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Two Police Officers Wounded during Ferguson Protest

Aired March 12, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: At about 8:15 last night, protesters started blocking South Florissant Road in front of the PD. Ferguson called a code 1000, which means the closest 25 cars that could be available to assist them, at 8:27. Approximately 150 protesters were located in the roadway. Fifteen police officers on the scene. At 9:00, Ferguson makes one arrest of a protester in the roadway on the charges of failure to comply, being in the roadway, endangering the welfare of a child, and resisting or interfering with arrest. Protesters leave the roadway.

At 10:00, due to the amount of people that are in the roadway, another code 1000, additional 25 officers come in. Eventually we end up with 69 police officers that respond. At 10:30 Ferguson makes an additional arrest of a protester in the roadway. At 11:15 they make a final arrest.

Now at this point we are beginning to see the crowd begin to diminish. In fact, by about quarter to midnight we're beginning to see not only the crowd beginning to leave, but we're also seeing the police officers that are going to be leaving, at least some of them. I would imagine we had 75 protesters, probably 40 police officers left at this time. So we're thinking that it's thinning out.

At 12:00 a.m. we hear three shots, three or four shots ring out. Some of you have seen that on the media. These are shots that aren't in the air, they're not in the ground. One way you can tell is when you listen to the audio you can actually hear those shots singing. Those shots immediately strike two officers who are standing next to each other. But I'd like to underscore that these officers are also standing in a line of at least 20 to 25 officers.

We have a group of officers standing there. It's very evident that we have a group of officers standing there. The Webster Groves officer is shot right here, with the high point of your cheek, right under the right eye. And the bullet lodges right behind his ear. And that bullet is still with him. He's going to have to have further evaluation to figure out what they're going to do with that round.

The St. Louis County officer was struck right here on the shoulder, and the bullet came out the middle of his right back, between his scapula and his spine. Fortunately for both officers we don't have any remarkable long-term injuries. In other words, there wasn't in somebody's brain or heart or anything like this. But you need to know, these two officers took a very hard hit. Any time that you're shot in the face and have a bullet lodged in

your head, any time that you have a through-and-through wound where the bullet enters your shoulder and comes out the middle of your right back, those are hard hits. So we're lucky, by God's grace, we didn't lose two officers last night.

So one of the things that I've talked about is that we do need to understand as a community, and we certainly understand it as a police department and as law enforcement, that we have an obligation to make sure that folks that want to express their First Amendment rights have the ability to do that. But when you look at the tenor of at least some of the people that are involved in the protests or civil unrest, it at times can be very troubling.

And it's difficult for the officers to discern within a crowd of folks that are perhaps there for the right reason exactly who is doing what. And one of the -- one of the problems we have is, similar to last night, I would have to imagine that these protesters were among the shooters who shot at the police officers. And for the police officers that are standing there and really don't have the ability at nighttime to understand what they're looking at.

It's dark, there's a whole lot of people out there, there's a lot of noise, it's very difficult for the officers to really understand what they're looking at, at the time, and really to be able to evaluate any type of threats. So, you know, I would just tell you that you need to understand that. I think it's a miracle that we haven't had any instances similar to this over the summer and fall.

With the amount of gunfire that we would hear, that I personally heard last summer and fall, I think it's a miracle we haven't had something like this happen. And I think we're very fortunate that that has happened.

I'd also like to point out that my officers tell me that when this happened, when they heard the shots and when they heard the bullets singing past, they saw muzzle flashes. And these muzzle flashes were probably about 125 yards away. Many officers drew their weapons but no officers fired.

What if we're in a situation where it's 25 or 50 yards away, and it's a threat right there in front of you that can be engaged except we're around a situation where perhaps 30, 50, 60, 70 people are around? I mean, we really need to understand the dangers of this. And I'm not blaming anybody other than the -- other than the individuals that took a shot at my officers and hit them.

But I am telling you that these are situations that it's very difficult for us to navigate through if you're a police officer on the street and you're doing everything you can to protect people's First Amendment rights, everything you can to protect other people's rights that may be traveling through the area, anything that you can be doing to protect life and property.

This is another layer that makes it very difficult for our police officers out there to deal with. And I hope people understand that because it's a very tricky line for us to be able to walk.

Ladies and gentlemen, we were very close to having happen what happened in NYPD with Officer Ramos and Officer Liu. We could have buried two police officers next week over this. And I didn't really expect the amount of agitation at times that we saw last night out of the crowd based on the news that happened yesterday, and not everybody there expressed agitation.

But we certainly are always cautious, but I didn't expect obviously either that we would have two police officers shot last night.

One of the officers from St. Louis County is a 41-year-old, a 14- year veteran of law enforcement. The Webster Groves officer is 32 years old and is a five-year veteran of law enforcement.

So I'll answer any questions that you have.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any update about the suspects who did this? Who you are potentially looking for?

BELMAR: Yes, you know, we have some perhaps leaves on that. I'm going to leave that alone at the time, let the detectives work. They're still out in the field right now. In fact, the lieutenant, the sergeant and his staff have still not had time to come in to Clayton to even brief me. So we have talked to them on the phone.

As you might imagine, this is the number one priority right now of the St. Louis County Police Department, to identify these individuals. That individual or individuals who shot our police officers.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But no one is in custody.

BELMAR: No, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shot was 125 yards away, what degree of confidence do you have that this was even associated with the protest rather than just taking protest as an opportunity to try to shoot a cop?

BELMAR: Yes. I talked to my staff about that in detail because I kind of -- I had the same question about why this is. There are indications that would lead us to believe that obviously some of the folks that were there to participate last night, you know, in expressing their opinions, they were spread over a wider area than just confined, and that did extend not only to the north and the south, but also to the west.

So I feel very confident that whoever did this was there for the wrong reason, not the right reason, and came there for whatever nefarious reason it was. But I do feel like there was an unfortunate association with that gathering.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chief, you mentioned kind of this almost impossible task when you have officers standing on a line, almost like sitting ducks, and you have folks who are protesting.

How do you -- have you thought yet about how you're going to go about this differently? Is there anything at all you can do differently, and also can you speak to the concern from law enforcement's part that you don't want any of officers to be too aggressive now or too quick to react now because of what happened?

BELMAR: Yes. I will actually back up to the last part of that question. I sent a text last night out to two of my senior staff members, two of my lieutenant colonels that said, listen, our bearing this evening is going to be very measured. You know, so we want to make sure we don't cross that line and do anything that we shouldn't be doing as law enforcement and we protect those people's rights.

How is it going to look differently? You know, we have some experience on this, the county police department does, in running some of the operations last fall and during the grand jury verdict and before and different things like that. So we're going to be exploring avenues to perhaps readopt those plans that we have. So one of the things with the code 1000 plan that calls the closest 25 cars in and maybe a code 2000 that causes another 25 to come, that's really not a plan. That's reactive.

And I think it's incumbent upon myself as the chief to make sure that we come up with a good plan to protect the community and also to protect the police officers out there.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is the county police (INAUDIBLE) -- is there a chance for existing Ferguson police officers and staff to go under the county umbrella at this point?

BELMAR: I guess there's that chance out there. I think the better way to answer that question is, had we not been in any sort of official talks with Ferguson regarding that issue? And as the police chief of St. Louis County, I have an obligation to make sure that no resident in St. Louis County is without competent law enforcement and that the police department has to make sure that we provide that to anywhere in the county to include Ferguson.

I have a question over here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you expect to send any more officers out tonight to the provide security around the Ferguson Police Department?

BELMAR: I do. You know, I mean, I don't know if we're going to have any issues tonight. But I -- please remember we have a responsibility. These officers took an oath to protect life and property. And these are some of the things that we're expected to do. And it's unfortunate when these things happen.

Law enforcement is at times a very dangerous proposition. But, you know, it's incumbent upon me and my staff to make sure that we're doing things to where we give our officers the best chance to succeed all the way around.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How do we (INAUDIBLE)?

BELMAR: Well, you know, one of the things that I'm anxious to do right now and I've already talked to my staff about it, is get a hold of some of my community leaders out there to talk to those folks again. I think that's critically important. You know, there's been -- there's been an insertion out there that perhaps some of the leaders that we have don't necessarily have leverage perhaps over some folks that may do certain things.

But shame on us if we don't continue those conversations. And those conversations have been ongoing. I just think it's the police chief that's going to be very important to send those community leaders back in, in the next day or so at the latest, and go, hey, listen, these are my issues, I need to bring you up to speed on this. What ideas do you have as we move forward that can assist the police department and thereby assist the community. Because that's really what we're there for.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you happen to know what gun was used in this?

BELMAR: We feel like it's a -- it's a pistol handgun. We recovered some shell casings up in the area. We don't know 100 percent yet if those are going to be the shell casings that are going to be attributed to this shooting, so -- but we do believe it's a handgun based on the way the shots sounded and the injuries to the police officers did not appear to be rifle ones.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you learned anything from talking to any of the protesters that were there last night and about, you know, suspects possibly?

BELMAR: Yes. We talked to several people there. That's part of the investigation that I won't go into. But it was certainly an opportunity for us to talk to some folks, and I think there's been -- I think it would not be an overstatement to tell you that there has been several people that have been very forthright with the investigation. So that's certainly encouraging.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The purpose of the protesters last night say this was a rowdier than normal crowd. Can you speak to that? I mean, was this a more violent crowd than normal?

BELMAR: Yes. It was pretty rowdy. I mean, I think that's pretty clear. You know, I think some people might have seen the reports of fist fights and different things like that. Some things are relative, you know, we've had nights where it's been much worse. But at the end of the day I really did not expect last night when I first started monitoring this that it was going to spin, you know, to the extent that it did regarding the agitation.

So, well, you try to respect those things, but sometimes it's very difficult to figure out. You know, we saw a report about the fact that there were rocks and bottles being thrown. I frankly have not been able to confirm that myself. So I don't know if that happened or not. But I think it is true that there was agitation within the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Please --

BELMAR: I got this one right here, I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can the county executive answer any questions about whether he's had any conversations with Mayor Knowles about using enforcement?

BELMAR: Yes. I'll turn it over to the county executive in just a second. First some comments. You guys can finish up with me. Ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now, I know that you guys have been receiving threats since this summer. Is this in line with any of those threats?

BELMAR: Categorize that for me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just some of the things that we've heard as far as, you know, police being threatened, you know.

BELMAR: Yes, I mean --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Actions that people are going to take as revenge, things like this.

BELMAR: Right. And some of this is gathered, for example, through intelligence or we hear things or however we were able to glean that information out. But obviously some of the threats are very lurid. I mean, there's somebody standing a foot away from an officer that is expressing to them that, you know, there's -- they would like to do bad things to that police officer. So we're certainly well aware of that.

And again, I think it's incumbent upon us to try to do the best we can to craft something to where everything works for everybody and we don't have these issues that spin out of control. The responsibility of last night's shooting lies with whoever did that shooting. I want to be very clear about that. But it is at times, like I said, a very difficult environment for us to work in.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Going back to what you said earlier, I mean, at this point what is next? A lot of people want to know what can you do now moving forward. I know you talked about some ideas but what else?

BELMAR: Yes. We're going to have to take a look at the security plan up there again, similar to what we did last fall. I think that's part of it. I think community engagement is part of it. And I also think this has really been in the news cycle a whole lot lately. I understand why.

You know, we started off with the court clerk, and then it went to, you know, two police officers, that went to the city manager. Now we're dealing with the chief who has stepped down. It just kind of seems like that it's always in the public -- you know, always in somebody's mind right now. And I think so part of this I would hope, you know, would get down to where we could continue to have civil discourse about this the right way. And I think that perhaps only time maybe will satisfy that. We'll have to see.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

BELMAR: Yes, you know what, I would like to tell you I have more confidence in the community than that right now, and I believe that I do. So, you know, these are -- I wouldn't shut the door to the fact that I'm going to certainly ask for assistance, you know, manpower assistance regarding, you know, helping as we do some things, for example, different. But I have to count on my municipalities to be there doing it for the right reasons.

I have to be able to count on the highway patrol. As you know, my over time bill from August through the 17th day of December on Ferguson was over $5 million. So these are expensive propositions for us. And we would certainly -- we need the assistance anywhere we can get it with these very good law enforcement agencies that come to the assistance of Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chief, would you consider this -- what happened last night just a random act, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Is it like -- was this just a random shooting? You know, like as much as you can plan on security and whatnot, if someone just wants to go on a hill and shoot -- I mean, how would you, like, roadblock those areas (INAUDIBLE). But is this a random thing?

BELMAR: You're right. This is really an ambush is what it is. I mean, you know, you can't see it coming. You don't understand that it's going to happen. And you're basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you at the time. And that is something that is very difficult to guard against when you have a group of officers standing in a large group and then you have gunfire, certainly gunfire directed at them.

I would like to also point out, however, last night, the only gunfire we had was the actual incident where the officers were struck. Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You just brought up all the overtime your officers have been working and, you know, last night is an ambush. Can you talk a little bit about just the morale of your officers right now?

BELMAR: Yes. You know, I think the morale is pretty good with the officers. But I'll tell you what, I'll just be -- I'll tell you what I'm thinking, I was certainly shaken up about this, at midnight when the phone rang. So I think that's natural for the officers, certainly to be very cautious about their well-being and different things like that. But I have a tremendous amount of confidence in St. Louis County Police Department as Captain Nelson has with the Webster Groves Police Department.

These guys are going to be out there doing the right things for the right reasons. So they understand that it's a dangerous job. And they certainly need to hold me responsible to make sure I can make it as safe as -- as safe as possible for them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any out there looking for weapons in sewers or what (INAUDIBLE)?

BELMAR: They could be. But I don't know that. I can't answer that question right now.

Captain Basher, do we have anything to display or it never worked out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have the photos.

BELMAR: You send them off?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had photos from the crime scene.

BELMAR: So I just wanted to tell you that one of the photos you're going to get is that the Webster Groves officer was wearing a riot helmet. He had his lit up, the face mask was up. And we got some of those photographs that you can look at that basically demonstrates the blood splatter from when he was hit in the face that splashes up against the inside of that face guard.

So again, I have a lot of confidence in the community. I understand exercising people's First Amendment rights, but I'm going to be honest with you, this is beginning at times to be very difficult for any law enforcement agency anywhere to really wrap their arms around.

I want everybody here to understand how difficult this is to do it the exact perfect way. Very tough.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

BELMAR: You know, I did. Yes, I got to talk to both of them. I know Captain Nelson talked to both of them, too. The officers, you know, both of them had just been shot. They were with their families. It was fortunate that the families could be there. They were hanging in there. One of my officers who was in a tremendous amount of pain with that wound going in his shoulder and coming out his back.

Again, those officers are good guys. I'm proud of them. And I got to leave it with that.

County Executive Stenger?

STEVE STENGER, ST. LOUIS COUNTY EXECUTIVE: Sure. I'm primarily here just to express our deep support and our concern for the families and the individuals who were shot last night, our officers and the officers of the Webster Groves Police Department. And I'm free to answer any questions you might have.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you had any discussions at all with Mr. Knowles about the possibility of the county coming in and taking over --

STENGER: Well, you know, I have had multiple discussions with Mayor Knowles over I'd say a two-week period. And certainly that subject has been talked about. And I have offered him all of our assistance that we have. And as you can see and as you've heard today, we have certainly stood ready and have performed when asked to step in and help out and we'll continue to do that in any capacity needed.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Stenger, as a county executive, I mean, what's your expectation now of how, given what's happened last night, what do you hope to see with how law enforcement reacts and conducts themselves?

STENGER: I think the way the department have conducted themselves last night was exemplarily. I think they conducted themselves exceptionally in the face of two officers being shot. And I trust that that will continue. I have full faith that that will. And I think that's how it will move forward in the future.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And just going back to what -- your discussions with Mayor Knowles, would you prefer to see St. Louis County tabling of the police in Ferguson?

STENGER: I'm not going to say at this point that I would prefer to see that. I would just like to see a solution as we move forward that is in the best interest of the residents of Ferguson and our county and our police department.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: County Executive --

STENGER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will you please walk us through when you found out and your first initial reactions to what happened last night?

STENGER: I got a call from the chief and he briefed me on the incident, I was immediately moved, I was deeply concerned for the officers' well-being. And we've stayed in touch throughout the early morning hours leading up to our meeting here today.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You've spoken to Mayor Knowles several times in the last two weeks, just to follow up if you've spoken to him since the shooting last night?

STENGER: I have not spoken to him since the shooting last night. But I intend to speak with him this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What is your message to your constituents, the people, after right now? What are you going to tell them about tonight moving forward, about this and what -- how they should react?

STENGER: Well, you know, I believe that the community along with me is deeply concerned for the welfare of the officers. And certainly we'd like to see a safe environment where people can express their First Amendment rights. And you know, situations like this and incidents like this are extremely unfortunate. And we certainly hope that we can avoid these in the future. And I know that our police department and all the other departments involved are going to see to that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Specifically, if you just -- any ramping up of the situation, how are you going to be able to (INAUDIBLE)?

STENGER: Well, you know, we're dealing with many individuals in our community. And certainly words can certainly help, but these are individual choices that are made, and the only thing that I can say is that I, and I believe the rest of the community, wants to see individuals express their First Amendment rights in ways that are non- violent and that don't lead to violence and that everybody just needs to keep cool heads. And we certainly want to avoid situations like this.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is there any possibility that (INAUDIBLE)?

STENGER: That has not been discussed at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It seems like, you know, over the past week, a lot of the news that's come out hopeful that there's going to be change and to get people, you know, starting to heal and moving forward peacefully. How much of a setback (INAUDIBLE) --

STENGER: I don't consider this incident a setback toward healing. I think it's an extremely unfortunate incident. It deals with two particular individuals who were shot, two police officers who were shot in the line of their duty. So to that extent I don't believe it's going to affect any healing process that's going on in the community. I think that the community at large is fully supportive of these officers and probably wishes the very best for them. And I think everyone with reasonable minds wants to avoid situations like this.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: If you are through with Mr. Stenger, (INAUDIBLE), we appreciate it.

STENGER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're going to jump away from this and talk more about it. But first I'd like to welcome our viewers from around the world. I'd also like to bring in Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, Joe Johns, our senior Washington correspondent and Bernard Kerik, former commissioner of the New York Police Department.

Welcome to all of you.

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL (D), MISSOURI STATE SENATE: Thank you. COSTELLO: Commissioner, I'd like to start with you and talk

about these officers because the chief outlined their injuries, and one of them was shot in the head, right by his right eye, the bullet went and lodged behind his ear. And the police chief intimated that his -- the shield over his face protected him somewhat and it's the reason that he survived. In fact, the St. Louis County Police Department posted these pictures on their Facebook page.

And I want people to take a look right now. Can we put those up? And you can see the shield and you can see the blood spatters on that shield. And the chief made very much of the fact that he wanted people to see these pictures.

Why do you think that is so, Commissioner?

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: Well, I think what happens is, you know, to the general public, I don't think they understand how close these guys came to being killed. That round went in just below his eye and lodged in the back of his ear. Had it been off by two inches, an inch and a half, and hit his brain or in the top two inches, the middle two inches of his forehead, he'd be dead right now.

The other guy, I think, got hit in shoulder. I don't know if he was wearing a vest. Had that round dropped two or three inches, it could have hit him in the heart or some other vital area where he would have been dead.

I think the biggest thing that the chief is trying to do is make people understand the danger that these guys faced. These rounds, these shots were unprovoked. They came from an assassin, an attempted assassin, somewhere 125 yards away. This wasn't random shooting. They were aimed directly at these cops, so 125 yards is a football field and a quarter away from the cops.

This was a direct assault on these cops, intended to kill these cops. And I think the chief is trying to make that point.

COSTELLO: And he also said, Commissioner, it's very hard to protect yourself. This was an ambush. So he wanted the whole community to understand that it would be difficult in future protest scenarios to do things the exact right way. What was he trying to say?

KERIK: Well, you know what, Carol? I mean, think back to the early days of the Ferguson protests. Started out with peaceful protests, the officers came in with heavy equipment and armored vehicles. They were criticized. Then the aftermath of those protests led to substantial confrontations. The officers have to protect themselves. The officers have to be protected.

I think the chief is in a position now where he -- you know, he wants to put his guys out there, put his men and women out there to protect the people of Ferguson, to allow people to protest peacefully, but also has to, keep in mind, that there are -- you know, there are people out there that want to cause death and devastation to the community. And he's got to keep his people protected. So it's going to be a delicate balance for him to do that.

COSTELLO: Senator, I'd like to address the next question to you, because the chief also said that these protests, this protest in particular, there was an ugly mood from the get-go. If you take a look at -- if you take a look at pictures from in front of the police department last night, you could see chalk drawings on the sidewalk, someone had written in chalk on the sidewalk, "Pigs, kill yourself."

Have the protests turned more ugly even though officials are resigning, at least six of them so far?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, first of all, I would like to send my heartfelt prayers to the police officers and their families and every single mother who has lost her black son because of police brutality.

I would have to tell you that when people act in an irresponsible way creating violence in bad situations, it is not good to anyone. And I listened to the chief earlier today, Chief Belmar. And one of the things that he was talking about is an ambush. And this is the same feeling, the same language that many of my constituents have felt for a very long time, under attack, being harassed consistently for years on end, not having any hope whatsoever.

So if someone is drawing something on the ground, that is a non- violent way to express oneself. But I do not condone --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Some people would think that as a threat.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, here's what I would have to say, a threat is when someone is shooting a police officer which is terrible. We don't want any more lives to be taken, absolutely not. What we have to deal with is the anger and the hurt still existing on both sides. We want to protect people who are peacefully protesting as well as protect officers who are abiding by the law.

And so we're going to have to sit down and have this conversation, and anyone who is acting violently, they are going to have to come to terms that no one is going to accept them, not even the peaceful protesters.