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Protests Over Wisconsin Police Shooting; Apple Watch; ISIS and Boko Haram Joining Forces?

Aired March 09, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. Thank you for joining me. I'm Ana Cabrera.

At this hour, hundreds and hundreds of students have cut classes to pack their state capitol in Madison, Wisconsin, to protest the killing of a biracial unarmed biracial white teen by a white police officer.

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(CHANTING)

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CABRERA: Just moments ago inside the capital, a huge crowd chanted, "Hands up, don't shoot."

Of course, that's reminiscent of the protests we saw in Ferguson, Missouri. Watch. Again, all of this is happening not in Ferguson, but in Madison, Wisconsin. That's where, on Friday night, a police officer says he was forced to shot Tony Robinson, who was 19 years old. He was unarmed. Officer Matt Kenny was responding to this call that came into dispatch.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look for a male black, light-skinned, tan jacket and jeans, outside yelling and jumping in front of cars, 19 years of age. Name is Tony Robinson.

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CABRERA: Police say that when Kenny got to the scene, he heard a commotion inside. He forced his way in. And at some point, investigators say, preliminary investigation shows Robinson assaulted the officer, forcing him to shoot the 19-year-old man.

CNN's Rosa Flores is in Madison for us.

Rosa, do we know any more about what happened inside that home just before the officer fired his weapon?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, before I get into that, Ana, I want to show you what is happening behind me, because this scene has been a very active scene since Friday, since these dramatic events unfolded. Take a look, the fire department just rolling up moments ago. They

won't tell us exactly what is going on. They do tell us this is not an emergency. The home is not on fire. But I did see that they pulled a hose over. It's unclear again what exactly they're going to be doing here. But it's an active scene. You can see the crime scene tape.

Police have not left this scene since this incident happened. They have been guarding it 24/7 to make sure that all of the evidence inside is secured.

Now, you were asking me about the moments before this unfolded. I can tell you something. We haven't seen a swarm of witnesses. We haven't seen viral videos. Why? Because this happened inside that house that you see behind me. However, we did talk to one woman exclusively who is literally living a wall away from where these gunshots rang out.

And she describes it as a very dramatic event. She said she threw herself to the ground. She was afraid. Of course, you hear gunshots right next to you, and so she feels that she had to speak out and tell her story because she said this needs to stop. It's in too many cities around this country.

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KATHLEEN BUFTON, NEIGHBOR: I heard the pounding on the door and...

FLORES: Was that the police?

BUFTON: Yes. And he forced the door open and went upstairs. I don't know what happened. I heard just more scuffling. I don't know.

FLORES: Like a commotion? Something...

(CROSSTALK)

BUFTON: Yes, something's going on. And then when there was a running down the stairs, I heard the shots.

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FLORES: And now she and other people in this community asking themselves, did this police officer have other tools other than that weapon, than the gun? And I talked to the police chief. He tells me that he did have a stun gun, but he said he couldn't comment about the use of deadly force -- Ana.

CABRERA: Rosa, so you have the witness who heard the shots, but we also know that the victim here, the teenager who was shot and killed by the officer was inside his best friend's apartment. Was there anybody else inside the apartment?

FLORES: It's unclear if someone else was in the apartment. From talking to the woman who was next door, she said she heard a scuffle like boys, she said, being rough with each other, playing, in essence, in this apartment. But she also described these teenagers as being friendly. She said

they were not do drugs, they weren't drunk. They didn't have drinking parties. She said that they were just good guys living next door that like any other kids, she said, because they're of course a lot younger than she is, they would horse around and that's about it.

It's unclear if the two brothers were in the house when the gunshots went off. But it appears to be they could have been inside.

CABRERA: All right. Rosa Flores, thank you for staying on top of the developments for us.

These images of protesters converging in outrage over the police shooting, however impressive these crowds are, we have seen them before. This isn't new. Remember after the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, much the same thing?

But there is something starkly different from Ferguson here. Madison's police chief has already come forward issuing an apology just two days after Tony Robinson was shot to death by one of his officers. Listen.

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MIKE KOVAL, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE CHIEF: All I can do is what I think is right. And that is, when information is made known, there's no sense in deflecting it or redirecting it.

We should own it, be transparent with it, and provide it. We need to start, as any healing or reconciliation would, with an "I'm sorry." And I have done that privately and I'm attempting to do it publicly. And that is the only way we can start to begin sort of the healing or the rift that may take years, if at all, to mend. But the effort has to be there.

So we have to acknowledge it, we have to own it, we have to say we're sorry at the outset for it. And then we have to show affirmative steps in moving forward to bring community back into the fold, as it were.

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CABRERA: I want to bring in someone who helped organize today's protest. M. Adams is an organizer and spokesperson with the Young, Gifted, and Black Coalition.

M., there has been some significant differences in how Madison's police chief has handled this compared with what we saw in Ferguson. You heard Chief Mike Koval say he's sorry. He released the name of the officer, even revealed a previous police shooting that this officer had been involved with back in 2007. The officer was cleared in that case.

And the chief also declined to say whether Tony Robinson has a criminal record. We now know he does. He pleaded guilty to an armed robbery just a few months ago. So, Em, what do you make of the police chief's response to all of this?

M. ADAMS, YOUNG, GIFTED AND BLACK COALITION: I think the only difference that actually is going to matter here that is going make us different than Ferguson, New York, and other places is whether or not the police officer is going to have to face justice.

If the officer is arrested and then convicted, then we can say Madison police is better or different, but just giving niceties is not enough for a community that is grieving over the loss of a child, an unarmed child.

CABRERA: What makes you so sure that the officer's actions were not justified?

ADAMS: I think if a kid is unarmed, there's no reason to shoot him five times in the chest. And the truth of the matter is, no other people have that right.

If you were I were in a struggle and there was a fight, neither you or I would have the right to shoot someone in the chest five times. We would be told that that amount of force was unjustifiable. That is also true. And the police are people with lots of tools and lots of resources to keep them safe. It doesn't match -- the level of violence that the police officer used doesn't match.

And actually what matches here is that this is part of a pattern of historical and structure racism in police departments and police forces. The police community here has been very violent toward the black community, particularly in overpolicing, massive arrests, police harassment. This is just an extension of that. What we do know is that the violence here was not warranted.

CABRERA: You're saying that there have been other issues there in Madison, Wisconsin. Do you feel that there is an underlying issue here? This is not an incident that is unique?

ADAMS: Yes, I think that there are some things here that are unique, but I do think there have been other police-involved shootings here and that police have not been held accountable for those shootings.

And, in fact, the officer that has shot Tony Robinson was given an award for the killing of the person previously. So there's not a history of holding police accountable for police murders here. We saw that with this officer in the past. We also saw it with the shooting of Paul Heenan. The officer was not held accountable for killing Paul Heenan.

So, we do nationally, not just here, in Madison, but Milwaukee and also nationally, that police are killing people and not being held accountable for their actions.

CABRERA: I want to read you a statement from the governor's office, of course, Governor Scott Walker, believed to be a potential presidential contender.

And it reads this: "An overwhelming majority of police officers follow procedures and do a good job of protecting and serving the public. Last spring, Governor Walker signed legislation that adds another layer of transparency in the investigation process by requiring an independent review of officer-involved deaths. The Wisconsin Department of Justice will conduct the independent investigation."

Hearing those words, do you have any confidence in the system that justice, be it charges or not, will hold out here?

ADAMS: I think what is missing here is that there is no community oversight.

I think that the communities need to be involved in determining justice and accountability for police. We can't leave it to people connected to the police or extensions of the police to bring out justice or to bring transparency and true accountability for the police.

And what we also know here is, as I mentioned, this is part of a pattern. We need to see a completely different structure, not one that the police are connected to, that can bring about accountability here.

CABRERA: All right. M. Adams, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with us.

ADAMS: Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next, more protests erupting, this time in Oklahoma. Students there outraged after a video surfaces showing fraternity brothers shouting a racist chant. One current student reacts live.

Plus, moments ago, Apple introducing its first big product to launch under CEO Tim Cook. Will the Apple watch take off?

And new arrests in the Paris terror attacks. One of them is a female police officer, one of the suspects here who allegedly knew -- coming up.

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CABRERA: The protests may be silent in Oklahoma, but the message there is loud and clear. Students at the University of Oklahoma are expressing their outrage after a video surfaced showing members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, the SAE fraternity, singing racist chants.

Here, you see those party-bound fraternity members on a bus clapping. They're pumping their fists as they boisterously sing that racial epithet. This video from Saturday found its way anonymously to the school newspaper and another campus organization, both of which quickly publicized that clip.

The national SAE fraternal organization immediately closed down the chapter, saying -- quote -- "We apologize for the unacceptable and racist behavior of the individuals in the video, and we are disgusted that any member would act in such a way." The university president also spoke just a couple of hours ago on campus saying this affiliation with the fraternity is over, doneski. And the members have until midnight tomorrow to move out.

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DAVID BOREN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA: I don't have much sympathy for them. They will have to find a place, a roof over their heads themselves. We don't plan to help them. I will tell you that. As I just said, I would be happy if they left. That's not our responsibility. We don't provide student services for bigots.

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CABRERA: Let me bring in CNN Miguel Marquez. Also with us, Morehouse College professor and CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill, and Rasheeda Kabba, a member of the Black Students Association at the University of Oklahoma.

Thank you all for being with me.

Miguel, to you first. Where does this investigation stand?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're looking into everything at this point as far as we can tell.

It's a little unclear where the university actually wants to go with all of this. The SAE has said for at least four years this charter is dissolved, that there will no longer be an SAE chapter at O.U. The university, at the same time, has shut down the house. We actually have pictures on social media now around the university of that house being shut down, moving vans pulling up, members taking their belongings.

It will have to be -- everything will have to be out by tomorrow evening. Then, according to David Boren, the president of the university, they're going look at the incident, who was involved and whether or not expulsion for some of the members might be necessary. I can tell you that student groups, African-American fraternities, others at that school want something wider.

They want to know that this is not a problem at -- or if it is a problem at other fraternity organizations or sorority organizations, that it's dealt with head on and there's a conversation and something is done to stop it, because I have heard from -- I have only been on this today and heard from so many students saying that this is -- it's rife, that this is the tip of the iceberg. And they want something more done about it.

CABRERA: Marc, it does not appear that was the first time this group did this chant, given the fact they were all in unison chanting loudly. I know you are a college professor. You deal with college students. What do you make of this?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This seems like not a moment of poor choice or poor behavior, but a pattern, in fact, a tradition and ritual within the fraternity.

But we don't want to do is think this is somehow an outlier. What we got was a window into the interior lives and discourses of many people, not everybody, maybe not even most. But this is not an unusual circumstance around the country. That's why it's so important that the university president acted the way he did.

And it's more important for us to have an investigation to find out more about this. People have a right to be racist. But they don't have a right to engage in discriminatory policies and to create a hostile climate on campus. What they did wasn't just untoward, it wasn't just disrespectful. It's also a form of assault to people on campus, to black and brown students on campus. This is a problem.

CABRERA: Rasheeda, I know you were there at the news conference earlier today as the president came out and really condemned this act and used harsh words, closing down the fraternity for good. What do you make of the school's response?

RASHEEDA KABBA, BLACK STUDENTS ASSOCIATION, UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA: I think that the president David Boren dealt with the problem as best as he knew how.

As far as from his political standpoint in him trying to be fair to the other students, I think he handled it the best way he knew how, but I also think that -- I think that a lot of people didn't realize it was this way, because we have brought to his attention before -- I know the O.U. Unheard has by been a really big pushing force in this act like this.

So, I know O.U. Unheard has done a lot of things prior to this day to build up to this day. But I don't think he finally grasped what was really going on until this video came to the light.

CABRERA: And when you say grasped what was really going on, are you just speaking about this particular fraternity?

KABBA: I would definitely not say that it was just this particular fraternity.

President Boren also touched on the fact that it's a smaller group of people representing a larger group. And he doesn't feel as though the larger group, the whole -- the group as a whole should be in trouble for that. But I think that it was just a smaller group that got caught. I don't think it's necessarily that a smaller group of people feel this way.

I just think that the smaller group of people is who were caught on tape.

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CABRERA: Marc, does it surprise you that not one person stood up and said this isn't OK, at least in the video?

HILL: No, because there's something seductive about white supremacy. Oftentimes, people will be in the moment. Even if in their best

moment they wouldn't do it themselves or initiate such a chant, they do nothing to resist the chant. That's part of what white privilege is. That's part of white supremacy allows for. And so that's why important for us to not just challenge the 10 people who led the chant or who we saw on tape, but go to the entire fraternity and ask some serious questions here.

Black witness often doesn't mean anything. Black students are on college campuses all around the country. And I study these students. They talk about these types of experiences. They talk about these micro-aggressions. They talk about these very direct forms of racism. But they often get ignored by student -- and by administration, rather. The only time it seems to matter is if it's on tape.

That's why it's so important look at this tape, but to also look at the bigger culture on college campuses and universities.

CABRERA: Rasheeda, when you heard the words in the video, how did it make you feel?

KABBA: Well, originally, I didn't understand what the words were saying, but then, when somebody wrote them out, I was -- that's when I was actually in awe. I was in shock, not so much the use of profanity as far as the N-word, but I'm not sure if you showcased the part where they said, you can hang them on a tree.

HILL: Right.

KABBA: That is what really hit home to me. That's when I was really shocked, because in the way they were chanting it, it wasn't something that was just made up off the top of their head.

It was something that everybody in the bus knew, that everybody chanted that everybody clapped and was so confident and happy. And I honestly think that they're just upset that they got caught and that they have to face the consequences for that.

CABRERA: Last word here to you, Marc. What needs to happen to break this?

HILL: One, we need to reframe this.

We can't just look at this as an example of poor speech or unpopular speech. We have to think of this as a form of violence, because if we think of this as a form of rhetorical violence against students and a violent climate for students, then we respond differently. We respond with more severe punishment.

You can't police people's speech. You can't police people's racist thoughts, but you can stop them from doing this. And I think the president went a long way, he has more to go, but he went a long way to make it happen.

CABRERA: All right, Marc, Rasheeda, Miguel, our thanks to all of you for joining us. Up next, ISIS may have a new supporter, a terror group, Boko Haram.

It apparently has pledged its allegiance to ISIS. But what will it mean to both groups? That's next.

Plus, Apple ready to shake up the digital world again. They just unveiled this new Apple Watch. We will show you how it works and discuss what it could mean for the future.

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CABRERA: Just moments ago, we heard from President Obama reacting to a letter that Republican senators drafted to leaders in Iran over the Iranian nuclear deal.

Now, in this letter, essentially, the senators came out and told Iranian leadership that any deal they came about with President Obama may not hold up after he leaves the presidency.

Here is Obama reacting to that.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I think it's somewhat ironic to see some members of Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran. It's an unusual coalition.

I think what we're going to focus on right now is actually seeing whether we can get a deal. And once we do, then we will -- if we do, then we will be able to make the case to the American people. And I'm confident we will be able to implement it.

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CABRERA: Jake Tapper and his team are working on the and will have more developments coming up in "THE LEAD" at the top of the hour.

Now, an arc of terror spanning from the Middle East clear across Africa, and there's some new audio suggesting the purported leader of the Nigeria terror group Boko Haram is now seeking an alliance with ISIS.

CNN is still working to verify the reports that the group known for kidnapping hundreds of schoolgirls has pledged allegiance to ISIS, this as Chad and Niger launched a new offensive, deploying hundreds of ground troops and conducting air raids in Nigeria today, attempting to erode Boko Haram's control over an area that is already bigger than ISIS' territory in Iraq and Syria.

I want to bring in an expert on all this, J. Peter Pham, the director of the Atlantic Council's Africa Center and one of the preeminent U.S. experts on Boko Haram.

Thank you so much for joining me.

First, I want to get your take on this move, this so-called allegiance by Boko Haram. What is their motivation? J. PETER PHAM, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Well, Ana, this is a marriage, if you will, that has been in the makes for some time.

The two have been courting each other. There have been shout-outs in social media and in their video productions. So, this is a long time in coming. And, right now, the timing is perfect for both groups.

Boko Haram, for the first time in its history, is facing serious military pressure from Nigeria and other African countries that is whittling back the territory that it has managed to seize and hold for so long. ISIS is facing pressure from the Kurdish forces, as well as Iraqi government forces backed by Iran.