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Black Hawk Crash; Will Ferguson Police Chief Resign?

Aired March 11, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have been told by representatives here at Louisiana Army National Guard base here in Hammond, Louisiana, that there were weather issues, but they have not determined that the weather actually caused the crash. We are awaiting, as you said, this news conference from Major General Glenn Curtis. He's the adjutant general, head of the more than 11,000 members of the Louisiana National Guard, giving an update only on the four members, the pilots and the crew of the two UH-60s, those Black Hawks, one that landed safely, as we know, the other that went down.

We have heard that several of the members of the other chopper that landed safely, they soon will be questioned, screened to find out if they can add anything to the investigation about what sent this chopper down. But, as we know, this has been a major tragedy for Louisiana Army National Guard, four of them still missing.

We had been told by a spokesperson here that the next of kin, they have all been notified. The names have not yet been released. And only after this search is called off or if they are recovered will those names be released publicly. But, as you said at the top, Ana, pieces of this helicopter now washing ashore, including landing gear, and the discovery of human remains.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: And when you say that, it doesn't sound good, of course. We look at pictures and we don't know the cause of the crash, but it does look like it must have been a violent ending, given just how small some of these pieces are and we're seeing twisted metal. Hopefully, we will learn a little bit more information during this press conference.

I wonder what the conditions may have been like in terms of whether they anticipated the conditions or if this was something that came out of the blue. Can you tell us more than?

BLACKWELL: Well, a spokesperson there at Eglin says that intentionally in many cases this training happened in inclement weather, that the military has to be prepared for all possibilities, and sometimes there are mishaps.

And in this case, there obviously was one. And the fog has actually been a problem not just last night during the training, but really hampered the search during the morning hours. The only good news here is that the fog has begun to clear and it's made it easier for the Coast Guard or the civilian organizations like the Florida Fish and Wildlife to continue to search for the missing seven Marines, the four members of the Louisiana National Guard, also for the pieces of this plane.

We have now walking in Major General Glenn Curtis to give us the very latest on the Black Hawk that went down and those four members.

CABRERA: All right, Victor. Stand by for us. As soon as we see the military member spokesman coming up to this podium we will, of course, take you back there. We will check back in with you, Victor.

We do have more breaking news right now. A source tells CNN the police chief in Ferguson, Missouri, Tom Jackson, has indicated he is willing now to step down. It comes on the heels of a resignation of a municipal judge and the Ferguson city manager. We will talk more about that in just a moment. Bear with us.

We want to go back. The press conference has started about the 11 people presumed dead in this airplane -- or excuse me -- military helicopter crash.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MAJ. GEN. GLENN CURTIS, LOUISIANA NATIONAL GUARD: I thank all of you for coming out today. Today, as you can imagine, is a tough day for the Louisiana National Guard and the Marine Corps.

I am confirming to you that we had a training accident over in Florida, where we had two of our Black Hawk helicopters doing training misses with the Marine Corps. As we speak, there's an ongoing search- and-rescue operation to search for that aircraft and search for our service members that were on it, and that's as much as I know at this point, as many details that I know.

A little bit about the unit. The unit's official designation is the first of the 244th Assault Helicopter Battalion. They do flight the UH-60 Black Hawks and they have approximately 385 soldiers in this unit.

It is a very experienced unit, and one that has received numerous accolades from its service to our nation, to include deployed to Iraq twice in 2004 and '05 and then in 2008 and '09. Also, domestically, here in our state, they responded to Hurricane Katrina, Rita, the oil spill that we experienced a couple of years ago, the Mississippi River flood, and Tropical Storm Isaac.

I will tell you that both of the pilots were instructor pilots, which is one of the highest or the highest rating we have for our pilots in the Army. And the entire crew had several thousand hours of operation flying the Black Hawk.

Today, I was contacted by President Obama and Governor Jindal. And they asked that I extend to the families and to our service members in Louisiana National Guard that we were in their thoughts and prayers, and that the whole of government both at the federal and state level are at our disposal to take care of our soldiers and take care of their families.

Let me be very clear. At this hour, our priorities, my priorities are search-and-rescue for our soldiers and the Marines, and secondly is to take care of our families. And we are doing both of those. This will remain a search-and-rescue operation until further notice, and I would ask you, out of respect for the families, I will not release any names at this time, due to respect for them.

And I would ask you not to try to basically hunt them down and try to do interviews with them at this point, until we figure out where we're going.

I would ask you to keep our service members and their families in your thoughts and prayers. And that really concludes my comments. I would be glad to try to answer any questions that you may have.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Can you give us any details of the type of training what they were doing?

CURTIS: Well, we were supporting the Marine Corps. And so that's really about the extent that I know. We were doing lift operations for them.

I would refer you back to the Marine Corps for any details on the specifics of the missions, or the training missions they were on.

Yes, ma'am?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: I do not have that information. I have been talking to the incident command post over at Eglin, and you know, what I'm getting back from them is, is that is a search-and-rescue operation.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: I don't have the specific dates. They have been there for two -- they left Sunday? OK. They left Sunday and it was normal course of business for us to work across the services in training missions.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: Yes, sir?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: Yes. They -- now, I'm not a pilot. So I will speak from a novice standpoint, but they were very cognizant (INAUDIBLE) but, you know, (INAUDIBLE) from one station and the weather that you didn't expect, and so they (INAUDIBLE) they had several thousand hours in that cockpit, and they had several thousand combat hours in that cockpit.

But they go through simulations for all kind of situations that may come up, whether it's weather or engine problems, et cetera, et cetera, but it's standards that are required for any soldier in the Army and (INAUDIBLE) to be a helicopter pilot, they had met (INAUDIBLE) over the years. And they have to remain current.

QUESTION: Was there any call for help, do you know? (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: I do not know that. I do not know that. I think the incident command post will look into that and then there will be an investigation, pending the outcome, to see exactly what was said or not when.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: There were. There were two helicopters that were on the mission. One of them started to take off and then realized, I guess, that the weather was a condition and turned around and came back.

But they -- that helicopter and that crew and all the members on that crew are safe and sound.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: I personally won't, but I tell you that a follow-on investigation will be conducted. And they typically are very thorough when there's any type of aviation accident.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

CURTIS: I'm not aware of any recording devices that are on our Black Hawks. They do have transponders (INAUDIBLE) experts in the back.

CABRERA: We're having some technical issues, but we have been living in to this press conference with General Glenn Curtis with the Louisiana National Guard, providing some more information into the helicopter crash that happened this morning.

Overnight really is when this helicopter went missing. It was one of two Black Hawks that were on a training exercise, a training mission of some sort near the Gulf of Mexico in the Florida Panhandle, involved seven special operations forces, Marines, as well as four Army air crew members. And so the general there was really addressing those Army air crew members who were involved.

While he was not able to provide any identities, he did give us a little bit more information about their unit. He says that these were very experienced members. This unit, in fact, has been deployed to Iraq twice, has responded to Hurricane Katrina and other natural disasters. The pilots, he said, were among the very best, had the highest level of certification with thousands of hours behind the controls there.

These were UH-60 Black Hawks that they were using. Again, there were two helicopters who went out for this mission. He said one of them ended up turning back because of the foggy conditions. Now, we had heard from another military source earlier that they train in all kinds of conditions, and so it was unclear if weather indeed was involved in this particular incident. The cause of the crash is still under investigation, but priority

right now is the search-and-rescue mission. That is still under way. We have shown you some of the images of the debris that has been washing up onshore. We understand, according to military officials, they also have found human remains that have washed up onshore, and so that is the priority.

A little more information about the type of helicopter involved. We learned that the one that crashed, again, a UH-60, has a maximum speed of 173 miles per hour, and apparently it's designed to progressively crush on impact, and that that's meant to actually protect people who are inside.

So, of course, we will learn more information about what happened as the day and the days progress, but, again, this is the latest information right now on the helicopter crash this morning involving 11 members of the military. We will stay on top of it.

We are also following more breaking news, this time out of Ferguson, Missouri, and a source now telling us here at CNN that the Ferguson police chief in Missouri will resign today. This comes on the heels of other resignations. A municipal judge resigned this week. The Ferguson city manager just resigned less than 24 hours ago, all this after the Justice Department's report about a week ago that found evidence that the city of Ferguson and its police officers discriminated and targeted African-Americans.

I want to bring in CNN's Sara Sidner, who has been working the phones. Our Don Lemon is also joining us as well.

Sara, to you first. What have you learned about the timing of the chief's resignation?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're trying to get the details as what this resignation means, exactly when he will actually leave the department, if this is a resignation I'm going to leave in a week or a resignation that he will leave today. We're still working on those details.

But do now have confirmed from a source in City Hall that the police chief will resign today. And there are already people who are responding to that, those who have been calling for his resignation, saying it's about time. The protesters who live in Ferguson and outside of Ferguson in the Saint Louis area, many of them sending the messages saying that this is a long time coming and they have wanted to see this, but there are also residents that live there who did not want to see him resign, who wanted to keep the police department intact, who believed that the changes could happen and that this police chief could help make that happen.

So we should be fair that there are people who don't want to see him go. But we do know that a lot of folks who have been watching the situation have said that he needs to go for the betterment of the community. He was at the helm when all of this happened, and he was at the helm and there was mistakes that they admit that they made after the shooting of Michael Brown. And so I think there is a general sense from those who have been

following this story and very involved in it that this was an issue they wanted to see resolved. Now, according to our source, the police chief will resign today.

CABRERA: Let me turn to Don Lemon.

Don, do you think this resignation was inevitable?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I think that something had to happen. Whether it's a resignation or whether he's been forced to step down, I'm not sure, but I think something had to happen. There was so much pressure as to what was going on in Ferguson, what had happened, how it had been handled.

I had been texting with the chief, trying to get more information from him. And he's being a bit cagey. Usually, he's a bit more forthcoming, but about whether he is leaving or not. I think Sara is exactly right. I think what he wants to do before he leaves -- I don't think there's really a question about whether he is going to step down. I don't think they can continue with him.

It's a question how he's going to do it, how long it will take and whether he can get what he wants,which I think is to make sure the department is not dissolved and that Ferguson proper has a police department. Same as Sara said, many people in the community want to keep a police department. The protesters, that's a different story.

They're a different story, but I think what he wants to do is make sure is make sure that the department is still intact when he does step down.

CABRERA: And we will see, because that's still yet to be determined.

Sara, you have some more new information for us?

SIDNER: I just got this from my source, the same source that was telling us about what was going to happen today. And I now know that his resignation, it will be an immediate leaving of the department. So when the resignation is put in, he will immediately leave.

CABRERA: It won't be at the end of the week?

SIDNER: It won't be in six months from now, I resign now and I'm going to be -- this will be handing in the paperwork and the resignation, and the city obviously has to accept the resignation, which we expect to happen, but, yes, that this will be immediate.

CABRERA: If he steps down, when he steps down, who steps up? Who ends up taking over the department?

SIDNER: And that was, you know, one of the questions I think he was grappling with, because he does not want to see the department dissolved.

LEMON: If there even if a department. SIDNER: And so -- right, right. If the department is discovered, he

wanted to prevent that from happening, but it's not his place. He can't determine that at this point.

The DOJ has talked about the fact they think Ferguson can work this out if they're willing to work with the Department of Justice to try and solve some of the issues that were raised. They have not said they're going to completely get rid of this department or put themselves in position to have a mandate over this department.

The department has said and the city has said that we will work with the DOJ. We have been working with the DOJ. Their intention is to keep the department in place. There are other factors going on. Saint Louis County, a lot of people talking about that taking over the department. But they are not without criticism, because that department was the department that brought in some of the military equipment.

It wasn't Ferguson that brought the military equipment in.

CABRERA: That department has been criticized for the response to the protests.

SIDNER: The response to the protests.

CABRERA: Right.

SIDNER: A lot of folks are talking about, well, who's going to take care of this problem? It's something the city will have to work out. If the department stays intact, which they fully expect it will because they're working with the DOJ, they need to find the person, the right person to head the department to try to make things happen so the community hat more trust in its department.

CABRERA: Sara Sidner and Don Lemon, stay with me. Stand by. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, we will continue the conversation and we're also going to play a chunk of an interview that I did with the police chief not too long ago, one of the few one- on-ones he's really given since this whole scandal broke, this whole situation has been brewing.

We will be right back with that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Continue to follow breaking news out of Ferguson, Missouri, the Ferguson police chief, Tom Jackson, is said to resign sometime today.

I want to bring back Sara Sidner and Don Lemon, who have been working their sources trying to gather more information and get more specifics about exactly when this is going to happen and what the final straw was that led to this decision.

But before we talk to them, let's play a little of sound with the police chief. First, you're going to hear a little bit of sound with the police chief from an interview I did with him at the end of September, shortly after he apologized to the community for everything that had transpired with Michael brown prior to the DOJ report that just came out slamming his department.

And then immediately after that sound, you will hear some sound with Sara Sidner talking to the police chief last week after that report came out. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Are you aware of at least some of the vocal people, protesters included, who would like to see you removed from your position?

THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: Sure, I have and I have talked to a lot of those people and I have talked to a lot of people who have initially called for that, and then have changed their mind after having meetings and discussions about moving forward. Realistically, I'm going to stay here and see this through.

SIDNER: Don't you think you should have known some of the things that came out? The racist e-mails, the numbers. Were you just trying to bill people out of money, instead of protecting them, telling your department to just go ticket them?

JACKSON: OK. Thank you and I will be in touched. Get a hold of Jeff.

SIDNER: I have talked to everyone. I have given you literally every opportunity. We've been talking for days and days and days. All we want is an answer from you.

JACKSON: I'm going to analyze the report and take action where necessary. OK?

SIDNER: Does that mean you're going to stay around?

JACKSON: I'm going to take action where necessary. OK? Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Sara Sidner, Don Lemon back with me.

Don, I want to get your response in terms of this police chief, and his intentions seemed to be good when I talked to him. But, ultimately, it seemed the trust of the community is broken.

LEMON: Yes.

It's interesting, because all three of us, you, Sara and I, have all interviewed him. I did in the beginning, you in September, and Sara just recently, which is a great interview, Sara. I think you have gotten more out of him than anyone else, but basically he has said the same thing all along, since the very beginning, when this happened. When we were there in August, he said, I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to continue to deal with this. I will look at the reports, because remember, then, Saint Louis county had taken over the police department and he -- they had taken over dealing with the Michael Brown protesters and what have you.

So his department had been basically left to do not much in the community, right, except for go on a couple of calls. So I think his position has remained the same over time, even with the Department of Justice. He is now saying -- he won't confirm himself, but through sources, he won't confirm that he is leaving, hinting that he might.

And I think that there are things he wants to get out of this. Obviously, I'm sure he probably doesn't want to leave without anything, at least monetarily or financially or some promises at least. I think it's going to be tough for him and I think it's going to be tough for the department.

And I wanted to comment on what you guys said earlier about who's going to take over the department. That's really going to be hard as well. Saint Louis County does have a great police chief, but there has been some controversy around him as well. We may very well end up -- I don't know if this is going to happen, but we may very well end up seeing the Department of Justice come in and there -- a complete takeover of this police department.

We will have to see how it plays out.

CABRERA: Sara, you have to wonder, could anybody in that department effectively police that community after this DOJ report came out?

SIDNER: I mean, the answer to that, it remains to be seen. I don't know the answer to that, but you would think so.

I mean, police departments exist all over this country and there aren't these kinds of controversies that bubble up. You have to have a very open department. And I think one of the things that people have asked for is community policing, which a lot of departments are putting in place. We saw Los Angeles do that. Right?

After the riots there in Los Angeles, the Rodney King riots, the department started saying, OK, we need to start doing some other things so that we are in the community as much as patrolling the community and so that people know some of the officers. And that has been a constant theme that you hear people talking about, that the officers don't live in Ferguson, that there is no communication other than negative communication between some of the residents.

But, you know, to Don's point where he talked about who's going to replace him, the city has to be very careful in what they do. Whether or not they're going to fold, whether or not the DOJ is going to come in, look, they have said themselves, the Department of Justice has said we think that Ferguson can fix some of these issues. We are willing to work with Ferguson. And Ferguson has turned around and said, we are willing to work with the Department of Justice.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: They have expressed desire to try make things better. SIDNER: They have. They have.

CABRERA: But I wonder, Don, if it's possible, given the deep, deep, deep level of distrust or mistrust among the community members, particularly the African-American members of that community. I mean, has too much damage been done?

LEMON: I think anything is possible.

I think there's been a lot of damage. But, you know, we're talking about this police chief. I really think, at this point, and I'm sure Sara will agree with me. I don't want to speak for you , but I think it really hinges on what Chief Jackson does. If he goes willingly, if he is cooperative, then, you know, he can set a precedent for things to be better. If he says, if he goes kicking and screaming or, you know, and starts to say negative things about the department or -- it's all really in the way he handles it, I think, from this moment forward.

Here we are now, there's been a lot of damage, a lot of damage. But we're at this moment right now. So if there is to be a positive change with the police department, then at this moment, it needs to come from Chief Jackson. He needs to step forward and say, you know what? I may not have done a lot of things right. You may disagree with me, what have you. I thought I was doing things -- or at least try to explain himself.

But then, if he is to go, if our reporting is correct, then he needs to go and go in a positive manner, instead of a negative manner.

CABRERA: All right, Don Lemon, Sara Sidner, we will have to end it there. Thank you so much.

And, of course, don't forget to watch Don tonight. He's on "CNN TONIGHT" at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

Up next: One of the ringleaders in the racist fraternity video apologizes, says the song was taught to him, and he blames alcohol as well, but what his expulsion from the university a violation of free speech? We will debate.

Plus, sickening reports that ISIS lulled its hostages into a sense of calm before they were murdered by conducting mock executions over and over, this as ISIS leaks another video showing a child killing a hostage.

Stay with me.

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