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Bowe Bergdahl Announcement; Americans in France Crash. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired March 25, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: For our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We got several major stories to report here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour.

Two breaking stories. First up, on the plane crash, that Germanwings Airbus 320, we now have new information at this hour that a third American was on that flight that took off in Barcelona, was headed to Dusseldorf, crashed in the French Alps. We have much more on who was on the plane, what the investigators are doing there in this mountainous region and what now we know from investigators, from basically the French equivalent of the NTSB. That - stand by for that.

Also breaking here on CNN, we are now soon to learn the fate of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. That should happen live during this show. You know his story. He was the soldier who left his post in Afghanistan, that was back in June of 2009. He was captured and held by the Taliban for a number of years, for five years. Last year, it was last May, the United States worked out his exchange for those five detainees you see on your screen here. Five members of the Taliban who had been held at Guantanamo Bay. Reports emerged in January that the Pentagon had decided to charge Bergdahl with desertion, but so far the Pentagon has adamantly denied those reports.

Let's go first to Ed Lavandera. He's live for me with so much to really unpack on this.

Ed, I think as we await sort of news of any kind of disciplinary action, let's begin with the possibilities. What are the options he could face?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, well, Brooke, I just hung up a phone call with the attorney for Bowe Bergdahl and he tells me, he confirms to us, that what the U.S. military will announce here at 3:30 Eastern Time is that Bowe Bergdahl has indeed been charged with two charges, deserting - desertion and misbehavior before the enemy and that his case now is being referred to an Article 32 hearing, which is the equivalent of a grand jury proceeding in the U.S. military court system. So Bowe Bergdahl apparently will face criminal charges in the U.S. military justice system. This according to his own attorney who was brief on these matters a short while ago. And we're to - we expect this to be the announcement here in a couple of hours from Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: So that's huge, that's huge that you just got off the phone with the attorney with those two charges, criminal charges here, which means, obviously, they have to have evidence at hand in order to bring these charges. So hopefully we will get those details when we see that announcement here live in just over an hour.

I think it's worth, just for our viewers, Ed, to back up because when we were first covering the story in the wake of the swap, a lot of stories coming out, hearing from members of his unit back, you know, remembering whether he wandered off, the circumstances of his wandering away from his unit in Afghanistan in June of 2009. You know, and some of these members of his unit even, you know, calling him a traitor, saying that basically other American lives were lost.

Actually, I'm being told now I've got Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

And, Barbara, you'd be perfect on this. Can you take us all back to June of 2009 and remind us what we know happened then.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, to you, Brooke, you know, this is going to be very fundamental to the Army's case of assembling enough evidence to secure what they hope is, you know, obviously a conviction on a charge of desertion and misbehavior with the enemy.

Let me jump in and say, at this hour, Congress is also being notified of exactly what Ed has just reported, that Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl will be charged with desertion and this charge of misbehavior with the enemy.

He goes missing from his base in July 2009 in eastern Afghanistan. There is no indication ever that the Taliban came aboard the base and captured him. For some reason, he left the base. Now, a charge of desertion requires that you are able to prove the person had no intent to ever return to military service, to return to that base. So in order for the Army to bring a charge like that, they would have to have what they believe is enough evidence to make that charge and to have a reasonable chance of conviction.

There are some intermediate steps before they get there. If General Milly (ph) is announcing at 3:30 he is sending this to what they call an Article 32, that is the military equivalent of a grand jury proceeding. They will again look at the evidence, try and assemble the evidence. But because this happened so long ago and it happened in the middle of essentially a war zone, it's going to be a really interesting case. They're going to have to have some evidence perhaps from his former teammates. A lot of them are out of the Army. They're going to have to subpoena them.

[14:05:02] BALDWIN: So they have to be subpoenaed. Yes.

STARR: They're going to have to subpoena them, bring them back into a military court. Will those witnesses hold up now under defense cross- examination? Even at an Article 32, you can cross-examine witnesses. It is one thing for - and no disparaging remarks here. But it is one thing for some of these former soldiers to offer their personal opinions and views, which are perfectly valid to them. It's going to be another thing whether those views and personal opinions are sufficient to make a case in a military court of law.

Bergdahl was held for five years by the Taliban before President Obama made the deal to switch him for those Taliban detainees. President Obama making the case that it was worth it. You never leave a soldier behind, that the war was wrapping up and that there's always an exchange of prisoners.

So what were the conditions in which he was held? Was he tortured? Was he - did he - did he suffer? How did he suffer at the hands of the Taliban?

This other charge is a bit mysterious. Misbehavior with the enemy. Did - did -

BALDWIN: What does that even mean, Barbara?

STARR: We - you know, I've got to tell you, Brooke, right now, this early on, I'm not sure we do know what that means. There were reports, you know, that was there - was there a possibility of collaboration? Did this young man suffer after five years, you know, from what we popularly know to be Stockholm syndrome after being in captivity so long, you know, feeling an affinity for his captors? Let's be very clear, we don't know. We do not know.

There may also be administrative charges that they bring against Bergdahl. They could - prior to any trial, prior to any Article 32. One of the big issues on the table, in all the years he was held in captivity, he got promotions, he was promoted.

BALDWIN: Right.

STARR: He also got paid. That is hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Army, if they want to make a charge of desertion, they want the pay back. They're not going to let him keep that pay. How are they going to get that back? One way to get that back is to make that ultimate charge of desertion.

Even if they get a conviction down the road, there will still be a good deal of flexibility on sentencing. It's not at all clear that he will go to military detention, how long he would go for, what kind of sentence he would get. People will tell you that the military code of justice does allow for the death penalty for cases of desertion in a time of war. I think right now many people will tell you that's very unlikely in this case. That the death penalty is generally not been something that the U.S. military has pursued for these types of matters in recent years.

Let me bring something up. There is a Marine who left his unit twice. Once in Iraq during the war there and once back at Camp Lejeune. He fled to Lebanon. He recently came back, decided he wanted to come back to the United States rather than be in a Middle East war zone, and he has recently been sentenced to two years in military detention. He will serve that out. He will be dishonorably discharged and he will be, you know, back in civilian life in two years in the United States. So there may be some military case law precedence that will emerge here.

But this is a case that has been very stressful for the U.S. military. It has been very stressful for the U.S. Army. For a soldier, for any member to walk away from their unit, that is very serious business.

BALDWIN: And let me just follow up on that. And thank you so much for all of this incredible reporting. There's a lot to unpack here. But here's my follow-up to you. When you mentioned, you know, two beats ago about, you know, President Obama and this notion of leave no soldier behind. I mean, listen, when we covered that prisoner swap in May of last year, it was, you know, the administration was certainly criticized that they would be willing to trade to bring these members of the Taliban, these five men out of, you know, Guantanamo Bay and return them to Qatar, but still there were questions about whether or not certain members had even reached out back to members - to terrorists. The follow-up would be, what about the Obama administration, knowing that, you know, a desertion charge would potentially be on the table, what implications would this mean for the administration, for the Pentagon here?

STARR: Well, let's talk a little bit about how this military justice system works. The Army has been handling this completely in secret and that is how military justice at this point would work. This is a command review by General Mark Milly (ph), the four-star head of U.S. Army forces in the United States. He has complete discretion at this point to decide how he wants to proceed. He's been reviewing all the evidence for several months. He could go administrative. He's apparently decided to go criminal with the charge of desertion. Again, he'll send it likely to an Article 32 grand jury proceeding type of proceeding in the U.S. military. That proceeding will decide if it goes to a full trial.

[14:10:21] At every step they have to have the evidence to make the charge. That's exactly like it is in civilian law in this country. You can't have frivolous prosecution. The prosecutor has to truly demonstrate they have the evidence that could reasonably get them to a conviction.

In terms of those guys, the Taliban terrorists that were released from Guantanamo Bay, that's very interesting because already we know that the U.S. government's been having conversations with Qatar about keeping them under surveillance in Qatar longer. They're coming up on that one-year period when they're up for review.

BALDWIN: Right.

STARR: I can tell you that our own Jim Sciutto has been talking to Qataris officials behind the scenes and there are indications that the Qataris know they're going to be asked to keep them longer because there's some obvious concerns about one or more of them going back to Afghanistan, getting back into the fight. Some of them were already likely to be up for release from Guantanamo

Bay. The administration's been trying to get people out of Guantanamo, send them to other countries, have them monitored for a while. Not a perfect system. But it's essentially, you know, the system that they have. So I think you're going to see them trying to keep this on two separate channels, the Bergdahl matter and the matter with the Taliban detainees.

BALDWIN: OK.

STARR: Right now, I think one of the other issues is, you will recall, when Bergdahl was released, and we saw that amazing video that you see here of U.S. special operations risking their lives in an extraordinary fashion, getting off that helicopter, walking straight up to the Taliban to get Bergdahl back, that could have gone very badly. It was done very quickly, very professionally. Those are guys with some real nerves of steel.

The president, a short time later, appeared in the Rose Garden with Bergdahl's parents, spoke highly of Bergdahl and talked about being glad to get him back. National Security Adviser Susan Rice talked about him serving honorably. He got promotions. He got pay. Some of that was all just standard procedure. But these are all things that a defense counsel is likely to make the point as the proceedings go on. He was treated by, you know, honorably by the U.S. government when he came home. What are you doing now? The defense counsel will try and make all the points that they can on this exactly as you would expect them to.

BALDWIN: Phenomenal. Phenomenal reporting from the Pentagon. Barbara Starr, thank you so much. We'll come back to you.

Ed Lavandera, before I let you go, let me just come back fully to you and can you just remind all of us where Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl has been this entire time since being returned home back to the United States.

LAVANDERA: You know, he was assigned to basically do an administrative work with an Army unit down in San Antonio, Texas. He has been here ever since he was brought back to the United States. And I think it was in late June, perhaps early July by the time he had made it back, if my memory serves correctly. So he has been there.

It was in August that he was interviewed by Army investigators and cooperated fully and told his story, his version of events from what we're told. And, obviously, it's taken a great deal of time to get to this point. But as far as we know, Bowe Bergdahl is still assigned to that unit in San Antonio, Texas, and that's where he has been since he came back to the United States last summer.

BALDWIN: All right, Ed Lavandera, thank you. Ed, breaking the news at the top of the hour. Again, we'll be watching and waiting for this news officially to come out from, as Barbara was reporting, General Mark Milly (ph), head of the U.S. Army Forces Command. This full investigation has been in his hands. This Bowe Bergdahl investigation. That happens at 3:30 p.m. Eastern Time. We will take that in full. Ed Lavandera, Barbara Starr, we'll return for that.

Meantime, the other breaking story here, the mystery surrounding this plane, this Airbus, this Germanwings Airbus 320. Live pictures here inside of this next news conference we'll look in on. The Lufthansa CEO will be speaking. More on the what, the when, the where, the who and the why, next. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:50] BALDWIN: Breaking news here. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Live pictures, Barcelona, Spain, as we are watching and waiting for this news conference to begin on the crash, the investigation, the implications here this plane that went down in the French Alps. Again, just a heads up, we're watching and waiting to hear from both the CEO of Lufthansa and the Germanwings CEO.

We also have more breaking news here from the State Department. Another American -- we're learning a third American was on board this Airbus 320. So total here we're learning of three Americans, two of whom have just been identified. We'll bring you what we know about this third American. But as you can see, this young girl, this daughter and her mother were on that plane. More on them in just a moment.

But first, this investigation here. One huge clue has been recovered. The cockpit voice recorder. Yes, it's said to be badly damaged, but the big news here, the fact that investigators have been able to extract an audio file which they say they're hearing voices. They have listened to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMI JOUTY, DIRECTOR, BEA (through translator): This is good news and a relief for us. We have been able to extract an audio file that we could use. And, well, we know that this is concerning this particular flight, but it's too soon to draw any conclusions with respect to what happened. Following this, with respect to this module, sound module or file, we'll have to do some work to understand and interpret the sounds and the voices that might be heard on that audio file.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:32] BALDWIN: So that's the cockpit voice recorder. The other issue, the other black box is the flight data recorder. The French president speaking today said that they did find the shell casing of the flight data recorder but the valuable, that information chip, that is what's still missing. They're still looking for that, the investigators in the French Alps. That was a claim disputed by the French investigator and that could contain one of the key unanswered questions here, the why, why the plane reached 38,000 feet and then dropped for 10 minutes with no distress call from the cockpit. French government officials say they have not ruled out terrorism, but they consider it an unlikely explanation.

Joining me now, CNN's aviation and government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh with the American angle here. Rene, talk to me about this mother and this daughter and now this

third American.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: So, Brooke, that is the news and the headlines that just came out of the State Department that there were indeed three Americans on board this night. We know the identities of two. The first Yvonne Selke and her daughter, Emily Selke. They're both from Nokesville, Virginia, which is about 45 minutes outside of Washington, D.C., And we are learning more biographical information about these two.

We know that Emily Selke was a student at Drexel University. The university confirming to CNN that they are aware of the death. Also, her sorority there, she was a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma. They also paying their respects to her via FaceBook.

We do know that she worked, Emily, worked at a company by the name of Carr Works here in Washington, D.C. She worked as a community manager. And we know her mother works for the consulting firm Booz Allen. So that's what we know about those two.

CNN has been in contact with Richard Selke, who is the father and the husband. And he says, as you would imagine, Brooke, that he is just broken up and cannot bring himself to speak. But we are expecting some sort of family statement at some point today. We don't have a timeline for when we will get it. But we are expecting that - that from Richard Selke.

Now, on to that third American. We are still without any information as far as the identity. The State Department saying that they are actively working now to get in touch with that individual's family and notify them first.

BALDWIN: Can't even begin to imagine what these families are going through. As we get more information, obviously, we'll pass it along. For now, Rene Marsh, thank you so much.

Again, we'll come back to this coverage. I've got Les Abend and Richard Quest sitting next to me. We'll wait for that news conference and we'll parse through some of that.

But I want to pivot back to the big news here. Former Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl will be charged with desertion by the U.S. Army. This is what we're learning from his attorney here. We're learning desertion and misbehavior before the enemy.

I've got Coley Simpson on the phone. He's a former military judge and homeland security expert. Captain Collie Stenson (ph).

Can you hear me, sir?

CHARLES COLLIE STENSON (ph), FORMER MILITARY JUDGE: I can.

BALDWIN: Let's begin with, when we hear about this charge of desertion, what sort of punishment could that charge bring?

STENSON: Yes, first it's important to recognize that he is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

BALDWIN: Of course.

STENSON: But if he's charged with - if he's charged with desertion and misbehavior before the enemy or either one, the maximum possible penalty could be death or any other lawful punishment the court martial could adjudge him, which could be no punishment up to death or life imprisonment or something less. So these are very serious charges and there's going to be a process that has to play out between now and then before we even get to a court martial.

BALDWIN: Let's just - let's just begin the process. I mean when I was listening to both Barbara Starr and Ed Lavandera, they were likely - when they were talking about the criminal charges, the equivalent is essentially what we know in civilian court as a grand jury. They have to have -- in order to bring about these charges, correct me if I'm wrong, when we're talking desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, you have to, obviously, have the evidence. So how - in -- what's is the process in which that evidence will be presented, sir?

STENSON: Yes, and I used to be a federal and state prosecutor, so I'm familiar with the civilian side, too. The way it works is this. He's presumed innocent now. and to get the ball rolling, they send him to an Article 32, which is more akin to a preliminary hearing, not a grand jury -

BALDWIN: OK.

[14:24:52] STENSON: Because there's actually a defense attorney there and the defense attorney can cross-examine folks. At the end of the Article 32, the investigating officer, who's a quasi-judge, will make a recommendation as to whether there's probable cause to believe, based on the government's evidence, that he committed either desertion or misbehavior before the enemy. If they made that recommendation, one or both charges, then that goes to the general that owned Bergdahl, called the convening authority. The general court martial convening authority.

And that convening authority can decide, Brooke, either to send him to a general court martial, to send him to a special court martial or simply do other administrative things or do nothing. If they decide to send him to a general court martial, then those charges are referred to a general court martial and that's when you and I both know as regular trials would begin, pretrial litigation, motions and then an actual trial potentially.

BALDWIN: OK. Now, when I understand desertion, I know that - you have to prove that this individual, in this case Bowe Bergdahl, had no intention of returning to his unit, one, that's desertion. Two, the second charge we're hearing about from this attorney, misbehavior before the enemy. Sir, what does that even mean?

STENSON: Yes, that's one of those unique military justice concepts that you don't see in civilian practice. And it could be charged a number of different ways. But generally means you run away or you shamefully or abandon your post. That you are a coward, I mean literally talked about being a coward or cowardly conduct, and that you simply don't do your job and you're a coward. And so there's various definitions under the code, but it's the type of behavior that you want to discourage your soldiers, sailor, Army and Marine from doing during a time of armed conflict. And, of course, the government would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt all those elements and the elements that we're at war, which we're under an authorization to use military force. That would be the easiest part of the charge.

BALDWIN: So if I am Bowe Bergdahl's defense counsel, though, I would bring in two points. One, the fact that he was promoted during captivity. Two, the fact that National Security Adviser Susan Rice said Bergdahl served with U.S. honor and distinction. How will that play into all of this?

STENSON: That's not going to help at all. And I know Gene Fidel (ph). He's a great lawyer, defense counsel. I think what Gene will do, like any good defense counsel, is he will go to the convening authority and try to short circuit this process and try to get the best deal that he can under the circumstances, whether it would be a special court martial, which is a misdemeanor plea, or even an administrative discharge. And the strongest argument he's going to make is this, look, OK, yes, he technically did this, he committed these crimes, but he suffered. He suffered punishment far worse than military justice can ever get - system can ever give him at the hands of the enemy. And these are all the horrible things that the enemy did to him. You all got your pound of flesh. And the humane, fair thing to do is give us a plea deal that's fair to all sides concerned. And that's, I think, the strongest legal argument that's going to be out there. It's essentially a mitigation request.

BALDWIN: OK. Charles Collie Stenson, thank you so much for your expertise in walking us through the sort of military process and what these charges could mean. I appreciate it so much. And, obviously, we'll have this whole thing live in exactly one hour from now here on CNN.

Coming up, what is the White House saying about this - these Bowe Bergdahl charges, if anything? We'll take you to the White House for any kind of reaction, if there is any thus far.

Also, we're waiting for a news conference. As we mentioned, live pictures out of Barcelona, Spain, waiting for both the CEOs of Germanwings, that budget airplane that crashed in the French Alps, and also the CEO of Lufthansa.

Stay with me. A lot of news happening on this Wednesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:04] BALDWIN: Coming out of break early here because we want to listen on the latest investigation here from both the CEOs of Germanwings and Lufthansa, speaking from Barcelona, Spain.