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Pastor Wants Parishioners to Provide $300 Each for Gold Stream Jet; Elton John Calls for Boycott of Dolce & Gabanna; Hours Before the Israeli Election, Netanyahu Headlined a Rally in Tel Aviv

Aired March 16, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<15:32:51> BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: It was a Sky High Financial plea called Project G650. It came from a high profile well known televangelist Atlanta-area Megachurch pastor Creflo Dollar. He wanted 20,000 of his parishioners to each cough up 300 bucks or more. Why you ask? So the church could buy this. It's a G650 Gold Stream jet. It retails for $65 million. The congregation current jet he says was falling to into disrepair. He posted a video request online but when were gone out the social media backlash was so swift and so harsh. His post was quickly taken down.

A Dollar certainly no stranger to criticism of his opulent lifestyle, but this time, did he go too far?

Joining me CNN's Don Lemon who pushed the pastor on this very subject. We are going to play a clip of that just a second and also the Christian Post Leonardo Blair who's been following this whole story.

So Leonardo, let me just begin with you. And for people who are not familiar with, you know, prosperity gospel and why a pastor needs to fly around in a G650. We're going to get to that in a second.

LEONARDO BLAIR, THE CHRISTIAN POST CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BALDWIN: But you have news, because this is whole thing is about spreading the gospel. And I'm wondering, why can't he spread the gospel in a commercial airliner? Your answer, there's an update from the internet.

BLAIR: On the internet. Right.

So Brooke, about two hours ago, I spoke with Juda Engelmayer, he's the PR representative of Creflo Dollar's ministries. And he told me that as of now, there is absolutely no campaign, they're not trying to get a jet. But if there is one available for the right price, they will accept it. But as of now, there is absolutely no campaign to get the jet.

BALDWIN: So with the right price, then would they say, hey, parishioners, if you would like to donate, you still can?

BLAIR: Well, they did not explain to me. I asked that very question and I asked him what does the right price mean? He could not say. So as of now, if anyone wants to donate Creflo Dollar a jet, he will accept it. But he's not trying to get one.

BALDWIN: OK. OK. Let's back up.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: If anyone wants to donate a jet to me, I'll take it as well.

BALDWIN: I'm sure you will. Let's back up. Like more on Creflo Dollar, he's background, what he sort of known for. This is an exchange you had with him, how long ago?

<15:35:02> LEMON: I think it was 2007, I believe. I think 2006, 2007.

BALDWIN: 2007, pulling it out of the archive. Roll the videotape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You have been criticized before. So you're not, I'm sure, this is no surprise to you the criticism for having a couple of Rolls- Royces, having private jets, a multimillion dollar home in Fayetteville, $2.5 million apartment in Manhattan. The question is, if you're a reverend for the people and you're looking out for the people and going by God's word and what the Bible says, why do you need so much wealth? Why doesn't that money go to the people who are sitting at the bus stop every day who can't afford a car and who can't afford health care and are contributing to your ministry and to your wealth as well?

PASTOR CREFLO DOLLAR, CREFLO DOLLAR MINISTERIAL: Well, first of all, it's a miscalculated assumption that those things were purchased with the church's money. I purchased over 100 cars for people in my congregation. Homes for people in the congregation. We don't have two Rolls-Royces. We have one that the church purchased for us. In my opinion, it doesn't look bad because --

LEMON: It doesn't look bad that you have a Rolls-Royce and people who are contributing to you don't even have cars and can't pay utility bills.

DOLLAR: Well again -- I don't have a Rolls-Royce. The church owns the Rolls-Royce.

LEMON: But do you ride in the Rolls-Royce?

DOLLAR: We mainly use it to escort guests around. I've driven it --

LEMON: Do you need a Rolls-Royce to escort guests around?

DOLLAR: I really don't. In fact the guests, right now, we're selling the Rolls-Royce to put it in the children's ministry. But the assumption is, without looking at what we do and see what we already put into those different ministries, it's easy to assume that well, you know, you're putting little into those things while you have these other things.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: OK.

LEMON: But he doesn't own the Rolls-Royce, the church owns the Rolls- Royce. He's the head of the church and that money was raised, all of it from the church. He doesn't have any other business, he's out independently wealthy. This is you know, I want to be respectful to him and to be fair with him but what he says doesn't make sense. I think it's a bunch of, you know what malarkey. I think that that money could be well -- better spent in other places, especially if you're helping people. You don't need a Bentley to ride people around. You know, go get yourself a Prius or semi Yukon.

BALDWIN: How would he -- Leonardo, how would he defend himself if he were sitting here? Explain why -- and he's not the only, you know, Megachurch pastor who has this kind of money and likes to roll around.

LEMON: Can I answer -- but when you talk about that the whole -- this whole jet thing is not -- it does not make sense. Because on a G650 or whatever.

BALDWIN: Right.

LEMON: You can't really take supplies. I would imagine that delta or any other person, any other company Lockheed Martin, anyone that has a cargo jet, if he's going to do good --

BALDWIN: Hey common. (INAUDIBLE)

LEMON: They would say oh, my gosh, yes, we would love to do this. He needs a cargo jet. Not G650.

BALDWIN: What would he say? Well, what would he say?

BLAIR: Well, at this point, they're no longer trying to defend the idea. I believe they've accepted that it was a bad idea.

BALDWIN: The jet idea?

BLAIR: And they have said it's a moot point.

LEMON: But you say that he would take the jet now at this point in it was the right price. If this had not gotten so much publicity, bad publicity, people would still, he's be asking people for money and most likely they probably get a new jet.

BALDWIN: And why people are tithing or tithing 10 percent, this is on top of 10 percent of tithe, he's asking for the $300. And people at his church give this. They believe in this prosperity gospel.

BLAIR: Here's a point. And I'm not trying to defend Creflo Dollar. But what he basically says, he does not accept a salary from his church. He has not been accepting a salary for a number of years now. And he sees this $65 million request right now as a distraction. And he wants to move on. He inspires a lot of people out there. And a lot of people believe the words that he preaches from the Bible. And I believe that is where he wants to go. BALDWIN: Last word from you, Mr. Lemon.

LEMON: I'm not -- listen. I think if you -- I'm not hating on anyone. I'm not downing wealth. I think you can be wealthy, fine. But if you're going to do it on the backs of other poor people, I'm not really down with that. And to say he doesn't accept a salary, I think everybody should accept a salary. There's a difference between wealth excess and opulence. So you can be a wealthy person, you can be respectful with it and you can ask your congregation for money, but asking people for $65 million for a G650 that you can't even transport cargo in, that's a bunch of malarkey.

BALDWIN: OK, Don Lemon and Leonardo Blair. He doesn't want it anymore he says.

LEMON: We have invited him to come on, anytime.

BALDWIN: OK. I've loved to see you that interview part. (INAUDIBLE)

Thank you very much. By the way, watch Don tonight 10:00 o'clock Eastern here on CNN. The conversation this evening about the "N" word. And you have --

LEMON: "N" word. James from the whole SAE controversy, the house mom, the song she was singing, Trinidad is going to share his thought with me.

BALDWIN: Good deal. See you at ten, my friend. Thank you very much.

LEMON: Yes.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Elton John, he's calling for a boycott. A fashion designers Dolce & Gabbana after they herald their traditional family values and said children can see through In Vitro Fertilization are quote - unquote, "chemical children." We have singer and father Clay Aiken to respond to that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<15:44:15> BALDWIN: Sir Elton John is firing back on Twitter over comments by Italian designers Dolce & Gabbana. Here's the deal. They referred to quote "synthetic children born from rented wombs condemning In Vitro Fertilization and saying same sex couples should not raise children."

This whole thing begins Sunday. This called for this boycott when Elton John, who by the way has two children through IVF, issued this response to Dolce & Gabbana's statements. This is to panorama magazine. This is what Elton John said.

Quote "How dare you refer to my beautiful children as synthetic and shame on you for wagging your judgment to little finger at IVF. I shall never wear Dolce & Gabbana ever again."

Stefano Gabbana has called Elton John now a fascist and called on fans to boycott him. Joining me now singer Clay Aiken and CNN Digital Correspondent Kelly

Wallace.

So welcome to both of you. Great to meet you finally in the flesh.

<15:45:05> KELLY WALLACE, CNN DIGITAL CORRESPONDENT: Great to be with you. And get to Clay Aiken. Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Can we just back up? For anyone who just forgot your story. I can see you on the cover of people magazine. Remind us your story of becoming a father.

CLAY AIKEN, FORMER AMERICAN IDOL RUNNER-UP: Yes. I was fortunate enough to become a father with a great friend of mine through IVF to a wonderful, non-synthetic beautiful child who we're both very proud of and is turning seven this year.

BALDWIN: Awesome. Happy birthday to your precious child. And so the whole notion of synthetic babies in a rented womb, your response to that?

AIKEN: You know, I used to come home from middle school so upset when people would call my mama fat. And she'd say why in the world do you care? I'm not fat. And so, you know, there's a piece of me that just thinks some types of ignorance don't necessarily deserve to upset me. And this is one of those things, you know. I know that my child and hundreds of thousands of children of not just same sex couples but opposite sex couples too, are born through IVF and have been for the last 35 years. So 37 years now. And so I don't think it warrants getting me that mad. I think ignorance is pervasive, unfortunately. I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it.

BALDWIN: I don't think a lot of people are going to be losing sleep over this. But I do wonder, is this mind-set, this criticism of IVF or by the way, these are two gay men saying --

WALLACE: Right.

BALDWIN: -- this about gay parents, which we have to loop back to. But I've never heard this before. Is there a vein of people.

WALLACE: No.

Well, you know, I haven't heard of it before because we're talking about maybe doing a sidebar story. But in conversation with some women who have used IVF, they felt like they have heard people say, you know, not everybody agrees with it.

And I think we have to probably be honest that there are people around the world, maybe in more countries than in the United States who frown on this and what I would say is that's probably because they haven't been touched by infertility in their families or they haven't had, you know, same sex, you know, children who have gone and had a beautiful child. I think it's ignorance, but I do think that there are still people, sadly, who feel this way and it's probably something we have to acknowledge.

AIKEN: I think there's confusion between IVF and artificial insemination too, which a lot of people don't understand.

WALLACE: Yes. Right.

AIKEN: When we first had our child, a lot of people started making comments that implied they believed it was a different method. And IVF is, you know, it's a medical method that's been used, as I said, by not just gay individuals but by straight individuals who don't have the ability, or not fertile to have their own children.

WALLACE: And also, in another story I was doing recently on the rise of the 50-year-old mother. I mean, you know, you have women in their 50s we're now using IVF. One doctor I talked to said some of the criticism he think this generational. I mean, kids who are growing up in their 20s, 30s, even 40s, they've grown up with IVF. As you said, it's been around for decades. Maybe people older, right. Late 40s, 50s, 60s. They're not as familiar with it. They know the term when we heard in the 70s of the test tube babies. So some of this maybe also, you know, attitudes that are born from older generations versus how younger people feel.

BALDWIN: Maybe. But then also you're looking at Dolce & Gabbana. I'm not talking about the fashion brand, I come out with two men, these two gay men who were saying they believe that you should only have children who are come from traditional families. And I realize this is Italy and this is Catholicism and who knows what else. I'm trying to somehow get where they could be, and I can't. But the fact that they're gay and saying this about other gay people.

AIKEN: Well, I think there's -- I think it's indicative of how we have come quite a ways with LGBT rights in the United States. But there are a lot of countries who have done better than we have and so many more who have done worse.

BALDWIN: Yes.

AIKEN: There are still LGBT individuals who are being persecuted and even killed around the world.

BALDWIN: Right.

AIKEN: Italy is a country that has not progressed as far as other places in Europe. And I think that the mind-set has, you know, there are people who are now in the south who in the '90s were gay and were so apprehensive about being gay or being considered gay, that they held some of those homophobic beliefs as well. I think that something you might be seeing in a country that's not come as far as we have.

WALLACE: It is. And it is so hard to believe coming from the same sex, you know, two men who are gay, who are same sex couple at one point.

BALDWIN: Right. WALLACE: And clearly they said in their apologies which some of us

that was really a non-apology, apology that they were saying we never meant to criticize individuals' choices. But yes, that's what they did when they first spoke out. It's only with the backlash they're coming forward and saying this is our notion of reality but we don't condemn other choices that people make.

BALDWIN: And just finally, and I had guests from last hour who were hilarious and saying we can't even fit Dolce & Gabbana, we listen to his problem with his eyes. This is the sunglasses and the wallet will do but not anymore according to them. And I'm just wondering, you know, when you look the following I think of a famous face and we go Madonna, right who loves Dolce & Gabbana. But I'm sure they have quite a gay following, a very prominent members of, you know, a gay communities, who love their fashion, who are connected to the fashion world, who I'm wondering, I'm just wondering what happens to the brand.

<15:49:06> AIKEN: I think it's going to hurt a little bit. I mean, I think you've seen boycotts that have happened for other brands, Chick- Fil-a, that weren't quite as successful. Dolce & Gabbana's base of clientele is either individuals in large cities who have progressed in their views of LGBT issues or gay men and women and those who support them. So I think it's going to be a wakeup call to them and I think they probably deserve it.

WALLACE: I agree with Clay. I also think they need to come forward in a much more meaningful heartfelt way if they want to repair any damage that they might see on the brand and really do a big mea culpa maybe right here with you.

BALDWIN: Dolce & Gabbana common, save you.

Clay Aiken and Kelly Wallace, thank you both very much. I really appreciate it.

WALLACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, here on CNN, we are hours away from a major election in Israel. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu fighting now for his political survival and making bold last minute promises before voters head to the polls. We will take you live to Jerusalem next. You're watching CNN.

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<15:55:02> BALDWIN: We are now just hours away from parliamentary elections in Israel. Elections that will determine if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu keeps his job which could have huge, huge impact on Israel's relations with the United States.

Just a short while ago, Netanyahu headlined a rally there in Tel Aviv. He also told an Israeli news outlet today that as long as he is prime minister there will never been a Palestinian state.

Let's go on our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott who is live in Jerusalem. And Elise, what's the reaction to his comments?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, Brooke, the Palestinians are criticizing these comments some on (ph), but everyone here know that I think what Benjamin Netanyahu doing is trying to pander to those right wing voters. Essentially it's things that he is been saying for the past few months, given the fact that peace talks with the Palestinians have soured and the Palestinians are making unilateral moves, but days before the election, really trying to reach out to every right wing voter. These are controversial positions but to the right wing base. He feels that he can energize them by letting them know he hears their concerns. Brooke.

BALDWIN: There is a potential wild card in this election, the role of Arab political parties which have unified now for the first time. Here's your piece about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT (voice-over): He is a powerful new face in Israeli politics. In a sea of Jewish parties, campaigning at Hebrew University, Ayman Odeh is a star attraction. But he is not Jewish.

He is an Israeli citizen of Palestinian descent, one of 1.6 million living in Israel. In come Election Day, the block he leads, dubbed the joint list, could hold the balance of power in the Knesset, a potential game changer for one-fifth of the country who for decades has complained of being second class citizens.

"No one can ever ignore us again," he told us. "We want to close the social and economic gaps between Arabs and Jews in this country." Walking through the Wadi Nisnas neighborhood of Haifa, he's welcomed as a local.

"I walk this street every day," he says. "I belong to each shop, each person. Growing up here," he says he identified with Malcolm X. Now the 41-year-old lawyer relates to Martin Luther King. Having convinced Israel's tiny splintered Arab parties to team up for the first time, he now wants Arabs to get out and vote, to unseat Benjamin Netanyahu who he says fuels racism and incitement against them in their own country.

"What makes people vote is the hope of change," he says. "We are 20 percent of the population. Together we can prevent him from forming a government."

There is some skepticism but many here in Wadi Nisnas believe their native son can lead them to a better place. "Many people didn't want to vote before," this man told us. "We asked for our rights but we never get anything. This is a good step and united, we can be strong."

While Odeh spoke his focus is on improving life for Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories he says he needs Israeli Jews to help.

"Arabs alone cannot make a democracy strong," he says. "It must be Arabs and Jews together. A message that resonates back at Hebrew University, where some Jewish students are joining the fight against what they call institutional discrimination."

OFER, STUDENT IN JEWISH COMMUNIST HADASH PARTY: It's not only a struggle of the Palestinian minority within Israel. It's a struggle of the Palestinian minority together with Democratic Jews like myself.

LABOTT: It's not a vision shared by most in Israel, but Odeh's message is now is their chance. By finding a voice and using their vote, they can make that vision a reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So Elise as I know, it's impossible to predict here, but hours before this election, how is Netanyahu looking versus others who want his position?

LABOTT: Well, Brooke, over the last few days, we know he's been down about four seats pretty consistently. He's been bleeding a lot of votes. Isaac Herzog has remains pretty consistent. So the votes that he, Netanyahu is losing are going all over the place. But in the last 48 hours, Netanyahu as we said has been really reaching out, trying to energize that right wing constituency and it seems to have been working. Israeli channels here tonight are reporting that he's closing the gap. Some of his right wing supporters have been out today canvassing the area, really trying to get out every vote.

And all the analysts we talked to say no matter how it looks right now, we have absolutely no idea what's going to come on election night. And even when the results come out and we see how many seats each person gets in the Knesset, it really does not mean that person is going to be the prime minister. So Netanyahu may be down at the end of election night, he still could be the prime minister. We just don't know right now -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Elise Labott, we will following a very, very closely there in Israel. Thank you so much.

And thank you for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin, here at CNN New York. Let's go to Washington.

<16:00:10> "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.