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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Can Robert Durst Be Charged For Murder?; Ted Cruz Makes It Official; Police To Announce Results Of Investigation Into Alleged Gang Rape At UVA; Investigations Into Boy Scouts Abuse Cases. Aired 12:30-1p
Aired March 23, 2015 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00] RANDI KAYE, CNN GUEST HOST: So this should be enough, really.
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: -- charges. So yes, certainly in New Orleans, but the issue about California, remember what his attorneys are attacking. They're saying, "Really, you're arresting me based on a documentary? Do you have something more than that confession or is it a confession or what they ramblings of a person who has potentially some mental infirmities?"
And then you want to talk about this letter and comparing a letter that was sent to a police department with the lead that was found. And an expert says, they are like, "Really, that's the basis for what you're arresting me?" They need to have narratives, Randi.
KAYE: Yeah.
JACKSON: But they need to have a lot more the attorneys are arguing than that?
KAYE: But -- so does this indicate that maybe they don't have a lot more, Dan? Because why would they be going after these charges a lot more than murder suspects in the murder cases?
DAN SHORE (ph): Well, we don't know what California has.
KAYE: Right.
SHORE (ph): Obviously, the documentary showed some new evidence that no doubt they are using, but they are not going to show all their evidence right now. They got a hold it until they proceed with their trial. So we'll find out in time, these weapons charges are separate and the arresting officers had no idea they would find a weapon.
So they were arresting in any way based on the warrant for the California murder. This arrest warrant, this arrest based on the weapon and the marijuana, that's just additional criminal charges that could subject into more time. But that's completely separate from the California case.
JACKSON: California arrest was not predicated upon probable cause. There's no basis to search. And therefore everything gets suppressed. It's a long shot but in the event that that's true, you know, what it could make a big difference here.
KAYE: So if you are a betting man, should he stay in jail?
JACKSON: Well, I bet he stays in jail.
SHORE (ph): He'll definitely stay in jail because that is a warrant from California.
KAYE: All right, thanks guys. Appreciate it. Joey Jackson, Dan Shore (ph) and of course Jean Casarez there in New Orleans for us earlier.
Checking out with other top stories this hour, Ted Cruz makes it official, the Republican junior senator from Texas, is in the race to be the 2016 GOP presidential nominee. He spoke before thousands of students at Liberty University this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I believe in the power of millions of courageous conservatives rising up to reignite the promise of America. And that is why today I am announcing that I'm running for president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: This afternoon, police will announce the results of the investigation into the alleged gang rape of a University of Virginia student. A woman known as Jackie caused an uproar after telling Rolling Stone that she have been attacked at a fraternity party but discrepancies in her story emerged caused Rolling Stone to apologize.
You'll be able to see that event live right here on CNN in the 2 P.M. hour Eastern Time.
The bodies of the victims in that Brooklyn house fire have arrived in Israel. Seven children in an Orthodox Jewish family were killed early Saturday in a fire that was apparently sparked by a hot plate meant to keep food warm over the Sabbath, the four boys and three girls siblings range in ages 5 to 16 years old.
Today, the sentencing phase begins for an Alabama grandmother convicted of capital murder in the death of her nine-year-old granddaughter. Authority say she forced the girl to run and carry wood for hours as punishment for a lie about candy.
Little Savannah Hardin eventually had a seizure and died three days later. The same jury who convicted her grandmother Joyce Hardin Garrard will decide whether to recommend a life sentence or the death penalty. Ultimately, it is up to the judge.
Silicon Valley giant Twitter is being accused of gender bias. A woman who once worked at Twitter is suing this company for allegedly using a secret promotion process that favors man. She says Twitter alerts only certain people job openings and promotion opportunities and regularly bypass this women.
Up next, the Mormon Church sued by a former Boy Scout who says he was sexually abused.
The CNN investigation coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:36:58] KAYE: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints better known as the Mormons has faced at least five lawsuits from former Boy Scouts who say they were abused in troops. The LDS Church is the largest sponsor of scouts in America. And scouting is a tradition in Mormon family.
And now was the case for Melvin Novak who loved both until something horrific happened to him. Investigative correspondent Kyra Philips at that story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Vance Hein was a scout master, respected master of the Mormon Church and now a convicted pedophile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am correct that you on occasion would tie Melvin up?
VANCE HEIN: Yes.
PHILIPPS: Vance Hein fooled everyone.
MELVIN NOVAK: At that point I started crying.
PHILLIPS: Why were you crying?
NOVAK: Ashamed, scared, unfortunately going in the middle of nowhere with Vance and he's asking me to remove my clothes. I was really -- felt it was wrong.
PHILLPS: For years, the clues were there. Evidence discounted. Even a state trooper wrote in a police report, he believed Vance Hein was a sexual predator. But for the Boy Scouts of America and the Mormon Church, those warning signs were missed.
Melvin Novak was five years old when he met Vance Hein at church. But it was here at Camp Horseshoe in Chester County, Pennsylvania when Hein became his scout leader. They became close.
NOVAK: He always had something I wanted. Whether it was spending time with me, whether it was buying me something cool that a kid would want, whether it was taking you places kids would want to go, taking special interest in you, basically noticing me.
PHILLIPS: Years of what Novak and his family thought was a loving mentorship. But that all changed when Hein asked him to join a secret club, a "Brotherhood." NOVAK: He said I will be part of an organization that's deeper into the Boy Scouts and it's a journey that would, you know, build you and me a bond together.
PHILLIPS: An abusive journey that occurred at Hein's home and here at Boy Scout camp.
NOVAK: This time he took a branch. He just found like a twig in the woods and just use that to smack me and a lot of times hit me in the genitals.
PHILLIPS: However, that ritual was just a coverup for a come on that culminated in a hotel room.
NOVAK: There is just one final thing you need to fully commit to me as your brother. Not as a spirit guide anymore but now as his brother in the brotherhood. And that's when he got in on his and started to give me oral. And I just sat there, you know, tears rolling down my face crying.
PHILLIPS: 15 years later, Novak decided to sue one of at least five lawsuits across the country blaming not only the Boy Scouts of America but the Mormon Church for sexual abuse they suffered in the Boy Scouts.
The lawsuit charges Vance Hein actively groomed young boys under his charge sexual molestation.
[12:40:03] KEN ROTHWEILER, NOVAK'S ATTORNEY: The LDS Church knew that Vance Hein is pedophile, was already kicked out of the scouting by the Boy Scouts of America.
PHILLIPS: Kicked out, fired from his job at the Boy Scout. And his name added to what's an eligible, volunteer files. Files otherwise known as the perversion files, black lists of scout leaders suspected of sexual abuse or homosexuality. They became public in 2012.
This is Vance Hein so called perversion file it includes a termination memo from the Boy Scouts of America stating Hein was aware of homosexual activity when he was camp director which is again scout rules and failed to report such activity. Incidents that involved a camp worker he supervised who was sent to prison, years later for sexual assaults on minors.
In addition, this crime report says Hein had a sexual relationship with the worker and deliberately acted to prevent his removal from the camp staff allowing the abuse to continue. The state trooper who wrote this report says he wanted to arrest Hein for endangering children but no charges where ever filed.
Hein describes how he lured and abused Melvin Novak in this deposition taken last year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you talk to Melvin about a journey that he may have to undertake a brotherhood.
HEIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that your way of grooming him?
HEIN: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Even though Hein didn't admit to the abuse until years later in between that time he was able to convince the Boy Scout to reinstate. He had powerful supporters. This letters where all written a testing to Vance Hein's character including this one from Hein's influential Mormon Bishop Jack Moyer, it says "Hein is a member of my congregation I have full faith and trust in him in his dealings with all our young man at church. He is highly respected and liked."
In a deposition the Bishop Moyer who is now retired admit he just didn't do enough digging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you had to do all over again would you've done some investigation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. And I wouldn't have written the letter,either.
PHILLIPS: The Bishop's attorney puts the blame solely on the Boys Scouts of America.
DAVID PATTINSKY, LDS ATTORNEY: If the Boy Scouts had disclosed to Bishop Moyer the information they had in their files there is no way that Vance Hein would ever have become a Scoutmaster and he would have been subject to excommunication by the church.
PHILLIPS: The Boy Scouts of America declined our repeated request for an on-camera interview. But in a statement said "Vance Hein's membership was revoked for reasons unrelated to child abuse." When he reapplies to the scout a thorough review was conducted by many communities and scouting leaders and his application to be an adult volunteer leader was accepted.
While declining to comment further on the Novak case, the Boy Scouts did say "Our efforts to protect youth were plainly insufficient, inappropriate, or wrong. We extend our deepest apologies to victims and their families." The Boy Scout of America says "It is taking steps to prevent sexual abuse."
PHILLIPS: And your message to the Moron church?
NOVAK: Do something now.
PHILLIPS: In the Mormon churches first interview on sexual abuse and the boys scout we sat down with Church Elder L. Whitney Clayton.
What do you say to Melvin Novak?
L. WHITNEY CLAYTON, LDS CHURCH ELDER: I say to him and to anyone else who's been abused in the church or other church, I'm sorry that you've gone through what you've gone through, its horrible thing for anybody to be abused. PHILLIPS: Clayton made it very clear unlike decades ago the Mormon Church has implemented safeguard to try and prevent it.
CLAYTON: We want this message to be clear, no child should have to endure child abuse period. That's what zero tolerance means, we want our members to know what to do, we want leaders know what to do. We take extraordinary steps you put safeguard in place. We build our buildings, we remodel buildings in such a way that these doors have windows and, you know, the (inaudible) policy, the annotations on church records paying for counseling all the things that we do are designed to do what we think the savior would do to protect children in a world that has lost it's moral compass.
PHILLIPS: Can you say with absolute certainty to all moms and dads our LDS Boys Scout troops are safe.
[12:45:05] CLAYTON: I can say that we do everything we possibly being I don't know anyone, anywhere, who offers protection excepts the Lord Jesus Christ. And we're not perfect but we're doing our very best we can.
KAYE: And you're probably wondering what happened since. Well Kayra Phillips is here with me in New York and she'll be joining us next to bring us up to date.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Continue our coverage now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints better known as the Mormons which faced at least five lawsuits from former Boy Scout to say they where abused when they where in the boys scout.
Investigate Correspondent Kayra Phillips brought us the story of one of those boys Melvin Novak who loved the scouts and the church until something horrific happened to him.
Kyra is here with me now to talk more about this. So, incredibly disturbing investigation that you've done. What happened in the Novak case?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORREPONDENT: Well the case is settled now. Melvin is trying to move on to his life, he is in really intense counseling trying to raise a new baby with his wife. The LDS church said it was not held liable. And did not have to pay in the settlement. Boy Scout so ever wouldn't tell us wouldn't comment on the settlement.
KAYE: And what about the Former Scout Leader Vance Hein who we saw there admitting to what he had done.
PHILLIPS: He was on probation for the Melvin Novak case caught with child porn in prison now serving up to 30. And as you saw by the piece and this is what's so heart-wrenching as a mom to -- and a journalist, he just shows no remorse. No feeling at all and had no problem talking about how he abused and all that.
[12:50:17 ]KAYE: And he went into great detail, didn't he?
PHILLIPS: Oh yes, when asked certain questions, he had no problem admitting to what he did. He has been excommunicated from the Mormon Church and we did reach out to him for an interview but he never responded.
KAYE: And what about the other lawsuits that you mentioned against the Mormon Church and Boy Scouts as well.
PHILLIPS: All of them settled except for one that's still pending in Idaho so we'll be following that of course.
KAYE: I'm sure you will. All right Kyra, appreciate it. Great reporting.
PHILLIPS: Thanks Randi.
KAYE: Thank you.
Up next, the Confederate flag as a highly offensive symbol to a whole lot of people. But is that reason enough to ban it from license plates? The Supreme Court pondering that very question today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAYE: Does the Americans with Disabilities Act with special obligations on police facing mentally ill suspects even when those suspects maybe armed and dangerous. We'll know by late June when the U.S. Supreme Court hands down a decision in a case that was argued just last hour.
A San Francisco women whom police officer shot five times back in 2008 but who survived, sue the city, claiming officers should've backed off since they knew that she was schizophrenic and was off from medication.
[12:55:02] The city points out that the woman came at the officers with a knife and they tried pepper spray before they open fire.
We will keep you posted on that one.
The high court heard another case today that may hit close to home, or close to car anyway. Every state in the union offers so called specialty license plate that benefit causes or colleges. Or in the nine states you see here, the Sons of Confederate Veterans. But note to big red question mark over Texas. Texas offers almost 400 specialty plates. But drew the line of this, bowing to objections, the confederate battle flag and what it represents to so many Americans.
An issue today before the highest court in the land, do license plates represent the private speech of private citizens and does deserve First Amendment protection, or are they government speech and subjects the government authority.
My next guest takes the free speech side. Ben Jones is a National Spokesman for the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Before that was a U.S. Congressman from Georgia, and before that he was Cooter on the Dukes of Hazzard.
Nice to see you very much, so make your case, Congressman, why is the Texas DMV not entitled to veto license plates that it finds offensive?
BEN JONES, SONS OF CONFEDERATE VETERANS SPOKESMAN: Thank you Randi and I am a former congressman, let me make that clear. I'm a recovering congressman. The -- obviously they should and I think that the Supreme Court will uphold the Circuit Court which ruled against Texas.
When someone puts a vanity plate or a special plate like these sponsored plates for nonprofit organizations, they're putting them on they're making the decision to put in on themselves. And then obviously isn't the point of view of the State of Texas but are the individual putting that license plate on.
The Sons of Confederate Veterans is a proud heritage organization, 30,000 members who are descended from those who fought for the confederacy. And we're not ashamed of that, that's our family, that's our DNA and we are a heritage organization. We despise the use of confederate symbols for hate groups, by racist groups.
We find that to be a desecration and there is approximately has been estimated 70 million Americans are descended from the confederacy. And, you know, we're not ashamed of that, they were our people and we're descended from them. They're in our DNA.
KAYE: Right.
JONES: Their pictures are on the wall. Their names are in our bibles.
KAYE: But --
JONES: But the other experience -- go ahead, I'm sorry.
KAYE: Well, I'm just wanting to you too respond to the fact that the state of Texas says that it should not be required to endorse all sorts of what they call distasteful messages. This is the state's argument that that specialty license plates are the government's speech, not that of the car owner. So what do you say to that?
JONES: Well, it doesn't represent the government's point of view and I don't think that the Sons of Confederate Veterans are in the least distasteful. We're an honored heritage group. We want to -- we want reconciliation in the south and among the races. That was what Dr. King wanted.
And these tactics that they're using are very divisive. They're very offensive to us. And yet we try to turn the other to cheek but don't paint us something we are not. And that's what the state of Texas is saying and doing that we are somehow by nature of our DNA offensive.
Well, I find that offensive. And I was very active in the Civil Rights Movement. I went through the whole thing, Randi, with you know, with Dr. King and others. And he said I would bring that someday on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the former sons of former slave owners will be able to dine together at the table of brotherhood.
We want that too, the sons want that. This is a very divisive thing, a very divisive tactic to call us racist, to call us Nazis and oppressors. So it's ridiculous argument.
KAYE: Let me just jump in here and ask you. If you prevail though, aren't you opening the door to anti-Semitic license plates, pornographic plates, plates that benefit the KKK. I mean how far does this go? Where does it end?
JONES: No, that's a straw man argument. It ends where common sense ends and it ends where the State of Texas, by good reasoning, will draw that line. Obviously, you know, terrorist, you know, destroy America people, or people who break the law, you know, who are indeed hateful. I can understand that argument. But this is not about that.
If you're going to say for instance and a lot of states have choose life.
KAYE: I understand.
JONES: Plates that are pro life, well then the other side of that is pro choice, which a lot of people I know are and --
[13:00:00] KAYE: Yeah, all right.
JONES: They're controversial issues. But --
KAYE: I understand. Ben Jones, we have -- we have to leave it there. We've got to leave it there.
JONES: Well, --
KAYE: Thank you very much though.
JONES: -- I hope we can pick it up sometime. Thank you --
KAYE: I hope so, too.
JONES: -- for having me on.
KAYE: Appreciate the discussion. I'm Randi Kaye. Thanks so much for watching today. "WOLF" starts right now.
