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Dr. Drew
Millionaire Robert Durst "Admits" to Murder?; Whitney Houston`s Daughter`s Coma, Aired 9:00-10:00pET
Aired March 16, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight the millionaire heir Robert Durst cut up a body and threw it away.
<21:00:00> Now just maybe he was caught confessing to murder and the latest on Bobbi Kristina Brown. She has been in a coma for 45 days.
Let`s get started with WTF, the most shocking story of the night dominating social media. It`s breaking news regarding Robert Durst, a millionaire
real estate heir. He was just charged with first degree murder hours ago. That makes it possible now that this could be a death penalty case.
He dropped a bomb on an HBO documentary Sunday night, "The Jinx." He was caught on an open mic. He finished the interview, walked away. He was
caught on open mic saying "killed them all, of course." An admission of guilt? We will see. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Bob Durst has been accused of many crimes over many years.
ROBERT DURST: I had nothing to do with Susan Berman`s death.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: "The Jinx" chronicles Durst`s connections to three different murders, his wife, Kathy in 1982, his close friend, Susan Berman
in 2000 and a neighbor, Morris Black in 2001.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: What did I do?
I killed them all. Of course.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Durst whispering to himself in a bathroom after his final interview for the special.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: The alleged motive for her murder that she knew too much about the mysterious disappearance of Durst`s wife.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: I found him very engaging. I would say charming. He is very funny.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Bob Durst didn`t kill Susan Berman. He is ready to end all the rumor and speculation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Police arrested Durst over the weekend. Joining us to discuss, Vanessa Barnett, hithollywood.com, Sam Shacher, "Pop Trigger" and Hulu and
Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at Pepperdine University.
Let me review the time line. 1982, Durst`s first wife disappears. In 2000, his friend, Susan Berman who was apparently being sought for
information about the first death that had been reopened, she was shot with a shot - gun shot to the head, execution style. In 2001 he was arrested
for murdering and dismembering his neighbor. Then he was acquitted claiming self-defense. Vanessa, your thoughts?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: This man is a murderer. I can`t - first of all, we`re rewinding and going back to the murder that he was
acquitted of. I don`t understand that jury. I don`t understand how that happened. I don`t know anyone who kills someone in self-defense and then
goes and chops up their body.
PINSKY: It`s weird, right?
BARNETT: Then you have the other things that line up and that - if you have seen any of the documentary, looks like it`s just a solid slam dunk
case. Then this man is still out able to kill other people.
PINSKY: Well, it looks like. Looks like it. It`s easy to say he has so much money he was able to defend himself. That`s why he got off. That`s
an easy thing. My general note is, everybody, the way things are printed, presented on television, there`s no rules governing it. You can make
somebody look guilty and distort and remove and adjust facts any way you want to.
My understanding for instance is he may have been talking to somebody after that little bit of tape we got of him muttering to himself, he may have
been talking to somebody to explain, how do you make them understand that they think I killed everybody. I don`t know. Because it`s on TV.
BARNETT: Come on.
PINSKY: But Sam, why would even agree to be interviewed for a documentary if he was so guilty.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST "POP TRIGGER": Because he`s so narcissistic and entitled, Dr. Drew that he probably thought, "I will do this documentary
even though I could say something that further implicates me. But he thinks he can get away with anything. Because guess what? It looks like
he already got away with murder as Vanessa just said. That he somehow got acquitted for shooting and dismembering his friend out of self defense?
PINSKY: Bizarre right? That`s a bizarre thing -
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: That he would kill somebody and dismember them. It`s one thing to say self-defense. But he claims he dismembered him because he was
concerned about all the guilt that was - sort of people calling him guilty to the first murder. He didn`t want to address it. Chop the guy up and
throw him in the river. Wouldn`t you, Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, but there`s also all these psychological aspects of it, too, with - he doesn`t seem like he is all there, Dr. Drew. I mean,
urinating on candy at CVS. Dressing up as an old mute woman in Texas. That`s not a normal, healthy-minded individual.
He is 71.
PINSKY: Well slow down, guys. You don`t urinate on the candy counter at (INAUDIBLE) Vanessa?
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: I don`t know what I will do at 71. At 31, no, I choose not to.
PINSKY: But Judy, here`s the thing, are there not certain conditions that cause - that evoke violent fantasies in us? I don`t know in literature
that talks about violent fantasies on masses looking at something, say on TV. But you know, on a therapeutic officer certain disassociatives and
things will trigger these violent fantasies in their caretakers. I`m wondering - I look at this guy and I sort of an autistic spectrum like
Asperger`s. I did some research, it turned out a lawyer in 2003 said he did have that - no, a psychologist said it in that case in 2003.
21:05:02
His lawyer later last year confirmed it. Could that somehow be affecting how we are all seeing this guy? Again, through the prism of a television
show.
JUDY HO, Ph.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Of course. We`re only getting a tiny slice of what this person is really about. As you pointed out, Dr.
Drew, if he has a diagnosis of Asperger`s - now, most people with Asperger`s do not have violence problems, right?
PINSKY: Right.
HO: I want to make that clear, however - right -
PINSKY: That mitigates the probability that he did something like that.
HO: That`s right because most people with Asperger`s wouldn`t even have the social wherewithal to want to do an interview like this, to want to
charm people and then kill them and then dismember them.
However, if he does have this Asperger`s diagnosis, it can actually affect the way that he processes relationships with other people and how he can
get into the mind of others. What we call empathy - it is tough for people with Asperger`s to really grasp that idea, that theory of mind that you can
actually step into someone else`s shoes.
PINSKY: And it might be easier for them to kind of walk - and Asperger`s patient - of course, they think I killed everybody. What the hell is going
on here? Sam, you want to say something?
SCHACHER: I love how you`re giving this guy a break, Dr. Drew, and remaining objective. I appreciate that.
PINSKY: But -
SCHACHER: But there`s so much circumstantial evidence. I`m sorry, that letter - that letter where for those of you who aren`t aware, there was a
letter that was sent to the police department.
PINSKY: Do we have a picture of this? The Beverly Hills was written exactly the same and wrong. They presented it to him. They said, do you
think the same person would have written this letter? He said, yes.
SCHACHER: Yes, on letter was send announcing one was announcing there was a cadaver in his friend`s home. Then he later - before that, sent a letter
to his friend - both letters, both letters one coming from the anonymous person about the cadaver and one being sent to her from him spelled the
same, looks exactly the same. I mean, what are the odds of that, Dr. Drew? Come on.
PINSKY: There`s a lot of damning stuff. I`m being somewhat playful in what I`m saying here. I am always concerned when we sit as judge and jury
based on what goes on on television, particularly something presenting a story a certain way to tell a story.
Let`s bring in Janina Driver, she`s the human lie detector. I want to play you a clip from the HBO documentary, "The Jinx" and have your reaction.
Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DURST: I had nothing to do with what caused her or what happened to her disappearance. In her disappearance. I don`t remember the first time I
slapped her or hit her.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Do you remember other times that -
DURST: Oh yes. I had nothing to do with Susan` Berman`s death.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: Do you have any thought about where she is, where her body might be?
DURST: I have no idea. Wouldn`t know how to begin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. What do you see?
JANINE DRIVER, HUMAN LIE DETECTOR: Oh, my gosh. We got a hat trick here. We got a hat trick. He is asked, do you ever think about her? He said, I
have no idea. He is not answering the direct question. He`s not even paying attention to the question that`s being asked. I think what most
people are going to notice, Dr. Drew, are those, the eye blinking. He`s doing this really odd eye blinks.
PINSKY: Hang on. That`s a medical called blepharospasm.
DRIVER: Thank you.
PINSKY: That`s blepahrospasm. Now -
DRIVER: I`m going to push it aside.
PINSKY: Right. Thank you.
DRIVER: You and I are on the same page.
PINSKY: But he does do something weird. He squints a little bit right there.
DRIVER: He does.
PINSKY: He does squinting some squinting. What was that?
DRIVER: The big problem - forget about the squinting. So that`s called eye blocking. It often happens when people are being deceptive. I don`t
want to see it. So we`ll have that extended eye blink. What`s really odd here, Dr. Drew, is when his eyes go up. This is not a normal behavior.
His whole head tilts up. His eyes go up. He does a shoulder shrug which is uncertainty. Bam, look at the shoulder shrug. Right there. This is
uncertainty, eye blocking. Then this gathering information. Have you ever done heroin? Normal people don`t go there. Your eyes might go up to get
information but the whole head tilting back - here is another big hot spot, Dr. Drew. He refers to himself not in the clip you just showed me but he
talks about himself as Bob a couple of times. He says Bob didn`t do this. Bob didn`t do that.
PINSKY: Yes, that`s autistic spectrum stuff. That`s that again. We`re projecting our own stuff on there.
DRIVER: What about Kathy Durst?
PINSKY: Go ahead.
DRIVER: So this is interesting. I`m glad you`re telling me this. You`re so smart, that`s why you have the show and I don`t, right?
So Kathy Durst, why does he talk about instead of saying my wife or my ex wife - he says I hired a lawyer to look for Kathy Durst. Often, what
happens with deceptive people, Dr. Drew, is we remove the my - my children, my house, my car because my takes ownership. And so this is called
distancing language when all of a sudden it`s Kathy Durst instead of my wife.
PINSKY: Got it.
DRIVER: It`s creating a distance. It`s just a hot spot. It doesn`t (INAUDIBLE) but it certainly.
PINSKY: Again, it`s - I sympathize with you, Janine. We`re asking - Judy, I will get to you to help me with the analysis in a second. Janine stays
with us.
Janine, you are used to evaluating normal people. He is clearly not normal. Also, if you look at his gait, he has got some Parkinson`s disease
too. He`s got a slow, festinating gait. That`s Parkinsons. How that could be all figuring into with the blepharospasm with meds for the
Parkinsons. Who the hell knows what`s going on here.
Now, the dismembered body case - Durst says no, the judge, I guess it was that adjudicated the dismembered body case says Durst is not crazy. We`ll
hear what else she says about him, mest.
And later, Bobbi Kristina Brown still on a ventilator, in an ICU, in a coma, of course, but so unstable she can`t get out of the ICU. How long
are we going to go here, guys. How long is this going to go on. Back after this.
YASMIN VOSSOUGHIAN, HLN HOST: I`m Yasmin Vossoughian with the "The Daily Share" at this hour.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
21:15:01
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DURST: There it is. You`re caught. You`re right, of course. But you can`t imagine.
Arrest him. I don`t know what`s in the house. Oh, I want this. What a disaster. He was right. I was wrong. And the burping.
I`m having difficulty with the questions. What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow, isn`t that interesting? We`re back with Vanessa, Sam, Judy, when you see that, Judy, you want to do some analysis here? When you hear
that - to me, it seems like he is responding to internal stimuli almost. So I don`t know what this guy`s got.
HO: That`s right. I think it`s more than one diagnosis, obviously. There`s a few things going on here, yes. In that clip you just played, it
looks like he might be responding to some internal stimuli, which is consistent with some of his other past history about paranoia. You saw
that in a couple of the documents that we`ve reviewed.
But I really think that as you guys were talking, as you and Janine Driver were talking about - his body language, some of the evasiveness could be
due to his Aspergers, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: They tend to misunderstand.
PINSKY: Could be.
HO: This is not making excuses. Whoever is saying - oh, god. We`re not making excuses.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Bring it up - bring it on. It`s not us making excuses. Do you know an Aspergers person?
PINSKY: That`s Parkinsonian gait. Hold on. Look at this. This footage right now. That`s Parkinson`s guys.
Now, is that Parkisons, Judy, because he has been on anti-psychotic medication for years?
HO: Right.
PINSKY: That`s a possibility. Does he have Parkinson`s - is he on anti- Parkinsonian medication and that`s making him a little crazy?
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: There`s so many explanations here. We`re watching television and we`re trying to arrive at conclusions about a very complicated situation.
BLACK: Whether it was watching - he could have been miming (ph). Anybody can see that this man is a murderer. Sometimes you have to call a spade a
spade.
PINSKY: Hold that. Wait, wait, wait. I have somebody that can do that. Janine Driver, the human lie detector. Let`s have her come in and she`s
the only person I know that has that ability. So during a break -
DRIVER: Here is the deal.
PINSKY: Go ahead, what do you say so far, Janine?
DRIVER: Well, I`m dying to say this. I`m dying to say this. When Robert Durst is asked about his whereabouts in California, he said California is a
big state. He then rubs his nose and does a shoulder shrug and he leaks contempt. So autism, Aspergers, contempt is moral superiority. It is one
of the top tell we see it with deceptive liars. One of the top three.
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: We see with powerful liars to justify the lie. You can see that.
PINSKY: You know what?
DRIVER: Also -
PINSKY: Go ahead. Janine, I`m going to say that`s why people hate this guy. Because he is wealthy, he is entitled. And he does have a certain
amount of contempt. People don`t like that.
DRIVER: Yes. It`s moral superiority. It`s I`m better than you.
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: Here`s another part, when asked about Kathy Durst`s mother - like what would you say if you saw her mother? He says, you know, he`s like
double-talking, which is irrelevant. But he then says this. "You know, she`s a nice person." When he says she`s a nice person, there`s like a big
pause, Dr. Drew - like four seconds.
PINSKY: Yes.
DRIVER: And then he does this body language move. Really subtle, his lip goes up. That is the universal sign for disgust. It doesn`t matter if you
are from Zimbabwe, Iran, Iraq, a murderer or an athlete, disgust is this. It`s really subtle. It`s complete genuine. Now, we don`t know what he`s
disgusted about. It comes right after -
PINSKY: The contempt I get - he`s just contemptuous, disgusted with everybody.
DRIVER: Contemptuous disgust but we don`t know what the catalyst is. Be careful. I think he is a murderer. But can I say because of these body
language moves that he is a murderer because of that? No.
PINSKY: Interesting.
DRIVER: We can see it means disgust. We don`t know what the catalyst is.
PINSKY: I want to hear from Sam. Sam, go ahead.
SCHACHER: OK. What about the three closest people to him in his life end up dead, Dr. Drew?
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Thank you.
SCHACHER: The wife`s journal.
PINSKY: And by the way, the brother has a restraining order against him -
SCHACHER: I know.
PINSKY: And it`s clear the guy has a problem. Again, could that be, Judy, another an underlying psychotic illness? That makes him a stalker, and
impossible to deal with, maybe he doesn`t take his medicines all the time.
SCHACHER: There`s violence there. There are two though. There is so much violende there
HO: Yes, of course. Because --
PINSKY: He urinates on the candy counter at a 7-11. That may be more than narcissistic superiority, guys. He may even thought he was in the bathroom
HO: That`s right. If somebody doesn`t take their medication and they have a psychotic process or even some kind of cognitive change induced by
Parkinsons or some other kind of dementia, they are going to possibly have behavior changes that include violent tendencies. So that is part of the
possibilities that we`re considering here.
PINSKY: I`m so glad that Judy is coming over to my side. Stay with me, Judy. Sam, you are expressing contempt and disgust. Go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: There`s journal entries from his wife that disappeared years ago, way before he was 71 years old.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: When he was middle aged that she recorded that he was beating that she feared for her life.
PINSKY: Oh, yes. He admitted to it.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: He talked about it.
SCHACHER: This is a bad person. I`m sorry. This is a really bad person.
PINSKY: I don`t disagree with that. I don`t disagree with that.
SCHACHER: Capable of murder times three.
PINSKY: I don`t disagree with that either. But I want us to just halt for a second and think about - we are condemning a guy based on a TV show
everybody. There is no rules governing what you see on that TV show. They can say anything they want. During a break in recording, Durst is caught
on camera rehearsing what he is going to say. Of course, they show that in the documentary, "The Jinx." So let`s all take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DURST: I did not knowingly, purposefully lie. I did not knowingly, purposefully intentionally lie. I did make mistakes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
21:20:03
PINSKY: Judy, that`s him responding to internal stimuli. He is responding to a hallucination. That`s not him rehearsing. Are you kidding me?
HO: No. That`s him talking to his voices, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: That`s internal stimuli.
HO: And I really hope that nobody here on this panel ever experiences that. Because that is probably one of the most frightening things that
could happen to you when you hear multiple voices in your head and you are actually having to respond to them because you can`t tell what`s real and
what`s fake anymore.
PINSKY: This guy is psychotic. I can listen. You and I Judy can arrive at a conclusion - unless he is fabricating this. Unless he is blowing
smoke to try to create some sort of distraction. What we are seeing here, if it`s factual, is a psychotic episode? Correct?
HO: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Absolutely. So people - he has Aspergers, he is psychotic. He is Parkinsonian. Vanessa, I need you to calm down, keep an open mind on this.
You are condemning this guy based on a television show. People don`t know what they are seeing.
BARNETT: First of all, his only diagnosis is old. You keep throwing stuff into this bucket and hoping something sticks. I`m not buying it. I`m
sorry, I don`t think he`s having a psychotic break.
PINSKY: Judy, talk to Vanessa. I can`t talk anymore. Judy, please help me here. Help the student. She won`t listen to me.
HO: Vanessa, I hear you. I hear your impassioned plea. But please listen to me. This actually needs to be understood that people when they have
psychotic illnesses, it can look very grandiose to somebody who has never seen it, a family member or friend. This is not possibly just done for TV.
He could actually genuinely be having this reaction.
PINSKY: Ladies, leave that up. Words are obvious. Because everyone else is putting oars in there on this case. Everyone has already condemned this
guy. I`m saying he may have done it. It`s possible. I think he may have done it. That`s certainly a possibility. But he`s psychotic. He`s
Parkinsonian, probably from his meds. That looks like a Parkinson`s from the medication. He has blepharospasm. He is responding to internal
stimuli. He is a stalker. He gets confused and urinates in public. I mean, this is a person who would be on the streets if he were not
incredibly wealthy.
His seeming entitlement and grandiosity could be part of his psychotic illness. This is really serious stuff. Yes, it maybe in one of those
psychotic states he killed somebody. Maybe that`s part of the deal here. That`s a possibility too, guys. Let`s remember that, Judy. That`s of
course a possibility.
But there`s much more to this story than you see on television. Be careful when you condemn people and become a mob based on what goes on TV.
Next up, Bobbi Kristina Brown`s aunt. She`s already ripped into Nick Gordon and has more to say about another family member tonight.
And later a transgender lawmaker busted for a bomb scare. And now her criminal record before transitioning is revealed. It`s problematic. We`re
back after this.
21:25:02
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Nick`s motivation to get involved with Bobbi Kristina and Whitney Houston in the first place was fame.
SCHACHER: Yes. Even if it`s not for money, maybe he wants attention. I say there`s a touch of narcissism there. He absolutely is using this to
his advantage (INAUDIBLE) a lot of the stuff that he`s done, he`s using to his advantage, for fame.
On twitter and on Facebook, he is capitalizing on the horrible -
PINSKY: On this tragedy.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Fame, attention. Everybody wants a piece of this, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Sam, Judy and the story you are tweeting about most tonight, Bobbi Kristina Brown has spent 45 days in a coma but listen,
everybody, do not just think coma. It`s a coma from which there are no reflexes, persistent seizuring from pressure in the brain. When she
attempts to come off barbiturates, so unstable from an overall cardiovascular standpoint that she can`t get out of an ICU. No response to
the external world. Limited reflexes. This is not a coma somebody out on the word breathing by their own, waiting for them to come to over months
and months or maybe no response to the external world for months and months.
This is somebody who requires intensive care in order to survive hour to hour. After eight days, the probability of a patient in that condition
ever getting out approaches zero. After 45 days, it`s zero. Tonight, the actions of her loved up are raising eyebrows. Her boyfriend Nick Gordon
did an emotional interview with Dr. Phil that ended up with him going for treatment for his addiction which seems to be just one of several problems
for poor Nick. Now her cousin has released a music video tribute, the same cousin who printed the pray for BK t-shirts. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
PINSKY: Now Bobby Brown`s lawyers are telling us this young man "has not had any communication with Bobby Brown or the Houston family. He must be
disregarded." The cousin claims the proceeds are going to charity. Sam, what is his motivation?
SCHACHER: I`d like to think that it`s sincere genuine motivation, Dr. Drew. But again it just doesn`t sit right. The sentiment I like. But
watching that music video, knowing that other members of the family are saying that he really hasn`t had a connection or has been speaking to her
in quite some time makes he had wonder why is he doing this? Maybe fame. Maybe attention.
PINSKY: It see seems like the fame card seems to be the one that is motivating a lot of people. I mean, Judy, Nick Gordon when he was talking
to Dr. Phil was completely preoccupied with talking about his - Nick Gordon`s fame. He is - does seem to be suffering. Should we be
sympathetic to the cousin or to Nick?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I think that there is an element of genuine sadness and reasons for why these people are putting themselves on TV. It`s the
best tool they know how. However, I do believe that as self-motivated as this seems, it can actually be a valid way of coping and distraction when
there`s so much pain in your life. I`m not talking about the rapper, I`m talking about Bobbi Kristina`s boyfriend.
PINSKY: Thank you for that. I was waiting for you. Because Vanessa, you wouldn`t let us talk about the psychotic guy who is being accused of
murder, but Judy wants to excuse this kid - let me make sure I get Judy right. She`s saying -
HO: Not the rapper.
PINSKY: You rap to deal with your grief?
HO: No, I`m not talking about the rapper.
PINSKY: Not the rapper.
HO: Not the rapper.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: She called him a rapper.
Look, I have cousins that would probably make a video for me. I know - I have cousins who will make t-shirts at my death whenever that is. I`m
asking you don`t. But I know family members like this. What I`m saying is, he may really love Bobbi Kristina. No one wants to take that away from
him. But at the end of the day, I don`t think is the appropriate time for a music video. I just don`t understand.
PINSKY: Imagine that this guy just has a faint connection with Bobbi Kristina and then he puts out a music video -
BARNETT: He wants likes and clicks.
PINSKY: My cousin. I`m praying for her.
BARNETT: He thinks this will translate into a long-term rapping career. I`m here to tell you, I`m sorry. This is not it. This is not going to
happen for you. This isn`t your opportunity. The door is not open for you to now be the next Jay Z.
PINSKY: Look at what Nick Gordon seems to be saying about his motivation to stay in the spotlight. Here`s what he tells Dr. Phil about being a
celebrity. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Just breathe.
NICK GORDON, BOBBI KRISTINA`S BOYFRIEND: Oh, my gosh. I made him more famous. Let`s do it.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Nick.
GORDON: Oh, my gosh. All right. What`s up?
DR. PHIL: You don`t know me.
GORDON: No, I do know you.
DR. PHIL: But you know her. What do you know about me, Nick?
GORDON: You are Dr. Phil. You are famous like I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: "Famous like I am." Disingenuine laughter. Did he seek out Bobbi Kristina and Whitney, the relationship with them for his own grandisement?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST, "POP TRIGGER": Gosh, Dr. Drew, I sure hope not. But it sure looks that way. I mean, to see him s joyously laugh when he is
talking about fame to Dr. Phil and pointing out the fact that he is famous - he doesn`t care if he`s getting negative attention or positive attention.
Just as long as he`s getting attention. You see it on twitter.
PINSKY: He is wasted.
SCHACHER: Wasted and probably high. OK.
PINSKY: Yes, he is completely high. Completely wasted. We don`t know what`s going on. I don`t know what`s up with the mom still. I`m trying to
figure out what was that woman doing? Why was she there? Why did she turn this kid over at a certain age to Whitney Houston? Did somebody want to
hurt Bobbi Kristina? That`s a claim of a family member. Coming next.
And later, a transgender politician`s actions are raising some interesting and controversial questions about gender identity. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
21:35:00
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON & PATHOLOGIST: The family wants to support the child and allow her to stay alive and everybody else ready to throw in the
towel.
PINSKY: Yes, there`s an absolute probability of people coming out - a young person coming out of an anoxic injury, not when there`s been no
progress in two and half, in nearly two months everybody. KARAMO
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: The family is in denial. They don`t want to say that this happened on their watch. This completely happened on your
watch. The same way it happened with Whitney.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: But if a crime has been committed, shouldn`t we at least keep her alive until we find out the full facts?
PINSKY: She`s going to be a vegetable, let`s call it what it is. That`s what`s going to happen here and there`s nothing any of us can do about it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Sam, Judy. That`s all I`m saying, guys. That precious resources are being squandered and this poor woman is being
unnecessarily kept in a position that frankly you - would - any of you - I`ll ask the panel. Would any of the three of you want to be in this
condition indefinitely? You want to be in a coma, you want to be in a vegetative - you want to be in a coma in an ICU so you can be rendered in a
vegetative state for an indefinite period of time? Is that OK with you?
BARNETT: No.
I don`t think anyone is saying that. I think.
PINSKY: That`s all what we`ve got here. That`s what we have here. I can tell you that`s it. I`m telling you, that`s what this is, for sure. This
is not the kind much of coma that people come out of after a year or two years. And if somebody does come out of it, they will wish they had not.
Because they will be completely altered, unable to speak, unable to communicate. Not be able to move. It`s going to be a disaster.
Not listen, day three, fight like crazy. Day seven, you start talking about making alternative plans. Day 45 or whatever this is, you really -
you have to get treatment for the family at that point to get them to come to terms with their grief. Judy, if you were sitting with that family,
Judy, what would you tell them?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, this is a very difficult conversation to have because the family isn`t ready to hear it.
PINSKY: After 45 days, they got to be ready.
HO: That`s right. They do have to be ready. I think the first thing you have to address is all of their personal guilt and everything else that
they are feeling with the situation. I think that is a driving force here. Each of them have a different way of expressing their guilt. By keeping
Bobbi Kristina alive, it`s a way for them to still have a chance to alter their own course and their relationship with her.
PINSKY: Vanessa, if somebody were to say to me "Oh, it`s a miracle, and I`m relieved and pray." Then let`s bring clergy in. Let`s get them to
help process this. Because they`re going to be realistic. They have been in these situations many times with family members. Why not that?
BARNETT: Look, I understand that it may be time. I understand what you said as far as her being a vegetable. I think this is all a - I don`t
think it`s even the entire family. I think this is a Bobby Brown issue. I think he is struggling with the fact he wasn`t there for his daughter. I
think this is very difficult.
21:40:00
I don`t know if you can bring in a team of doctors, a team of clergy - I think Jesus Christ might have to come down himself and really talk to this
man. Because how do you come to terms with that as a father? I don`t want to say it`s his fault. But your daughter has severe issues and he wasn`t
there.
PINSKY: Right. And the aunt - Bobbi Kristina`s aunt, Leola, blames Pat Houston, Whitney`s sister-in-law and manager, for the condition Bobbi
Kristina is in. So there`s all kinds of blame being passed around. Listen to what she told TMZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEOLA, BOBBI KRISTINA`S AUNT: My belief is that Pat Houston -- Pat Gowan, I call her. Because to me, she`s not a Houston. I believe that she has a
lot to do with it. Whether it be her actual hand, I can`t say that right now. But I hold her accountable for what happened to my niece, Bobbi
Kristina, because of what knowledge I have of her. I think that it was someone`s intention to put her where she is right now. That I do believe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow. Sam, is she implying that someone wanted to harm Bobbi Kristina?
SCHACHER: Yes. She`s implied that multiple times, Dr. Drew, on her Facebook account. You have to understand too that there`s a history with
her and Pat Houston when Whitney Houston died, you know, Pat Houston was the one that really went out and started that whole reality show.
This is why that she also has a lot of - she doesn`t have a lot of trust with this woman. But Dr. Drew, all of them are pointing fingers at one
another.
PINSKY: I see that.
SCHACHER: That`s a question I have for you or Judy because I think generally speaking, we can all relate to some degree - when there`s a
tragedy or death in the family you see all this drama take place.
PINSKY: Of course.
SCHACHER: People not wanted to deal with their feelings.
PINSKY: Not unusual. Yes, of course.
SCHACHER: Why is that? Why does that happen? I have been through something similar to that. We all have.
PINSKY: You will - we`re going to have to. I`m running out of time. But I would love to hear the story. But yes, we all have - your point is well
taken. What I think is around weddings, around births, around funerals, around tragedies like this, of course, that`s when the craziness emerges.
That`s whatever conflict, whatever residual emotion material becomes amplified.
But physicians and hospitals, and the hospital chaplain system, they are used to accommodating this. My greatest fear is that this family is being
treated special. I hope not. Because whenever a family or patient gets special care, they get sub-optimal care. They`re no longer getting the
standard - they`re getting something different. And the standard of care is what all healthcare providers provide for everybody because it`s the
best.
And in this case, when they go special, it`s no longer the best. Even if this family is getting threatening, they shouldn`t deal with it any
differently than any other family that gets threatening. They cross their t`s, they dot their I`s and they do what they need to do. They do their
job and do what`s best on behalf of the patient. That`s the person in trouble here. The family is suffering, but the patient is the one they are
responsible to.
Next up, a transgender lawmaker in big trouble tonight. We will tell you why.
And you can connect with us on Facebook. You can see our after show there and you can, of course, tell us what you think about anything. There`s the
Facebook page, Facebook address. We`ll be back right after this.
21:45:00
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: "I never thought I would see the inside of a police station again." That`s what 31-year-old Stacie Laughton reportedly said
before turning herself in. New Hampshire Police charged her with a felony for calling in a bomb threat to a local hospital.
Stacie is no stranger to making headlines. She became the state`s first openly transgender politician to be elected, easily defeating her
challenger. But she resigned when a past criminal history came to light.
Crimes committed while she was a man.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: The turmoil this has caused and there`s still a lot of questions that are unanswered. So at this time, I`ve decided to resign.
At this time, I`ve decided to resign.
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: About the bomb threat, Stacie told a local newspaper, "I have had a mental illness my whole life and I guess this was my worst
break with it."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Vanessa and Judy. A transgender ex-politician charged with having called a bomb threat to a local hospital. Police say
no bomb. They released her on $50,000 bail. But there`s more to the story. Sam, what more do we know about this incident?
SCHACHER: Well, as far as her mental illness goes, Dr. Drew, I know that the police allowed her to seek treatment for her bipolar disorder before
she turned herself in. She said she felt extreme impulsivity when she made the alleged call. She also said she was not under the influence at the
time.
PINSKY: Of a substance.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Now, Stacie gave a statement to my producers. Here is part of what of what she said. "I suffer from bipolar disorder and PTSD. At the
time of the incident, I was going through a mental health break. One problem was that I was not being properly treated. I was untreated for
nearly two years."
And Judy back me up here. Untreated bipolar for two years, you can get really really goofy, really, really crazy and do all kinds of impulsive
intense, over the top things. If you remember the guy that wrote the series about was it Pony, the African - yes. He went down to San Diego in
a manic state and threw his clothes off and did all kinds of crazy stuff. That`s what mania looks like. People can call in bomb threats and not be
bad people. They`re just not being properly treated.
HO: That`s right, Dr. Drew. Often times, providers will mix up the diagnosis of bipolar disorder, especially untreated, with schizophrenia.
PINSKY: Yes.
HO: Because there is that psychotic link sometimes when you get to that type of mania that is so severe.
PINSKY: But again, this is not - she shouldn`t be blamed for this. This really bothers me that this woman has - Sam, you are sighing. But this
woman has an untreated brain condition. She does behaviors on the heels of that. They are making her - they are shaming and blaming and sort of
holding her accountable for stuff that really whoever was treating her should be held accountable for.
SCHACHER: OK. But Dr. Drew, I agree. I don`t think she should be shamed. But blamed, yes. She should have made sure that she was on medication and
treatment. She was years ago though, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: She has a criminal history of fraud and conspiracy to commit identity theft. This is a criminal mind, too.
21:50:08
PINSKY: So Sam, she had a previous history that she didn`t share as part of her political agenda or political process. That`s something that`s a
little shady
Joining us by phone now, I got Marci Bowers. She is a general reassignment surgeon who transitioned herself to a woman. What is your take on this
case?
DR. MARCI BOWERS, TRANSGENDER MEDICAL DOCTOR: Well, Drew, I mean, mental illness is -- it`s frankly prevalent at a certain percentage in the
population. Transgender persons are represented in every profession, every socioeconomic level, every corner of the earth. And the fact that a few
people with mental conditions are also transgender just happens to be a coincidence.
PINSKY: But they made her step down. They blamed her. This is a mental illness shaming story for me more than anything else. I`m fearful that
they made the fact that she was transgender part of that story rather than just looking at the fact she had untreated mental illness.
BOWERS: That`s right. I mean, the fact is that transgender people in most every other circle, most every other person lives a perfectly normal life.
The fact that there`s this one person with a mental illness like this, you know, the two should not be conflated.
PINSKY: Right, exactly. That`s what concerns me about the story. It seems like it`s being told in such a way that it is. And shaming people
with mental illness at the same time. It`s like a double whammy. Well, thank you, Dr. Bowers. I appreciate it. I really do hope you will help me
as we - we`re going to try to deal more with transgender issues. I know we had a little bit of run-in with glad this week. It clearly they were not
listening to what we were reporting. I will talk about it after the break. But I hope you will help me clarify these issues and educate myself to stay
an asset in this - in helping people understand this condition. Thank you for joining us.
BOWERS: You know, the language keeps changing, the ground keeps shifting.
PINSKY: Right. But here is my point. We here are your asset. We`re an ally. Treat us as such. Help us do a better job. Don`t attack,
everybody. Let us do our job. We will help you. Do not attack.
Shape, I`m fine with that, but it is a shifting ground. You heard it right there from Dr. Bowers. That`s what it feels to me.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
21:55:01
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: On Thursday, March 12, 2015, members of the (INAUDIBLE) Police Department Patrol Division arrested Stacie Laughton, 31
charging him with false report as to explosives. Laughton turned himself in to national police without incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Vanessa, Sam and Judy. Police say a 31-year-old transgender woman with a history of mental illness and a previous criminal
record called in a bomb threat to a hospital. We noticed several instances on the police report where the police referred to Stacie as a male.
Vanessa, is that insensitivity? Is that them - intentionally -
BARNETT: It`s ignorance. I think it is. I don`t think it`s intentional. Ignorance. I don`t think they were setting out to set some kind of
precedent or say, well he is still a man. We`re going to call him a man. I don`t think it was that intentional. But I do think there`s a stigma
that when you don`t have the surgery that people don`t see you fully as that sex. So if you don`t go all the way, they kind of are in a limbo
state when they don`t have the proper information or they don`t know a lot about that community.
PINSKY: In 2008, when Stacie was still identified as a male, she went to jail for a credit card fraud, identity fraud, falsifying evidence. Four
years later, the rap sheet caused her to resigned. Sam, is that what this is all about, the previous criminal record?
SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: We need to hold our members of office to a higher standard. I don`t care -
PINSKY: So was the mental illness untreated, it wasn`t the bomb threat, it wasn`t the transgender, it was the previous wrap sheet that she didn`t come
forward with?
SCHACHER: That and the fact that she was not taking her medication when she was in office either. That`s not OK. I love the fact that they
elected a transgender woman. But I`m sorry. You need to be responsible when you are representing your constituents. And you also need to be
transparent and disclose your criminal past. So there is some shadiness here. Transgender aside, why is that even an issue?
PINSKY: Judy, as Dr. - the surgeon, the transgender surgeon, just mentioned, this is a shifting ground. People are very sensitive about this
issue. I intend to get it right. I`m trying to be an ally. I`m being treated like a problem sometimes. If I misspeak a little bit. What are we
to do? How do we help do this right?
HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I think all we can do is what you have already tried to do, some of and just keep asking questions and show them that we want to
understand. That`s how we show cultural competence of any culture, whether it`s another country or -
PINSKY: It sounds better when you say it. It sounds much better. Listen, I want to - Zoe (INAUDIBLE) came on the show. She did some reporting. She
did some careful reporting when she discovered that this story about - it was exercise planet - is that what it`s called - Planet Fitness had a great
policy, defending the transgender community. It appears that a heterosexual male took advantage of that. Zoe did some great reporting and
found that did some digging and discovered a heterosexual, non-transgender got into the woman`s bathroom because of their defensive policy to defend
the transgender community. That`s all she was reporting, everybody and she got a lot of trouble for that.
I`m telling you, listen carefully to what she reported. You can DVR us. Watch us any time. I`m saying, please, we`re going to talk more about this
as time goes along.
"The Forensic Files" begins next. Stay tuned.
END
