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Tactical Operation; Eric Holder Speech; Obama Condemns Violence; Officers Shot

Aired March 12, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here on CNN on this Thursday.

I have to begin with two officers shot, a manhunt now underway. The question is, what will happen tonight in Ferguson, Missouri? Police there have now come under attack in a way, according to protesters, they never wanted. One officer was shot in the face, another hit in his shoulder. All of this happened around midnight as people were leaving this demonstration in front of the Ferguson Police Department.

I want to show you another photo that we have now seen today. This is the helmet of one of the men, one of those officers who was shot. Both officers, we're being told, are now actually out of the hospital. A protester captured the shooting on video. Here it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Acknowledgement nine months ago would have kept that from happening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). OK, there was just gunfire and now cops have guns drawn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now to this afternoon, S.W.A.T. teams here swarming a home in connection with this manhunt. We have more on that in just a moment.

But that raid happened less than two hours after the chief of the St. Louis County Police described what happened to one of his men. The chief said the shooter was about 125 yards way. Think about it, that's a football field and a quarter, taking aim from a hill likely with a handgun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: This is really an ambush is what it is. I mean, you know, you can't see it coming. You don't understand that it's going to happen and you're basically defenseless from the fact that it is happening to you at the time. And that is something that is very difficult to guard against when you have a group of officers standing in a - in a large group and then, you know, you have gunfire - certainly gunfire directed at them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And the timing of all of this, this could also be significant as well. Because, keep in mind, these two officers came under fire just hours after the Ferguson police chief resigned. And that came in response to a Department of Justice report that found his force and the city of Ferguson were rife with racists and profiteering practices.

We are expecting any moment now actually comments from the attorney general himself, from Eric Holder, on what's happening in Ferguson and also beyond. We'll see that as soon as that happens.

But, first, let me go live to Ferguson, to Jason Carroll, who's been there off and on for months and months.

And let's begin, Jason, with this home and this tactical operation. What exactly happened there?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was this morning. And just so I can set the scene for you, this home here on Dade (ph) Avenue is located just about a half a mile from the police station there in Ferguson.

Basically what happened is, early this morning, about 7:00, a little thereafter, this house behind me here was surrounded by police and S.W.A.T. team as well. Now, when we got out here, I spoke to a woman, Iris Turner (ph). Her granddaughter actually lives inside this house. And I said her, I said, what exactly happened here? She said, her granddaughter was at that protest last night. She says that she heard the gunfire. And the minute she heard the gunfire, she called her grandmother. Her grandmother told her to get home as soon as possible. So she tore out of there and came home.

This morning, her grandmother gets a call saying, your house is surrounded, get over here. By the time she got out here, she found out that her granddaughter, 23 years old, Iresha Turner (ph), had been taken in for questioning and neighbors say two other men who were inside the home were taken in for questioning as well in connection with the shooting.

The grand - her grandmother says that there is no way in the world that her granddaughter was involved with this. She was very upset about what was going on. Not just with what happened last night, but Ferguson over the past few months. I spoke to her just a few moments ago. I want you to take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IRIS TURNER, GRANDMOTHER OF WOMAN DETAINED: It's just too much going on. I'm already stressed out. It's just too much stuff going on with these kids. It's just crazy. It's so crazy that these kids up there protesting and doing this. They need to be at home. That's where they need to be, in the house. All this is - it's uncalled for what's going on. It's really uncalled for. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Now, Brooke, even also a short while ago they took me inside the house to see what it looked like inside. You could see very clearly that police had been inside, had torn things up. I'd asked what they were looking for. Her grandmother says, quite possibly they were looking for a gun, but she says there are no guns here in this house. We'll have to see what happens with that.

I also asked, Brooke, why her granddaughter was targeted. Why this house.

BALDWIN: Right.

CARROLL: She said that police told her that they noticed her speeding out of the scene last night and that they had followed her to this location, but her grandmother says the reason why she sped out of there last night is because the minute after the gunfire erupted, she called her and she told her to get out of there as fast as she can.

BALDWIN: Listen, we know investigators are combing through everything from that scene, from shell casings to eyewitnesses. And as we mentioned, as you've been reporting, questioning a couple of people. We'll see what happens as a result of that.

Jason Carroll, my thanks to you.

We have heard from a couple of prominent voices in the wake of these shootings. Even Michael Brown's own parents condemning this morning's senseless shooting of the two Ferguson police officers. We have more on that.

But now we're also hearing from the attorney general, Eric Holder, watching and waiting to see if he makes any comments on what's happened in Ferguson in the last 24 hours. Let's dip in.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good afternoon.

CROWD: Good afternoon.

HOLDER: I want to thank you all for being here this afternoon. But I want to first address the heinous and cowardly attacks that occur against two brave law enforcement officers in Ferguson, Missouri, just last night.

I want to be very clear here. I unequivocally condemn these repugnant attacks. I know all of us in the law enforcement family and all American really across the country are praying for the safe recovery of their - those two officers. And I stand ready to offer the full investigative resources of the United States Department of Justice, the FBI, to solve this crime and to hold these perpetrators fully, fully accountable.

Now, my brother is a retired law enforcement officer and he always tells me that cops have the right, you know, to come home at night, you know? And that's exactly right. These are people who protect us, who keep us safe and they have the right, they have the right to come home at night.

You know, seeing this attack last night really kind of turned my stomach because in the last week since the Justice Department released its pattern and practice report on Ferguson, I thought we'd begun to see really important signs of progress. There were good faith steps being taken within the city's leadership to move in a new, more cooperative direction that I think is beneficial to law enforcement and to community residents. But make no mistake, we still have, you know, we still have a long way to go to bringing about the systemic change that is needed and that is long overdue in that area. But I think the early indications have really truly been positive.

But what happened last night was a - was a pure ambush. What happened last night was a pure ambush. This was not someone trying to bring healing to Ferguson. This was - this was a damn punk, a punk, who was trying to sow discord in an area that is trying to get its act together and trying to bring together a community that has been fractured for too long.

This really disgusting and cowardly attack might have been intended to unravel any sense of progress that exists, but I hope that that does not, in fact, happen. Incidents like the one we have witnessed throw into sharp belief why, you know, conversations like the one that we've convened today and that we're going to be having to build trust between law enforcement and the communities that they serve are really so important.

A year ago, the Obama administration launched the groundbreaking My Brother's Keeper Initiative, which seeks to create opportunities for all young people in this country to improve their lives and to reach their full potential. And we have here some - some wonderful young - young people. Gerard (ph) is the guy who the president talked about at my going away party I guess last week or so when he described him as a future attorney general of the United States. He also cracked about, you know, his disqualifying haircut, but I think his hair - I'm going to disagree with the president. I think his hair looks just - just fine. His mom is here with us, as well. Where's - and she was responsible for I think -

BALDWIN: All right, so very clearly the attorney general here of the United States, Eric Holder, not mincing words at all, speaking of the last 24 hours, the attacks really, the attempted assassinations of these two police officers in Ferguson, Missouri, his words, "pure ambush," "heinous," "cowardly," "repugnant." He said they will pour in federal resources to find these people responsible and seek justice. That coming from Eric Holder, all the while he's sitting there today because he's announcing these six cities from model programs in which community and police force should work together. So that's happening on one level.

We have also now heard from President Barack Obama. He, too, has weighed in on the shootings for the very first time via his Twitter page. So let's go to our senior Washington correspondent, Joe Johns, for that.

Joe, we've heard from Eric Holder. What did the president say? JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, this

tweet was signed with the president's initials, which essentially means that he was the person who authored the tweet and not, for example, some staffer. It said, "violence against police is unacceptable. Our prayers are with the officers in Missouri. Path to justice is one all of us must travel together." So the president weighing in, as well, adding his words to the words of the attorney general, which I thought were quite strong, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Incredibly, incredibly strong, speaking about even his own retired law enforcement brother and how members of our law enforcement across the country should be able to know they get to go home at night.

Joe Johns, thank you so much.

I want to take you now back to Ferguson. My colleague, Don Lemon, is there now.

And, Don, I mean let's just perspective, first of all. All of this really began just about 24 hours ago when the police chief announced his resignation and then everything else happened from there.

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he announced his - yes, absolutely. And it's a bit odd that this would happen because it would seem that the protesters in some way, some of the people in the community had gotten what they wanted because Chief Jackson, Tom Jackson, had resigned. He said he resigned on his own. He didn't - you know, he did it - he wasn't forced. Not sure how much truth there is to that, but he - it was expected that he would step down, just didn't know when. He did it yesterday. So that did happen.

But then, just a couple of hours later, in the middle of the night, gunshots here at the Ferguson Police Department. And, Brooke, can I just show you where they believe this happened? So, the last time we were here, we were here in August and we were here the times before. If you look over here at this sign where these two big billboards here, to the left of that, if you go to the left of that, that is that hill. That's where we were sort of staked out.

The hill goes up so steeply that you can get onto the roof of the building in the back of the building because the hill goes up so steeply. So last time when we were here, when everyone was tear gassed and what have you, that's where the media hoard was. That's where they believe the gunshots came from, somewhere over there on that hill.

And then if you come back around here, you see the fire station, you see the municipal building, the municipal court building, and then the Ferguson Police Department. So the police officers were standing over where those officers are, somewhere in that area, and that's where the officers were hit. So that's - and I'll get out of the way so you can see. You see that -- where it says "City of Ferguson Police Department"? That's where they believe the officers were in that area.

So here we are again, you know, in March, back in Ferguson, Missouri, this time for shooting a police officer, not necessarily shooting for an unarmed man, an unarmed teenager, which brought us here the first time.

BALDWIN: And just hearing from the St. Louis County police chief today, looking at the picture of one of the officer's helmet, seeing the blood spatter, realizing had that shot hit two inches above, it could have hit his brain.

LEMON: Right.

BALDWIN: He would be dead.

You have this which has happened. We have heard now from Eric Holder. We've heard from President Barack Obama. Tell me, Don, I mean, I don't know how long your feet have touched the ground in Ferguson before we popped you on TV, but what is the sense among community members as far as what happens next? I imagine this is a community torn over wanting to totally rebuild this police department versus just removing a few of these officers.

LEMON: I got here not long ago, but I've been speaking to people since - since this all started and especially yesterday in light of Chief Jackson resigning. And the sense is, is that many people in the community would like to have a police department, a Ferguson Police Department Proper, but they want changes. A lot of people said they would like to have a diverse police chief come in. They're doing a national search for a police chief now. They would like to see a black police chief or maybe an Hispanic police chief or someone who at least fits the demographics of the community.

Don't know what's going to happen. You have to talk to the people who are in charge of looking for that and that's the Department of Justice. I would imagine along with Mayor Knowles (ph), as well. But I think people here - and - but there are many people here who just want this police department to go. They think that the rift is too big and that you can't mend the wounds or mend the rift with the police department. That it's just too difficult to do at this point.

I was optimistic that that could happen after last night. I don't know. I'm still optimistic. But considering what Police Chief Jon Belmar said, the St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said, listen, these - both these men could have died from what happened last night.

BALDWIN: Yes.

LEMON: One in the head, one in the shoulder, one was lodged in his head, the other one it came out the other side of his shoulder. I mean this is - this is serious, serious business.

BALDWIN: It's incredibly serious business. It's horrendous. These were attempted assassinations. And I think the perspective you gave us was perfect just to see about a football -- a little over a football field away is where apparently the shooter or shooters were positioned last night.

LEMON: Right. BALDWIN: You know, also, though, I know you've been in touch with, and we have too, different demonstrators. And, obviously, there's been such a message that's - and a narrative that's been put out there, but the question is who did this, right? I mean, these could be out of towners, these could be -

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Obvious they're not part of this peaceful protest movement. They need to find them.

LEMON: But, Brooke - yes, listen, we don't know. But, quite honestly, it's hard to separate the two because everyone is focused. The entire world is focused on this little section of land right here in Ferguson, Missouri. And what has happened here is that there have been protests after protests. A teenager died here. A police officer was, you know, they thought would be indicted here. That didn't happen. He was exonerated by two different investigations, two different reports. And so it's - you - it's hard to separate the two that, even if they were not connected to the protesters, people are still going to connect it to the events that happened here, therefore it's going to be connected to the protesters. So when people say, hey, this had nothing to do with the protest, that's kind of hard to distinguish considering, you know, the fog of what's going on here.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon, I appreciate you very much in Ferguson. We'll come back to you. We've got a lot to talk about over the course of the next two hours. Thank you very, very much.

Coming up next, we'll speak live with someone who says the entire city of Ferguson should be abolished.

Plus, one of the Secret Service agents in the president's personal detail apparently crashed into the White House barricade, possibly after a night of drinking. And there is word he and another agent got special treatment. The brand-new scandal rocking that agency, ahead. You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And let's be clear, the nation's eyes aren't just on Ferguson today, they will be on Ferguson for weeks and months to come. Will Ferguson's police department continue to exist? According to one columnist, not only should the police department be eliminated, but the entire town should be abolished. He was responding to the details in that Department of Justice report that found Ferguson police and courts, how they were over ticketing and over charging African-Americans to raise revenue. In part of this column, let me just quote part of this for you, he writes, "Ferguson officials were charging their people as much money as possible just to preserve and maintain a government that charges the people as much as possible."

So joining me now, the man who wrote those words, Jarvis DeBerry, editorial writer and columnist for "The Times-Picayune" and nola.com. Also with me, Malik Aziz, the national chair and executive director of the National Black Police Association.

So, gentlemen, great to have you on.

MALIK AZIZ, NATIONAL CHAIR, NATIONAL BLACK POLICE ASSN.: Thank you.

JARVIS DEBERRY, EDITORIAL WRITER & COLUMNIST, "THE TIMES- PICAYUNE"/NOLA.COM: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Jarvis, let's kick this first to you. I mean not only are you going as far as saying, you know, eliminate the police department, you say eliminate the town. How does that improve the situation?

DEBERRY: Well, I would say, first and foremost, that the problem is bigger than Ferguson. I think we all know that. I went to college in St. Louis County. And I was shocked at just the huge number of municipalities that are there. There are 89 municipalities in St. Louis County. You compare that with Jefferson parish, which is right next to New Orleans, for example, and Jefferson parish is much bigger and only has six municipalities. And if you wonder why -

BALDWIN: Why does the number of municipalities matter to you?

DEBERRY: Well, I mean, you just think about the duplication of services. Think about 89 different police forces, 89 different town clerks, 89 different mayors, et cetera, et cetera. You know, I would imagine that the people in St. Louis County could be saving a whole lot of money by compiling and collaborating with one another.

But if you have a city like Ferguson that is boasting, oh, we reached $2 million in tickets last year or we're having to ticket people just to keep more money into the coffers, that suggests that the city is existing just for its own sake and not for the sake of the people that they're supposed to be serving.

BALDWIN: It's interesting you bring up the money. And, Malik, I wanted to ask you a little bit about how some of these folks who have resigned and still getting severance. But first to you. Why do you think the Ferguson police force should stay put?

AZIZ: For me it's not about the Ferguson police force being dismantled, it's about us righting the wrongs or the ills that have occurred over decades in the police force. I wouldn't make a sweeping indictment over any police force or citizenry on issues that have taken place in the past. I think our job is to bridge build and to fill the gap and to build a better police department and better community relations with the people who we serve. And if we did that, there are many locales across the nation that would suffer the same fate. So I understand what happened and the attitudes that are surround that, but, realistically, we still are going to have to work together to form a better police and better force in the community.

BALDWIN: So how do you do that?

DEBERRY: The question - the question as I see it is -

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Jarvis. DEBERRY: Can you have a better police department when the city's whole idea seems to be charge the people, charge the people, put the people in jail if they're not paying us, let's see how much money we can extract from the people. And so can you have a decent police department if they're being pressured at every turn to pick up people, take them to jail, turn them upside down and shake out their pockets for costs.

BALDWIN: To his - to his point, how do you bridge build given those facts, Malik?

AZIZ: Yes, I heard - I heard what he said and I think I agree with his understanding of it. That's a very challenging of many obstacles, you know, that are put in front of us in order to bridge that gap. And Ferguson lost that not just doing the Mike Brown shooting, they lost that for years and for decades of failure to build that. I can say that utilizing a police force is almost criminal to carry out such a behavior. And I think that's what Mr. DeBerry is speaking of. And it is criminal to use the police to form a police state to collect revenue to build a government on the backs of the people.

BALDWIN: And - and let me just take this a step further, fellas, and just think about the fact that you have these three officials who resigned, you know, city manager, judge and now this police chief, all of whom will be collecting severance, you know, translations, these taxpayers who were discriminated against, some of whom were discriminated against as per this DOJ report. They're now paying the salary of these folks who have left. Are you following me? Is that fair, Malik?

AZIZ: Yes, I don't - in some cases, and I won't say all of - in certain - in all of the circumstances surrounding the severance pay is totally fair. In some circumstances, it is. I think the problem is, Ferguson has a major issue with trust and I don't know how we reward people based on what we've heard in the last six or seven months and give them pay for basically poor performance. And that is the issue at hand. I don't think they should be garnishing those types of severance in all cases. I just don't believe it. I don't think the citizens believe it, but the citizens of Ferguson must stand up and demand better government or these type of things wouldn't happen. When you're 67 percent African-American and you're not protesting and demanding that change that we need to see, then that's their community and they have tolerated it and it's not tolerable.

BALDWIN: Jarvis, to the point -

DEBERRY: I had a - I had a friend in college who was put in jail for unpaid parking tickets somewhere in St. Louis County. I talked to him yesterday. He wasn't exactly sure which municipality it was. And I believe back then that, oh, this must be some type of egregious case because who gets put in jail for parking tickets? Well, apparently a whole lot of people in Ferguson and a whole lot of people in St. Louis County get put in jail for parking tickets. And what's even worse, when they get out of jail, they still owe the same amount of money that they owed before they went in jail. And it's my friend on the other side saying, yes, I believe that's criminal. And if the city is doing this to its people, I don't believe that city has a right to exist.

AZIZ: Yes, and I agree with you. Let me say this, Brooke, because I believe -

BALDWIN: Sure, just quickly.

AZIZ: What he's saying, putting - utilizing the police force to actually carry out those measures is certainly needs to be looked at because you can't use a police force to collect fines on the back of its citizens and they still have outstanding fines. Unheard of.

BALDWIN: It's criminal and trying to shoot officers criminal as well. Malik Aziz and Jarvis DeBerry, thank you both.

AZIZ: Thank you.

DEBERRY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, how about these two Secret Service members, big, big trouble after their car they were in crashed into the gates around the White House. One of the agents on President Obama's personal detail. Did they get special treatment after a night of partying? We'll talk about that after a quick break.

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