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ISIS Recruiting; GOP Congressman Resigning. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Got some more breaking news for you at the top of this hour here.

We have just learned within this past hour Illinois Representative Aaron Schock has announced he will resign. He has faced unrelenting questions about his office's spending. In the end, this congressional ethics investigation into reports he used taxpayer money to fund lavish trips, redecoration of his office, et cetera, we will get into that, has proven too much for him to withstand.

Want to bring in our CNN senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, and also our senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, by phone, who recently profiled this congressman.

But, Jeff, let me go to you first. We will talk about how really he was this rising young star in the Republican Party. But first, he's just released a statement. He's announced a resignation date. What did the statement say?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. This is really coming as a shock to all Republicans on Capitol Hill. Even Republicans in Speaker Boehner's office and other leadership offices were not made aware of this.

But in this statement released just a few moments ago, he says this. He says he's doing this with a heavy heart. But he said: "The constant questions over the last six weeks have proven a great distraction that has made it too difficult for me to serve the people of the 18th District with the high standards they deserve, which I have set for myself." He goes on to say he's resigning for that reason.

But it's the questions over those standards and how he conducted his finances in his office that really led him to do this. There has been a congressional ethics investigation opened into this. What this means, Brooke, is, with his resignation, that means he cannot be investigated by the House Ethics Committee. They only have jurisdiction over sitting members of Congress. So that, I'm told, is why he resigned, why he plans to step down at the end of the month, to stop that investigation.

BALDWIN: Huh. OK. We will get into some of the examples and some of the questions that have been looked into with Drew in just a second. But, Jeff, just staying with you, from what I understand, this has

been a slow drip, drip, drip from his office. You say it is a surprise on the Hill. When did this first begin?

ZELENY: Well, Brooke, it first began with the redecorating of his office shortly after the midterm elections last year. He decided to decorate the office in bright red colors, a "Downton Abbey"-themed office. That really -- it first drew the attention of "The Washington Post" style section. They came to do a profile of his office. Then I talked to him that week, and I asked him, you know, is he using public money for this? He said, no, he's not, he plans to pay for it himself.

But he said haters are going to hate. That's what he told me that day.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That was really what he said, Jeff Zeleny?

ZELENY: He said this was not a serious thing. But then it opened the door into serious questions being asked about his finances, and that became a drip, drip, drip. Politico did much of this reporting and recently was raising questions about the mileage reimbursements he was getting on his vehicle. Was he double-dipping? Those questions, that story just came yesterday. His resignation came today.

BALDWIN: All right, Drew. Jeff says the congressman said it was his personal expenses going into his "Downton Abbey"-esque office. I know you're the kind of guy who asks a lot of tough questions of people in the hot seat. Tell me how he reacted to you.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, when I met him last week, last Wednesday, it wasn't even a full week yet, he was trying to keep up public appearances. He was in Peoria, Illinois. That's pretty much the center of his district speaking to a high school. Later on that day, he would speak to a Lions Club.

He looked everything like anyone except a congressman who was on verge of stepping down. And when we went into him, he was trying to keep a stiff upper lip and control the media. I will let you take a look at how he was handling me on that day. This was just less than a week ago, less than a week after he announced his retirement from Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): A smiling Congressman Aaron Schock is trying to keep his schedule and keep up the appearance nothing is wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

REP. AARON SCHOCK (R), ILLINOIS: You know what? I'm headed into a school assembly, but you're welcome to join me.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Can we ask you some questions on the way out?

SCHOCK: You're always free to ask questions.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But questions for the 33-year-old once rising star in the Republican Party had been getting tougher to deal with. Schock has been under fire for a string of questionable spending, not the least of which is the $40,000 reportedly in taxpayer funds he spent overhauling his congressional office to look like an English manor inspired by the TV show "Downton Abbey."

<15:05:18> The decor fits in with the congressman's glamorous persona, known for posting pictures on Instagram of his worldwide travels, meeting with the pope at the Vatican, parasailing in Argentina. The single congressman even parted his shirt to pose for this cover of "Men's Health." Odd for the typical U.S. congressman, but as he told ABC News, he's anything but one of those common old men in the Capitol.

SCHOCK: As Taylor Swift said, haters are going to hate.

GRIFFIN: With all his sudden fame and attraction to the high life, the congressional watchdogs and media outlets are all asking one question. Where is all the money coming from?

And according to the congressman's own sloppy finance records, a lot of it is coming from none other than you. Reports reveal Aaron Schock using taxpayer and campaign money to buy tickets to rock concerts, travel on board private donor airplanes. He spent $10,000 splurging his staff on a weekend trip to New York, reportedly even a $29,000 bill for a professional photographer. And that Downton Abbey office makeover included a $15,000 payment to an interior decorator. Last week, the congressman from conservative rural Illinois admitted it doesn't look good.

SCHOCK: I know that when I take a trip and I post photos online, it can create the misimpression of being out of touch or an image that is not worthy of my constituents.

GRIFFIN: Today, after speaking to a high school class about his humble beginnings, Congressman Schock first dodged CNN's questions about all of this.

QUESTION: Can you explain this lavish lifestyle?

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: Then decided to answer the question without explaining any of it.

(on camera): Can you explain the lavish lifestyle you've been leading on the backs of taxpayers?

SCHOCK: I will say this, as I have said before, I take the law and my compliance very seriously, and based on the team of professionals that I have hired to review my office's processes and procedures, including the former head of the Federal Election Commission, and that review is ongoing. And I'm not going to comment further until that review is complete. And I would just say in the meantime, as you saw today, I'm focused on doing what I have done best, which is delivering for the people of the 18th District. People who have elected me. So thank you.

GRIFFIN: Was it appropriate to be spending $27,000 on a professional photographer or $1,900 on Katy Perry tickets?

Congressman, do you think it's appropriate to spend political donations in a kind of a slush fund, $24,000 in private plane tickets? Do you have any explanation? Whether legal or not, is it right, is the question? Looking back, do you think you made a mistake? Can you understand why people are concerned?

SCHOCK: I hope you enjoy your time in the 18th District.

GRIFFIN: Sir, come on. I have been polite to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Drew Griffin, you must have a lot of pairs of running shoes, my friend.

You're right. He did seem -- he seemed cool as a cucumber. I guess my final question would be, back to this "Downton Abbey" office, Jeff was saying he told him it would ultimately come out of his own pocket. Do we know if he ever paid that back?

GRIFFIN: Yes, we know that he wrote a couple checks totaling $40,000, even pitched in $5,000 extra in case future bills came in. He did pay that money back.

But it is interesting. I'm just as shocked about this as Jeff is. And you saw Jeff's report in my report.

Jeff, welcome to CNN, by the way.

But I think what you had was a congressman who was assigning people to look into his finances and see just how bad they were, Brooke. That's what he told me he was doing last week. I think he may have got some advanced information, because when I saw him last week, he certainly didn't seem like he was even contemplating resigning.

BALDWIN: Drew Griffin, thank you so much for the profile, the update. Jeff Zeleny, again, thank you, sir. Welcome to CNN as well.

ZELENY: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, we have more breaking news for you this hour. First, I have never heard of something like this. We have reported on a number of teenagers, Westerners wanting to join ISIS. How about this one? A U.S. Air Force veteran now accused of trying to join this terrorist group. Hear where he was caught and what this man allegedly wanted to do.

Plus, the millionaire star of HBO's "The Jinx" behind bars, accused of murder in a cold case. But his lawyer now says his warrant is based on TV ratings, not on facts. We will talk about when TV and real life crime collide.

And just minutes from now, the first exit polls releasing in today's Israeli elections. Will the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, will he survive that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<15:14:28> BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

There is a disturbing new chapter emerging today involving reports of Westerners traveling to Syria to take up arms with ISIS. This time, the man accused of traveling to Turkey and then trying to enter Syria is a former member of the U.S. Air Force. He's a veteran. He's a mechanic who worked on airplanes belonging to the armed forces as well as a major U.S. airline.

Our CNN justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, broke the story for us. So Pamela is joining us, as is Dan Caldwell. He's the legislative director for the Concerns Veterans for America.

<15:15:00> So, Pamela, to you first. Can you just tell me more a little bit about who this veteran is, what precisely is he accused of doing?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is significant, Brooke, because this is the first case we know of where a U.S. veteran is accused of trying to provide material support to ISIS.

And according to these court documents we have been looking for, he's a 47-year-old man, Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh from Neptune, New Jersey, who at one point, Brooke, was a mechanic for American Airlines. And according to authorities, he tried to travel through Turkey to Syria to link up with ISIS and join in their fight.

Also, as you point out, he was in the Air Force and he apparently received training in the installation and maintenance of aircraft engines and weapons systems. He left the Air Force in the '90s and then worked for several private aviation companies in the U.S. and the Middle East as an airplane mechanic.

Really interesting, Brooke, the complaint says that two of his co- workers expressed concern to the FBI in 2001 and 2002 because they said he allegedly sympathized with Osama bin Laden and shared anti- American sentiment. He also allegedly expressed interest in fighting jihad in Chechnya. Clearly, authorities felt like they didn't have a strong enough case for him. And then we know that he moved overseas, lived overseas for the past year-and-a-half and in January than attempted allegedly to fly from Turkey to Syria.

If you're wondering, Brooke, how he made it back to the U.S., what happened quickly is that Turkish officials stopped and they asked him if they could look through his electronics. He denied them access. They sent him back to Egypt, where his flight originated him from. Egypt deported him to the U.S. and he's now behind bars and expected to plead not guilty, according to his attorney, tomorrow -- Brooke. BROWN: Dan, to Pamela's first point, we have reported on them and

saying we have reported on teenagers wanting to get into Syria to join ISIS. We have certainly reported on Westerners. But this is the first veteran that I can recall who has been caught trying to do this. Your reaction, sir?

DAN CALDWELL, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: Well, first of all, the most disturbing part of this to me is his civilian experience on civilian airliners. Quite frankly, his military service wouldn't have been of much benefit to ISIS.

As an Air Force avionics mechanic, he probably didn't have a lot of combat training, so he couldn't help them out as an infantryman or as a fighter. And his experience working on American military aircraft wouldn't have been much good to ISIS, which has captured Russian-made aircraft that the Syrian air force has used.

But the fact that he worked for a civilian airliner, that is probably the most disturbing thing, because he could probably point out, OK, here's some weak points on American or even European-made civilian aircraft that we can exploit, either to take an aircraft down, to help hijack them possibly. That to me is the most disturbing part of this, not his military experience, which, quite frankly, wouldn't have been of much benefit to ISIS anyway.

BALDWIN: OK. A couple questions, I guess back to you, Pamela.

I know you have information as far as what was on his electronic devices, laptops. But the question really at the top of my mind is, how are these different people being watched? These planes starting in the U.S., going to Turkey, going to Egypt, how are people potentially being monitored for nefarious reasons?

BROWN: We know there's watch lists, there's the TIDE database, Brooke, where there are a lot of individuals on there at different levels of being prevented to fly and then someone that authorities are keeping their eye on, but not necessarily prevented to fly. So, we have that here in the U.S.

And what I'm understanding is that Turkish officials, because we know Turkey is the gateway into Syria, are ramping up their efforts at the airports and questioning people like in this example, asking to look through their electronics to see if there's any indication this person may want to be traveling into Syria to join ISIS.

There's more coordination really across the board with all these different countries because they see this foreign fighter problem as a huge deal not just in the U.S., but in Europe and elsewhere -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Pamela Brown, Dan Caldwell, thank you both very much.

Coming up next, let me show you a picture. Is this a smile of a killer? We're getting a new look today at murder suspect Robert Durst after his arrest in New Orleans. You know the story now. Lawyers for the star of this HBO miniseries "The Jinx" say his arrest is all about TV ratings. We will discus that.

Also ahead, two major developments in the Middle East to tell you about today, as polls are about to close in Israel's parliamentary election. There's word from Iran that nuclear negotiations are 90 percent resolved. This is big. Christiane Amanpour joins me straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<15:23:46> BALDWIN: He faces the death penalty, but millionaire murder suspect Robert Durst was smiling outside his court hearing today in the back of this patrol car here.

He faces new drugs, new weapons charges in the state of Louisiana. You know the story. He was arrested there Saturday, wanted in California on a capital murder charge. Newly filed court documents allege Durst was "lying in wait" back in 2000 to kill his close, close friend Susan Berman, one of three people whose deaths he's now linked to.

It is not still clear why after 15 years Los Angeles prosecutors moved to charge Robert Durst for Berman's shooting death. But his attorney is blaming this HBO docu-series called "The Jinx" in which Durst appears to confess on camera. He's also confronted in this program with a letter, here it is. See the word Beverly misspelled? With a letter showing how similar his handwriting is to a letter by Susan Berman's likely killer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK DEGUERIN, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT DURST: Bob Durst did not kill Susan Berman. He doesn't know who did. That having been said, my concern is that the warrant that was issued in California was issued because of a television show and not because of facts.

We're going to get to contest that warrant here in Louisiana. But we want to contest the basis for his arrest because I think it's not based on facts. It's based on ratings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

<15:25:10> BALDWIN: The producers of "The Jinx" are not the first filmmakers to change the course of a criminal investigation.

My next guest's work helped free the men known as the West Memphis Three, who wrongfully spent 18 years in prison for killings they never committed. He is Joe Berlinger, the director of "Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills."

Joe, welcome back.

JOE BERLINGER, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Hey, good to see you again. How are you?

BALDWIN: I am wonderful. Gosh, I read about you this morning. I didn't even realize when you all were filming "Paradise Lost" that according to you, this possible suspect came forward with a potential piece of evidence. What was that?

BERLINGER: When we were actually filming the trial, we had been embedded in the community for about nine months.

This is 1993. The first trial was about to begin. The stepfather of one of the victims gave us an unusual present under unusual circumstances, which was a knife.

When we opened that knife, we noticed that there was blood in the hinge. And since the three victims in the West Memphis case had been repeatedly stabbed, you know, it put us in a moral quandary, being handed a knife that had blood on it with a knife that had a serrated edge. So we had a moment of conscience. What do we do? If we hand this knife in, it could involve us in the case and maybe change the outcome.

It could shut the film down. But we -- you know, we huddled with HBO and with HBO's advisers, and we all very quickly agreed that, you know, we had a civic duty to turn the knife over, that our civic duty to the truth and to not get in the way of an investigation really was more important than a film.

And so we ended up handing that knife in, actually thinking it was going to shut the film down because of relationships and we just thought the whole thing was going to blow up.

BALDWIN: Really?

BERLINGER: Somehow, we navigated that and the film obviously continued. But it did present us with that kind of filmmaker's dilemma.

BALDWIN: It's incredible to -- I mean, to have this moral obligation, obviously doing the right thing. With this docu-series, "The Jinx", I know that these filmmakers thought a lot about when to give police in their case this letter with Durst's handwriting. They decided, speaking of moral obligations, to keep it a little longer. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW JARECKI, DIRECTOR: We interview Bob. We bring it up. We have it on film.

And now we have something that the LAPD is going to really want because now without all the bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED) without having to go through 800 different levels of discovery and all that stuff, we have got Bob reacting clean to this hugely important piece of evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Joe, there's questions about this letter, it's questions about this open mike moment and this apparent confession. When did they turn that over to law enforcement? They're not actually being specific as far as any kind of timeline. But my bigger overarching question would be to you, what are the

responsibilities for filmmakers who listen, who do care about viewers, who do care about ratings, but also should care about case they're covering? When you come into potentially incriminating evidence, what are your checklists?

BERLINGER: That's a great question.

I greatly admire Andrew Jarecki and Marc Smerling. I think "The Jinx" is a triumph on so many levels, investigatorially, aesthetically. It's a great series. I don't really know the facts of what they knew when. So this is not a criticism directed towards them.

I just feel like when you come in possession of something that has a material impact on a case or, in this instance, you know, this is -- if we want to believe Durst is a killer and he could have been apprehended sooner, the fact that a killer is being left on the streets longer than he should does expose people to the possibility that this person will kill again.

So I think filmmakers have a responsibility to weigh these things and to whatever the decision is, it shouldn't be what's best for the film, because that's just entertainment. It should be what's best for the outcome. That's my rule of thumb.

And, again, I don't know the facts in this case. I think nobody actually has heard exactly what the timeline is, so we should give Andrew his opportunity to explain. But in general...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Sounds like a solid rule of thumb.

BERLINGER: In general, the film cannot be the most important thing, in my opinion, when real lives are involved. And that's the larger issue here. I think this film has become, for me, a focal point for the larger issue that's at play here.

And that is, in the last two decades, there's an ever-increasing blurring of the line between reality and fiction, between journalism and entertainment. And we see that in all aspects of this desire for ratings, this desire to make nonfiction fit the conventions of fictional television. You know, well, sometimes, life doesn't fit the narrative arc of fiction.

BALDWIN: Right. Right. Right.