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Senators Question Obama Military Authority; Eleven Presumed Dead in Army Blackhawk Crash; Republicans Standing by Letter to Iran

Aired March 11, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHTON CARTER, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The president's proposed authorization affords the American people the chance to assess our progress in three years time, and provides the next president and the next Congress the opportunity to reauthorize it, if they find it necessary.

To me, this is a sensible and principled provision of the AUMF, even though I cannot assure that the counter-ISIL campaign will be completed in three years.

Now, in addition to providing the authority and flexibility to wage a successful campaign, I said I had another key consideration as secretary of defense, and that is sending the right signals, most importantly, to the troops. Passing the proposed AUMF will demonstrate to our personnel that their government stands behind them. And as Secretary Kerry explained, it will also signal to our coalition partners and our adversary that the United States government has come together to address a serious challenge.

We all took an oath to protect the nation and its interests. But to do so, we must work together. I know everyone on this committee takes the ISIL threat seriously. President Obama and everyone at this table does as well. We encourage a serious debate. But I urge you to pass the president's AUMF because it provides the necessary authority and flexibility to wage our current campaign and because it will demonstrate to our men and women in uniform, some of whom are in harm's way right now, that all of us stand unflinchingly behind them.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, distinguished members of this committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Let me begin by adding my personal thoughts and prayers to those of the secretary of defense at the loss of the folks on that helicopter, a reminder to us that those who serve put themselves at risk both in training and in combat. And we will work with the services to ensure those survivors, or I should say their family members, will be well cared for.

SEN. BOB CORKER (R-TN), CHAIRMAN, FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: And if I could, the committee will join you on that. Thank you.

DEMPSEY: Yes, sir. Thank you.

I appreciate the opportunity to be here today with Secretary Kerry and Secretary Carter. I just returned yesterday from a trip to the Middle East. I spent a day in Baghdad with Iraqi and U.S. leaders discussing our strategy against ISIL.

I also spent a day with my French counterpart and 2,000 of France's sailors and marines aboard the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle in the Arabian Gulf. Our U.S. Navy aircraft carrier Carl Vinson was just off the starboard side. These two great vessels sitting side by side, their combat aircraft, and importantly, their crews are a powerful image of partnership and commitment in this fight.

It's actually the solidarity of all of our coalition members that is fundamental to the strength of our campaign against this trans- regional threat that ISIL represents. The government of Iraq has a lot of work yet to do, with the help of the coalition, to ensure ISIL is defeated, and importantly, stays defeated, and that will take time.

I've been consulted on the proposed authorization for the use of military force against ISIL and its associated groups. It is suitable to the campaign as we have presently designed it. We should expect our enemies will continue to adapt their tactics and we will adapt ours.

Bipartisan support for an AUMF would send an important signal of national support to those who are serving in harm's way conducting this mission. I met with some of them over this past weekend and they are performing magnificently, as you would expect.

I thank you for your commitment to our men and women in uniform and I look forward to your questions.

CORKER: Thank you all for your testimony.

Let me just begin with Secretary Carter and Chairman Dempsey. I know that Secretary Kerry mentioned that he feels that currently the AUMF that we have from '01 and the one from '02 give the United States legal authority to do what is now occurring. I just wonder if both of you would answer yes or no whether you believe that to be the case.

CARTER: I do, yes.

DEMPSEY: Yes, Senator.

CORKER: So from your perspective, you will make unanimous every witness that has come before us on behalf of the administration believes that currently we're operating in a legal -- under a legal premise with what we're doing against ISIS today.

Let me ask you this question, Secretary Carter, Chairman Dempsey: Has there been any indication to the people we're dealing with as part of our coalition or the troops that Congress today is not behind what is happening on the ground with ISIS?

CARTER: I can speak to that, Mr. Chairman. I think that the folks I've talked to of ours do in fact believe that the outrages that Secretary Kerry described on the part of ISIL warrant the operation that they're involved in. And of course, we don't do anything that isn't lawful. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't tell you... CORKER: Sure. But they don't -- there's no one that you deal with that doesn't believe that Congress is wholeheartedly behind the effort to deal with ISIS. Is that correct?

CARTER: I -- I haven't (ph) talked to people who have had a view one way or the other. They know that a hearing like this is going on. I think they know its purpose. And I presume, like me, they welcome a good outcome of it.

CORKER: Yeah.

Chairman Dempsey?

DEMPSEY: I have no doubt to suggest that they have any doubt about the support of the Congress of the United States or the American people.

CORKER: Yeah. Let me -

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to step away from this hearing just to, like, take a wider view of it.

I want to bring back CNN's Joe Johns, Elise Labott and Lt. Gen. Michael Barbero. They're also joined Josh Rogin, a CNN political analyst and columnist for the "Bloomberg View."

Elise, I found it interesting that Secretary of State Kerry talked a lot about unity. He began his speech, his opening statement, by saying America is strongest when we act together. Politics must stop at the water's edge. I hope we can accomplish that today.

Why do you suppose he started his statement that way?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER: Well, I think he knows, Carol, that this Congress is divided not necessarily about the need to combat ISIS or that the U.S. should even be involved but about how this mission should be undertaken and what the strategy is. I mean, clearly Republicans are looking for a broader mission, much more robust. And Democrats are worried that this will, you know, turn into mission creep and get the administration into another long out -- drawn out war that it can't get out of.

So I think even in the statements that you heard from the chairman and the ranking member, Bob Corker and Senator Menendez, they were -- Bob Corker was talking about how the AUMF, as it's written, signaled the lack of commitment. And Senator Menendez was talking about how, you know, this can't be an open-ended mission.

So I think as this plays out, you're going to see those debates between the senators and the administration also in the questioning.

COSTELLO: And, Josh, before we broke away, they were talking a lot about the legality of the president's action when it comes to waging war against ISIS. What are they trying to get at there?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: What they are saying is that the administration has been fighting this war against ISIS for about eight months now and has argued that it has the legal justification to do so. So why do they need another authorization?

The administration's argument is simple. They said it would be great, it would be a bipartisan show of support. It would show the international community unity and it would eliminate the sort of unclear application of the previous AUMF to the current war.

But they've also said very clearly that if Congress doesn't get its act together and doesn't pass an AUMF, they feel like they have the legal cover to keep doing what they're doing. So their message to Congress is simple. We would love for you to do this but if not, we'll be fine.

COSTELLO: General Barbero, you heard the secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Martin Dempsey, say that it's important to get this agreement through because it would demonstrate to the troops that America is behind them. And it would also -- the war would also become a shared responsibility between the president and Congress.

Is that important?

LT. GEN. MICHAEL BARBERO, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Absolutely important. I've been on the ground in Tikrit in 2003 in Baghdad where we had descending voices from Congress on those operations and current operations in which U.S. forces were engaged in fighting and frankly being killed. So it is important. And I don't think any troops doubt the support for this operation.

But I think there are questions not about this AUMF, which is a vehicle for a strategy, but really can the strategy defeat ISIS as it states as its end state which means you're going to have to go into Iraq and Syria to do that. And so there are questions about the strategy. I don't think there are questions about the support from the administration, Congress or the American people.

COSTELLO: And, Joe, I don't mean to throw a lightweight question your way, but is it -- it is interesting that the anti-war protesters Code Pink managed to get in all of these hearings. And not just one person but several.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: They are very determined. And again and again they show up. They make their statements and as you saw that individual who was holding the sign, simply parodying the term AUMF, he continued to speak as he walked out the door. But walked out the door. So this is one way that they get their voices heard on Capitol Hill, Carol, and it tends to be effective over years.

One point that was made there about what we're hearing in this hearing, what's very interesting I think is the talk of strategy but the admission that the AUMF the White House is requesting will sunset in three years but the administration is saying they're not sure at all that the fight against ISIS is going to be at an end in three years. COSTELLO: That's right. That's what Ashton Carter said, General. He

said, I can't assure you that the mission will be accomplished in three years but it's important to have that timetable because it allows the American people to check back to see if the war is going well, to see if we should continue, and that is important, right?

BARBERO: Well, ISIS won't be defeated in three years especially with the current execution strategy. And I think the American people have a means to check back or voice, and that's called an election. So it's an artificial constraint looking towards, I think, domestic politics obviously and it does not match the stated end state of the strategy which is to defeat ISIS.

COSTELLO: All right. I've got to take a break right now. But stay right there. We'll be right back with more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. As we've been telling you, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is holding hearings on the president's request for authorization to use force against ISIS. Testifying today, Secretary of State John Kerry, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, and you can see the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey.

We're keeping an eye on this for you. We'll check back. But we're following another breaking story for you right now. A tragic one.

A U.S. Defense official says seven Marines and four aircrew members are presumed dead after their Army Blackhawk chopper went down in the waters off the Florida Panhandle last night.

So let's head straight to CNN's Victor Blackwell. He's in Hammond, Louisiana. He's at the Army National Guard base where the Blackhawk that crashed had been assigned.

What do you have, Victor?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, a major loss here for the Louisiana Army National Guard as that Blackhawk, as you said, was assigned here along with four of those service members on board. The two pilots, two crew members also assigned here.

There are few details being released right now or few details known but a spokesperson for Eglin Air Force Base across the Florida state line where this training mission, this joint training mission originated from, is telling CNN a few details about what they know thus far. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA VIDONI, EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER: What we do know is that two UH-60 aircraft that were assigned to the Louisiana Army National Guard were participating in a training exercise overnight. One of the aircraft, which had four aircrew and seven Marines assigned from Camp Lejeune, was involved in an accident. It was near our Eglin Range site A-17, which is just east of Navarre. It was in the vicinity of one of our test and training beach areas.

The helicopter was reported missing about 8:30 last night. Debris was located by the search and rescue team at about 2:00 a.m. this morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And Carol, we know about the weather conditions at that time of the evening. Although the officials have not said if weather was involved or contributed to the accident, there were foggy conditions in the area so that's obviously something they're looking into.

None of the names has been released by either the Marines there at Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, North Carolina, or by the Louisiana Army National Guard. But we have been told that that second chopper involved or that second chopper involved in the training mission was not involved in the accident and that Blackhawk landed safely back at Eglin Air Force Base.

COSTELLO: I know that the governor, Bobby Jindal, has weighed in. What does he have to say?

BLACKWELL: Yes, the governor just before the top of the hour released a statement. I'm going to read part of it to you now. In that statement, the governor says that our service members -- let me get it for you here.

"Our guardsmen have fought courageously overseas in defense of our nation and here at home they have protected what matters most during times of crisis. These soldiers represent the best of Louisiana and we are praying for them and their families."

Again, those names have not been released. They are first going to, of course, notify next of kin -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Victor Blackwell reporting live for us this morning. Thanks so much.

With me on the phone now Captain Barry Morris. He's a public affairs officer.

Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

CAPT. BARRY MORRIS, MARSOC PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICER: Yes, no problem, Carol.

COSTELLO: What can you tell us about those lost?

MORRIS: Well, first, I can say that MARSOC, we're extremely grateful for all the agencies involved that are continuing the search and rescue efforts in the area. We had seven highly trained Marine Special Operations Forces, Marines in the aircraft at the time of the mishap so we're really -- we're working closely with all the parties involved to locate our Marines and the Army crew that onboard.

And really our just thoughts and prayers are with the Marines, soldiers and the family members of those involved in this mishap.

COSTELLO: Yes, we often forget that even training exercises can be dangerous in the service especially when you're flying something like the Blackhawk chopper.

Can you -- can you get into that a little bit for us, sir?

MORRIS: You know, Carol, I wish I could. But I can't talk on the capabilities of the UH-60 Blackhawk. I do know -- you know, we have a requirement to conduct realistic military training, and unfortunately, you know, this mishap happened. But again, you know, we're working with all the agencies involved, you know, to locate our Marines and the Army aircrew.

COSTELLO: Right.

MORRIS: And we're just really thinking about the families of those involved right now.

COSTELLO: I can't even imagine. Can you tell me how you're assisting exactly?

MORRIS: We're just coordinating with each one of the individual agencies. You know, the search and rescue, and the Coast Guard search and rescue there in New Orleans. You know, they're in the water. They're continuously searching. Other than that we just want to reach out to the family members who could potentially be affected until we know for certain the status of their individual Marine.

That's about all we can do right now and to make sure that we get the right message out. That's why we're taking this opportunity to talk to you to let you know that, you know, we're really concerned and we want to locate our Marines and the aircrew. So thank you for this opportunity to get the message out.

COSTELLO: Any time. Is this one of the worst accidents of its kind?

MORRIS: I can't say that. And I don't keep track of the accidents. But it's certainly significant and it's important to us. So that's why we're continuing to reach out to the search and rescue team working closely with the folks at Eglin Air Force Base and the Army National Guard. So obviously there's a lot of -- a lot of service components involved and we're very grateful and thankful for their efforts, professionalism, and working closely together just to locate our Marines and find out what had happened.

COSTELLO: All right. Captain Barry Morris, thanks so much for being with me. I appreciate it.

I'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHTON CARTER, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Before I begin I'm sure you're all aware that a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter was involved in an accident crash last night near Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. We know there were four aircrew Army from a National Guard unit in Hammond, Louisiana and seven Marines assigned to Camp Lejeune in North Carolina onboard that helicopter.

And I know that with me our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families as the search and rescue continues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Republicans are standing by their warning to Iran. In this open letter GOP members say that any deal with Iran, any deal that Iran makes with President Obama could be null and void once he leaves office unless they approve it. Those 47 senators have signed it including outspoken Governor Bobby Jindal, tweeting, quote, "Anyone thinking of running for president on both sides should sign to make it clear that Iran is negotiating with a lame-duck prez."

Least to say that is not sitting well with the Obama administration.

Sunlen Serfaty is at the White House this morning.

Good morning.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning. That's right, the Obama administration has called this letter reckless and harmful to the negotiations. And to note several of the Republican potential contenders for president have signed on to that letter including Senator Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham. They are among the 47 signatories of this letter.

And we've seen really a fierce defense by these senators after this controversy ensued. They believe that this was the right strategy. Here's Senator Marco Rubio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: This is an unusual moment with an incredible risk to the world and our country and the region and it required -- it required unusual methods to deal with it.

The risk of a nuclear Iran -- I would send another one tomorrow. I think that the risk of a nuclear Iran is so great that we need to do everything possible to keep us from finding ourselves in a situation where we're going to have a nuclear Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a potential Democratic candidate for president, of course, she is engulfed in this e-mail controversy and yesterday she really took aside away from that and took a strong stance in defense of the Obama administration and their view on this letter saying that it's out of step with tradition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: What was the purpose of this letter? There appear to be two logical answers. Either these senators were trying to be helpful to the Iranians or harmful to the commander-in-chief in the midst of high stakes international diplomacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: Secretary of State John Kerry will travel to Switzerland on Sunday to meet for the first face-to-face talks since this letter was released with the Iranian Foreign minister -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Sunlen, thanks so much.

Speaking of Marco Rubio, he's now asking questions of the secretary of state and the other Cabinet members assembled before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. They're talking about giving the president authorization to go to war. Let's listen.

RUBIO: Into Iraq as trainers, advisers, or logistical support, they would support that? Iran would support that?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, they're not going to come out and openly support it and they obviously would be nervous about it. But they're not going to object if that's what it is. But the point is you have bigger problems than that with that particular scenario because the Shia militia within Iraq might have something to say about it. Muqtada al-Sadr, Hadi al-Amiri, other people might obviously react very adversely to that.

But what's important, Senator, with respect to your question, is to understand this. And I think this has been a misread by a lot of people up here on the Hill to be honest with you. There is no grand bargain being discussed here in the context of this negotiation. This is about a nuclear weapon potential. That's it. And the president has made it absolutely clear they will not get a nuclear weapon.

Now the presumption by a lot of people up on the Hill has been that we somehow aren't aware of that goal even as we negotiate that goal. Our negotiation is calculated to make sure they can't get a nuclear weapon. And it's really almost insulting that the presumption here is that we're going to negotiation something that allows them to get a nuclear weapon.

RUBIO: Well, I haven't discussed about the nuclear weapon. What I've -- and I'm not saying there's a grand bargain. What I'm saying is that I believe that our military strategy towards ISIS is influenced by our desire not to cross red lines that the Iranians have about U.S. military presence in the region.

KERRY: No. Absolutely not in the least.

RUBIO: OK.

KERRY: There's no consideration whatsoever as to how they or anybody else -- we will do what is necessary in conjunction with our coalition. Remember, we have 62 countries --

RUBIO: OK. But I want to talk about the coalition.

KERRY: -- including five Sunni countries that for the first time ever are engaged in military action in another country in the region.