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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Boston Marathon Bombing Trial; More on Mentally Ill Dallas Man Shot by Police; Aaron Hernandez Trial Updated; Colorado Craigslist Killing Examined

Aired March 20, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:05] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: The trail of the surviving Boston marathon accused bomber is not in session today, but what an incredible week.

The jurors got to see for themselves the boat where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was cornered and captured and where he scrolled a message in apparent believe that he was about to be killed. He didn't die.

They are also -- they also had a chance to hear some searing testimony from police officers who engaged both of the Tsarnaev bothers in a virtual street hand to hand combat war just hours before hand. One officer actually so close he was locking eyes with Tamerlan Tsarnaev who was driving a stolen SUV. And moments later the suspects were shooting, throwing bombs and trying to run the police officers down.

One officer gave some unbelievably griping testimony followed by a second and a third have a listen to this he said "I notice one was bigger than the other, and they had different styles when they were throwing the devices. One was throwing like a baseball."

The firefight ended when Dzhokhar run his brother Tamerlan over, effectively killing him.

Here's what another officer said about that "I reached down and I grabbed Tamerlan by the back of the belt and I tried to drag him out of the street so he wouldn't be hit." This is just after they rustle them to the ground.

He was going to say "The black SUV, it was right in my face. I kind of laid back and I felt the wind from the vehicle as it went by." And then he witnessed Tamerlan's body actually being dragged by that SUV driven by Tamerlan's brother who was on trial. I like to go on and on with that unbelievable testimony.

But I want to bring in Milton Valencia his reporter for the Boston Globe he's had a prime seat for this federal trial where no cameras are allowed or for the course in Federal Court. I'm also joined by CNN Legal Analysts Mel Robinson.

So, Milton, if I can begin with you the notion that these officers where so close to this brothers. There's one description where Tamerlan had a gun that maybe without a bullets because he decided to use the gun itself as a weapon and throw at the officer hitting the officer in the arm.

And this is right before Dzhokhar is alleged to have driven right over his brother and killed him. What was Dzhokhar's reaction to that because he hasn't really cared about anybody else's injuries or deaths so far?

MILTON VALENCIA, BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER: Right, right he, you know, the key word for him throughout this trial is he's been somewhat indifferent, you know, kind of insular as he's listened to this testimony. But we know he's paying attention because random times he does take a glanced how to the witness or he'll get animated when we hear some of this audio or video that's played in the courtroom.

And you could tell he's paying attention because there were certain things that store him such as this firefight in Watertown in which his brother was killed and that ultimately leads to his capture.

BANFIELD: And there's also this moment and I know I was just I'm marveled when I see the reaction of defendants and what makes them weepy. Often times it's not the victim dying. But it's something with their on personal life that makes them react.

What was his reaction when he saw himself on the videotape in the convenient store? And I think this is chapter two or so of this string of crimes that after the car jacking, the victim running off and getting away and saving himself it was like he was staring at himself on the videotape. What did you see there?

VALENCIA: Right that's -- your right that's a part two right after the car jacking right before this police manhunt and firefight in Watertown. And he has this monitor right in front of them that's depicting so much and including him in the car jacking victim escaping from the gas station while we have Dzhokhar in the grocery store -- in the gas station shopping for Doritos and Redbull.

And he just seems animated when he sees himself on the video monitor or again when he hears the police officers shouting into their radios, you know, we need help officer down.

He does get animated it's almost that he's been trained to ignore the testimony of witnesses. But when he hear a little bit of live action in the courtroom you can see him staring get a little bit he's paying attention.

BANFIELD: So I want to bring Mel Robbins to the conversation, if I can Milton. Mel you're from Boston, I mean everyone is following every moment of this story in Boston. And aren't a lot of people asking the same question why do we have to go through all of this? What is there to prove he said he did it can't we just skip to the death phase?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYSTS: Well its not that simple first of all, they entered a plea of not guilty which they did so that they could preserve their right to appeal the case.

Secondly, even though the defense council has admitted during opening statements, "Hey did it," the prosecution still has the burden of proof. And even though this is the first phase Ashleigh and we've talked a lot about the second phase the death penalty phase. This is the death penalty phase.

[12:35:01] And what the prosecution wants to do is to put on an extraordinarily emotional detailed case that has jurors marinate on the fact that this was a terrorist act that was planned, that was executed, they're going to see him seating in court not reacting to anything. And then you'll see this phase be brought back in the sentencing phase when both sides argue what the proper penalty should be.

BANFIELD: And aren't we -- I'm just trying to do the math quickly somewhere within a month or about a month away from the actual start of this year's Boston marathon?

ROBBINS: Yeah it's pretty weird timing actually April 20th is when we're going to be running at the Boston Marathon again you can see racers out training every single weekend along the road. And we originally thought this was going to be a case that would last until June. But the defenses strategy is admit that he did it seat, don't cross examine really any of the witnesses to this thing.

They've done some serious cross examination of some of the agents. But then we'll -- we're going to wrap I think next week. And we could see a sentence in this case right around the running of the race.

BANFIELD: I can't imagine that that timing and how effective that will be for jurors who are still walking by newspaper boxes no matter what.

Mel Robbins, thank you for that and also Milton Valencia thank you very much for your perspective as well and the color commentary of that courtroom without cameras that it's critical. Thank you both I appreciate it.

Coming up next, the 911 call that lead the Dallas police to shooting and killing a mentally ill man who was armed with a screwdriver. Did he have to die? We're going to talk about how it might have been handled differently by a person who knows best, someone who's in the business of how to handle the mentally ill when police are involved.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: CNN has obtained the 911 call that led two Dallas police officers to a shooting and killing a mentally ill man last June. And on the recording you can hear that victim Jason Harrison mother ask the 911 operator to please sent trained police officers to help take her son to the hospital. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:23] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your emergency?

SHIRLEY MARSHALL HARRISON, JASON HARRISON'S MOTHER: Yeah, he is my son if you take him to (inaudible) bipolar schizophrenic. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what's the address?

HARRISON: (Inaudible) probably (inaudible) trained (inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah (inaudible).

HARRISON: I think he's (inaudible) incoherent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

HARISSON: Incoherent. And I go out of town seeing with my mother and I've come back and (inaudible) I can't get him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, what's his name?

HARRISON: (Inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's his name? OK, any weapons? Anybody hurt?

HARRISON: No, but he was talking about chopping people up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: He's talking about chopping people up. And now I want to show you what happen when the police did arrived and I do have to warn you that the police body cam video we're about to show you is certainly graphic and without question disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello what's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey gentlemen what's going on?

HARRISON: He is off the chain, you can hear him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's that?

HARRISON: Going to chopping those people in (inaudible) bipolar schizo.

JASON HARRISON: What's going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You drop that, you drop that, oh my god.

HARRISON: Jay.

JASON HARRISON: Drop it.

HARRISON: Jay, Jay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop it.

HARRISON: Oh you kill my child, oh you kill my child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said drop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The body cam did not stop recording. And now I want to show you a clip from shortly after the shooting occurred and you can hear EMT's who arrived on the scene talking about how they knew this victim from a previous call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of weeks have gone along. And we knew with just a matter of time talking else went down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet another floor?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Yeah. Him, he was threatening his mom and his brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has a knife, his brother had a gun, just a couple of weeks ago. They took him to (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know, we're leaving (inaudible), I mean his brother said this happened several times. He said it's just a matter of time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now to talk about the appropriate way for police to handle a call involving a mentally ill person perhaps like this scenario is Kristen Roman, she's the Mental Health Liaison Officer for the Madison Wisconsin Police Department. And she's part of the unit that focuses just on calls involving mentally ill people. Kristen, thank you so much, captain its just great to have you on the program in the wake of our coverage of this story.

When you see that tape and granted you were not there, you're only previewed to this tape. Is there anything that stands out in your mind either in defense of the officers or in defense of the victim?

KRISTEN ROMAN, MENTAL HEALTH LIAISON OFFICER: Well Ashleigh police respond everyday. And sometimes several times a day to individuals and families in crisis due to a mental illness. And, you know, too often we see these interactions end in tragedy like this.

And what we do in the Madison Police Department is try to work very proactively on these issues through our mental health liaison officers and now our full time mental health officers to reach out to people like Jason and his mother prior to any crisis situation arising.

BANFIELD: So yesterday on the program captain we had a police trainer who said he would use this as an example to teach what to do, meaning that this was a textbook case that the officers performed perfectly saying that they we're within something called the hula hoop they had no egress the man was holding a screwdriver they say that they were launched that. Do you see this as a textbook case of how to handle a call that was clearly about a mentally ill person?

ROMAN: Well I think that the comments that were provided were very much focused on a tactical sort of response. And what we try to train our officers to think about are the ways on which we can engage with people on a more personal level. So, some of the things that we encourage officers to do with individuals that they know might be challenged by a mental illness or some issue is to sort of begin the conversation very much on a personal level on a first name basis and to try to establish that rapport as early on as possible in the encounter with somebody.

[12:45:01] BANFIELD: So, one thing I noticed that and I've watch this tape so many times. And I'm just now hearing something I haven't heard before when the mother comes out of the doorway she says three things his off his chain, his bipolar schizo and his talking about chopping people up.

I had not heard that one before. So, I'm try to look at from the police officer's perspective who had seconds to react to a man who is talking about chopping people a lot and now his holding a sharp dangerous -- potentially dangerous weapon a screwdriver. How much would change this whole notion that you say you got to be bale to engage and have a conversation when it might just be seconds where no engagement could be possible?

ROMAN: Well I think context is really everything and certainly if officers have a background or a knowledge about somebody that they're interacting with and as I said earlier one of the things we try to do is establish a relationship with people -- with mental illness and their families before a crisis occurs.

And so the hope in doing that is that we would have that rapport already established and would probably have a broader context within which to consider the circumstances of any particular day.

So for instance if the officer's had known about the history and had previous context with Jason or his mother there could have been a connection made right upon contact one of the officers perhaps contacting the mother and the other maybe addressing Jason individually. And they would probably have a better understanding of the likelihood or the potential for a real threat.

BANFIELD: This is stuff.

ROMAN: Based on previous interactions.

BANFIELD: Yeah, this is stuff because apparently according to an affidavit they had respond according to the family they had responded to this house over a 100 times.

Captain Roman, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us I appreciate your work and thank you for your service.

ROMAN: Thank you my pleasure.

BANFIELD: Coming up next. How does a video of dirty dancing become key evidence in a murder trail? It seems anything goes in the Aaron Hernandez case and by the way it is not as Beyonce with whom his dirty dancing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:50:53] BANFIELD: So we are now past the 100 witness mark in Aaron Hernandez murder trial, and we have certainly seen our fair share of uncomfortable moments, and that's putting pretty lightly, like this one. You have to kind of squint but what you're basically seeing here and you're seeing it clearer if you're a juror is the former NFL star getting the bump and grind treatment at a night club.