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Dr. Drew

Robert Durst`s in a Jail Ward; Whitney Houston`s Daughter`s Coma: Day 46; Bruce Jenner`s Transition: More Feminine Nose?. Aired 9-10pET

Aired March 17, 2015 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, Robert Durst just denied transfer to the jail ward psychiatric unit despite reports that the killer is, in fact,

suffering from a, "acute mental condition."

<21:00:06> And new developments on the evolution of Bruce Jenner, in his own words.

Let`s get started with WTF, the most shocking story of the night, dominating social media. It is breaking news, the police raid Robert

Durst`s home tonight in Houston.

Meanwhile, Durst smiled as he walked into court and everyone read something into that. I say, just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Bob Durst did not kill Susan Berman. He doesn`t know who did.

ROBERT DURST: Susan Berman was found shot dead.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: The first person I thought of was Robert Durst because we were about to speak to her.

DURST: I had nothing to do with Susan Berman`s death.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: The handwriting and misspelling of her address eerily similar to a letter written to police telling them where to find her body.

DURST: You`re writing a note to the police that only the killer could have written.

What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course. There it is. You`re caught.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: The warrant that was issued in California was issued because of a television show.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: "The Jinx" chronicles Durst`s connection to three different murders, his wife, Kathy in 1982, his close friend, Susan Berman

in 2000.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: In 2001, he was arrested for murdering and then dismembering his neighbor but was acquitted claiming self-defense.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I think it`s not based on facts. It`s based on ratings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Joining us to discuss, Loni Coombs, former persecutor, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell," Emily Roberts,

psychotherapist and Sam Schacher from "Pop Trigger," on hulu.com.

Loni, can those so-called admissions - and by the way, they were just ramblings of a man responding to internal stimuli, auditory hallucinations.

This man has a long history of talking to himself and responding to internal stimuli. Can the fact that that were recorded be considered some

sort of admission and then be used in court?

LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, yes. Most likely, yes. Look, the first question is, can the tapes come in? Are they admissible? Everyone

is talking about reasonable expectation or privacy. That only comes up if law enforcement is involved. Here, it was an agreed upon recording that he

was doing for those documentary that he consented to do. He knew he was being recorded.

So there`s really no expectation of privacy. So the tapes should come in. However, the question - how helpful are the tapes themselves if they are

played to the jury? Will they consider them to be an admission or will they say, "look, he`s just being sarcastic?"

PINSKY: He`s not being sarcastic. He is psychotic. Loni, why isn`t that being discussed in the courtroom? Why aren`t his attorneys speaking up

about that?

COOMBS: Well, I don`t know that anyone necessarily agrees with that. I don`t know if he -

PINSKY: Why is he - authorities at the jail where Durst is being kept have been trying to get him moved to a psych ward. According to the "New York

Post," here`s what a lawyer, Loni, for the sheriff`s office, not his attorney - an attorney for the sheriff`s office. He says "Mr. Durst has a

mental condition. It`s well-established. I won`t say it here because he`s protected by HIPPA - nobody can talk about what`s really going on with this

guy.

But it`s an acute mental status. He can receive the treatment he needs there due to his acute mental condition for his safety." We have just

learned that he will be transferred there, though we don`t know when. And so Loni, you and I talked before the show.

When the sheriffs are begging to have a patient transferred, that means they are really mentally ill.

COOMBS: Well, that`s very unusual because sheriffs are not the ones, the first one to stand up and wave the mental illness flag.

PINSKY: Tell them what you told me. Tell them what you told me.

COOMBS: If they are going to go along with that - if they`re just hallucinations, they`ll just ignore them but if they`re doing things like

wiping their feces on the wall and -

PINSKY: That`s right. Crazy stuff.

COOMBS: Yes.

PINSKY: Super crazy stuff.

COOMBS: Then they`ll step up and say, "hey, we want them in the psych ward."

PINSKY: Right. And that`s what`s going on with this guy.

And Sam, you get a little closer to the truth here with that? You understand this sheriff begging to have this guy transferred to a psych

ward.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST, "POP TRIGGER": Mentally ill or not, Dr. Drew, this guy is killing people, allegedly.

PINSKY: Maybe, if true.

SCHACHER: I mean, I`m sorry, somebody that dismembers - admits to dismembering their friend - I`m sorry, it was self-defense - that`s a big

red flag. If you were to shoot someone in self-defense, you call the cops, you don`t dismember them and hide them. That screams guilty.

PINSKY: OK. All right. I will grant you that.

Emily, can you put the two things together for us? I`m saying we got a guy who is responding to internal stimulation. I`ve treated a whole lot of

these guys. We used to have a whole ward filled with these entitled chronically psychotic, very wealthy people and they were insufferable.

They were very tough to deal with. I`ll grant you that. They didn`t dismember people. So how do we put that - how do we bring that in here?

EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I feel like there is some narcissism, as we`ve discussed before and there`s also these psychotic features. This guy

is dangerous and you know, one of the things we talked about and I really believe is there could be some schizo effective stuff going on here. I

mean, he does have the ability for him to be kind of normal in some situations and then have these psychotic episodes. But beyond that, he

needs to be medicated.

21:05:05

PINSKY: And schizo effective can be very tough to be around. They can evoke lots of unpleasant feelings in people. A close friend of Durst -

presumed a close friend of the dead wife or - yes, a friend of the dead wife spoke to CNN this morning about his bizarre and what I guess she

called violent behavior. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: She would call me late at night for hours about his violence and not just to her. I remember one occasion where she had a

friend, they had all been out partying, Bob included. She had a friend that was sitting cross-legged on the floor and Bob kicked him in one of his

eyes and broke the occipital bone.

I used to say, leave, get out. The guy is crazy. He talks to himself. Bob likes to talk to himself. It`s not the first time he has talked to a

hot mike without realizing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Emily, I mean, it`s a pejorative term, crazy, but, yes, we`re saying that. He`s got a chronic mental illness.

ROBERTS: Yes, chronic.

PINSKY: If he`s not properly treated and yes, he talks to himself. He responds to auditory hallucinations and here we are she`s saying exactly

what I`m saying.

ROBERTS: Absolutely and he`s also - it`s not acute. The sheriff says acute, this is chronic. It`s been going on for a long time. You don`t

murder somebody and then go steal a sandwich the same day. You want to get caught. There`s a part of him that`s screaming for help and he doesn`t

know how to do it.

PINSKY: Maybe.

ROBERTS: Maybe.

PINSKY: This is all speculation.

But Loni, it drives me crazy that everyone is filling in the story when they don`t even understand what they are looking at and what is almost

reprehensible to me is we have a legal system using television for their investigative reporting. Is that OK? Really? Television is doing the

police work? Come on.

COOMBS: OK. Now, you just hit a hot topic for me. I do not like the way this investigation has suddenly flourished once this documentary came out.

PINSKY: It`s ridiculous. They should be ashamed of themselves, right?

COOMBS: I agree. I think they need to be called at the (INAUDIBLE) and say what have you been doing for all of these years?

PINSKY: Exactly. So the guy has some crazy admission that they - and by the way, the documentary misreported what they were hearing. They said he

was rehearsing his answers. No, he was responding to auditory hallucinations and that he was having an admission while he muttered to

himself. He may have been having a voice, a hallucination. Emily, back me up on this. They can have these persecutory hallucinations going on. You

did it. You did it. You did it. A-ha, see, they got you now. That`s part of his condition.

ROBERTS: Yes, auditory hallucinations are often one of the biggest myths -

PINSKY: And they are persecutory, oftentimes, particularly with guys with this profile. And we`re hearing that he just had a neurosurgery. Can you

guys play the tape of his walking here. He has Parkinson`s and I`m going to bet that that neurosurgery was to put an implant in to deal with his

Parkinson. There he is. That is a Parkinsonian slowed festinating gait. He has mask like face. He has blepharospasms. He has motor slowing. He

has all the features of Parkinsons and we are hearing, the neurosurgery, I`m betting it is to put an implantable device and to deal with his

Parkinson`s.

Why are people not talking about the truth?

Next up, hang on. I got to go, Sam. We`re going to keep talking about it. He was seen today with a strange expression on his face. There he is. I

don`t know why that`s strange.

Later, Bruce Jenner in his own words. Back, after this.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: I`m (INAUDIBLE) with "The Daily Share" at this hour.

Finally, Nintendo says Mario and Luigi are on their way to a smartphone near you. The new direction is an about face for the company who for years

resisted making their popular products available on hand-held devices but mobile gaming represents one of the biggest opportunities for growth.

So Nintendo partnered with a major Japanese mobile game developer and they`re also launching membership service where gamers will have to pay to

play the company`s new products.

KnowYourMobile says Nintendo is now developing games for Android and iOs which means you now have permission to get very excited.

And Evonne tweets "Nintendo meets smartphone! The gamer in me just jumped for joy.!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

21:10:07

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DURST: I had nothing to do with what caused or what happened to her disappearance.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: You got a hat trick here.

DURST: -- in her disappearance.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: What`s really odd here is, Dr. Drew, when his eyes go up. This is not a normal behavior. He does a shoulder shrug which is

uncertainty. Bam, look at the shoulder shrug.

DURST: I am complicit in Kathy not being here.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: This is called distancing language when all of a sudden it`s Kathy Durst instead of my wife.

PINSKY: Got it.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: It`s this creating the distance.

DURST: He was my lawyer but he was supposed to find Kathy Durst. I mean if he could find Kathy Durst, there`d be no accusations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Some of these clips are from HBO`s "The Jinx" and (INAUDIBLE), even she yesterday was doing the evaluation saying "Listen, there is

something wrong with this guy." And I told her, he`s got Parkinson`s. He has some sort of psychotic illness and she agreed. He can`t use normal

body language assessments on this guy because he has advanced medical and psychiatric pathology.

Back with Loni, Emily and Sam. Robert Durst now charged with a 15-year-old murder. And Loni, as you said, it took 15 years for the D.A. to get to a

point where they issued an arrest warrant based on a television show.

COOMBS: Yes. Yes. You know, the big thing we`re talking about in the television show is this comparison of the handwriting. Why couldn`t the

police have done that? They could have gotten that letter and made the comparison. They didn`t need the documentary to do that.

PINSKY: Sam, why not?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, why are you bashing this documentary? I`m sorry, first of all -

PINSKY: I`m not bashing the documentary.

SCHACHER: Yes, you are.

PINSKY: The documentary did a great job. I`m bashing the D.A. for using a documentary as their determining element in deciding to pursue a case.

SCHACHER: That`s not 100 percent true. They have been investigating this guy for years and if this documentary helps put him behind bars, how is

that any different than, let`s say, "America`s Most Wanted?" It`s not. Let (INAUDIBLE) for him.

PINSKY: Good point. And Loni, just because I`m saying he`s psychotic, (INAUDIBLE) I am not saying he`s not capable of a crime. He is capable.

COOMBS: Right. And at one point it sounds like it was very good is that the documentary

was able to get him to talk. Clearly the police couldn`t get him to come in and talk like that for hours and hours, like he was willing to do for

this interview and that came up with this alleged confession that clearly helps the prosecution`s case.

PINSKY: OK. There`s a tweet up there alongside of Loni that makes me really angry. I`m not assuming that he has Parkinson`s. I`m telling you

those are the symptoms I`m looking at. If he held up his hand and there was a rash and I evaluated the rash, I could tell you what that rash

probably was. Just the way when I look at his motor activity and his gait here, I can tell you what that is. That is a Parkinsonian gait.

I can`t tell you he has Parkinson`s disease, I can tell you he has a Parkinsonian gait. I`m guessing because he has a chronic psychotic

illness, which I also can see as clear as day, if I were going to play a tape for medical students about psychosis, I would play this tape.

21:15:12

I can it as clear as day that the medication that is commonly used for psychotic illness causes Parkinsonian syndrome. I`m just adding - I`m just

putting the dots together.

Now, we heard he had neurosurgery recently. Why would somebody have neurosurgery who doesn`t have neurosurgical problems. He`s got Parkinson`s

and it is common now to put implantable devices in, neurosurgically for Parkinson`s.

Now he also smiled at photographers today as he walked into court. Show me that picture. And I want to ask Emily, why are people reading sinister

activity and interpretation into his every action? What are we doing here??

ROBERTS: We are assuming that it looks like that he is having - in a way, there`s hallucinations and there`s delusions, in a way he could be having a

psychotic episode here.

PINSKY: Right there, because he`s smiling.

ROBERTS: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Yes, he could be smiling, who knows what? Seen something.

ROBERTS: And he could also be thinking that he`s in the movie of his life, which actually would be a great movie. Because that`s what he`s doing

right now. He`s making this movie of his life.

PINSKY: And he could be an insufferable dude, right? It`s possible -

ROBERTS: Of course.

PINSKY: And he could be a murderer? That`s also a possibility, right?

ROBERTS: You`re correct.

When you look at his childhood, he didn`t really have the best opportunity - saw his mom die, maybe.

PINSKY: Maybe.

ROBERTS: Allegedly.

PINSKY: Allegedly.

ROBERTS: He had a father allegedly also was not the best person to be around. He hated his family name. He`s defaming them all right now in

front of us. He`s making a mockery of his family and enjoying every moment of it and so it appears.

PINSKY: Here`s another clip where Durst appears not to realize his mic is on. Again this is from the HBO "The Jinx" and of course when he`s wearing

a mic, and this is a guy with a chronic. The sheriff`s are telling us, he has chronic mental illness, that`s well established.

And a guy, if he were not wealthy, he`d be on the street muttering to himself. This is that kind of condition. So if you mic that guy, he`s

going to be saying things that are not necessarily connected to reality. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DURST: I did not knowingly, intentionally purposefully lie. I did make mistakes.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: They could just hear every word you said.

DURST: What?

UNIDENTIFED MALE: When you were talking to yourself.

Your mic is hot, so we can`t really talk.

DURST: Oh, I was reviewing this.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Your mic picks everything up.

DURST: I hear what you`re saying.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Loni, how come his attorneys don`t understand what he`s suffering from and that he can`t be expected not to talk.

COOMBS: Well, there`s two answers to that. First of all, I think right there he is making sense. That`s rational thinking through his answers. I

don`t see that as just rambling but the other question is, does the defense attorney see it but the defendant not want the attorney to talk about it

because remember the defense has presented. Ultimately, it comes down to defendant himself.

PINSKY: So let`s make that more explicit. So what you`re saying is he may have - schizoaffective like Emily was saying, some sort of chronic

psychotic illness, but because of his HIPPA privileges, even in the court, even to defend himself, he`s not going to allow his defense attorneys to be

explicit about his medical condition?

COOMBS: He gets to be the ultimate decider on what defense has presented. And if doesn`t want to be presented as mentally ill.

PINSKY: And what do you do, Loni, if you`re the defense attorney and this guy doesn`t have insight into how sick he is, doesn`t - he`s ashamed of

it, whatever, he doesn`t want people to know and feel. I don`t blame him for being ashamed. People are shaming him on this damn documentary.

But anyway, do you have any recourse? Can you go somewhere and say, listen, this guy has not got insight. He`s not making - himself. Do you

go to the judge?

COOMBS: Yes, you go to the judge. You say he`s not mentally competent to defend himself and stand trial and then they do a whole other hearing on

that -

PINSKY: Carry it, is that what you said?

COOMBS: (INAUDIBLE) hearing.

PINSKY: Hearing.

COOMBS: On that separate issue. But Dr. Drew, I`m still not convinced at this point that his attorneys believe that he`s mentally ill.

PINSKY: What? They must get a psychiatrist to evaluate him.

COOMBS: Not to the point that it`s going to affect his defense. It would make him legally insane.

PINSKY: I don`t think - I wondered about that myself, too. I don`t think that`s going to be part of the defense but it should be at least part of -

don`t they want to blow holes in the documentary, if that`s what the main investigative reporting is here?

COOMBS: Dr. Drew, don`t you think if the biggest symptom of this guy is narcissism?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: It`s the thing that is so disturbing. Listen, here`s what I think. When I worked for decades in a psychiatric hospital and it was back

in the days when they used to have chronic long-term psychiatric patients and they tended to be wealthy people. The majority of them are guys like

this. They would sort of narcissistic entitlement. That they were either schizoaffective or schizophrenic chronically and they were very difficult.

They were not fun people to be around. Where they could one of them ever have been capable of murder? Yes, I could actually see it. If they were

at a certain states or being poorly treated or something and out in the world and gotten agitated, they wouldn`t even know what they were doing

some of the time, I suspect.

21:20:20

But it was something that you needed to understand it was not a normal person and they need to bring that up in this. They need to not assume

that this is some sort of sinister psychopath which is the case that they are kind of building in the documentary. This is very different than that.

Very different.

Next, Bobbi Kristina Brown, when will the family speak publicly about her condition?

And later, has Bruce Jenner changed his appearance yet again? Back, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: This is not the kind of coma that people come out of after a year or two years and if somebody does come out of it, they will wish they had

not.

VANESSA BARNETT: I think this is a Bobby Brown issue. I think he`s struggling with that fact that he was not there for his daughter. I think

this is very difficult.

HO: That is the driving force here. Each of them have a different way of expressing their guilt and by keeping Bobbi Kristina alive, it`s a way for

them to still have a chance to alter their own course.

PINSKY: Listen, day three, fight like crazy, day seven, you start talking about making alternative plans. Day 45 or whatever this is, you

really, you got to get treatment for the family at that point, to get them to come to terms with their grief.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Loni, Emily and Sam and the story you`re tweeting tonight. The family of Bobbi Kristina Brown grieving, suffering and still

demanding that she have the absolute highest level of care despite there being no hope. This is day 46.

21:25:08

Emily, I don`t know if you have dealt with situations like this, but I have on innumerable occasions. How do you get a family to unify because by the

way, one outlier and it scares the hospitals, the doctors, they are all afraid there is going to be a lawsuit? How do you get them to come to

terms on what is really going on?

ROBERTS: You get hospice in there, you get the social work in there, you get somebody in there that can speak to them in a way that they understand

because right now they are being ignorant and selfish. They are putting this girl`s life - she`s miserable, right? And they`re doing it for their

peace of mind. This girl is miserable. They need to understand that and they are not because of the guilt and, quite frankly, because I think they

are ignorant. You need to get someone in there that can speak their language, meaning "here`s what happened to your daughter x, y and z need to

happen."

PINSKY: Yes, it could be a clergy, it could be a social worker -

ROBERTS: Someone they connect with.

PINSKY: Someone - but what if there`s one outlier, one person, (INAUDIBLE) and talk about miracles, one miracle. Sam, you cling to miracle ideas

too? Is that true?

SCHACHER: Up to a certain point, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: So even you.

SCHACHER: I know shagum (ph), not even me. I know Shagum (ph) would take that side of the argument but I think this is what is happening right now,

Dr. Drew. I think it`s a level of yes, guilt but I also think that they believe that if they pray hard enough that she will somehow wake up.

PINSKY: Magical thinking?

SCHACHER: Yes. That`s why a doctor needs to lay down the law.

PINSKY: Well, I brought a peer in, joining me on the phone is Dr. Mauricio Heilbron, trauma and vascular surgeon.

Dr. Mau, please help me explain why Bobbi Kristina would not want to wake up from this coma. There are comas and then there are comas. Let`s just

have a side bar positioned - this is a case - been on a ventilator in the ICU for 46 days, massive brain swelling, unable to taper the barbiturates

because there`s intractable seizuring, severe anoxic brain injury, minimal reflexes, no response to external environment and a family that can`t get

it. How do we get them to understand that this isn`t something that you don`t want to come back from?

Unfortunately, I`ve seen too many of these cases before. We always talk about brain dead. If they are brain dead, there is nothing is going on.

PINSKY: It`s a lot easier - it`s easier then. You say they are dead and there is no hope and that`s it, they`re done. But even then you`ve seen

people - at least you can get her out of the ICU that way. Because keeping her in the ICU is not going to change anything. She`s either going to be

able to survive on the outside or she`s not with brain death. But this is not brain death. This is like the ability to have reflexes or maybe an

ability to breathe on her own some day. How do you get families to understand, that`s not living?

HEILBRON: Well, here`s how I like to tell people. Now, let`s just imagine that inside there, just somewhere in there there`s a little bit of her

left. Not a lot. I mean, she`s never going to eat ice cream or dance or do anything ever again. But let`s just say there`s a little bit of her

inside that`s aware. And she feels them drilling the hole in her neck to put the trache in and she feels the tube that`s feeding her food right into

her stomach because she can`t eat anymore. Every catheter that`s coming out of her, every needle stick and she`s going to feel her joints start to

contract and her legs are going to start bending and she`s going to get infections.

PINSKY: Skin breaking down. Yes. And she`s going to be miserable and weak and awful. So we leave her like that forever? Is that what the

family wants to do?

HEILBRON: I`ve had families - I`ve had a lady dying of lung cancer that the family, when she went into kidney failure and was dying of kidney

failure, couldn`t allow that to happen so I had to put her on dialysis so she could die of her lung cancer.

PINSKY: Loni, what`s wrong with the legal system. Hundreds and millions of dollars are spent on futile care because we`re fearful that we`re going

to get sued.

Loni, what`s wrong with the system?

COOMBS: There`s definitely something wrong with the system, Dr. Drew. I think this is highlighting it for everyone. The laws just are just not

clear enough. They`re not strong enough. They don`t give doctors the authority that they need to be able to step up and say we`re at the point

where it`s medically and ethically inappropriate to continue this care.

PINSKY: Dr. Mau, do you feel that you can do that or are the laws to unclear, it`s too scary, the hospitals fear retributions and suits?

HEILBRON: No, as soon as a doctor says that, everybody raises their hand and say death panel, death panel, we`re killing patients. And they don`t

understand that we`re humans and we`re trying to look out for the patient.

PINSKY: That`s it.

HEILBRON: And we have good judgment.

PINSKY: And we have good judgment. This is an ease as a layup. 46 days with brain swelling. This is catastrophe for the individual. Listen,

there are catastrophic events and there are fatal events. There are.

Now, I`m going to switch gears a little bit and talk about this Aunt Leola who blames, Pat Houston -

By the way, Dr. Mau, I want to thank you for joining us. We`ll see you again soon.

Whitney`s sister-in-law, Leola, blames - let me see that again. Let me see this again. Aunt Leola blames Pat Houston for Bobbi Kristina`s condition.

Listen to what she told TMZ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUNT LEOLA, BOBBI KRISTINA`S AUNT: Whether it be her actual hand, I can`t say that right now but I hold her accountable for what happened to my

niece, Bobbi Kristina.

<21:30:00> I think that it was someone`s intention to put her where she is right now. That I do believe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Sam, do you think that - is she saying that somebody wanted to hurt Bobbi Kristina? Is that - is that explicit?

SCHACHER: Oh, yes, Dr. Drew. She has - she has said that a number of times on her Facebook account. She is not sugarcoating it. And she`s had

a problem with Pat Houston for quite some time. And I think watching them now point fingers at one another and all of this drama while she - while

Bobbi Kristina lays in a coma, can you imagine how they were when Whitney Houston died which Bobbi Kristina was privy to? That just gives us a

better understanding of what Bobbi Kristina - what world she has been living in all this time.

PINSKY: Yes. And Emily, I heard that it really is - breaks your heart when (INAUDIBLE) Sam phrased - sort of frames it like that. But this was

girl that had no structure, had addict parents, had lots of chaos and domestic violence, was not required to go to school. I mean, it just - all

the cards were so stacked against her.

ROBERTS: They were and I think that her family is still acting as if she`s alive. And what he said before was so profound to me. "Why would I ever

want to put anybody through that? And if I put someone through all the hell that she`s been through before, why let her sit there and feel this

pain for forever?" It`s just so toxic and terrible.

PINSKY: Did you guys get it more? Did Dr. Moe help it get through to you guys?

COOMBS: Yes.

ROBERTS: Yes.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I`m trying and trying and trying. I`m also, next, going to bring in an ICU nurse. She`s here with her thoughts about Bobbi Kristina`s

condition. So you can see how the nurses - how bad they feel when they deal with this. Somebody asked me, "What`s the first thing that happens

when you - the family decides to do the right thing?" I said, "The first thing you see is nurses going, `Oh, thank God`, just relieved and just

start taking things down as fast as they can because they`re tired of seeing the patient suffer.

And later, Bruce Jenner is going to reveal a few private thoughts about his family. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

21:35:01

PINSKY: After eight days, the probability of a patient in that condition ever getting out approaches zero. After 45 days, it`s zero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON & PATHOLOGIST: The family wants to support the child and allow her to stay alive and everybody else seems to be ready to

throw in the towel.

KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: The family is in denial. They don`t want to say that this happened on their watch. This completely happened on your

watch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if a crime has been committed, shouldn`t we at least keep her alive until we find out the full facts?

PINSKY: You want to be in a coma in an ICU so you can be rendered in a vegetative state for an indefinite period of time? Is that OK with you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And I`m back with Loni, Emily, and Sam. And as you heard, Dr. Moe helped us understand that if there is a remnant of something aware there,

all she`s feeling is pain and blood being drawn and new needles and IVs and drilling into her trachea to get a tracheostomy going and the tube going

into her abdominal wall.

Sam, did you have some responses on Twitter to some of these comments? Yes.

SCHACHER: Yes. I have a lot of speculation and even links, Dr. Drew, on Twitter suggesting that there is a number of people within the family that

are keeping Bobbi Kristina alive in hopes to get some sort of a docu-series to document her struggles. I`m hoping this is not true. However, we know

that Bobby Brown has denied his involvement, that he would want nothing to do with it. But some of the family members are not being as blatant to say

that they would not do something like that. I mean, we know what happened after Whitney Houston`s death. Immediately after, there was a reality

show.

PINSKY: Well, that`s what Leola was saying about - I can`t keep all the family members (INAUDIBLE) but I`m pretty sure it was (INAUDIBLE)-

SCHACHER: Pat Houston. Pat Houston.

PINSKY: --by Pat Houston, right.

Loni, you gasped when Sam said that. It`s a possibility, I guess.

COOMBS: Well, yes. There`s all of these speculative and allegations. There`s another one that Bobby Brown is keeping her alive because he

doesn`t - right now, he has decision-making control over her medical care and the estate`s going to pay for that. But once she dies and I guess Pat

and Cissy take over the inheritance and so he wants to drain the inheritance before they get it because there`s so much animosity. I don`t

know if this - when you hear these kinds of allegations, it`s like - it`s horrible. It`s continuing to torture this poor girl. I mean, they did it

while she was fully alive and now they continue to do it. It`s like who steps up for her? Who steps in and says, (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: Well, supposed to be the medical system. It`s supposed to be as in - yes, we live in fear of the laws, Loni. Thank you for that.

On the phone, I have a trauma nurse - an ICU nurse, Monika Gauthier.

46 days, Monica. You`ve - I`m sure - seen families like this. Has anything worked to get through to them to do what`s right for the patient?

MONIKA GAUTHIER (ON THE PHONE), ER AND TRAUMA NURSE: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me again. And it really - 46 days, it just blows my mind. I

have never seen, personally, a case go 46 days long. There is always someone in the hospital support system that steps up and really helps the

family through their grief and saying their goodbyes and realistically walking them through the process of what`s happened to the brain and what`s

actually keeping this poor child breathing through ventilators and medications. And part of me just feels like it might be the publicity of

the case and doctors being worried about public scrutiny of them being so black and white (INAUDIBLE) in telling this family--.

PINSKY: That would be - that would be awful. That would be awful for the patient. It`s not ethically appropriate. I hope they`re not thinking that

this is special or good care in some crazy way. Monika, tell me one other thing. People - I - before the break, I brought up the issue of what it`s

like when doctors come in the room and go, "OK, the family`s not unanimous. We`re going to - we`re going to move the patient out of the ICU." What is

that like for the nursing staff?

GAUTHIER: Oh, gosh. It`s heavy. It`s hard to support a family in that type of situation. And you never know the reaction, really, when it comes

down to that minute. So--.

PINSKY: What I - what I just see is nursing just a - breathing this huge sigh of relief, like "Oh, thank you. Finally doing what`s sane here", and

they just start dismantling the ridiculous - the excessive care that`s being rendered on top of what is sort of sane and appropriate care.

21:40:01

GAUTHIER: It is. It`s a relief to know for the patient`s sake that they`re no longer going to be suffering.

PINSKY: Exactly.

GAUTHIER: And they`re not - it`s not being dragged out any further. And then it`s a whole another level dealing with the family.

PINSKY: Yes. Thanks, Monika. Appreciate your input.

Did you just want to say something there, Emily? Did you - were you--?

ROBERTS: I feel like they haven`t had someone come in there. I mean, I really feel like--.

PINSKY: They have to. They must have. They must have.

ROBERTS: Right. And do they have someone that`s coming in more frequently? Or if - as the case - as the case gets longer and longer, I

mean, are they listening to them. I feel like there isn`t-

PINSKY: Well, no.

ROBERTS: --yes, obviously.

PINSKY: No. And the thing about - somebody asked me also what the features are that increase the probability that a family is going to make

good choices and one thing is education level. I want us to understand that what physicians are and what they`re telling them, how to interpret

it, how to listen to the science. Two is you - there can`t be sociopathy. People have to be OK with authority. If you`re - if you`re somebody that

bucks authority all the time and somebody in authority comes in and tells them, you don`t believe them which is a horrible way to go through life,

and there`s got to be some relative unanimity amongst the family members. And Emily, I don`t know about you but I suspect that human unanimity is the

big issue here.

For instance, Aunt Leola, she`s still talking - she`s suspicious of Nick Gordon`s behavior and she sends him a message through TMZ. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEOLA BROWN: And Krissy`s laying in the hospital, somebody that you love. I don`t get it. I get it but why are you doing it? Why are you really

doing it? Let`s hear it, Nick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Emily, getting down to Nick and his histrionics. I don`t know if Emily saw any of that footage with Dr. Phil but just wild histrionic

behavior (INAUDIBLE) intoxicated. Nope?

ROBERTS: No, I did. He - I mean, she was living a hellish life in - when she was alive and now that she`s almost dead, she`s living a hellish life

too. They have to understand - the parents have to at least - parents (INAUDIBLE) Bobby Brown has to at least come to terms with - and the

Houston family - terms that she will never live a normal life.

PINSKY: Never. Never.

ROBERTS: She will never speak a word.

PINSKY: No. She will not sing.

ROBERTS: She will never sing. She won`t even be able to eat on her own. They`re giving her a life of hell, essentially.

PINSKY: Chronic vegetative state. Chronic - then, I don`t know about you, everybody. If you`re thinking at all about this, get a - get a directive

to physicians straightened out here because physicians can be scared. Hospitals can be scared to step up on your behalf unless you put it in

writing, "I`m giving the physician the responsibility to execute my wishes and my wishes are I don`t ever want to live in a chronic vegetative state.

I don`t ever want to have insane care. I want to have sane care that`s reasonable and rational and appropriate so I can return to a productive or

some quality of life. If that probability is approaching zero or - as in this case, zero, I want you, the physician, the medical team, to step in

and represent my interests." But you have to put that in writing because the legal system will not help you there. It doesn`t protect the patient.

Next up, Bruce Jenner appears to have a new nose. Is it part of this reported transition he`s going through?

Also, please check us out on Instagram. We post photos of what`s (INAUDIBLE) going on behind the scenes. We`ll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

21:45:01

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRUCE JENNER: I know a lot of things are happening but I do my best to try to keep everything calm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been so much buzz about Bruce Jenner`s changing appearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Adam`s apple changed. He`s grown his hair out very long. On his birthday, he showed up with a bright manicure on his

fingers. So little bits here and there.

PINSKY: (INAUDIBLE) online reports that Bruce Jenner`s mother confirms her son is transitioning to becoming a woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she`s supports him wholeheartedly. She went on to say, "I just love him like I always have."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is challenging for the family. No question about it.

KRIS JENNER: So we`re having a good time and there`s a lot going on, as you can probably imagine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel for him because this is playing out in public so it makes it probably 10 times as hard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Loni, Emily, and Sam. Joining our group, Nicole Ramos, transgendered YouTuber.

TMZ reports that Bruce Jenner`s latest transformation involves surgery "to soften his nose." Jenner appeared on the new season of E!`s "Keeping up

with the Kardashians". Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Bruce on the loose" party.

BRUCE JENNER: I think I`m in trouble with this one. Brandon and Brody want to plan a party for me. That scares me. But I certainly know that

they`re doing it out of love for me and they want me to have a good time and I certainly so appreciate that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And Sam, he does seem very close to those boys, doesn`t he?

SCHACHER: Yes. He does. And who cares if he wants to soften his nose, if that`s what makes him feel better. Leave him alone.

PINSKY: Yes. I agree. We`re also hearing some new information about Jenner`s docu-series, apparently. And what it seems like, Nicole, it seems

like the further he gets away from the Kardashian machine, the better his choices become and the more sort of the transgender community is embracing

him as a representative. Is that - that fit?

NICOLE RAMOS, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: Possibly. I think maybe the audience that the Kardashians reach out may be isn`t the appropriate audience for

necessarily what he`s going through right now. So maybe the more he distances from them, it`s easier for him to be more open about his

transition.

PINSKY: If - and again, I`m curious. It seems like - don`t we have a tape of somebody from the transgender community sort of taking issue with him as

a representative? I think it may be in the next block. We`re coming up with that. It`s someone - apparently, I have a guest who was saying that

because of his association with the Kardashians, he wasn`t - he really wasn`t that representative.

Emily, do you think that this is a good idea that he`s taking it slow? That he is--.

ROBERTS: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes. And that he`s giving not just his family a chance, themselves a chance, but the world sort of a chance to come to terms with

this?

ROBERTS: I think that he`s gone through a lot of attention and he`s gone through a lot of distress recently. He was in a car accident - that was a

fatal car accident. He also is going through a divorce.

21:50:02

There`s a lot of emotions right now and adding this into it and taking it really abruptly, I think, would be really difficult. And as you and I were

discussing, the rates of suicide among people who have taken this very quick, abrupt - excuse me - approach to transitioning is high.

PINSKY: Yes.

ROBERTS: Very high.

PINSKY: It`s a very serious issue. It`s very difficult.

ROBERTS: I appreciate he`s taking it slowly so that other people can see if they`re feeling the same way, that they can do it slowly too. It

doesn`t have to be an overnight thing.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: That`s right, Dr. Drew. In fact, he`s taking it so slowly that that is one of the reasons, according to TMZ, into why he has now halted

production on this docu-series that will be chronicling his transition. So according to TMZ, not only does he want it to slow down so that he can be

more considerate to his three sons, but also, he wants to make sure that he does grieve this whole car accident, as Emily just mentioned. I mean, a

woman died and he was in that car accident and a lot of people believe - we still don`t know all the details - that he was at fault for that car

accident. But he is still set to do that interview with Diane Sawyer and he`s just ready, according to these sources, to put all of this rumor and

speculation behind him.

PINSKY: So Sam, let me make sure I`m hearing what you`re saying. So the - he`s not - the further he gets away from television and sort of the

Kardashian sort of circusy phenomenon, the better his choices seem to be, would you say? And that-

SCHACHER: I would say so.

PINSKY: Yes. And the more people are sort of looking at him as a - as a - as a good representation of this process, giving us all a chance and

himself to slowly come to terms with it because it`s such a public process here.

SCHACHER: Right. And he`s calling the shots. He`s saying, "Hey, I want to do this docu-series because I want people to understand what it`s like

to be a transgender but at the same time, it`s moving too quickly." So good for him for putting on the brakes because he`s not comfortable what

it`s doing to his family. Good for him. He seems very sensible.

PINSKY: All right. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<21:55.01>

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Several sources are reporting that Jenner will star in an upcoming documentary-style series for E!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think this is another ruse by the Kardashian clan and we`re going to see this on the next season of "Keeping Up with the

Kardashians" and it`s just another storyline. I`m over it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, if you lived with all those women, it doesn`t surprise me that he wants to have painted nails and long hair and wear

make-up. It doesn`t surprise me.

PINSKY: But we shouldn`t be jumping on this man, whether he`s making a transition or not.

SCHACHER: Regardless, Bruce Jenner is a human being and when you read some of those tabloids where people are saying, "Oh, he`s wearing nail polish",

or "Oh, when is he going to come out as a transgender?" That`s up for him to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Loni, Emily and Sam. I`ve also got Nicole Ramos here with me.

Nicole, you`re a transgender. What age did you decide to go through the transformation?

RAMOS: I was 17 years old when I actually started taking steps to transition.

PINSKY: And I`m sure that was a painful, difficult process. Can you imagine going through this in a public arena?

RAMOS: Definitely. I think it`s actually more painful for your family, your friends, surrounding people. I think it`s actually more relieving for

you while you`re going through it. It`s something you`ve wanted your whole life. But the people around--.

PINSKY: And is it - is it - is it accurate to say the transgender experience is somewhat of a mixed bag, that not everyone - you seem like it

really, really went well for you and relatively easily and--. But it`s a - it`s a spectrum, right?

RAMOS: It is definitely. It - there`s just so many different things. It comes with just as many positives as it comes with - it comes with so many

negatives. So doing this in the public eye is one of the biggest negatives I could possibly think of. So--.

PINSKY: Do you - now, you don`t represent the transgender community or GLAD or anybody? Is that accurate?

RAMOS: No. I don`t.

PINSKY: Do you feel comfortable talking about your experience publicly?

RAMOS: Absolutely. There`s - I`m not - I`m not representing--.

PINSKY: Have we been doing a responsible - hang on. Have we been doing a responsible job of covering this topic, you think, in this show?

RAMOS: Absolutely, in my (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: OK. Thank you. Is - can GLAD and the transgender community build allies rather than attack people that are trying to do this responsibly on

their behalf?

RAMOS: I was just saying that earlier today. I think it`s important for us that the people who are trying to help us aren`t necessarily experts on

our issues so we--.

PINSKY: And help me do a better job. Help me do a better job, that`s all I`m asking. Don`t attack me if I misstep.

RAMOS: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Nicole, will you help me do a better job if I say something slightly wrong or (INAUDIBLE) or one of my guests says something wrong,

will you help me do it right? You`ll help me?

RAMOS: Yes.

PINSKY: OK.

RAMOS: I will.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you, Nicole.

RAMOS: But I (INAUDIBLE) have said anything wrong.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you. But I would like that - I would like that same courtesy by anyone else out there, that rather than attacking your allies,

help build allies.

Emily, you know what I`m saying? That - it gets frustrating. It`s a moving target. So the ground moves under me almost every day and I get the

nomenclature wrong and I get very frustrated with that.

ROBERTS: I always ask my clients to explain it a little bit better to me. Help me understand. Help me understand the right words to use.

PINSKY: Help me help you. Help me do a better job. I`m happy to do it. And by the way, we`re trying to represent it, not hurt anybody. We`re

trying to help and to understand.

And you may have non-allies out there that are - that are not worth you spending your time developing a relationship with. It`s not us.

ROBERTS: Stick with us. We want to help you. We want to help you. We want to help other people learn about what to say and what not to say.

PINSKY: That`s right.

Sam, you get what I`m getting at here? You`re sort of been through all these topics with me on this show, right?

SCHACHER: Yes. No, absolutely. I`m a big advocate (INAUDIBLE) best we can but we`re not experts.

PINSKY: No. And none of my guests are saying--.

SCHACHER: (INAUDIBLE) anything that we`re saying wrong, please help us.

PINSKY: None of my guests are saying "We`re the experts. We`re representing all the transgender community." I had poor Zoey Tur on here

and she got - she got attacked for doing some investigative reporting, reporting that somebody was taking advantage of a progressive policy at a

fitness organization where a heterosexual male took advantage of that. That`s what she found out in her reporting and she got attacked for saying

that. To me, help us, everybody. Help us do a good job. That`s all I`m saying.

Sam, you`ll help me, right?

SCHACHER: Oh, absolutely. Yes. Likewise.

PINSKY: Nicole, Nicole, you`ll help me? Nicole, you`re all good with this?

RAMOS: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Thank you, Nicole. I do appreciate you coming on too. I think - I think you do a - you really do a good job at helping me understand this--

. It`s a - I get how delicate this is. I get it. It`s a painful, difficult process particularly in the current social climate.

22:00:02

Please DVR us. Then you can watch us anytime.

"THE SOCIAL LIFE" with Ali Nejad starts now.

END