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Source: Ferguson Police Chief Willing To Step Down; Jurors Relive Manhunt For Brothers; Jury: "Blurred Lines" Ripped Off Marvin Gaye

Aired March 11, 2015 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news. A source now telling CNN that the police chief in Ferguson, Missouri, has indicated he is now willing to step down. This, of course, comes on the heels of the resignation of the municipal judge and then, just last night, the Ferguson city manager resigned. All this after the Justice Department's report found evidence that the city of Ferguson and its police officers discriminated against African-Americans.

And I want to bring in Sara Sidner, who's been all over this from the beginning.

What are you learning?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, the source that I spoke with that's in the city has talked about the fact that the police chief has said that he is planning to resign. What we were not getting from them is exactly when that was going to happen. And what they said was, look, he wants to resign on his own terms. And I know to a lot of people who have been asking for his resignation, that sounds like the city is just letting him do whatever he wants.

But the bottom line is, there are laws in place. A 2013 law that Missouri has in place that makes it very difficult for municipalities, city governments to just plainly on a political matter get rid of a chief, and that was put in place for a reason. So they had some protections and they couldn't be a political football. But what's happened in Ferguson, a lot of folks are saying, he's the head of the department while all this has gone on.

Why is he still there? The answer to that lies with the chief himself. He can certainly resign. I think that's what we are going to see, because he says, my source says, look, this has to be on his terms, and so that indicates that he's going to be the one to put that resignation in, just like we saw from the city manager.

CABRERA: Interesting, because a few months ago when I sat down with him he was adamant he would not step down on his own terms because he wanted to see it through. He felt a sense of responsibility to be able to sort of make right the -- with the community, what had happened after the Michael Brown shooting death, and now it sounds like, could he be forced to resign, although it would be seeming like it was on his other terms?

SIDNER: You know, that's something that the city has to look at, but again, the laws are very clear. There are -- four things that the city can force him out including that he committed a felony. There are strict things the city has to look at.

So right now, what I've been told now is that he needs to do this on his own terms and one of those things is he does not want to see the department dissolved. There are, of course, protesters that want to see that happen. They don't want the Ferguson Police Department in place.

There are also residents who say we do want our own police department. We don't want that to go anywhere, and so what you're seeing here is sort of the dichotomy of what to do in this situation and what he said is I don't want to leave unless I am assured this department will remain in place and not be dissolved either by the DOJ or by St. Louis County taking over. He doesn't get to make that decision.

CABRERA: What the path forward looks like. You had a chance to speak with him briefly last week on the ground and everyone wonder, where is the police chief? Why isn't he saying anything? Let's play that clip for your interaction with him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Don't you think you should have known some of the things that came out, the racist e-mails, the numbers? Were you just trying to bilk people out of money instead are protecting them? Telling your department to just go ticket them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you, and I will be in touch. Get ahold of Jeff.

SIDNER: I've talked to everyone. I've given you literally every opportunity. We've been talking for days and days and days. All we want is an answer from you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to analyze the report and take action where necessary.

SIDNER: Does that mean you're going to stay around?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to take action where necessary. Thank you.

SIDNER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: I mean, he's almost speechless there. What did you make of what he had to say or not say?

SIDNER: Look, there are legal issues and there are things that he wants to really look over, but because he is mentioned in the report, his e-mails are mentioned in the report, he had to have known what was going on and as the chief, you should know what's going on in your department. Does he know about all of the e-mails? Maybe not. There's a lot of

folks that are writing e-mails back forth and a lot of e-mails to go through, but certainly the department's policies on ticketing. He should know.

Now to be fair, I've spoken with the mayor with, some of the other city council members, and there was a point at which they put up these cameras so some of the tickets have come from electronic cameras, traffic cameras.

CABRERA: Red lights, that type of thing?

SIDNER: And so that revenue was something like, $700,000, which helped boost the revenue. So they're looking at this report and they may reply to the DOJ saying we don't think this part was fair or that part was fair. That's still ongoing.

There are consultants in place, that are looking at this report very closely detail by detail to see if there are things the city says, look, we don't think that that actually is true. We have some proof that we were not sending our officers out and that's what they're sole purpose was.

CABRERA: Maybe still working to defend and just apologize?

SIDNER: Absolutely.

CABRERA: Not necessarily accept every word. Thank you so much, Sara Sidner. We appreciate it.

Up next, ripping testimony today in the Boston marathon bombing trial, jurors reliving the chaotic manhunt for the suspects, and they were seeing some video of it. We'll show it to you, how it all unfolded, live here on CNN.

Plus I'll speak live with the first responder who already took the stand and looked Dzhokhar Tsarnaev square in the eye. Don't miss this conversation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A camisole burned to shreds from the explosion, bloodied sneakers, a boat riddled with bullets, these are all pieces of evidence being presented in the marathon bombing trial. And they're just fragments that trigger flashbacks to the terrifying chapter in Boston's history.

Today's testimony focused on Officer Shean Collier. He's the MIT security officer who was murdered during the manhunt for those alleged bomber, Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

Again, this new testimony showing that the sense of fear so many felt years ago, felt so visceral.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard three big booms and multiple gunshots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A ton of gunshots, and then like, boom, boom -- like three big bangs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my home. It's scare to think of your home as, like, a war zone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're looking for right now is a suspect consistent with the description of suspect number two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're asking people to shelter in place. In other words, to stay indoors with their doors locked, and not to open the door for anyone other than a properly identified law enforcement officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are getting new details on breaking news from the Boston area. That shooting at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A police officer was shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the suspects shot and killed an M.I.T. police officer, 26-year-old Sean Collier, they then carjacked a man at gunpoint. Police chased down the suspects in the stolen car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During the course of that pursuit, several explosive devices were discharged from the car at the police officers. In the exchange of the gunfire we believe that one of the suspects was struck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I say Dzhokhar, if you're alive, turn yourself in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do have some new information and, in fact, they do have him cornered right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who cornered?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have the suspect. They believe it is the suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard what appeared to be several shots. That sound, the flash, bang, I heard one of those before, and it distinctively sound definitely like shots being fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm told from a Boston police source they have a suspect cornered in the backyard of a home.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "AC 360": What started about 23 hours ago now seems to be finally over, the last suspect being searched by police. According to the Boston Police Department that suspect is now in custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: That suspect in custody, was Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. I want to speak now with someone who looked Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the face. Jim Hooley, he is the head of Boston Emergency Medical Services right now. He was at the marathon, EMS Command, standing at the rear of that may medical tent just 200 yards away from where that first bomb went off.

And he testified earlier this week that 118 people were rushed in ambulances to local hospitals. Jim, I can only imagine what was going through your mind as you had to relive those moments and, of course, with Tsarnaev right in front of you. How was that? How did he act in court?

JAMES HOOLEY, TESTIFIED IN BOSTON BOMBING TRIAL: He was pretty much as other reports that I've read, pretty much just staring straight ahead and rather indifferent. I actually only spent a few moments looking at him. To be honest, I wanted to see him, but after that, I just chose to focus my attention on the U.S. attorney that was prosecuting the case and to make sure that I did a good job representing my department and the victims in this case.

CABRERA: Can you talk about the range of injuries that you and your staff had to treat and obviously in such a short amount of time because of those homemade bombs. How challenging was it?

HOOLEY: Well, it was pretty challenging, and I have to say that, you know, the person at the scene, the first responders, members of the public, and then the medical volunteers all were very instrumental in helping us have a, on whole a good outcome out of this.

You know, I temper that by knowing that we lost three folks that day and a lot of people that have lifelong healing to do, but as you talked about the magnitude of injuries, they're very serious.

Our crews, when they went into their disaster mass care mode, they quickly reported what totaled up to be 30 patients tagged red, coded at red for immediate or critical, 25 were identified at yellow, 35 were green. So it was 90 patients in that first 30 minutes that --

CABRERA: Those injuries ranging from --

HOOLEY: Those injuries, the reds, those injuries range from people with exsanguinating hemorrhage, people who needed tourniquet supplies, people who are unconscious, people who were not breathing adequately, pulses were difficult to detect.

Many of those people would have succumbed if it hadn't been -- many more would have succumbed if it hadn't been for the rapid intervention and treatment and distribution of patients to the Boston hospitals.

CABRERA: Is there one image that still haunts you that really has stuck with you?

HOOLEY: You know, perhaps just, you know, the enormity of it all. Going up Boylston Street and just coming upon the first sight and seeing well over 40 people down on the ground. Sure a lot of people were staggering away, a lot of people assisted away, but to -- for -- someone who spent many years in the EMS. If you work here you'll see your share of tragedy and trauma, but to see it on that scale is, takes you back for a few moments. CABRERA: I can only imagine. James Hooley, thank you so much for sharing with us. We appreciate it.

Just ahead, officials getting ready to hold a news conference, we're standing by. This, of course, is on the crash of that U.S. military chopper that happened over per night, 11 service members are feared dead, but the search for their remains and for the wreckage is still underway, this as we're getting our first look at some of the pieces of the wreckage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHTON CARTER, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: There were four soldiers from a National Guard unit in Hammond, Louisiana and seven Marines assigned to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. So our thoughts and our prayers are with them and their families as search efforts there continue.

It's an honor to welcome my counterpart from the United Kingdom, Defense Secretary Michael Fallon here to the Pentagon. This is a first for both of us, his first official visit to Washington and my first visit to the briefing room as secretary of defense.

CABRERA: OK, that was, of course, the Defense Secretary Ash Carter giving condolences and talking just a little bit about that crash of the Blackhawk helicopter this morning during a training mission for the military. Right now, 11 people are believed to be dead and right now the search continues for those individuals.

Let's switch gears here. Long cyber thieves stole mountains of customer data from Target and decades before Sony's hacking scandal rocked Hollywood, some teenagers in Milwaukee pioneered the art of cyber-crime.

They broke into hospitals, banks even a nuclear weapons research facility and in getting caught, they paved the way for the first computers crimes laws. A new special from CNN films looks at the 414s. Here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was what most of us met through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back then, yes, it was new. There weren't a lot of computers around back then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought an interesting way to secure your data put it on a format that's obsolete.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI obtained a warrant to search the home of Gerald Richard Wandra, who said that he was curious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first time the FBI visited me, they assumed me to be some kind of big criminal. One of the first things he said was I'm going to ask some questions that already know the answers to, so don't try to lie. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I suspected fairly quickly that this was not a group of professional criminals and in fact more like a high school social club.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all together and I said, you know, we should have a name for ourselves and the gangs in Milwaukee would identify themselves by the streets, which was their territory. Like the one dash nines and two-sevens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we joked, Milwaukee Area Code 414. So we're the 414s.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: You can check out the entire series, the 414s, a special CNN film only on CNN.com.

Everybody knows that song, right? It's hard not to dance when you hear it. "Blurred Lines" one of the decade's biggest hits also apparently ripped off another song. This one by Marvin Gaye.

That is Marvin Gaye's "Got Give It Up" and it was apparently the inspiration for "Blurred Lines" according to musicians Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams. But a federal jury in California said it was much more than inspiration, it was copyright infringement.

That ruling means Thicke and Pharrell Williams now have to pay more than $7 million. Their lawyer, Howard King, is joining me now. You think the jury got it wrong. Why?

HOWARD KING, ATTORNEY FOR PHARRELL WILIAMS AND ROBIN THICKE: Well, it's silk and rayon. Same feel, completely different components. If this jury verdict stands, the creator of rayon better look over his shoulder at the creator of silk.

CABRERA: Are you planning to appeal?

KING: We're not going to let this verdict stand. I've heard from a half a dozen named songwriters who you would recognize. I owe it to songwriters to appeal this. Pharrell Williams, Robin Thicke, T.I., absolutely, firmly know that "Blurred Lines" was created from their hearts and souls and no other source.

CABRERA: So they didn't think of Marvin Gaye's song at all when they came up with that?

KING: That's 100 percent accurate, and that's what their sworn testimony was at trial.

CABRERA: Hasn't Pharrell, though, said he's a big fan of Marvin Gaye? Listened to his music and that he has been inspired or influenced by Marvin Gaye?

KING: Absolutely. Marvin Gaye is one of his biggest heroes. He stood on the shoulders of Marvin Gaye in creating his music like all musicians do. They're always inspired by somebody. The bottom line is no one owns the style or genre of Marvin Gaye as much as we admire him.

CABRERA: A lot of people who have said that this verdict could hurt the music industry may not be looking at the other side in which, couldn't this help protect artists like Pharrell Williams, like Robin Thicke, in terms of protecting their creations?

KING: Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams are happy. They're delighted to have other people be inspired by their music and go out and create their own music in the same style and genre. That's how music works. They don't need protection from somebody else doing another hit in the same style of "Happy" or their other fine works.

CABRERA: Do you think we'll see more lawsuits, given the outcome of this particular incident?

KING: If this verdict stands, I think you'll have plaintiffs' lawyers rubbing their hands around the country. You'll absolutely see more lawsuits like this.

CABRERA: Are you surprised there haven't been more before now?

KING: No. Because I thought the law was that in a word or two, to be liable for infringement you actually to copy the notes and chords, which did not happen here.

CABRERA: All right, Howard King, thanks so much for your time.

KING: Thank you.

CABRERA: Any minute now we're expecting that live news conference from the military with more information on what happened when a helicopter went down in the Gulf of Mexico, and more on the fate of the 11 souls onboard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: I'm Ana Cabrera. Thanks so much for being with us. We're awaiting for a news conference in Hammond, Louisiana, home base to the military Blackhawk helicopter that crashed off the Florida panhandle overnight. We'll bring that to you just as soon as it begins, set to begin at the top of the hour.

But right now, new developments, new pictures come in from the search area and what you see here, said to be pieces of debris that the Blackhawk beginning to wash ashore. This is near Eglin Air Force Base near Pensacola, Florida. Officials say seven Marines plus four members of an Army Air crew are among those presumed dead.

CNN's Victor Blackwell joining us on the phone from Hammond, Louisiana. Victor, we know the army Blackhawk crashed during very foggy conditions. It was night training mission. What else have you learned?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, the cause of that crash has not yet been determined.