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Yemen Bombings; Libya Camps; UVA Student Forum; Smart Speaks Out; Cold Case Ties. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 20, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: "News Center" is next. For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for watching CNN on this Friday.

I've got to begin this hour with the deadly news of another deadly terror attack. First, the deadly museum siege in Tunisia we've been talking about the last couple days. Now I need to tell you about the suicide bombings in Yemen. And for the second time this week, ISIS is claiming responsibility. And while we cannot confirm the group's claim, just the shear brutality of today's attacks bear the hallmarks of ISIS.

This all happened in Sanaa. This is the turbulent capital of Yemen. Suicide bombers carrying out coordinated attacks on not just one but two Shiite mosques. ISIS, of course, claims the Shiites are apostates (ph) who must be killed. The bombs exploded during crowded Friday prayers. And you can see some of the bloodied aftermath.

The attacks ensuring mass casualties here. The number of reported dead is absolutely staggering. One hundred and thirty-five people killed. And let me just warn you, that number continues to grow. As far as injuries, more than 300 wounded.

CNN's Barbara Starr joins me now from the Pentagon.

And let me just begin with this ISIS claim. I understand that ISIS is not only claiming responsibility for the suicide attacks at these mosques, Barbara, but this is just the beginning of what they're claiming. How is the administration responding to this?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I have to tell you very cautiously from the White House to the Pentagon to the intelligence community, very caveated, very cautious response because they are not convinced yet that ISIS is behind all of these claims. You know, how do you prove it? How do you prove who the attackers were? In so many of these areas there are local militants who have affiliated themselves with either ISIS or al Qaeda or some of the local organizations. They stage spectacular attacks. They know they get world attention, they get publicity, they get funding, they get recruits. So you see this trend emerging very violently across the region. I think it's fair to say that is the focus of a lot of the concern.

Whatever they call themselves, it is the impact of what they are doing. And now just this week we see it from the horn of Africa with Yemen, all the way across into North Africa to Tunisia. We see claims that Libya has training camps for these people. And one of the themes under all of this, Brooke, in all of these places where you see these militants emerge, there are very weak central governments, not really able to control their territory. And it is these groups, whatever they call themselves, whoever they say they are, that are exploiting that weakness and they are able to flourish.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: The geopolitical ramifications, we'll explore all of that with Fareed Zakaria in just a moment. But I think, just to stick with the point in Yemen, Barbara, we have reported that there was, you know, a local branch, if you will, of ISIS reported just a couple of months ago there. If this indeed is ISIS, it's significant because it would be the first ISIS attack in Yemen, correct?

STARR: Well, you know, they have made a lot of claims. They've made a lot of claims all over the place, including Yemen. This certainly the most deadly, the most spectacular, one of the things that U.S. intelligence will be looking at, who had access to the level and sophistication of explosives to cause such massive damage. No shortage of explosives in Yemen, but somebody knew how to put all of this together, knew exactly where they were going to this mosque, to these two mosques, and carrying this out essentially when they knew it would be full of people. So this had some planning, it had some organization.

It's a big concern for the United States in Yemen in particular because indeed the al Qaeda affiliate there has vowed to attack the United States. There is no central government fully in charge to challenge that al Qaeda affiliate. So seeing this literal mayhem in this country of Yemen, a tragedy for the people there, but a big security concern for the U.S., Brooke.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

You know, Barbara mentioned also what we've been reporting on, this massacre at this museum in Tunisia here. The chilling threat of ISIS as it is claiming responsibility, not just as we were reporting the suicide bombings at those mosques in the Yemeni capital, but the deadly siege at that museum in the capital of Tunisia. It was a siege that killed dozens, many of whom were western tourists. And today we are learning more about the suspects there, those gunmen. CNN's Phil Black is in that capital city of Tunis where officials say at least two of the suspected gunmen trained in camps in nearby Libya.

Phil, what do you know?

[14:04:58] PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the government says the two gunmen crossed into Libya, were trained in a camp somewhere near Benghazi. The concern here, of course, is ISIS because that's territory that ISIS is known to have camps. The idea that elements from ISIS could now continue to threat the stability, the political stability of this country in an ongoing way is very much a concern.

We've been inside some of the hospitals here in Tunis and seen how hard, how frantically medical and administrative staff are working to treat the wounded. They were initially inundated. They're working through them, treating them, giving them the best possible treatment and getting them out the door as quickly as they can and then working with local diplomatic staff to get them on their flights back to homelands as quickly as possible. That process is ongoing. Largely depends upon just how well a lot of these patients are.

The other process that is underway are the bodies. Those who didn't survive the attack. In the morgue earlier today we were told that there were still some 15 bodies that are being held there. Some of which still haven't been identified. And again, it is a matter of the medical staff at these hospitals, at the morgue, working with local diplomatic missions to identify them and get them home on specially organized flights. They hope to have all of this done in the next few days. It's a big job but it has been somewhat slow going in these initial days after the attack.

BALDWIN: I've got CNN's Fareed Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

And I want to begin with what we've been watching, the bloodshed at these mosques in Sanaa, the capital of Yemen. And we've seen thus far that ISIS has actually stepping forward and claimed responsibility, which I think is significant too because this is home turf of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. So what do you - what do you make of that revelation, first and foremost?

FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, CNN'S "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": If it is, in fact, an ISIS operation by which in some way commanded, directed, funded, trained, it's significant because what it suggests is the collapse of AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula, which used to be, as you said, quite, quite strong in Yemen.

BALDWIN: Right.

ZAKARIA: Al Awlaki, if you'll remember, that was the guy who we - the United States killed in the drone attack, was one of the - the leading (INAUDIBLE). So it suggests that ISIS has found a way to expand into an area where al Qaeda was once strong.

It's worth pointing out, Yemen is a complete, you know, bad lands, free-for-all, chaotic place. It probably says more about the weakness of al Qaeda than the strength of ISIS.

BALDWIN: Because we talked before about the sense of competition potentially between these two different groups. Is that part of what we're seeing playing out here potentially?

ZAKARIA: Entirely. And I think we have to understand, these are like two companies battling for market share.

BALDWIN: It's incredible.

ZAKARIA: When ISIS has a successful attack, it gets recruits. It gets money. It gets media attention, which drives more recruits and money. So this is high stakes game for both sides. So it's not, you know, it's not a random thing that they just want to claim that they are associated with this. It helps them a lot. The question is, are they really behind it?

BALDWIN: Right. Again, claims in a different part of the world, not too far away in northern Africa, in Tunisia, we saw these gunmen in this museum massacre from a couple days ago. We know that some of these gunmen reportedly were trained in Libya. We know that, again, just claims, the audio statement of ISIS claiming responsibility for what happened in Tunisia. My question to you would be, would these militants, who carried this out, is this ISIS core? Are these individuals who came over to northern Africa from Syria from Iraq, or are these people who are just claiming that they have allegiance?

ZAKARIA: It's a great question and it's actually a complicated one. So I think it's highly unlikely that this is ISIS directed from a central command. They sent out operatives the way we think of, you know, the Soviet Intelligence Agency or Mossad or the CIA.

BALDWIN: Sure.

ZAKARIA: That's highly unlikely. What's more likely is these are local terrorists, local jihadis, who also want some attention and it's much more sexy, it's much - it gets you a lot more attention if you say you're part of ISIS rather than some random jihadi in Tunisia. But that is the strength of ISIS that everybody now wants to affiliate with it. Everyone now wants to associate themselves with it. They have become the big boys that every random stray jihadi wants to be part of. So even though it's not a sign that they have this massive international operation, it is a sign that their brand has become very appealing, to put it in business terms.

BALDWIN: And then so many people want a piece of the brand, whether they are ISIS core or not.

Let me pivot just quickly to General David Petraeus, who commanded troops in Iraq during the '07-'08 surge, former CIA chief, and he's now counseling the Obama administration. Was recently in Iraq and he spoke for the first time really in quite broad terms with a writer with "The Washington Post" and he made a couple of points. But the point I wanted to just ask you about, he describes Syria, Fareed, as a geopolitical Chernobyl. Did you read this?

[14:10:00] ZAKARIA: I did. I did.

BALDWIN: What did you make of that?

ZAKARIA: I thought it was a very smart set of comments he made. And I think the point he's making is that Syria has become, you know, this gaping wound in the middle of the Middle East where money, jihadis and regional competition is playing itself out. So the Saudis are funding some people. The Iranians are funding other people. Everybody is getting in to get a piece of the action. And until that stabilizes, this conflict and competition will continue.

Sadly, he doesn't provide any -

BALDWIN: Solutions.

ZAKARIA: Solution as to how you would stabilize Syria because that's part of the problem, which is that -

BALDWIN: Right.

ZAKARIA: There is a -- there is a civil war in Syria and in some ways a 15-sided civil war. And it's not clear who you should support and who you shouldn't support, by which I mean, yes, there are some really bad guys, but is it clear that there are good guys?

BALDWIN: It's not clear.

ZAKARIA: And is it clear that by the United States supporting them they would win? So, if you don't have - you know, part of the problem here with Syria, which always stopped people from saying, let's go in, is, what exactly would you do? He identifies the problem, describes it vividly, but was still stuck in terms of what do you do.

BALDWIN: Right. We'll be talking to that "Washington Post" correspondent, Liz Sly, next hour. Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much.

ZAKARIA: A pleasure.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, as the uproar boils at the University of Virginia over the bloody arrest of this black student, one mother who just lost her son to a shooting by police says it's becoming an epidemic. This is her word. An epidemic in America. Tony Robinson's mother joins me live. Please do not miss this conversation.

Also ahead, the White House says it is reassessing its relationship with Israel. And now President Obama sends a video message directly to the people of Iran. We'll discuss that and the timing of all of this.

Plus, he is the millionaire star of HBO's "The Jinx." He is now behind bars, accused of murder. But could Robert Durst be connected to other cold cases? It is a possibility. Stay right here. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:12] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN.

Two days ago they were protesting against police and now you have these University of Virginia students who are meeting with police leaders to discuss this bloody arrest of UVA junior Martese Johnson. And reportedly the lines to get in this meeting are very long. A campus forum happening at this hour includes representatives of the state's ABC office, that's the Alcohol Beverage Control office. It is the ABC agents who are accused of using excessive force after Johnson was turned away at a bar recently. They were recorded restraining this 22-year-old young man. His blood just streamed down his face. His attorney says Johnson needed 10 stitches. The arrest warrant says Johnson was swearing, intoxicated and was, quote/unquote "belligerent." But Johnson, through his attorney, has given new details of that

night. The attorney says Johnson was approached after he gave his current Illinois zip code to a bar employee that didn't match the zip code that was on his I.D., which was outdated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL WATKINS, ATTORNEY FOR MARTESE JOHNSON: At no time throughout the encounter did Martese present, as has been reported by some in the media, a fake I.D. Nevertheless, Virginia ABC officers who were present on the scene questioned my client about being in possession of false identification. The conversation resulted in my client being thrown to the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Brian Todd is in Charlottesville, Virginia. He's at that UVA forum.

Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have some critical new information filling in some crucial gaps in this story. Information regarding what happened in this incident right before that amateur video was shot early Wednesday morning outside the Trinity Irish Pub here in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Martese Johnson's attorney, Daniel Watkins, told reporters that Johnson approached the bar, that he was turned away, and that the agents from the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Department approached him and asked him for his I.D. Now, contrary to previous reports, Daniel Watkins said Martese Johnson was not carrying a fake I.D., but he did say that when he presented them the I.D. and they looked at it, they asked him to recite his zip code. That he recited a zip code where his mother currently lives, which is a different zip code from the one that was on the identification card.

When they questioned him about that, according to Daniel Watkins, Johnson's attorney, that's when the confrontation grew a little more heated and he was forced to the ground. He said that the agents pinned him to the ground, slammed his head against the bricks and put their knees on his back. And that's when the video picks up and we see some of the more dramatic scenes in that video.

Now, as to the specific accusations that we're hearing from African- Americans here and others that they used excessive force, ABC officials would not comment on that. This case is now the subject of a criminal investigation by the Virginia State Police into the conduct of those ABC agents and ABC says they are cooperating fully in that.

Brian Todd, CNN, Charlottesville, Virginia.

BALDWIN: Brian Todd, thank you very much.

We'll take you back to Charlottesville next hour. Meantime, remember the movie "To Die For." Nicole Kidman played this

role, this woman. Now Pamela Smart, who convinced her teenage lover to kill her husband, is making a big, big request from behind bars. We have that real-life story for you.

Also, is the millionaire star of HBO's "The Jinx" connected to other cold cases? There is now a race to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:53] BALDWIN: It is the real life murder drama that has become a script for more than one Hollywood thriller. This is the case of Pamela Smart. Back in 1991, she was convicted for conspiring to kill her husband. Who murdered him? A young man by the name of Billy Flynn, a 16-year-old student at the high school where Smart worked. He was also her lover. Smart was sentenced to life without parole. Flynn, as well, has spent the last 24 years behind bars, but he was just granted parole and could be set free come June. Smart actually spoke with our affiliate, WMUR, about her punishment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA SMART, SERVING LIFE IN PRISON OF CONSPIRING TO KILL HUSBAND: To me, honestly, I think it's worse than the death penalty. I think forgiveness is a good thing, but why is there no forgiveness for me? I don't think that's fair. And I think that the governor should take a second look at my sentence. And I would hope that she would grant me the mercy and compassion that was extended to them.

BALDWIN (voice-over): Prosecutors maintain that Smart was after her husband's $140,000 life insurance policy. They allege Smart seduced Flynn and then threatened to stop having sex with him unless he killed her husband. According to Flynn, he and a friend ambushed Greg Smart as he arrived home on the evening of May 1, 1990. They disguised the scene as a break-in, killing Greg with a single shot to the head. The details of the killing were like a made for TV movie.

[14:25:20] Just months after the trial, the first ever to be broadcast live, Helen Hunt portrayed Smart in "Murder in New Hampshire."

HELEN HUNT, ACTRESS, "MURDER IN NEW HAMPSHIRE": Who's a jury going to believe? Jr (ph), this 16-year-old kid in the slammer, or me? I'm a teacher.

BALDWIN: Perhaps most famously, Nicole Kidman and Joaquin Phoenix took on a fictionalized version of Smart and Flynn's illicit romance in 1995's film "To Die For."

NICHOLE KIDMAN, ACTRESS, "TO DIE FOR": Did you get the gun?

BALDWIN: And just last year, HBO produced a documentary on the case.

SMART: I have no problem understanding why people hate me because of everything that they've been fed.

BALDWIN: The common thread in the Hollywood and real-life accounts of the case, Smart maintains her innocence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You did not tell -

SMART: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Billy Flynn to murder your husband?

SMART: Absolutely not. I didn't want him to. I didn't ask him to.

BALDWIN: As for Billy Flynn, he pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. His testimony may be what's led to his freedom.

BILLY FLYNN: I did what she wanted me to do or lose everything. (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: That logic is not lost on Smart.

SMART: And I thought about that too, that if I actually had committed this murder and was guilty, that I would probably be released. And because of maintaining my innocence, and I will continue to do so, I've been eternally punished.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Let's go back to the Robert Durst case now. The FBI wants to know if Durst could be linked to other unsolved homicides, other cold cases out there. Durst is the real estate heir and star of this HBO docu-series called "The Jinx," who's just been charged with the 2000 killing of his long-time confidant.

Now, investigators now have asked local authorities in cities where Durst has lived to start looking back in those old files, re-examine those cold cases. Some of those cities are in Vermont, in upstate New York and in California.

Durst is now in Louisiana awaiting extradition back to Los Angeles. Authorities said they put the 71 year old under suicide watch. But today, Durst's attorney said the 71 year old is not a danger to himself. He said his client is a cancer survivor and has been hospitalized for, quote/unquote, "serious medical conditions."

Back to the cold cases here. As for possible links, his attorney says investigators are desperate to pin something, anything on Durst.

So let me bring in criminal profiler Pat Brown.

Pat, welcome back to the show. And, you know, let's just begin with the notion off the bat, is this potentially grasping at straws here or would this be proper protocol?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think the attorney, Brooke, has a point. I mean, I think he's trying to say that, you know, the case isn't that good against Durst and it isn't. I mean there -- it's circumstantial. I think he can get off easily with a jury that can be convinced by a good defense attorney that there's no real proof that says Durst did it. So, yes, I think the FBI would like to find something else with DNA evidence. Something truly to link him physically to a crime, which means they better look at crimes where there's bodies. So, you know, if you're looking at missing persons crimes, unless you know where he would bury a body, what good is it going to be? It's going to be another circumstantial case. So they need DNA.

BALDWIN: If you are a criminal profiler and you are looking at Durst and you are looking at Durst's history, how would you characterize him? What kind of person, what kind of individual, potential killer, would he be?

BROWN: Well, if we look at the three crimes which people think he is linked to, these are what I call situational murders. In other words, if he did them, it was because these people got in his way or were useful - more useful dead than alive. You know, you have the wife situation. You know, something like an ex-wife to get rid of. You have someone who might tell on him. and you have someone whose identity you might want. This is situational. People he knows that he needs dead for a reason. That's different than a serial killer who kills for pleasure.

Now, does that mean that Durst couldn't be a serial killer? Well, he could be because if you can kill three people, if he did it, just because they're in your way, you're a psychopath. If you're a psychopath, you can be a serial killer.

For example, there's a guy named Mike DeBardeleben back in the '70s in Virginia who the police were after for counterfeiting. And when they went into his storage locker to get the counterfeiting evidence, they found evidence that he was killing women and he became - was one of the most prolific serial killers on the East Coast. So, yes, you can do two different kinds of crimes. So we don't know yet. We'll find out whether he's linked to anything else.

BALDWIN: We don't know. And what if this attorney, you know, to your point off the top, you know, his concern is valid and what if, with these cold cases, there are loose links, if anything, nothing really comes to turn as far as really any material concrete evidence, then what? How would that affect or not at all his - this one case here he's tied to moving forward?

[14:30:08] BROWN: Well, I think, first of all, the FBI should do what the FBI is doing. They must do that because -

BALDWIN: You do?

BROWN: Yes, because he might be linked to something and they should try to solve cold cases.