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Manhunt Under Way in Ferguson, Missouri, for Shooter of Police Officers; Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei Dismissed Letter from 47 Republican Senators

Aired March 12, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: A manhunt under way in Ferguson, Missouri, for the person or persons who shot two police officers last night. We're live with Don Lemon next. He was there for many of these protests in the past couple of months and just spoke with a young person who lived there, that's perspective coming up.

Also ahead, crime scene investigation. How investigators looking at those shell casings talking to eyewitnesses, trying to track down the gunman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Half bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And let's just get you right to Ferguson, Missouri with my colleague Don Lemon is there for us and he's hearing from community members who are incredibly upset, obviously, about these attacks, the shooting of these two different police officers.

Don Lemon, tell me what you're hearing.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT: Yes, you tasked me with talking to community -members last time we spoke, Brooke. I just got on the ground and didn't get to speak to a lot of people personally except for via texts. But I have been talking to some of the protesters who were here and some of the residents, as well.

The protesters obviously upset. They don't agree with what happened last night, but they are so upset, they still think that young unarmed people are being targeted and they want that to stop. But the residents, it's a different story. The people who mainly live here. I'm wondering if there's a disconnect between the protesters and people who live there.

(INAUDIBLE) lives here . She lives here with her aunt. Her aunt has lived here forever. You lived here for a couple of years. She's 21 years old. You said you were just trying to -- you live here. You didn't hear the commotion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I didn't hear any of the commotion last night. Actually my cousin saw it like on facebook or something and ran in the house, they're acting up down the street. We're like, what. So I probably the most I heard was a siren. LEMON: You said you were just trying to go walk here --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walks to the library, yes.

LEMON: What do you think of the events that happened last night?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is crazy. Like we just want to walk at library, you know? We just want out neighborhood again. We want to be to walk to the store without seeing cameras, you know. Like that's not what we want. We just want a regular everyday life.

LEMON: You said you are almost confused.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Almost confused with --

LEMON: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why everyone is -- not so much -- I still understand why we're upset but, you know, like I said it takes time. People -- they're firing people, you know. They're resigning, people, maybe not exactly who you want that to be. You know what I am saying? But we see change, you know what I'm saying so, you know, just be patient. We have to be patient. We have to.

LEMON: So you don't think anything will happen if people continue to be angry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We continue to be angry, it's giving us a wrong meant. It's taking attention away from the positive and putting it on the negative like searching for bullet casings when we could be finding out, you know, like putting stuff together on who may be the next mayor or picking up a book. You know what I'm saying. Reading to your little cousin is change. That's change.

LEMON: You don't think that people should be protesting? Surely --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still can protest. Of course, I still see and understand, you know, black lives do matter and we still have to get a message across and there still is a message that needs to be heard but that's not the right way to do it.

LEMON: Again, let's talk about the disconnect because the residents I talk to say I just want my neighborhood to go back to normal. And the protesters say, look, I'm sick of it. Is there a disconnect?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a disconnect because the people that live right down the street aren't out here stopping traffic. You know what I'm saying, holding up signs. We may be out here holding up signs but we're peacefully to the side of the sidewalk. You know what I'm saying? So the negativity has to stop. It has to. That's the disconnect. That's the disconnect.

LEMON: What do you say to the officers, the families of the officers and the officers who were shot? It's awful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We appreciate them serving. We appreciate the protections. We appreciate them putting their lives on the line every day. We do. And our heart goes out to them. It does.

LEMON: You said since this has happened this changed you. How so?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just making me want to be a role model for my cousins and nephews and even my brothers and sisters.

LEMON: You joined the army. You're 21 years old. This made you join the army.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not exactly. Not exactly. But it sparked an immediate change in me. You know, it made me want to get up, you know, motivated me, yes.

LEMON: Thank you for being so candid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

LEMON: Thank you. That's Jamila Buckley.

A lot of people will talk to me in person and won't come on camera. She's brave enough to come on camera. People are still upset and think people should have the right to profession but most of the people who live here, they just want their neighborhood back, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We need more Jamilas. Thank her for me, as well. And just to know all of this has made her want to become a role model and wants her neighborhood back.

Thank you so much, Don and to Jamila, as well.

So that is one part of what is happening in Ferguson. The other part is the search for the gunman. David Katz is CEO of global security group and former special agent from the drug enforcement agency.

David, welcome back.

DAVID KATZ, CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Thank you.

BALDWIN: And my first question to you being - OK, so in order to find the shooter, or shooters of these two police officer, we know they're looking at shell casings from the crime scene. We know they're talking to eyewitnesses. But beyond that what else do they do?

KATZ: Well, the forensics are most important right now if you want to find out exactly what part are we were discussing off air. First, it was a rifle and now is a handgun. So you want to make sure, you get the facts straight, what type of weapon was used. And then, of course, eyewitness accounts that apparently they know where the rounds were fired from so do full forensics on that location, eyewitness identification of anyone near the area. Maybe have a vehicle, maybe a plate. As they report now they're questioning three people of interest, so maybe they've identified these folks.

BALDWIN: Let me get to the three people in just a second. But back to the handgun issue. I mean, that just what we have been hearing, handgun, and specifically from the spokesperson who was talking earlier that it was ricocheted. That these bullets ricocheted about a football field and a quarter down to where these officers were at the police department. And now we're hearing one of the officers it hit below his eye and perhaps it was just a piece of the bullet fragment it's now lodged in his ear area. But a handgun, 100 percent capable that have.

KATZ: Absolutely. Handgun is not what you would choose to take a shot at 125 yards or relatively easy shot a football field length away with a rifle is a very, very difficult shot. I mean, that's almost impossible shot especially for a nonprofessional shooter.

At that range it's much more likely that the shooter would miss, it would strike the outside of the building, the -- depends, could be various type of bullets. But generally it's lead surrounded by a core of copper, let's say, it will hit the wall. It will splatter. Pieces of metal will fly everywhere and that is apparently what happened of the officer. One pierced his cheek and has lodged under his ear, I think.

BALDWIN: That's right.

KATZ: And an amazingly these officers despite these injuries they're out of the hospital which is wonderful news for them and their families.

Final question as far as this tactical operation and this home search we know as a result that have three people are now being questioned. What would be the line of questioning and also talk a little bit more about the paraffin test in which they can tell if these individuals (INAUDIBLE).

KATZ: It's very, very old technology. You can determine whether it's someone fired a weapon in the short period of time. The residue will be on the hands and there will also be forensics for persons nearby. You can get residue on their clothing, for example. So it is a usual questioning is, you know, where were you at this, you know, try to establish where they were, you might try to get false exculpatory. In other words, you try to ask them a few questions. And they'll say, well, I was home watching TV and we have them on a surveillance camera around the corner then you know they're lying based on their statements. And that goes further to suggest guilt.

So it's generally going to be very, very basic line of questioning. But then if they have the right people, they're going to test them, they are going to find they have residue. Maybe they're somehow linked. Maybe they've registered a handgun. Maybe they even have similar ammunition in their residences. There is a lot of ways you can tie them to that shooting?

BALDWIN: OK. Hopefully they find the shooter or shooters very quickly.

David Katz, thank you very much for your expertise, as always.

Coming up next a new voice is slamming those Republican senators who all sent that letter to Iran and its supreme leader. He called it part of America's, quote "ploys and tricks," how it affects the Republican stance, coming up next.

Also, ahead, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you know the gospels, perhaps, but what about the gospel of Judas, the one that didn't make it into the bible, it tells quite a different tale about the man who is thought to have betrayed Jesus. We preview one of our CNN documentaries coming up.

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BALDWIN: The 47 Republican senators who wrote to Iran about its nuclear program got slammed by Democrats and now they're getting blasted by the men they were writing to. Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Khomeini, speaking today, dismissed the letter as quote- unquote "part of their ploys and tricks and the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program." And that wasn't all. He also said this about the negotiators. Quote "of course, I'm concerned because the other side is into deception, trickery and backstabbing."

So with me on set, what a treat, our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Hi. Beginning with first when you read the words from the Ayatollah, deception, trickery and backstabbing. Isn't that Washington? Did he get us a little bit right?

BASH: He has that part right. I think the part that shows maybe he's watching too much "House of Cards" is suggesting that this was some kind of deal that Republicans made with the Obama White House to try to derail these Iran negotiations, if only the Obama White House and the Republicans had that kind of relationship where they could come up with that kind of deal.

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: Not so much. I mean, not at all. I mean, this was truly a partisan thing, Republicans, 47 of them, writing this letter, which they realized -- most of them, many of them are not backing away from the content of it, but they are surprised by how much of an explosion this has caused.

BALDWIN: But what is this? I don't know if buyer's remorse is the right way to put it or signer's remorse that Senator John McCain is saying we were trying to get out of D.C. to avoid snowstorm and so we signed it, maybe a little too quickly.

BASH: Yes. I mean, he explained how this went down which is just that. He was talking about the fact that on I believe it was the end of last week, they were all looking through this letter that Tom Cotton, whop we say a freshman senator from Arkansas. He was at the House. He certainly has military experience so he has a sense of the world stage. But now, all of these veteran Republican senators like John McCain, like the Republican Senate leader, the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, they all signed it. They do say that -- insist they don't regret doing it when it comes to the content. What McCain's aides are telling me is that what he was suggesting was

that he regrets the process, so you can square that circle, you know. But in any event, there's no question does this make things more partisan and I think that is important thing to underscore, Brooke, the idea of congressional -- a congressional stamp on these talks was really bipartisan because Republicans were very close to getting a veto-proof majority with Democrats on board to pass legislation to tell the president, you've got to come to Congress before this is done. We've got to either give it an approval or not. And now Democrats, many of them are backing away because they say, wait a minute, this is so partisan, it's backfiring.

BALDWIN: Dana, thanks very much.

BASH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

Next, Ferguson, Missouri, Ferguson, Missouri, a lot of nerves frayed and because of the violence last night, two police officers, they are out of the hospital after being shot last evening, looking for a gunman, possibly gunmen, this manhunt under way. We'll take you back to Ferguson, Missouri, next.

You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: This Sunday here on CNN, our new series entitled "finding Jesus" explores the mystery behind another man, Judas. Judas represents one of the most famous acts of betrayal in history and perhaps one of the most misunderstood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jesus wanted to be sacrificed. He asked Judas to betray him and Judas says why me. Jesus said because you are the closest to me. I beg you to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He understands what's happening. He's helping Jesus. He knows that because of what he has to do, he's going to be hated forever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judas is doing what Jesus wants him to do. Look, God sent Jesus to die for the sins of mankind. Someone has to betray him. Someone has to fulfill this mission. Jesus is saying I have to die on the cross in order to do what I was sent here to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Pastor William Shields is senior pastor at Hopewell missionary Baptist church there in Atlanta, Georgia. Good to see you, sir, and welcome.

PASTOR WILLIAM SHIELDS, SENIOR PASTOR, HOPEWELL MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: Thank you, Brooke. Thank you for having us. BALDWIN: So Pastor, let's just begin here with Judas. I mean, why

Judas betrays Jesus is one of the biggest unanswered questions in the bible. Might this lost gospel solve the mystery?

SHIELDS: There is no mystery. Yes, he was a son of addiction. In the book of genesis, chapter 3, when God said that the - let the seed of the woman shall bruise the head of the serpent. And the serpent to hear the seed of the woman that was. Then Satan and Jesus both bruised but not destroyed. Jesus died on the cross and rose again and he is still with us. In the spirit and person of the holy spirit. But Judas being the betrayer is true. Even in this manuscript that has been called the gospel of Judas, I can't call it that. It's a manuscript. Even he, the writer, said yes, I betrayed Jesus. Yes, he did have to betray Jesus. He was doomed to do so.

And Jesus uses -- the father uses whom he chooses and what he chooses. He chose a rooster to crow three times there at the rest of Jesus. He chose then an arrowhead to float. He chose then this Judas to be the betrayer because yes, Jesus had to go to the cross to die for our sins and he rose for our justification.

So yes, there is a Judas and yes, he's a betrayer. But then this manuscript that said he was closest to Jesus, that I rebuke because the four gospels -- in all of the four gospels there's a list of disciples. Peter, James and John are listed always the first three, and then there is some shuffling of the other names up or down, but Judas is always listed last. And the only time there is some dialogue with Jesus is when -- real dialogue is when Mary anointed the feet of Jesus and dried them with this expensive perfume with her hair. And then Judas said why did you waste that? I could have sold that for 100 pence and given it to the poor. And the bible said he had no intent to give it to the poor because Judas didn't care about the poor. And Jesus rebuked him by saying she's doing this for my burial. That's the dialogue he had with him. And then at the end, more dialogue. Go quickly and betray me.

BALDWIN: So as listed last, and you don't want to call it this last gospel of Jesus, beyond what you just went through, what else are historians learning about this, Pastor?

SHIELDS: About this -- about the manuscript? Is that you are asking?

BALDWIN: Yes.

SHIELDS: Yes. They are learning that there was really a Judas and he did betray Christ. And he did. You know, there's a Yiddish proverb that says at best. It says better and honest slap in the face than an insincere kiss. What a way to identify this Judas, this Judas of history, this Judas of the bible.

So then the manuscript doesn't change anything for Christians. It reinforces the fact that there was one son of addiction who was born for the purpose of betraying our Christ, that he would die on the cross for our sins and be raised for our justification. It enforces and reinforces -- I produced a movie titled "Sunday morning rapture" to depict the second coming of Christ but it starts off beginning and middle about the fact that you must accept this risen Christ so that when he comes back again, then we will be caught up to be with him.

BALDWIN: All these stories, this lost manuscript. I know these archeological findings all part of this documentary. Bishop William Shields, thank you so much.

And again, it's called "Finding Jesus." It airs Sunday, 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.

Quickly before I let you go, on this Thursday, let's take a quick look at the markets. The Dow Jones is up. Here we go. Look at all that green. It is about just about 260 points here it just shy of the closing after being down really much of the week. Stocks rallied. Feds said they based half the stress. The banks inflated the market with cash. And there you go. Again, Dow in the green, 260 points.

That does if for me. I'm Brook Baldwin back here in New York.