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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Secret Service Director Makes Admission; Robert Durst's in New Orleans Courtroom; Handwriting Comparison; Robert Durst Suspicions. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired March 17, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

<12:00:19> ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we're going to begin with breaking news on Capitol Hill where Secret Service Director Joe Clancy just might wish he were back on presidential detail after his grilling over the past couple of hours by outraged lawmakers. Just a few weeks on the job and charged with reforming the scandal-ridden Secret Service agency, Mr. Clancy was confronted about the latest allegation of misconduct by Secret Service agents on March 4th. And sheepishly he confessed, he did not even know about what happened until several days later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAL ROGERS (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: You're in charge.

JOE CLANCY, DIRECTOR, SECRET SERVICE: Yes, sir.

ROGERS: This is an administrative problem you've got, among other things. Why did you not get word from your subordinates about this incident for, what, five or six days?

CLANCY: Yes, sir. Not knowing all the facts -- first of all, you're right, Mr. Chairman, there is no -- at the least of the description of these events, I should have still been informed of what transpired that evening. Anytime you have a senior level on the president's detail who is alleged to have even come through a secure area, as he did that evening, I should have been informed. And we're -- we're following up on that. And there will be accountability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There will be accountability. CNN's investigation correspondent Chris Frates joins me live now from Washington.

I'm sure your jaw dropped, like many others, during that live testimony on Capitol Hill. Were you surprised and are many other people surprised by that straight-up admission?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think so. It was not a good day, Ashleigh, for Director Clancy. He didn't have a lot of answers. You know, he says, I didn't hear about this for five days and then I only heard about it through an anonymous e-mail, not from my staff. That doesn't paint him in the best light.

And then lawmakers asked him, what happened? Were Secret Service agents drinking? He didn't have a lot of answers for them either saying that the Department of Homeland Security independent inspector general is looking into that. And then he got hammered for not doing an investigation of his own.

So this was a really tough day for Director Clancy. He did shed a little bit of light on what happened that night. There were some reports that the Secret Service agents who were driving the vehicle crashed into a barricade around a working incident. He told us that it wasn't necessarily that the car crashed into that barricade, rather it kind of nudged the orange cone out of the way and went around the barricade. And so we got a little bit more detail which tracks with some of the law enforcement sources I was talking to last week that this wasn't necessarily some Secret Service agents careening into a barricade but rather kind of moving around a working investigation.

But in any case, Ashleigh, this is a very tough day for Director Clancy. Remember, he was in front of the lawmakers who set his budget. And this was one of the first times he's gone in front of them. Not a real great way to start the relationship.

BANFIELD: Well, he's got another committee hearing behind closed doors later on this afternoon, so the day is not going to get much easier. Chris Frates, live for us, thank you. He'll continue to watch that for us and he'll break news as warranted.

In the meantime, other breaking news on the Robert Durst case. For the second time in 24 hours, the millionaire was in a New Orleans courtroom. And while the details of today's hearing were different, the burning question for Robert Durst was still the same -- how soon is the black sheep heir to a New York real estate empire to stand trial in Los Angeles on a charge of capital murder? It does not get more serious than that.

It's not going to be as soon as Durst's lawyers say they prefer. They say they want to get there. But a judge today has set another detention hearing on gun charges for next Monday. That's six days from now.

In the meantime, Durst was picked up on Saturday. You'll remember one day before the bombshell conclusion of an HBO miniseries on his, quote, "life and death." And 15 years after his friend and confidant Susan Berman took a bullet to the back of her head. Ms. Berman was on the eve of being interviewed by New York police officers who had reopened the file on a disappearance of Durst's wife which was back in 1982.

If you're not keeping up, don't worry. It is a complicated case. We're going to lay out the whole sordid story in just a moment. But first, I want to bring in CNN's Chris Welch, who is at the New Orleans courthouse. So let's talk a little bit about just today because it is getting very

complicated in terms of all the things that Mr. Durst is facing. I don't want to say not the least of which, because it seems small in comparison to first-degree murder, but this is a felony weapons charge and a drug charge that he's dealing with in your jurisdiction, where you are right now. How long is it going to take to wrap that up to get to the bigger business of murder in L.A.?

<12:05:20> CHRIS WELCH, CNN REPORTER: Well, that's the big question, Ashleigh. And if you talk to -- if you were to talk to Robert Durst, if you were to talk to Robert Durst's attorneys, they would tell you, we want to get out of Louisiana, we want to get out of New Orleans as quickly as possible. They were saying the same thing yesterday when he waived his right to fight extradition for those charges, those first- degree murder charges from California. But today he faced the judge regarding those charges that were brought by the state here in Louisiana yesterday.

Now, what we found out today, he's not leaving the state anytime soon. It's going to be at least several days before he does. After the hearing today, his attorneys came out, spoke to the press. Here's what they said in a very brief statement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK DEGUERIN, ROBERT DURST'S ATTORNEY: We want to contest the basis for his arrest because I think it's not based on facts, it's based on ratings. So we will continue to fight for Bob. We want to get to California as quickly as we can so we can get into a court of law and try this case where it needs to be tried. We'll contest the facts there and we'll try to contest them here. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WELCH: That was Robert Durst's attorney, Dick DeGuerin. He, of course, saying they want to get back to California so they can contest those first-degree murder charges. And in this hearing today, Ashleigh, he, in fact, brought up this documentary "The Jinx." It was -- it was -- the whole day started -- the whole hearing started when the government argued for a detention hearing to be set for Monday. Dick DeGuerin, Mr. Durst's attorney, then said, that seems like an unnecessary amount of time. They argued for that to happen this Friday so that he could get out of here by the weekend. They said this case -- the case in California -- is based not on facts but on a television special, on ratings alone. So they want to get out of here.

But then again, turned back to the government. The government presented an argument for holding that hearing on Monday. They say they need time to collect evidence from other jurisdictions from prior, smaller convictions, Ashleigh. And the judge then sided with the government and said that hearing will be on Monday for his detention.

BANFIELD: They've got their work cut out for them because there's a shopping list of those other incidents and they're not all minor either. They go all the way to another murder allegation. First of all, I was astounded to hear Dick DeGuerin, that lead

attorney, a well thought of attorney, say, we're going to get to contest that warrant from L.A. here in Louisiana because he believes that that warrant for murder was issued because of a TV show and not based on facts. That is a huge allegation to make against the L.A. County authorities who have issued that murder warrant. But what about Mr. Durst himself? What is he like in court? Today it was an old man who they talked about needing pain medication. Now, a day later, any difference?

WELCH: Right, we heard that argument yesterday from his attorney saying -- making the case that he needs those pain medications. I have to say, Ashleigh, he almost seemed a little more peculiar today. We talked yesterday about the glass enclosure that he was sort of kept in, away from the other inmates that also participated in this hearing today. And before the hearing began, in that glass enclosure, he appeared to be sort of chuckling to himself in this enclosure. For a second I had to do a double take and see if there was someone across the glass screen, maybe one of his attorneys, speaking with him. There was no one there. So he was chuckling at times, again, eyeing the media. And when he was brought out, when it was his turn to face the judge, he was again shackled, led out by a belt by the bailiff, faced the judge but, again, eyeing the media and it just -- just very interesting behavior by a 71-year-old (INAUDIBLE).

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I think that's the understatement of the last 33 years, that this is an interesting character.

WELCH: Yes.

BANFIELD: He is bizarre, to say the very least. Chris Welch, excellent work. Keep us posted on whatever this contest the warrant here means because clearly those lawyers are working hard in Louisiana to stop the process in L.A.

While Chris gets back to work in that courthouse, eccentric doesn't even begin to describe Robert Durst. Coming up next, you're going to hear what his dead wife's brother and a former homicide detective have to say about the millionaire murder suspect. And I'm also going to speak with a handwriting expert about those letters. Those letters that may very well see their way into court and be presented in front of a jury. A jury that has to determine if two letters were written by the same hand, that man's hand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<12:13:08> BANFIELD: Robert Durst's words may be used against him. And I don't just mean those mumblings into the open mike in an otherwise private restroom caught by the HBO documentary "The Jinx." I'm talking about these words on handwritten letters that Durst acknowledges actually sending his friend Susan Berman. That's the one on the bottom with his name in the upper left-hand corner. But it has obvious similarities to the note above it. The note that directed authorities to Berman's cadaver. See how it just says Beverly Hills Police on it? It was an anonymous note that they got. Durst saw for himself in the closing moments of his HBO interviews and had to answer to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT DURST, SUSPECTED IN FRIEND'S 2000 MURDER: Well, what I see as a similarity is really the misspelling in the Beverly. Other than that, the block letters are block letters. How else would you write a block letter than that? I mean -- I mean it's almost like a typed thing. It's going to look -- with two typewriters, it's going to look the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you wrote one of these but you didn't write the other one?

DURST: I wrote this one but I did not write the cadaver one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And can you tell me which one you didn't write?

DURST: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wow. Can you tell me which one you didn't write? He's looking right at them and says no. So while that no hangs in the air for a second, I want to introduce someone who may know better. His name is Bart Baggett and he's a handwriting expert from HandwritingUniversity.com. He's also been an expert, testifying in a number of trials about handwriting.

Bart, thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today.

BART BAGGETT, HANDWRITING EXPERT: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Your first impression when you see those two letters side by side?

<12:14:57> BAGGETT: Well, my first impression is like everybody's first impression. It is strikingly similar. The e's are the same. The n is the same. Of course the Beverly is the one that the media is talking about. But there is so many similarities. If I was working with the D.A., I would definitely press the issue of the handwriting as a critical piece of this story.

BANFIELD: OK. So when we look at it with the untrained eye, we just see that they look similar. But when you see it, you're not just looking at the formation of the letters, you're seeing other things. When we keep that picture big, point out to me what it is that you're looking at differently?

BAGGETT: Well, one of the things that -- and thank God people like Robert and other people think that we don't exist because they're like, oh, that's just typewriting. You might as well type that. But handwriting is from the unconscious mind. So you see the way the e's are formed. The very specific. He has two different e's. One has a wavy line. One has a three stroke e. We've got the 1527. And that is probably the most critical thing I've noticed from the limit of evidence is, if you look at the 1527 and you overlay them, not only are the letter formations or the numeral formations the same, but the spacing is the same, as well as the alignment. And so the two -- a lot of us write 2s like that, a lot of us write 7s like that, but do we all put them with the exact same spacing and the same wave? I don't think so.

BANFIELD: So I --I was looking at -- at the word "canyon" between these -- these two letters. And, unfortunately, on our upper letter, you can't see the address fully. There's actually the word "canyon" is written in both. And they look absolutely identical from the angle of the letter --

BAGGETT: Yes.

BANFIELD: To, like you said, the spacing between them. So see "canyon" on the right? It looks as though it's written in two different words, can and yon.

BAGGETT: Yes.

BANFIELD: And then if we go to the other letter, look at the word "canyon" specifically with that "y" and the "n" right down below.

BAGGETT: Well, I thought -- I thought the "n" was really unique because it kind of curves and has a concave to it, which is a little bit abnormal. And what you're looking for is unique characteristics that the rest of the population doesn't have. So the "n," the "b" is very unique. You know, the 2, all of these things are in itself maybe some of us have some of them. But do we all have them together in the same spacing, same rhythm and same cadence? That's what we're looking for. And even printing, which is a little bit harder rule of evidence to be conclusive, I think there's so much evidence that says this is the same writer, it's uncanny.

BANFIELD: Spacing and cadence, it's fascinating. Can I ask our control room to put those two envelopes next to each other up and down, because if you look at the word "Beverly" and everyone pointed out it's spelled wrong.

BAGGETT: Right.

BANFIELD: The same way in both letters. The space between the final "e" and the "y" on both of those letters, does that -- is there anything there? Maybe I'm looking too deeply into it, but it looks like there's a -- there's a lag before you get to that final "y" in both of them.

BAGGETT: That's a great observation. And that is exactly what you would do. If I had a couple of hours with lots of handwriting samples of him, we would look at every case between an "e" and a "y," every case between a 125 and we would look at the spacing because people unconsciously space letters similar, especially in cursive writing when they're connected. So what you pointed out, including the "c" "a" -- in fact, since I work in Los Angeles, I see California all the time in my case work. I've testified 50 times in trial. And people write the c-a connected. Sometimes they're not connected. The "a" is like four or five different ways. So what you're pointing out is an unconscious hesitation and it's probably consistent in the rest of his known writing. And when a D.A. calls an expert witness like me, we'll have the opportunity to have looked at dozens of other samples of his printing and I think we'll find a match.

BANFIELD: Are you going to get a call on this case?

BAGGETT: I might. I work in L.A. I've worked with the D.A. before. We'll see. Now that I've been on your show, they may think I'm tainted.

BANFIELD: Wow. Well, there is that possibility. Bart, thank you. I've always been fascinated by your insight and, in this particular case, you were the first person I thought of. Bart Baggett, thank you so much. Good to see you again, sir.

BAGGETT: Thank you. Thank you, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, eccentric doesn't even begin to describe Robert Durst. We've said this before. We'll say it again. Coming up next, his dead wife's brother speaks out about all the last decades and what they've been through. And a homicide detective talks about just how tough this has been watching that man, what he thinks, you know, get away with murder.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

<12:22:36> BANFIELD: For 33 of Robert Durst's 71 years, he's been at the very least suspected in the deaths or presumed deaths of people close to him. But he's never been held to account potentially until now. And I want to stress potentially. Here's CNN's Kyung Lah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Robert Durst in his mug shot in New Orleans, an image three families have waited years, decades to see. The millionaire heir was nabbed in the lobby of a Marriott pacing back and forth caring a .38 revolver, staying under a false name with a fake driver's license. A law enforcement official says it appears Durst was preparing to flee to Cuba.

LAH (on camera): Are the walls coming in on Robert Durst?

JIM MCCORMACK, BROTHER OF KATHIE MCCORMACK: I would think so.

LAH (voice-over): Jim McCormack is the brother of Kathie McCormack, Robert Durst's first wife. Jim McCormick says his sister wrote in her journal that she feared her husband, that he abused her. She was planning to divorce him. January 1982, they have a fight and she vanishes.

Durst takes four days to report her missing to now-retired NYPD homicide detective Mike Struk. Struk never nails his prime suspect.

MIKE STRUK, RETIRED NYPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: It keeps coming back to the fact that we never found her body. We never even had a crime scene. LAH (on camera): No evidence?

STRUK: No evidence, no crime scene.

LAH (voice-over): The case grows cold until 2000 when investigators reopen it. This time, the millionaire flees New York to this rundown apartment in Galveston, Texas, hiding out, cross-dressing and posing as a mute woman. For months, he's speaking to virtually no one except this woman, Susan Berman. New York investigators decide to interview her. But before she could be questioned, around Christmas 2000, someone shoots Berman execution-style in her Beverly Hills home. The killer sends police this anonymous handwritten note obtained and shown in the HBO docu-series "The Jinx." The note lists Berman's address and one word, "cadaver."

LAH (on camera): When she died, what did you think?

MCCORMACK: In my heart I said, Bob is eliminating the witnesses and people who have knowledge of Kathie's passing.

LAH (voice-over): In "The Jinx," a new stunning revelation by the stepson of Susan Berman. In a storage box, the stepson comes across a letter Durst sent to Berman shortly before she died. Durst's handwriting, the killer's note to police, they bear remarkable similarities, down to the misspelling of "Beverly."

<12:25:09> In the final episode of "The Jinx," Robert Durst is presented with a close match between his handwriting and the killer's. On camera he appears unfazed. He then walks away to the restroom, his mike still on. The camera records as he talks to himself.

ROBERT DURST (voice-over): There it is, you're caught. What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course.

LAH: Durst's attorney pledge his client will be vindicated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob Durst didn't kill Susan Berman. He's ready to end all the rumor and speculation and have a trial.

LAH: Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: I want to talk more about that Galveston case with the lead investigator on that case, Cody Cazalas. He was featured in the HBO documentary "The Jinx."

Detective, thank you so much for being here today. First of all, here we are 15 years later and you're right back at square one effectively. It isn't your case. But can you see the same things playing out right now that you had to deal with back in 2000?

DET. CODY CAZALAS, GALVESTON, TEXAS, SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Thank you for having me.

Yes, it's like deja vu. His attorneys are practically saying the same thing they said before my trial when he was taken into custody in Pennsylvania and extradited back to Galveston, Texas.

BANFIELD: Because he had jumped bail.

CAZALAS: Because he had fled for six weeks after jumping bail. So --

BANFIELD: Yes. Caught with a disguise. Caught with a fake ID. Caught paying cash, right?

CAZALAS: Correct. He -- he had rented a car -- he had shaved his head, rented a car as the -- my victim, Morris Black, in Mobile, Alabama, was posing as Morris Black at the time of his arrest and had false names, false bank accounts, set up in false names. And then, you know, his attorneys come on and say, he's eager to get back to Galveston and, you know, and --

BANFIELD: And this time around, on Saturday, he's with a fake name, he's with a fake driver's license, he's paying cash at a hotel again. I mean it's -- it is bizarre and uncanny the similarities. Do you think he was headed to Cuba as some are surmising --

CAZALAS: Oh, --

BANFIELD: Trying to escape the possibility of what's happening now?

CAZALAS: There is no doubt in my mind he was trying to flee. I mean why would you rent a hotel room under an assumed name and pay cash if -- you know? Yes, there's not a doubt in my mind.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you this. What went wrong in Texas? The man cut Morris Black into 10 pieces and tossed him into Galveston Bay in black garbage bags. And that jury didn't think that he was a murder?

CAZALAS: Well, there were several things that went wrong in that trial, unfortunately. One, the defense attorney was able to successfully turn him into the victim. And the -- and the jury was already starting to feel sympathy for him way before deliberations. They were able to paint him on the run, scared to go to New York, which was --

BANFIELD: On the run from a D.A. they said was overly aggressive?

CAZALAS: From an investigation -- from an investigation of his missing wife.

BANFIELD: They don't have that this time around. They don't have a boogeyman like Jeanine Pirro (ph), the Westchester DA back then, who they said was chasing him all over the country for her own political gain. They don't have that boogeyman, or do they? Do they have it in the HBO documentarian?

CAZALAS: I don't think they do because in the -- the docu-drama that Andrew Jarecki and Marc Smerling put together was, he volunteered to do it. He wanted to do it. So they don't have that this time around.

BANFIELD: Are you working with L.A. this time? Are you talking to them? Are they talking to you? CAZALAS: No, no, I'm not in -- associated with their investigation at

all.

BANFIELD: Do -- will you be?

CAZALAS: I wish them all the luck in the world.

BANFIELD: It is so fascinating. Thank you so much. I could talk to you for hours.

CAZALAS: Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: This case is just sort of stuck in my craw for I'm sure longer than -- well, not as long as it's stuck in your craw.

CAZALAS: Yes. Yes, ma'am.

BANFIELD: Thank you so much, Cody. Good to see you.

CAZALAS: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Cody Cazalas joining us.

And coming up, Los Angeles Police say a long investigation and evidence not an HBO documentary was what led them to launch those murder charges against Robert Durst. So what exactly does L.A. have? What are they keeping close to the vest? What are we going to find out next about Robert Durst?

12:29:10

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