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TSA Agent Attacked by Man with Machete; Yemen Developments; Kerry in Talks with Iran; What Happened to Robert Durst's Wife?; DOJ: Michael Brown's Hands Not Up. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired March 21, 2015 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Four o'clock Eastern, you're the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

We begin with dramatic new details about a man who attacked a TSA agent with a machete at the New Orleans Airport before he was shot by police. Our Shasta Darlington is with me now with the details. It is incredible to see. Because what we heard last hour is first of all just to highlight, the courage of one woman of this TSA agent who this man tried to attack with what officials described as a huge machete. I want to listen to hear and let our viewers hear what she had to say and then we'll talk more about the details you learned. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what I have to say is, TSA spends a lot of time having us trained. And we train and train, unbeknownst to a lot of people. So we are trained to how to react to different situations. When this all started happening, coming down, it was second nature. We want to make sure that the passengers are safe.

So we tell them, run, run, you got to get out of here. Run. And with that we know they're leaving. And we know that we're counting on the (INAUDIBLE) they're the ones with the weapon to be able to protect us. I have to say Officer Sleeve is my hero. She saved my life. The man was within inches of whacking me with a machete and she did save my life. And saved probably a lot of others. Not to mention a lot of injuries.

What I saw originally was one of the officers getting sprayed with the wasp spray. He took a bag and threw it at the guy, which slowed him down enough that when he came through and I was yelling for everybody to clear the checkpoint and then we all took off and ran towards where the Leo was. And I was calling run, run, for them to get away from him. And I was calling for the leo so she was there and alert. And she just - she saved a lot of people's lives.

This man was swinging very hard, very hard with that machete. If he would have made contact with anybody it would have been terrible. And I just feel like our job as TSA is to protect the passengers, and I'm proud to say they were protected.

I didn't hear him say anything. I just looked over my shoulder. Once I yelled for the checkpoint to be cleared, I looked over my shoulder and he was coming after me. And I ran as fast as I could. And thank god, you know, the officer was as close as she was. Because I wouldn't be here today.

Yes, I did.

Oh, it's fine. The bullet went through here and here. I was fortunate it went through the tricep but it didn't hit any tendons, didn't hit the bone. I'll be fine. I'll be fine.

I did. I did. I thought originally I thought the machete hit me. I didn't realize it was a bullet. I did not realize it was a bullet until I got to the hospital. Because I do better not looking at an injury?

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so I knew he was close. So I honestly thought he hit me and then she shot him. And once I got to the hospital I saw the two holes and the two holes in my shirt. And all I could say is, thank god she was there. Like I said, she is my hero. And I want to say, I also want to thank my TSA family, my screening manager was up there immediately. And when I went to the hospital he made sure somebody came there.

[16:05:01] One of my dear friends was there with me to get me home. Another friend who was in Arkansas got a call from somebody here, and she sent her husband there to the hospital to make sure I was OK. We've got a very tight-knit group and a very great group. A lot of support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Wow. What a hero. Shasta Darlington has been covering this story, joins me now. Amazing that she is in such good spirits after what she went through last night.

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. She had the presence of mind when this man with a machete is chasing after her to shout "run run" and also that detail that another TSA agent threw a piece of luggage at him and slowed him down. I mean these are people who have been trained. Although they aren't armed are clearly carrying out the training.

HARLOW: Also what we learned in the last hour is that this man, mentally disturbed, was clearly plotting something bigger because of what they found in his car.

DARLINGTON: That's right. We've got some interesting details from the sheriff. On the one hand, Richard White is unconscious so they haven't been able to interview him. They believe that he acted alone, that he's mentally unstable. The family has been cooperating. They got more details out of the car which they quickly isolated after the attack. Listen to what the sheriff said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF NEWELL NORMAND, JEFFERSON PARISH, LOUISIANA: Six half-pint mason jars with cloth wicks into a liquid that we now know to be gasoline, which you would commonly refer to as a Molotov cocktail. He had a barbecue lighter in the bag. He also had a letter opener, plastic, and there was some crushed powdery material found near his body with green fuses or wicks, which we've determined preliminarily at this point in time to be smoke bombs that had been crushed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DARLINGTON: What we see is, yes, he was planning this for awhile. But also that he had the material to really inflict much greater damage, Poppy.

HARLOW: And luckily he didn't. I know that they said that the suspect is unconscious, but they're hoping that he will recover also because they want to talk to him and find out more details. Do they have any inclination of what could have motivated this?

DARLINGTON: What we've seen from reporting is that neighbors and friends are talking about what a mild-mannered person he was. Obviously they're getting more details from the family. We heard the sheriff saying that the family is being absolutely cooperative, so cooperative that he's welcomed them to visit Richard White at the hospital and maybe - maybe if the police can't get something out of him the family can, Poppy.

HARLOW: This brings up a really important question. That is should TSA agents be armed. This isn't the first time, right? 2013, November, TSA agent attacked and killed in Los Angeles.

DARLINGTON: Exactly. Exactly. I think it's a question that we should all be asking.

HARLOW: Yes, absolutely. And I think a job that is often thankless. So we should all thank our TSA agents today especially. Thank you so much, Shasta Darlington. We appreciate it.

Coming up next we're going to switch gears, we're going to talk about what looks like progress in the negotiation, between the United States and Iran to reach a nuclear deal by the deadline at the end of the month. That's next.

[16:10:00]

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HARLOW: Dramatic developments in Yemen today involving U.S. troops there. The military now withdrawing all U.S. special forces from Yemen because of security concerns. Navy S.E.A.L.S and members of the Army's Delta Force were the last American troops to be stationed there. They had been working with Yemen's government to go after Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. Well, the security situation has been deteriorating for weeks. The U.S. embassy as you know recently closed there in the capital of Sanaa after rebels took over the capital last month. And then this week hundreds of Al Qaeda members escaped two prisons in Yemen raising even more concerns. ISIS militants claimed responsibility for bombings at two mosques in Yemen Friday, killing more than 130 people.

This marks the first large-scale ISIS attack in Yemen. ISIS is calling that attack on those mosques yesterday just the tip of the iceberg. We don't know for sure if this was actually carried out by ISIS or if they're just claiming responsibility. But CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank tells us what may have been the motivating factor here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: ISIS in Yemen have only ever claimed responsibility for one other attack in the country. That was earlier this month. They're very fledgling group within Yemen. But whoever did this, this was very calculated. I think the strategy was the same with that attack on the Golden Mosque in Samarra, Iraq in February 2006 by (INAUDIBLE) Al Zakawi, an Al Qaeda in Iraq, which is to try and provoke the Shia to have a kind of overreaction, go off the Sunnis and really drive the Sunnis into the arms of Al Qaeda.

HARLOW: And a dire warning from France.

CRUICKSHANK: Dire warning from the French prime minister saying Europe faces an unprecedented terrorist threat. It's not a matter of if they're going to be more terrorist attacks but when there are going to be more terrorist attacks. European officials telling me that ISIS are planning attacks in Europe right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right. Well, from the situation in Yemen to the talks over Iran's nuclear ambitions, U.S. Secretary of state John Kerry in London today consulting with five other world powers included in these negotiations. Earlier today Kerry sounded cautiously optimistic, frankly, that a deal could be struck by the end of the month. That key deadline.

Erin McPike joins me from the White House with the latest. So he's in London. I know he's talking to his counterparts in Germany and France, from the U.K., do we know when these talks in Loussane, Switzerland with Iran are going to resume?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, yes. And Secretary Kerry is actually coming back to Washington for the next three days for some business here. And then he will be returning to Loussanne, Switzerland for some more talks. They have about a week left then for those talks to yield any progress. Now Secretary Kerry made a statement earlier today, and he laid out where things stand. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: We are not rushing. This has been a 2 1/2 year or more process. But we recognize that fundamental decisions have to be made now, and they don't get any easier as time goes by. It is time to make hard decisions. We want the right deal that would make the world, including the United States and our closest allies and partners, safer and more secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCPIKE: Now, after being briefed by Secretary Kerry, the British foreign minister Philip Hammond just put out - just made a very brief statement.

[16:15:00] HARLOW: I want to read a little bit part of that to you because it is important. He said "we agreed that substantial progress has been made in some areas, but there are other areas where we do not have agreement. And the time has come now for Iran in particular to make some very tough decisions if we are going to see progress made."

And Poppy, that is very important. Because Iran's foreign minister has also been saying that they're making progress but he took to twitter on Friday and said it's time for the U.S. and its allies to choose between pressure and agreement. That's very important because obviously Iran wants to see the U.S. and its allies capitulate some, too. There are some gaps as President Obama has been saying for months throughout this process. These gaps do remain. They only have 10 days to work them out to reach some sort of framework for a deal, Poppy.

HARLOW: Right. The gaps on the number of centrifuges allowed but also gaps on when the tough, tough sanctions on Iran might be lifted if they can reach an agreement. Erin, thank you very much.

Coming up next, how does an attorney defend the admitted Boston marathon bomber? It is a question I will put to our legal experts, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Prosecutors in the Boston Marathon bombing trial could wrap up their case against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as early as next week. The jury has already seen the blood-splattered boat where Tsarnaev was cornered and captured and where he scrawled a message in the apparent belief that he would be killed.

Also shown in court this week, dramatic images of one of the home-made bombs that Tsarnaev allegedly threw at police during that gun fight in Watertown, Massachusetts. The fire fight ended when Tsarnaev jumped in a car and ran over his older brother to get away. Our Alexandra Field was in court all week. She has more on the chilling testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): What happened that night in Watertown? For the first time jurors in the Dzhokhar Tsarnaev trial heard testimony from the officers involved in the shootout with the Tsarnaev brothers. One witness testifying that he recalls both brothers being involved, both of them hurling homemade explosives, and recalling that they have distinctly different styles of throwing those devices.

The jurors saw pictures of a pressure cooker bomb embedded in the side of someone's car in the courtroom. They were also able to inspect other homemade explosives that never detonated. Two pipe bombs and a Tupperware bomb, a container that had been filled with explosive powder and fuses.

Also for the first time, the jury and the defendant left the federal courthouse in Boston, taking a field trip to examine the boat where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was found hiding. After taking a look at that boat they also took a look at railing where he had etched a message "Stop killing our innocent people and we will stop."

David Hanniberry was called to the witness stand. He's the man who found Tsarnaev. He said that he noticed a gap in the shrink wrap that had been covering his boat. When he went outside he says he saw what he called the body and that there was a lot of blood. Along with all the physical evidence, jurors also heard about the digital investigation, the search for files on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's iPod, his cell phones, thumb drives, hard drives and his laptop.

One witness testified about combing through those files and finding copies of "Inspire." That's the recruiting magazine for Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. It includes an article on how to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom. When the trial resumes on Monday, jurors will hear more about that digital investigation.

In Boston, Alexandra Field, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Alex, thank you very much for that. Well, this trial once expected to take months has been moving very quickly. The defense opting not to question a lot of the witnesses. Let's talk about it all with our legal analyst, criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and defense attorney and former prosecutor Paul Callan. Thank you guys for being here.

Let's get right to it. I don't know. What do you make, Danny, first of the strategy for the defense not to question? Not to cross-examine many of these witnesses?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Consider who many of these witnesses are. At least in the early days, these were victims. So there really wasn't any upside to questioning people. You have to understand the drama that has been unfolding in that court. People who were horribly disfigured being wheeled up in wheelchairs with their service dogs up to the stand. Those are not witnesses that you score any points as a defense attorney or strategically by asking them any questions.

HARLOW: It looks bad to the jury.

CEVALLOS: None whatsoever. Your answer should be no questions when the witness is tendered to you with those witnesses. Now we're getting into more of the techie side. And they're introducing a lot of evidence of tweets, of computer stuff. And in federal cases, that can be very tedious because you need to authenticate those records. It takes a long time. But yes, for the most part when it comes to those witnesses, the ones that were injured, there is no real reason to question them on cross.

HARLOW: Paul, why have the first phase of this trial or that you have to? Because in the opening statement, the defense said their client, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, admits to participating in this horrific bombing.

PAUL CALLAN, SENIOR TRIAL COUNSEL, CALLAN LEGAL: You know, Poppy, I think that's a question a lot of people are asking. They all been saying "hey, my client's guilty. But of having done this horrible thing, but he did it because his brother dominated him so don't put him to death." That's really what they're arguing ultimately.

But in death penalty cases, we almost always have a jury trial in both the guilt and innocence phase and the sentencing phase. The reason for that is, a defendant's not going to plead guilty in the guilt phase because there may be things that will come out as the prosecutor develops the evidence showing that the older brother was more dominant. And you've seen this in some of the cross.

As Danny was just saying, there was no upside, no percentage in questioning a victim. However, when the issue comes up as to who fired a shot, who threw a bomb, who planned this thing, you're noticing then cross-examination occurs because they're building this theme that this is a young man, he's only 18 years old, utterly dominated by an older brother. And therefore should be spared the death penalty.

HARLOW: Danny, the goal of the defense here is to keep their client alive. It's a federal case. He could get the death penalty. They want that not to happen. However, would it be effective for them at all to put Tsarnaev on the stand?

[16:25:01] CEVALLOS: That is an agonizing decision for every criminal defense attorney. Because there are many times where you think this might be the instance I can put him on the stand, maybe I can get an acquittal. Because, you know, jurors also want to hear from the defendant.

HARLOW: They try to humanize him.

CEVALLOS: Yes. This is not one of those cases. He's young. He will be no match for the U.S. attorney. They've undoubtedly prepared for that contingency. It would not be a good idea. I don't think the jury would be engendered with any sympathy if this defendant testified. You have to weigh the risk, weigh the upsides on the defense side and ask yourself what is there to gain? But more importantly what could I potentially lose?

CALLAN: You know, Danny, I think this is the most fascinating question we're coming up on. Will he testify? There's one reason he could wind up on the stand. And that is if he is this dedicated Islamist soldier, in favor of with this horrible ideology, why wouldn't he tell his story?

HARLOW: It's interesting you bring that up.

CEVALLOS: Interesting theory.

HARLOW: He did write "I'm jealous of my brother who has received the reward" he said "the highest level of paradise in Shalah before me. I do not mourn because his spirit is very alive." (INAUDIBLE) to talk about that.

CALLAN: You know, what defense attorneys are going to argue, at the end of this case they're going to say give him life in prison because you know, what he really wants? Death? Because that would be the ultimate martyrdom for him.

HARLOW: The bar association in Massachusetts and that's a state where you don't have the death penalty, this federal case, has made it very clear they do not want this to be a death penalty sentence. Does that impact anything whatsoever?

CEVALLOS: The bar - the state bar association affect the Department of Justice's decision to seek the death penalty. Zero. It goes back to principles of federalism. The federal government as a general rule really doesn't care what the state is asking it to do. And that's been that way since we wrote the constitution.

HARLOW: And you think it would impact the jury at all?

CEVALLOS: The jury shouldn't know about it. They should never know what the state bar of Massachusetts is saying about death penalty or no death penalty. If they're not on the internet and doing what they're not supposed to do, the jurors shouldn't know anything about that. I mean certainly significant from a moral perspective that the bar association feels that way but believe me neither the bar association or any other state agency or sometimes even other federal agencies had any effect on the Department of Justice's mission.

CALLAN: What most people don't know also is a bar association, it's just a private club of lawyers. It's not an official government agency. It's just - if you don't pay your dues you're not a member.

CEVALLOS: (INAUDIBLE) I didn't say that.

CALLAN: So you're not a member.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: We have to get a quick break in, we're going to talk about another fascinating troubling case. The case of Robert Durst, the millionaire suspected in potentially numerous murders being held in prison in New Orleans right now. Talk about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:51] HARLOW: A new twist in the case of Robert Durst, the millionaire murder suspect charged with the 2000 murder of a long-time friend. The FBI now wants police in towns where he once lived to study cold cases, to see if the eccentric real estate heir could be linked to any other unsolved crimes.

Our Jean Casarez has been on the story all week and reports on the original mystery that put Durst under the microscope the disappearance of his first wife.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kathie McCormick and Robert Durst were married in the early '70s. Friends say they started out as any young couple in love, but coming from totally different worlds. He, the son of the Durst family New York real-estate dynasty. She, a young woman with ambitions of her own, pursuing a medical degree.

But according to Kathie's close friend, Ellen Strauss, as time went on, things changed dramatically.

ELLEN STRAUSS, FRIEND OF KATHIE: From the beginning, it was Prince Charming and Cinderella. Time went by, I would say that it became more and more violent. When I was in law school and she was in medical school, I had call forward to my -- where I was, and she would call me late at night, for hours, about his violence.

CASAREZ: Kathie wrote in her diary about her abusive marriage. Friends told her to leave him.

STRAUSS: I used to say, "Leave, get out. The guy's crazy; he talks to himself. Leave."

CASAREZ: But she stayed.

In the HBO documentary "The Jinx," friends say Kathie believed her life was in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said to me, "Gilberta, promise me if something happens, you'll check it out. I'm afraid of Bobby." And I just said, "Kathie, of course."

CASAREZ: Then, in January of 1982, Kathie disappears. But Durst doesn't report it for four days. He later claimed he last saw her when leaving her at a train station to return to New York City from medical school. Her friends and family were devastated.

JIM MCCORMACK, BROTHER OF KATHIE: You're angry that, you know, that this can't be happening. You're basically at disbelief. Kathie had a heart of gold. She loved Bob. She absolutely loved him at the very beginning. He was good to her. I believe he loved her.

CASAREZ: Law enforcement had very few leads.

MIKE STRUK, RET. NYPD HOMICIDE DET.: We never found her body. We never -- we didn't have a crime scene. She could have met her demise in New York, upstate New York or Jersey or any place.

CASAREZ: Missing person posters went up. But time went on, and no Kathie. Meanwhile, friends and family were watching Robert Durst and believed

something just didn't seem right.

STRAUSS: I went through his garbage. And I found that he was throwing her things out right away, within five weeks, at least, of her disappearance. He knew she wasn't coming back.

CASAREZ: Durst was questioned but never charged.

The investigation into Kathie's disappearance was reopened in 2000 by New York authorities. Coincidental or not, Durst moved to Galveston, Texas, in November of that year, taking residency under a false name, and at times wearing a wig, posing as a woman.

One month later, investigators were set to interview Durst' long-time confidante, Susan Berman, in Los Angeles about Kathie's disappearance. But before they could, she as found dead in her home, shot execution style with a bullet to the head. Whatever Berman knew about Kathie's death would go with her to her grave. And a family that needed those answers were left with none.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Jean Casarez reporting there.

I want to bring back in our legal panel to talk about this, criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos, and also with us, defense attorney and former prosecutor, Paul Callan.

Thank you both for being here. Let's talk about what has just happened. This is yesterday, Durst's attorney filed this motion claiming that his client was illegally arrested this week for the murder of his friend, and there's no probable cause to hold him. He's being held on drug charges and weapons charges because they found pot and a gun on him.

So, does the attorney have any merit in this claim, Paul?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No. It's kind of ridiculous in the end, because -- I don't know all the details about the gun and the marijuana charge. But I do know this. The state of California has issued a warrant for his arrest on a murder charge.

[16:35:01] And on the murder charge, we have the admission which I know we'll talk about later that he made on tape that possibly he was involved in the killing.

HARLOW: Right.

CALLAN: And he's linked to a letter called the cadaver letter, which could only have been written by the murder. So that it seems to me would be probable cause to believe he's involved in the murder.

HARLOW: So, you bring up this sound. I want to roll for our viewers what you're talking about. This comes from an HBO documentary about Durst called "The Jinx." HBO is owned by our parent company, Time Warner. But this is a critical moment in "The Jinx," where you heard Durst mumbling what frankly sounds like a confession. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT DURST: What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Killed them all, of course.

So, Danny, the question becomes would something like this be admissible in court?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We need to put this issue to bed, because I've seen a lot of dispute over this issue. And it's this -- yes, it's true that confessions that are involuntary can be excluded under the 14th Amendment due process clause, but only when they are the product of police or law enforcement activity.

Voluntariness is not an issue when you voluntarily speak to a private person and specifically in this case a journalist. So that will not be suppressed. That will come in as an admission. It will be a part of the evidence in the case against him. And the jury will be allowed to figure it out to.

To the extent they argue that, hey, he was just murmuring to himself.

HARLOW: Right.

CEVALLOS: He was sort of addled. He didn't really know what he was saying. Well, that will be an issue for the jury to review and consider, and apply their own common sense to.

HARLOW: But, Paul, so you would expect the defense then, since this will clearly be admissible to say -- well, you know, the custody argument the chain of custody in terms of this tape, right? Who did it go through? Editing possibly, et cetera, right?

CALLAN: Yes. They'll argue that. They'll take a shot. There'll be a preliminary hearing. They'll make another argument. They'll say the tape's not reliable. But they'll also say, you know, HBO was working closely with the cops in preparing this documentary. So, HBO became an agent of the police.

You remember as Danny says, if the government's involved the 14th Amendment of the Constitution protects you. If it's strictly private, you have no protection. So that's the argument that will be made.

The stronger argument, though, in the end that they'll make is that that statement is a vague statement. You notice he doesn't say I killed Berman. He says, I killed them all.

And I'll just throw one weird thing onto the table for you. His brother says that he murdered seven Alaskan huskies in preparation for the murder of his first wife.

HARLOW: Wow! CALLAN: So, it's a weird kind of defense. Maybe he was referring to

the dogs as opposed to the murder of Berman. So, they're going to say it's an imprecise, vague statement not sufficient to support a murder prosecution.

HARLOW: Danny, what do you make of the fact that his attorney is really coming out and blasting the FBI for telling law enforcement agencies in states where he previously lived to look at cold cases? This is a guy who admitted to a murder of his neighbor in Texas but said it was in self-defense and got acquitted.

CEVALLOS: Well, an attorney often takes the role in spokesperson. That's exactly what he's doing. You know, defense attorneys are often faced with a difficult decision, because the prosecution often gets out ahead of the media. They release statements. The FBI often posts things on their web site when they indict somebody and put that information out there.

So, defense attorneys in light of modern media are faced with sort of a Hobson's choice. I mean, the safe thing to do is to keep quiet, but sometimes they have to get out in front of an issue and make statements like that. So, he's going on the attack and he is trying to diffuse some of the bad press that his client has gotten, including talking about the -- his allegedly illegal, no probable cause arrest warrant.

HARLOW: Well, see, there's supposed to be a hearing on Monday. We'll see if he is sent to Los Angeles for that or not.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate it very much.

Coming up next, we're going to talk about the continuing debate over "hands up, don't shoot". You'll remember what the Justice Department report said about that in the aftermath of Ferguson. We'll discuss it in a broader context, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:49] HARLOW: "Hands up, don't shoot" -- it was the rallying cry heard and seen around the country in the wake of the Michael Brown shooting. But the U.S. Department of Justice says that is not what happened before a Ferguson police officer shot and killed Brown last year.

Our Sara Sidner explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the mantra of a movement, started in Ferguson, Missouri after the shooting of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson.

"Hands up, don't shoot" spread across America like wildfire; from Ferguson to New York to Los Angeles, to the halls of Congress, to the NFL football field; even CNN contributors throwing up their hands.

There is only one problem --

DAVID KLINGER, ASSOC. PROFESSOR OF CRIMINOLOGY: It is no good. It is not true. It is either based on a lie or based on a misinterpretation of what happened.

SIDNER: Federal and local authorities say the evidence shows "hands up, don't shoot" didn't happen.

The final Department of Justice report concludes Michael Brown's hands were not up in surrender when he was shot and killed by Officer Wilson.

So, where did it come from? Brown's friend the day of the shooting.

DORIAN JOHNSON, WITNESS AND BROWN'S FRIEND: His weapon was already drawn when he got out of the car. He shot again and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and he put his hands in the air and he started to get down but the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and he fired several more shots.

SIDNER: Federal and local authorities say he's wrong, but there are still plenty in the protest movement who are convinced Brown had his hands up.

But few have read the nearly 100 page report; we did.

Here's what the witnesses closest to the incident, who spoke to federal investigators and the grand jury, say.

Witness 102, a bi-racial male: "For sure, that Brown's hands were not above his head."

Witness 103, a black male, reluctant to meet with FBI agents stating "snitches get stitches," eventually did talk. He had one of the best views of the shooting, and says he did not see Brown's hands up and witnessed Brown "moving fast" towards Wilson.

Witness 104, a bi-racial female with a clear view of the scene says she heard the shots fired inside Wilson's car that hit Brown in the hand.

[16:45:04] She then saw Wilson hop out of the car and yell: "Stop, stop, stop". Brown ran, then turned around and, "for a second", began to raise his hands as though he considered surrendering, but then quickly "balled up his fists" and "charged" at Wilson.

In a stunning admission, she told investigators Wilson waited a long time to fire his gun, adding she "would have fired sooner".

Witness 105, a 50-year-old black female, says she noticed Brown put his hands up for a brief moment but then turned around 'made a shuffling movement' and put his hands down "in a running position" and ran towards Wilson.

Most of this not made public until long after the shooting, and that was too late to silence the slogan. TEF POE, CO-FOUNDER, HANDS UP UNIFIED: I deal with other witnesses also say his hands were up. But you know, on some level, that's still minutia because we're debating whether or not his hands were up, but we're not debating whether he was dead or alive. We know for a fact that he's dead. Whether his hands were up or not, he's not here and he didn't have a weapon.

SIDNER (on camera): But the argument is, is he wasn't surrendering then there's a justification.

POE: To me that's a repetitive tactic that's been used against black males in dealing with the police for the longest. You can root back to slavery with that tactic. You have to find a way to villainize the victim and find, you know, the smallest means why this officer had to use deadly force.

SIDNER (voice-over): The report shows Officer Wilson was justified. But in this case at least, the facts can't stop a slogan.

Sara Sidner, reporting for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Sara, thanks for that important report.

In the next hour, our Ryan Stelter looks at how the "hands up, don't shoot" mantra spread through both traditional and social media to become a part of popular culture.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:44] HARLOW: All right. Welcome back.

India's threatened treasures, they are the subject of this week's newest episode of "The Wonder List."

Bill Weir joins me now. You went in search of what a lot of people think is an incredibly dangerous animal, the tiger.

BILL WEIR, THE WONDER LIST: Yes, yes.

HARLOW: But what many there are trying to convince people we need to save. So, let's roll the clip and then talk about it.

WEIR: OK. Sounds good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: Punum and Harsh (ph) have another idea, convincing farmers to quit farming. Let their land go wild and live off the eco-tourists who they hope will come in droves.

And so is your vision that this whole area would be forest instead of farms?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And happier people with better returns, people who look at the tiger as their own. And the next time the poacher comes here and he's going to say, can I lay a trap I'll give you 500 the guy is going to say no. Your 500 is useless to me. This tiger is mine. And don't you dear come here.

So you know, looking at a situation today that's probably the only solution we have, that the local people, they benefit and they take care.

WEIR: To prove their concept, they bought seven barren acres between two tiger forests, put in a little water hole, and let it go wild. In just a few years, it is an animal super highway.

Oh, look at that sloth there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Porcupines, leopards, of course many, many tigers.

WEIR: Oh, my goodness. Look at that. A family of four.

What do your neighbors in the big city say when you say hey we're going to spend the weekend with the tigers out in the woods?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It kind of freaks them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So you went in part with the sole mission of spotting one of these tigers. People are going to have to watch to see if you're successful.

WEIR: Right.

HARLOW: But this is really about more than just this beautiful mysterious creature. It's about changing perceptions.

WEIR: It is. And it's about a changing planet.

Really, I heard this amazing statistic there are more tigers in cages in Texas than running wild in the forests of India.

HARLOW: Unreal.

WEIR: Blew me away.

So, I thought I wonder who'll be the last person to see one alive today, and are they disappearing? Are they coming back? And really went to a place, I also wanted to look at the Taj Mahal, and wanted to study how these amazing human precious, India's a third of the size of the U.S. with four times as many people.

HARLOW: Has you been there before?

WEIR: I've been there before.

HARLOW: OK.

WEIR: Yes. It's a fascinating but exasperating place. HARLOW: I ask because I haven't been there before. It's somewhere I'd

love to visit. I always wonder what shocked you the most about your time in India.

WEIR: Oh, boy, how much time do you have? I mean, it is such a contrast of rich and poor and opulence and poverty, and bureaucracy, and democratic hope. It's the biggest democracy in the world. But the British kind of broke them. They have this fondness of bureaucracy. So, if you can imagine how messy our democracy is and our bureaucracy can be, imagine that with four times as many people.

So, when you think about precious treasures manmade like the Taj Mahal or natural made like the tiger, what's the rub? Who has to give and take, you know?

HARLOW: I think this episode also really focuses on sort of the individuals that are changing the game. Like the lawyer with the Taj Mahal or this couple with the tigers. Rather actually than government or anything so structured changing things.

WEIR: It's a lot like here. These grassroots activists who have great ideas, whether it's Punum and Harsh to re-wild parts of India, trying to stop the pollution that's damaging the Taj.

But you got to give them credit. India is the only country in the world that has a growing tiger population. They're disappearing in other places. They've got a couple hundred in the last few years in a new census.

So, projects and the ideas you're going to see Sunday night are leading that way. So, there is hope in this hour.

HARLOW: It's a beautiful hour. And for anyone who's been to India or like me who wants to go you'll want to watch it.

Bill Weir, thank you so much.

WEIR: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Be sure to watch this later episode of "THE WONDER LIST," Sunday night, 10:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

Back in a minute.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[16:55:04] DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Doctors told this Dan Cummings he would never walk again. With each step he proves them wrong.

DAN CUMMINGS, FOUNDER, JOURNEY FORWARD: You want to motivate me, tell me I can't do something and I'm going to do it.

GUPTA: At 19, Dan was left paralyzed in the chest down after he dove into shallow water.

CUMMINGS: I truly believed as long as I took one day at a time, that there was going to come a day that I was going to walk again.

GUPTA: He got frustrated after doing three years of traditional physical therapy.

CUMMINGS: I felt that I was being taught how to live in my wheelchair and I wanted to be taught how to get out of my wheel chair.

GUPTA: Dan moved from Boston to San Diego and wanted to take part in an exercise program for people who suffered spinal cord injuries. Four years later, he walked out the door.

CUMMINGS: That left me with a new mission. I wanted to bring that program here to Boston.

GUPTA: He did just that, with the opening of Journey Forward. It's a nonprofit dedicated to helping paralyzed people become more mobile.

CUMMINGS: We're retraining the nervous system and then hundreds of thousands if not millions of repetitions. Something clicks and you build off of that. And give our clients the proper tools necessary to get them dependence, giving people their life back, quality of life.

GUPTA: Dan's next challenge now is to get insurance companies to cover the $100-an-hour cost of therapy. That would allow more patients access to the treatment. He would also like to open more facilities around the country.

CUMMINGS: It took me seven years before I took my first steps. It's a game of inches. Give it everything you have.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)