has been fired.

BLACKWELL: Ok.

COSTELLO: Two people are now suspended -- you know after this. There was also a series of horribly racist e-mails that went out, you know, talking about President Obama and the first lady. But there have been no other firings. It just seems that there are no repercussions for what's happened inside that police department.

BLACKWELL: Well, I really think there will be repercussions. I think when the DOJ comes knocking, everyone in the community knows that they mean business and their findings will be taken seriously. So I would expect that there will be some change coming pretty swiftly from the Department of Justice and the cops' office. COSTELLO: Also some people are suggesting that the entire Ferguson

police department be dissolved. Is something like that even possible?

BLACKWELL: It sure is, and it can be made possible if St. Louis County or the city or some other agency would step in and take over the service. I'm not advocating that. I'm not saying that that needs to happen, but if they cannot pivot from where they are now, if they cannot recreate themselves into a better agency, to an agency committed to service for the folks there in Ferguson, you know, then someone else should take over and do the job.

COSTELLO: Chief Blackwell, thank you so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Stay with us. In just a few minutes we'll have live coverage of Michael Brown's parents and their reaction to this Justice Department report.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, new technology could bring new answers for Christians. That's coming next.

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COSTELLO: Checking some other top stories for you at 50 minutes past the hour, justices are once again divided over Obamacare. Congress is arguing over a clause of the Affordable Care Act concerning eligibility for subsidies. If the court rules against the Obama administration, more than five million people will no longer be eligible for the subsidies, potentially dealing the law a fatal blow.

A second Los Angeles hospital is reporting an outbreak of drug resistant superbug infections. This time it's Cedar Sinai Medical Center. Four patients were infected during procedures using a fiber optic scope. Now the FDA is updating a safety alert fro those scopes, urging medical providers to tell patients about the risk.

A wintry (inaudible) is impacting more than 90 million people. This is a live look at Frederick, Maryland to the south. This storm has shut down our nation's capital. And in Kentucky, the governor has declared a state of emergency.

CNN's original series "FINDING JESUS" shows us the latest scientific techniques and research being used to learn about Jesus. Sunday's episode looks at what Jesus may have left behind or what Christians call relics. The search leads scientists to a bone that could prove that Jesus and John the Baptist were related. Listen

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 2,000 years on, the possibility that john and Jesus are related has triggered fresh investigation into the study of John the Baptist's relics. With their ongoing quest to trace how his relics were scattered, British researchers Tom Higham (ph) and George Kazan (ph) have come to the Nelson Atkins Museum in Kansas City, Missouri. They want to analyze an ancient treasure reputed to be the finger of John the Baptist. Could it come from the same individual as the Bulgaria find.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is (inaudible) containing the relic, it's gilt-silvered (ph), dates from about the year 1,400.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's really exciting about the Kansas Baptist relic is that for the first time we're going to be able to compare the radio carbon data of this particular relic with the one we've already obtained from Bulgaria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bone has been identified as a human bone coming from a hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's interesting about the fingers, it's part of a medieval treasure, the gulf (ph) treasure that has connections with the German, Lord Henry the Lion. We know that he visited Constantinople and requested relics. But it's possible that it may have had origins much older than that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Interesting -- right? Joining me now to talk about this, Father Jim Martin. He's written about John the Baptist in his book "Jesus, A pilgrimage". Welcome, Father.

FATHER JIM MARTIN, AUTHOR, "JESUS, A PILGRIMAGE": Good to be here.

COSTELLO: This is really intriguing.

MARTIN: It is. It is.

COSTELLO: It seems impossible to prove though.

MARTIN: It probably is impossible to prove. Now, the gospels say Jesus' mother, Mary and John the Baptist's mother, Elizabeth were cousins or kinswomen -- I think they say, so that's kind of part of scripture. But, you know, we don't have any DNA relics of Jesus, and since he didn't have kids, we don't have any of his, you know, progeny either.

COSTELLO: But they talked about this bone. And aren't they making -- I mean they're guessing about this bone, right?

MARTIN: Well, the radio carbon dating shows that it goes back to the time of Jesus, you know, the first century. But once again, we don't have any descendants of John the Baptist or Jesus, so it's just kind of hard to determine. Now, you know, a lot of these things that turn out to be -- that are traditional turn out to have some basis in truth. But this one I think is going to be difficult to prove.

COSTELLO: But you've written a lot about John the Baptist and a lot about Jesus. So your best guess?

MARTIN: My best guess is probably not. But by the same token, the general theological category is you never know. COSTELLO: Let's talk about this documentary itself because The first

part of the documentary got huge ratings, people were very interested. Why do you think so many people are so interested in watching documentaries about Jesus?

MARTIN: Well, there's a natural interest in Jesus certainly for Christians. I think there -- it is really one way that God draws us to Jesus by making us interested -- right. I mean it's a kind of call to sort of find out more about Jesus.

But for even people who aren't believers or atheists, the man himself is interesting. And they're curious about whether or not we can know much about his existence and how much we can know. I think both for Christians and non-believers he's of interest.

COSTELLO: What's really interesting, and there's so many theories about Jesus but no real facts yet people are still interested as you say because we hear Jesus might have been married to Mary Magdalene. But who knows.

MARTIN: Well, that's probably unlikely. We do have a lot of facts about Jesus, there's something called the historical Jesus scholars who talk about what we can know about his life and times and places where he's mentioned outside the scriptures. So for someone in that time in first century Palestine, he was very well attested to and very well written about. We do have a lot of material about him.

COSTELLO: Yes. But there are still mysteries that will probably always remain in place, and maybe that's a good thing.

MARTIN: Well, it is a good thing. I mean we won't understand things like the resurrection, for example, fully, right. I mean that's a mystery. But there are some things that we can understand about Jesus. I talk about that in my book. The series talks about it. And it's helpful for us to know as much as we can about the life and times of Jesus to understand who he was and what his message was.

COSTELLO: Father Martin, thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

MARTIN: My pleasure.

COSTELLO: You can find out much more about the connections between Jesus and John the Baptist on CNN's "FINDING JESUS" that airs here on CNN Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

All right. A jury has reached a verdict in the Jodi Arias case. They were deciding whether Jodi Arias gets life in prison or death. We're going to talk about that after a break. The information is just coming into us.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. A little bit more about our breaking news. The jury has reached a decision in the Jodi Arias sentencing trial --

that decision will actually be read at 11:30 Eastern. Of course, the jury is deciding whether Jodi Arias gets to live or die.

With me on the phone, our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. Of course Jeffrey, there is a possibility that the jury will be hung on its decision again, right?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: There is. And if -- just to remind people, the jury was hung on the death penalty the last time, that's why this is being redone. Under Arizona law, if they hang again, that's it, she gets life in prison.

COSTELLO: Do you have any sense of which way the jury is swaying -- or swayed, I should say?

TOOBIN: I really don't know. I think many people looking at this case thought that it was unlikely she would get the death penalty to start with. And there was some criticism of the prosecutors in Arizona for going to the enormous expense of doing it again. But you never know what a jury is going to do.

This crime was a terrible, terrible crime. There's no doubt about that. And so it could be entirely possible that the jury would sentence her to death.

COSTELLO: Ok. We'll just have to see, 11:33 Eastern time is when the jury will announce its decision, or I guess the judge will in this case.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" straight ahead.