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Statement From SAE Fraternity; OU Chapter of SAE Fraternity May Bring Legal Action Against University and OU President; President Obama Returns To Ground Zero Of V.A. Scandal; Preview of "Charles and Camilla"

Aired March 13, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

STEPHEN JONES, ATTORNEY FOR SAE FRATERNITY: We believe that, working together in a positive manner, we can find a solution that is acceptable to everyone to make this a teachable moment and an educational moment for what is seriously a flawed incident. And we will seek to accomplish that.

It was President Boren himself, who said in a recent case that the University of Oklahoma believes every student deserves a second chance. We certainly think that's true for the members of the SAE house and perhaps even for the members that are involved in this unfortunate confrontation with the university and the basic values of SAE.

Having said that however, the SAE house at the University of Oklahoma and in fact the entire Greek System that exist at OU has time and time again over multiple decades almost from the first to end -- of the end of the first decade at the University of Oklahoma been a part of OU community and contributed to the development of the university and the development of members, both men and women in the Greek System.

So, with that history and with that background we invite the university to work with us and try to find a solution. And I'll ask my assistant who drove me down here very safely and the rain to distribute copies of the statement. And I will now try to answer your questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- would you represent the two has been of that -- were expelled. And, you know, that those two students are appealing their scholarships?

JONES: First, I do not represent those two young men. Secondly, I'm sure that expulsion is the quite the accurate word to use. My understanding and I subject to revision, is that these two young men withdrew from the university. And they withdrew on Monday morning before President Boren's press conference, I believe which was on Tuesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jones, if you are fearing for your life or somebody is concerned about death threats, with all due respect for all of the attorneys, that is not necessarily the first person that would call or you're worried about your personal safety. So, I guess my question is why are you here? JONES: I'm here because I represent the board of directors of the local corporation that is the SAE chapter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you're a lawyer who's saying you have no interest in suing, is that correct?

JONES: No, I didn't say I had no interest in suing. What I said was we are not looking for a legal solution. That's not our first choice. We are looking to resolve this matter in the ways in which I have described.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- is this (inaudible) or what?

JONES: It depends on what the university and the other organizations that I mentioned, what they may have in mind. And I'm sure that SAE will contribute in a positive direction toward that solution if the opportunities present.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned about how President Boren painted the entire fraternity with a broad racist brush. He mentioned of defamation against Boren and is that anything that you're going to pursuing as well do you, are you thinking maybe an apology from Boren or --

JONES: I'm not seeking an apology from President Boren. What I'm interested in is looking to the future not the past.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ruling out the lawsuit?

JONES: I'm not ruling out a lawsuit. What I'm saying that our preference is to proceed in a non-legal solution, a non-adversarial solution and a non-litigation solution. If that's not possible, although we act in a good faith and present this, then obviously we will have to consider other possibilities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the local chapter plan to appeal it's the revoking of its charter by the national organization?

JONES: I'm not authorized yet to speak to that. We have been in contact or I have been in contact with the national association. And I'm sure members of the board of directors have been. But I don't think any decision has been reached on that matter yet. If he is on the review and just to be clear there are a number of issues here that we have to review. I'm new to the case, so I haven't been on the case 24 hours.

And there's a lot of paper work that I have to review. But let me just tell you basically those issues. They ranged from real state to student safety. There's issues about who owns the house and who owns the property and what we will done with the house and what will be done with the property.

And that's a contractual issue involving real state law. And people are looking at that. Then there is the status of the suspended members and they arrived before the national organization. The national organization has a due process system in which you judge each of these members individually we have to determine their status in the SAE particularly when they graduate.

Then there's also the issue to be certain that the students who, disciplinary actions are saw against are guaranteed and they have their due process and other constitutional rights. And then I also mentioned the safety of the students which is our primary concern at this point. Yes, Ma'am, yes Ms. Alison (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk about, you mentioned about unfortunately we're saying can you be more specific?

JONES: No. No, I accept, I think the appropriate authorities had been alerted about that. But we deal as a potentially volatile situation. And that's why I think we need to avoid or rush the judgment. We need to lower our voices and we need to take a breath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the board of trustees, when look down with that, even there's a -- there's some real state issues about who owns it. Do they win it, kept up or --

JONES: I don't think they've come to any final decision, they are waiting on the legal advice from the real state lawyer and well I practice law of 50 years. I've never thought of myself as a real state lawyer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the house is owned by OU or is it own by the board of constitution.

JONES: It's my understanding that's a property that is the real property of the house it is owned by SAE. But the university has some claim to the house. But the exact description of that claim or right, I'm not prepared to speak today because I'm still reviewing with others those documents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think there's a problem that the university have a right to throw those people out of that place.

JONES: That's also being reviewed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the university has sent the two students were expelled. And if that's the case is -- has been (tell) us in your view is that violating free speech?

JONES: Well I've tried to avoid being more catholic than the folks, are more royal than the queen. How the two young men with their parents and their legal council decide that proceed is for them. But I would think an immediate expulsion would run contrary to due process. Now if they withdrew then it might be considered they did voluntarily if they withdrew under a thread of expulsion that raises another issue.

Expulsion and a hearing afterwards is permitted were a genuine emergency exist such as the threat of violence already increasing violence. We don't have that here. But at the present time I'm not prepared to characterize those actions because I think that really needs to be determined by the two young men and their parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you spoken with attorneys at OU, since you've been retained?

JONES: I have spoken with them. Mike Burrage, a distinguished former judge. And the federal court in the eastern district who advices me that, in the event of litigation, he would represent the University of Oklahoma.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that a --

(END PRESSER COVERAGE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right so, you've been listening to Stephen Jones, he really sort of made a name for himself defending Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. And so he heard in there is anybody on this case here out of the University of Oklahoma, not even 24 hours.

But Danny Cevallos and Nick Valencia, let me just bring the two of you in. What we just heard really it seems to me the headline was sort of thought that perhaps Danny that we would be hearing some sort of litigious action against, you know, perhaps university president based upon this SAE fraternity you're getting, you know, kicked off campus. And it gets wonky if I may, getting into real estate law et cetera, et cetera. And Nick you can help fill in the blanks.

But basically what he's saying is I'm not ruling out a legal solution. But because of X, Y and Z we don't like to come together and find solutions and what not have the fraternity kicked off campus.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: As with many claims lawyers often try to resolve in short of judicial intervention. And I think that's what he meant, although the language was a little stilted. What he meant was he's looking to resolve all of these issues without going to court. If it all possible, that's what it appeared to be from the press conference.

And more than that, he's not so much talking about the expulsion of the two students or whether they withdrew.

BALDWIN: He doesn't represent them.

CEVALLOS: He doesn't represent them. There are constitutional issues there that he didn't address. And I think he got those that analysis spot on to the extent he chose to address it. But he may have point in that a student may have a property right not only in his or her education but also in his residents hall or his dormitory where he lives.

And if you look at this case these student's were essentially, summarily kicked out of the fraternity house. If the fraternity house is part of the university campus for constitutional purposes, the question arises, were they deprive of that property right that right to their eduction and the dorm, when they were thrown out without due process. And due process in this context does many meanings means a hearing or some sort of process or procedure by which you get the opportunity to be heard.

BALDWIN: Point being this happened too, too quickly and to your point. Nick Valencia, let me just ask you as far as the fact goes, this is SAE fraternity, was this considered on campus housing? Was this on university property?

VALENCIA: Well, it was within the campus area, just a few blocks away from where the university, the center of the university is, that north oval area where our live shot location is. But it's on sort of the territory of the campus. It's unclear. I'm really unclear on that. I shouldn't speak at a turn here. I'm not quite sure to be honest, Brooke.

Just listening to that press conference right now, it really essentially comes down to getting a second chance, right? I mean, this is an attorney who's speaking to the media saying that these kids deserve a second chance, that a group of a few students or a group of a few fraternity members of the former chapter shouldn't speak for everyone, saying that it's one incident, a nine-second clip happened on one bus, there was five buses there.

And interestingly enough, throughout that press conference, I was texting with the one of the co-founders of Unheard, that's that organization that was responsible for this clip going viral. And this is the comment that we got from Chelsea Davis. She's one of the co- founders here. I want to read this, saying, "We support our president and his decision," she says. "And we look forward to working with our President and Senior Administration faculty and staff to make OU a more diverse and inclusive university."

And sort of speaks to kind of what the attorney was saying, and saying that he wants to work with these groups. He wants to work with the ACLU in Oklahoma or perhaps the local --

BALDWIN: NACCP.

VALENCIA: And under -- and the NAACP local chapter. So, he's saying let's make this a teachable moment. Yeah.

BALDWIN: And not do anything legally, though he was clear in saying it's not ruling out a lawsuit --

VALENCIA: Right.

BALDWIN: -- potentially down the road. Nick Valencia, thank you. Danny Cevallos. Thank you both very, very much there out of University of Oklahoma.

We'll watch that. Coming up next, President Obama host a roundtable at the V.A that was really the center of that massive patient care controversy. CNN was all over this. You have veterans dying while waiting for appointments. Drew Griffin broke the story. We'll talk to Drew ahead of this presidential roundtable.

Also ahead, Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, made a huge offer to Steve Jobs just before he died. Cook said he would actually donate part of his liver. How'd Jobs responded to that offer? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The president has returned to ground zero of that V.A. scandal. A scandal that CNN -- our investigative unit broke wide opened last year. I can tell you right now, President Obama is headlining this roundtable discussion at the Phoenix V.A. The president arrived just a short time ago for meeting with V.A. Secretary Robert McDonald, as well as the patients, and with staff there in Arizona. The big question obviously has patient care improved, have wait times been reduced, are veterans are finally getting the health they need, the health they so deserve.

Drew Griffin is the man who broke that story for us. He's joining me now.

And Drew, what exactly do you anticipate that the president's message have these changes? I mean, you have reported on these egregious mistakes being made. Have the wrongs been righted?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well they're trying, Brooke. And the V.A. has distributed numbers of saying that they have improved the wait times, that they have increased their staff, that they have veterans now going to clinics outside of the V.A. system when there is a need. And they show all of these numbers that seem to show that the health care being delivered to our veterans is improving. The problem remains, can anyone believe those numbers?

The president, what he's going to announce today in addition of this roundtable is in outside advisory committee that is going to be made up of business people, of veteran services organizations, of health care professionals and others who will be able to look at this with fresh eyes, from the outside looking into what has been a very troubled and quite frankly, untrustworthy organization when it comes to determining if fact their numbers are correct.

BALDWIN: I understand, Drew, you have something new to report on the scandal that your reporting on tonight on AC360. Can you give me a little preview?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. It speaks exactly to the truth and transparency of what the veteran's administration is telling us in terms of whether or not wait times are improving. And it deals with one of the largest veteran's health care centers in the country, it's out in Los Angeles, where the V.A. would have you believe that the wait times for new patients is just four days to see an appointment? We are learning, Brooke, from inside that hospital and from documents we've found, that it's nowhere near that. Try 10 times that number, 44 days. In some cases, up to a year. Even mental health patients are being forced to wait.

We're going to have that story tonight. But again, this speaks to the overall problem in all of this --

BALDWIN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: -- is that you cannot trust what is being coming out of the V.A. administration.

BALDWIN: It keeps shining the light on the wrong, Drew Griffin, thank you so much to you and your investigations in here. We'll see you tonight at 8:00 Eastern here on CNN. I appreciate it.

When Apple founder Steve Jobs was in his final years, dying of cancer, one of his employees actually made him an offer that most would think you couldn't refuse. Apple CEO Tim Cook wanted to give part of his liver to his boss. But Steve Jobs said, "No way."

We have stories detailed in this new biography about the legendary business men entitled "Becoming Steve Jobs." And CNN business correspondent Samuel Burke is with me now.

First of all, just to even offer up your liver to your boss is one thing, why did he say no?

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's so interesting because so often when people talk about their bosses is because they have something negative to say, and this could not be further from that.

We all know that in 2004, Jobs announced that he was sick with pancreatic cancer. By 2009, Jobs couldn't even leave his office anymore, so Tim Cook was coming to visit him at home. And according to excerpts posted, and by Fast Company, he was so distraught leaving the home of Steve Jobs that he decided to go to a doctor, do a blood analysis to see if he had the same type of rare blood that his boss Steve Jobs had. They did. It matched. He could do it. He went to Steve Jobs and said, "I can give you part of my liver." And I want to read you what --

BALDWIN: Yeah.

BURKE: -- Tim Cook says that Steve Jobs said. He said, "He cut me off at the legs, almost before the words were out of my mouth. "No," he said. I'll never let you do that. I'll never let you do that." And Tim Cook says that Steve Jobs yelled at him -- and there was just a couple of times in these 13 years that he yelled at him. And this was one of -- it seems like he had wanted to hear nothing of it. He stepped down in 2011 in August. Steve Jobs in October of 2011, he died at 59 years old.

BALDWIN: Incredible. So this new book on top of the Walter Isaacson book. Samuel Burke, thank you very, very much. Incredible.

Coming up next, Prince Charles. Prince Charles gets personal, incredibly rare. Sit-down interview here with us at CNN. He's talking about his 10 years of marriage to Camilla, and the challenges she's faced in being his wife after Diana. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In a rare sit-down interview with Britain's Prince Charles, ahead of his trip to the United States next week here, and the person getting the scope of the future king, none other than our colleague here at CNN, our Royal Correspondent, Max Foster. This is a big, big deal because this comes as Charles and his wife, Camilla are getting ready to do this. We mentioned both to coming to Washington D.C. and to Kentucky. This is the first U.S. visit together in 10 years. Here's a clip of the interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: People cannot believe it's been 10 years. And in that time, the Duchess of Cornwall has defined her own public role as well, hasn't she? Is that being a challenge?

PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES: You can imagine it is a real choice. But she's I think been brilliant and then -- in the way she has tackled these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Royal Commentator Victoria Arbiter is with me. And just to -- we're talking at commercial break. But just to underscore, Prince Charles doesn't do this?

VICTORIA ARBITER, CNN'S ROYAL COMMENTATOR: No, he really doesn't. Royals in general, don't do interviews unless it's serving that interest. So, of course, he'll give an interview if it's going to promote the work of the prince's Trust, or architecture, the environment, things he's interested in.

But an interview like this is a precursor to a tour. I can't recall it ever having happened. And when you add to the fact that he's really stalling (ph) the virtues of Camilla is sort of touchy-feely Charles where you see him talking with such a fondness, that's what make it so incredibly rare.

BALDWIN: It has been -- I mean, I've lost track of the years since Princess Diana passed away with so many Americans were just -- and still are, to be honest, in love with her and her story, and so a lot of people look at Camilla as, you know, this evil wife of Prince Charles when in case -- that's not the case.

ARBITER: Simply not the case. Camilla has been so good for Charles in many ways. And I think this interview really is an opportunity for him to try and help America just move along a little bit. In the U.K. she's actually become quite popular. Not across all (inaudible) of society but her charity work has been very successful. They see that she's helped Charles chill out. She's got a great sense of humor. And I think really, his keying (ph) for America to fall in love with her. As you mentioned, we're coming up on 18 years since Diana passed.

BALDWIN: 18 years.

ARBITER: It's hard to believe but it's time to let that go to rest and let Camilla really have an opportunity to show what she's all about.

BALDWIN: So they're going to Washington D.C. and to Kentucky. What's the plan?

ARBITER: Well, really they're here to promote the U.K. partnership with the U.S.

BALDWIN: OK.

ARBITER: So it's going to be common interest whether it'd be veteran's affairs, the environment, animal welfare. Really anything that is their interest that's what happening here that the U.S. and the U.K. can work together. They'll also meet the president and the vice president at the White House.

BALDWIN: And then finally, for all the "Downton Abbey" fans out there and there are many, many of you. Kate, Duchess of Cambridge. She actually took a trip to the set of "Downton Abbey." And here, she was meeting with what, cast members?

ARBITER: She meet the cast and crew, she went into the props department, she went into wardrobe, and really I think, this is where two very popular worlds in America collided. Downton Abbey is of course a huge success here. And Julian Fellowes is the creator of Downton Abbey. He is really largely (inaudible) Kate with the popularity state side because of course she is so popular as well.

So, seeing them come together yesterday there were people saying they would like to melt the internet. That didn't quite happen but it was very popular.

BALDWIN: Did the cast and the crew, did they at least have a heads up that Kate was coming their way?

ARBITER: Yes, they did.

BALDWIN: Can you imagine being on the set and you see, you know --

ARBITER: A real Duchess, yeah.

BALDWIN: Right.

ARBITER: And such a shame because Maggie Smith of course is so popular on the show. She was ill yesterday so she wasn't there but they did do a cast photo with the Duchess sitting in between all of them and said, definitely a keeper for --

BALDWIN: So exciting. Victoria Arbiter, always a pleasure to have you on.

ARBITER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you very, very much. And just a quick reminder of course with this big interview with Prince Charles, Max Foster sit- down exclusive interview with him. It airs Saturday at 7:30 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Saturday at 7:30 p.m. here on CNN.

Thank you so much for being with me here. I'm Brooke Baldwin in New York on this Friday afternoon but I want you to keep it right here. We're going to take you to Washington D.C. now. THE LEAD with Jake Tapper starts right now.