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Plane Crash Investigation; Bowe Bergdahl Facing Charges. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired March 25, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:06] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: More on that, but first let me turn and talk about the U.S. government's decision to charge Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl with desertion and also charge him with misbehavior before the enemy, this official announcement coming from an official with the Army in Fort Bragg in 30 minutes from now. Stay right here for that.

Bowe Bergdahl, he's the soldier who left his post in Eastern Afghanistan. That was June of 2009. He was captured and held by the Haqqani Network, by the Taliban, until last year. He was released after the United States arranged that exchange. And we talked a lot about that. Remember these five men here, these five members of the Taliban who were held at Guantanamo Bay?

All as part of this agreement with the Taliban, they were swapped for Bowe Bergdahl, who, by the way, was promoted and received pay the entire time he was held captive by the Taliban.

So I have got Ed Lavandera and I have got Barbara Starr. They have covered the Bergdahl story extensively.

Welcome back to the two of you. As we await this official statement from the Army, Barbara, let me just begin with you. Why don't we run through these initial charges and explain to me what this will mean for him.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very serious, Brooke.

Desertion, it doesn't really get more serious than that. But that may be a difficult charge to make. To make a charge of desertion, you have to have the evidence that the military person deliberately left his post and had no intention of returning, intended never to come back, to be potentially with enemy forces.

This gets down to the essential question that we don't know the answer to. Did Bergdahl absolutely intend to willfully desert his post? Or was this a confused man who was not suited to military life and decided just to leave and did not understand potentially the implications of his actions? I will tell you that is the debate I hear in Pentagon hallways. That's what people are laying out.

What is it? Who was Bowe Bergdahl? What was his intent when he left his base in July of 2009 in Eastern Afghanistan? That goes to the charge of desertion. Misbehavior before the enemy, that essentially means shamefully, in the words of the Military Code of Justice, abandoning your post.

So they're now laying out the charges. They will have to have the evidence to make those charges and they will have to have evidence to go to trial that leads them to believe they have a reasonable chance of conviction.

What we are likely to see is that there will be a reference to an Article 32 proceeding, the equivalent of a grand jury in the U.S. military. They will hear from witnesses. Witnesses will be cross- examined, evidence will be evaluated, and then there will be another huge decision. Do you take this to a full courts-martial, Brooke?

BALDWIN: Let me come back to you, Barbara.

But, next, Ed, I know that you have covered him in Texas. He's been in San Antonio. He's had this administrative job there. Has he been out at all since he's returned as a result of this prisoner swap? Has he been out in public? Did he ever meet with his parents?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As far as we know, we do not know if there's actually been an in-person reunion between Bowe Bergdahl and his parents and his family up in Idaho.

Bergdahl's parents, Bob and Jani Bergdahl, have only said and have really shut down ever since the day after the announcement was made that Bowe Bergdahl was released. They flew back to Idaho, made a brief statement and have remained quiet ever since, because in the days after that, things quickly turned against Bowe Bergdahl, as many of his platoon mates began speaking out against him and accusing him of being a traitor and abandoning his platoon mates.

All of that quickly turned. Because of that, we haven't heard much from his parents. I was told by two different people about six months ago that there had been some communication between Bowe Bergdahl and his parents, but those sources weren't really able to say exactly how that communication was ongoing, if it was ongoing, kind of consistent, or what exactly the deal was there.

And we have gotten no indication. Bowe Bergdahl's lawyer refuses to answer any of these questions having to do with the family dynamic between Bowe Bergdahl and his parents. They say that that is not something -- the lawyer says that's not something they're going to talk about.

BALDWIN: OK. I have also been told I have got General Mark Hertling. I believe he's on the phone.

General, are you with me?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I am, Brooke. How are you this afternoon?

BALDWIN: I'm all right. I'm all right. We're a little busy here at CNN.

Let me begin with this. When you hear about desertion charges, and to Barbara's point, it doesn't really get much more serious than -- but you have to prove that that person never intended to return to base in his case there in Eastern Afghanistan.

[15:05:00] The fact that you know members of the U.S. military stood out there -- and we have seen the video here of them risking their lives to be part of this prisoner exchange with members of the Taliban -- your reaction to all of this?

HERTLING: Well, I think the reaction across the military is probably going to be very positive.

Most of the soldiers who were with him reported a very different story than what was known in the news about him and what he had done in Afghanistan. As we also talked a few weeks ago when what's called the A.R., or Army Regulation 15-6 was conducted by his general court- martial authority, and that was General Milley at Fort Hood, Texas, this is an issue where he is going to be charged with several offenses.

And the 15-6 investigation was determining what would be the proof of evidence to go to a general trial. And there was enough evidence, obviously, in that general court-martial, to relay charges. And that's what occurred today. The lawyers will take that 15-6 investigation that was conducted by a two-star general to determine what the charges should be.

So it does go beyond just desertion and, as you said, the second charge of basically cavorting with the enemy is the one that they were probably debating the most as to whether or not to add that on as a fifth.

BALDWIN: You have people, General, who say, my goodness, he was held by the Taliban for five years. That is a form of punishment none of us will ever be able to wrap our heads around.

HERTLING: Right.

BALDWIN: There is the possibility, depending on the way this goes, death. And then you have anything in between. You could even have a deal brokered. Do you think Bowe Bergdahl should be punished, should serve time, period?

HERTLING: Well, I mean, that's something that the court-martial will decide. And I don't think we can lend too much credence to the fact that he was with the Taliban for five years, because, from all evidence, that was his decision to desert his post and actually go into the civilian environment, where he was captured by the Taliban.

And it was part of probably the consideration as they were putting the general court-martial paperwork together. So, yes, he was in Afghanistan for five years. But, as Barbara has reported, this is a capital offense that we're talking about. Leaving a post during a time of war has a maximum penalty of death.

And there have been several instances during the course of military history in the United States where, in fact, the death penalty was given for soldiers who deserted their post during time of war. Now, that's not saying that's going to happen, but certainly that was part of the consideration of the seriousness of this offense when he did leave his post.

BALDWIN: Again, we will be hearing from an official at Fort Bragg in just about 20 minutes from now on these charges involving Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl.

For now, General Hertling, thank you for jumping on the phone with me. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon and Ed Lavandera in Texas, thanks to all of you. We will take that news conference as soon as it starts, again, expecting that to happen at 3:30 p.m. Eastern time.

Let me turn now to this Germanwings airplane, this crash mystery, which has become an international tragedy. We just heard from the CEO of Lufthansa saying that they have victims who were on board on this plane from 18 different countries. We have also now learned this afternoon that there were three Americans among those on board this plane.

The news of this third American victim coming to CNN just a short time ago via the State Department. As far as the investigation here, one huge clue has been recovered from this debris field here in the mountains of the French Alps, and that being the cockpit voice recorder. The cockpit voice recorder here, it was inside this mangled black box. Investigators found this crucial piece of data. It was a chip with this audio file that reportedly contained both sound and voices.

Joining me now, CNN international correspondent Nic Robertson, who is there in France, and also I have Suzanne Malveaux, who is standing by in Virginia, where several of these Americans who were on board this plane are from.

Nic Robertson, first to you.

Here's this CEO of Lufthansa just this past hour. He did make news in that they will be providing a flight for some of these family members to come as close as possible to where you are, to this crash site. But can you just explain to all of us watching -- this is a crash site where it's difficult. You can't even land a helicopter here.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's just difficult to understate really how steep the mountainside is where the crash took place.

What we're expecting is the first of those family members who want to come here will be arriving in France, in the South of France, possibly Marseille, as early as tomorrow afternoon. Some of them would be expected to stay in this village here.

[15:10:03] It's a very small village in the mountains. So others would stay in other places. However, the chances of them actually getting into that site are going to be very, very unlikely in the short-term. Why? Because, even today, the air accident investigators were only overflying the site looking from the air. The recovery teams were only getting on the ground because the

helicopters were literally winching them in. We were watching some of those recovery teams going on the helicopters this morning. They had harnesses on because the helicopters can't get on the ground. They land them in, in this very narrow ravine by lowering them down, and then they bring them out at the end of the day.

And today the focus was on recovering bodies, but it's going to be slow. No bodies were recovered today. One of the reasons why, they have to record the locations of the bodies and also do some medical procedures on site as well. And that is part and parcel of, A, the air accident investigation, but, B, because there is a criminal investigation in as well because deaths were caused here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Deaths, including several Americans.

Suzanne, I know you're outside this Virginia home of a mother and daughter who were on that flight. What are you learning about the two of them?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Brooke, this is the kind of neighborhood where you can see this is where the victims live, where the houses are set back in the woods and they're quite private.

And so the neighbors, while they're upset clearly about the loss here, they didn't really know this family very well. But, Brooke, we are learning much more about them. Yvonne was the mother. Yvonne Selke was her name and she for 22 years worked for Booz Allen Hamilton, a defense contractor.

And they put out a statement earlier today saying that she was a wonderful co-worker and dedicated employee. She was traveling with her daughter. Her daughter, we're learning more about, Emily Selke, just an incredibly talented, intelligent and popular young woman. This young woman, we understand, graduated with a 4.0 from Woodbridge High School. She went on to Drexel University, graduated in 2013 with honors.

There was a sorority that she was a member of. They put out a statement on their Facebook page earlier today, the sorority Gamma Sigma Sigma Zeta chapter.

I want to read just a little bit of it for you. They said: "As a person and friend, Emily always put others before herself and cared deeply for all of those in her life."

We know that Emily also worked for a company called Carr Workplaces hospitality in Alexandria. They, too, put out a statement, saying that it was such a tough, tough time for all of them, as you can imagine the shock. And we should let you know that CNN reached out and spoke with Raymond Selke. He's the father, the husband of the deceased and the father of Emily.

And he said to CNN, he said to us, very upset, very distraught, as you can imagine. He is hoping for privacy for his family, but eventually they will have another family member who will represent them to talk a little bit more about who they are and why they were out there. But these were two individuals very close, mother-daughter team who were traveling together. Emily, we are learning through her LinkedIn page, loved cooking. She loved hiking and festivals, those kinds of things.

So it really is quite tragic and quite close when it hits right here in the community.

BALDWIN: Tragic all the way around. Suzanne Malveaux, thank you. Nic Robertson, my thanks to you as well.

Let me bring in our CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest, who is sitting here with me.

My goodness, where do you even begin? I guess let's start with what we have learned as far as the investigation and even most recently hearing from the CEO of both Germanwings and Lufthansa.

(CROSSTALK)

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BALDWIN: It sounds like they're very confident, not only do they now have this chip that was inside the cockpit voice recorder and have heard voices and sounds. They're also very confident they will find the flight data recorder.

Can we begin with cockpit voice recorder and what they will be listening for?

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: They're listening for the voices of what the two pilots were saying to each other, the captain and the first officer, not only during that 10-minute descent, but in the lead-up to it. Remember, those voice recorders take two hours' worth of audio. We know from the French BEA report...

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: ... press conference earlier, we know that the sound takes us up to the accident. So we will hear what the pilots were saying, or not if they were incapacitated. We will also hear any noises that were taking place in the cockpit, or the investigators will, and the alarms that were going off, any warnings.

All of that will be on the CVR, the cockpit voice recorder, because there's a microphone over the captain, there's a microphone with the first officer and there's two area mikes as well.

BALDWIN: Are there different sounds? Depending on what's wrong on any given airplane, do the sounds differ depending on what's happening?

[15:15:03] QUEST: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Really?

QUEST: Absolutely. So you might get a warning horn that will tell you one particular fault. There will be a warning chirp for another fault. There will be a siren for another fault.

If the flight management computer is warning of something, it will make a particular noise. If they have deployed the slats or the flaps for some reason, we don't know, you would hear the handles being moved and you would hear the motor starting, if the engines roared, if the engines cut.

So, they're very experienced. If you and I were just to stop speaking now and listen to the ambient noise, we might hear somebody typing, we hear some -- whatever it might be. And that's what they're listening for. If you look at the cockpit voice recorder transcripts, you see quite clearly brackets, open parenthesis, south of engines, close parenthesis, sound of door chime, sound of the thrust.

BALDWIN: What about -- we have heard a little bit about the experience of the pilot. I think it's something over 6,000 flight hours, he's been a pilot for 10 years. I haven't heard much about the co-pilot.

QUEST: The first officer, we haven't yet, no.

BALDWIN: Why is that?

QUEST: I don't think there's any reason.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: I don't think there's any reason. I think you have to constantly remember their first duty is to deal with the families. For instance, in that news conference, we heard stories about how there are people from Venezuela.

BALDWIN: Yes.

QUEST: Now you will be aware of course of the economic problems with Venezuela. Those family members haven't got the money to come from Venezuela to France.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: And the airline is having to provide, right...

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Which of course they're doing. And you heard him say that, absolutely. They're dealing with that first.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Right.

QUEST: At the same time, they have to get all the records of the aircraft, all the maintenance and all the electronics and of the crew. They're putting it all together for the investigation.

I have no doubt in the next day or so we will get a sheet of information, maybe not names, but he will know the details of co- pilot, we will know the details of first -- of the stewards and on the crew. It takes a little longer than perhaps we would like to get all that together in an accurate form. We're talking about the third American.

BALDWIN: Right.

QUEST: Now, look, this is a classic example of the time it takes. This was a flight from Barcelona to Dusseldorf. It had many nationalities, 18 of them. It had people coming who were back from holiday, those on business trips, those on connecting flights, two major European cities.

It will take time to say, that's where that person, have we notified the family, does that embassy know, are we ready to release the information?

BALDWIN: Taking their time, as they should.

(CROSSTALK)

QUEST: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's too important to rush a manifest out until you're sure it's accurate.

BALDWIN: Richard Quest, thank you very, very much.

Coming up here, more on our other breaking story here. We are moments away from hearing officially from Fort Bragg from an Army official on these charges now facing Bowe Bergdahl, including desertion. Live pictures here from North Carolina. We're standing by. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:28] BALDWIN: All right. Let's come up on these live pictures here.

This is Fort Bragg, North Carolina, as we are watching and waiting for a gentleman by the name of Colonel Daniel King, who is the public information officer there, to officially read a multiparagraph statement. That's it, no questions here, on the status of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl and these charges that will be brought before him.

Ed Lavandera is standing by. He's been following the story since really the get-go. And he's the one who broke these charges, got off the phone with his attorney, broke the charges at the top of the last hour.

Ed, just for people who are just tuning in, run through the charges that Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl will be facing.

LAVANDERA: Well, two very serious criminal charges, one of desertion and the other one misbehaving before the enemy. So these are two very serious criminal charges that Bowe Bergdahl faces. Remember, it was back in August, after Bowe Bergdahl had returned home and gone through a period of treatment and psychological counseling, that he met with investigators, Army investigators, along with his attorney, and, basically, from what we understand, gave his version of the events that led to him walking off the post in Eastern Afghanistan.

But this has been a timeline that has been long in the making, a saga that has lasted almost six years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The night Bowe Bergdahl disappeared from his post in the summer of 2009, he was 23 years old. The Army sergeant's gun, bulletproof vest and his night-vision goggles were all found in his bunk.

From that moment the U.S. military would spend almost five years looking for and negotiating for Bergdahl's release.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our commanders are sparing no effort to find this young soldier.

LAVANDERA: It's a saga that still isn't over for the soldier who is now 28 years old.

(on camera): When Bowe Bergdahl disappeared, he was stationed at a U.S. military outpost in Paktika province in Southeastern Afghanistan. He was supposed to be on a guard shift that night. This was his first deployment as a U.S. soldier, and he'd been in Afghanistan less than two months.

(voice-over): Other soldiers in his unit have described Bergdahl as a deserter and a traitor to his country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he just wanted to go on an adventure without having anybody to answer to, without having anything to worry about. He wanted to be able to go out and see Afghanistan for himself without the Army stopping him.

LAVANDERA: Bergdahl would end up in the hands of the Taliban. Intensive efforts to find Bergdahl in those early days of his disappearance failed. And before long, Bergdahl's captors would start showing off their prize capture in propaganda videos.

SGT. BOWE BERGDAHL, TALIBAN CAPTIVE: In fact, this is exactly why we are hated not only by the Afghans, but by many people in the world.

[15:25:09] LAVANDERA: The U.S. government believed Bergdahl was then passed around between Taliban captors and members of what's called the Haqqani Network, which would have taken him into Pakistan at some point.

For Bergdahl's mother and father in Idaho, these videos would be the only proof of life they'd see of their son. Frustrated by the slow progress in finding his son, Bob Bergdahl grew out his beard as a sign of solidarity with Bowe and started teaching himself to speak Pashto, the language of his captors.

Bob Bergdahl would later receive scathing criticism as a Taliban sympathizer for growing the beard.

BOB BERGDAHL, FATHER OF BOWE BERGDAHL: A father does not leave his son alone on the battlefield.

LAVANDERA: Then in May of last year, after several years of negotiating, the Obama administration agreed to release five Taliban prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay for Bowe Bergdahl. He was brought to this field in a remote area of Khost province and handed over the a U.S. special forces unit. One of the soldiers told Bowe Bergdahl on the chopper ride out, "We have been looking for you for a long time."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And, Brooke, interestingly enough, Bowe Bergdahl is currently 28 years old. He spent most of his 20s in the hands of the Taliban. And ironically enough he turns 29 this Saturday -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ed Lavandera, stay with me.

I have got two more voices I want to bring in, Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann, U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret and military adviser, and also I have David Rohde, CNN global affairs analyst, investigative reporter for Reuters who was also kidnapped and held by the Taliban in Pakistan for a number of months.

But, Colonel Mann, let me just begin with you actually here, because as we talk about desertion, this is as serious as you can get. You have to have proof that this individual left the base, left the platoon never, ever intending to return and a possible punishment -- again, we have to let the justice system run its course, but this could lead to death. How is this, the news of these two charges, how is this sitting with you, sir?

LT. COL. SCOTT MANN (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, you know, I'm just trying to apply the same restraint to it that I think most of our military men and women are trying to apply as well, which is to just let the system work itself out.

Obviously, these are really serious charges. And whether it's desertion or treason, any of those charges are extremely serious and they do affect morale. But I think the smart thing to do right now as this plays out, especially in light of like President Ghani being in the U.S. and other things, is just let the system work itself out, because it's a pretty fair process.

BALDWIN: David Rohde, I know that you're making note, too, everything we have learned about Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl even before he left his base there in Eastern Afghanistan. Talk to me a little bit about his behavior.

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: There are reports that he had maybe walked off the base at least once beforehand and there are some questions -- I mean, the charges suggest, first of all, that Bergdahl walked off the post and he should, you know, face those charges.

I don't think there's a possibility here that he will be maybe discharged from the Army, have his pay cut, but I think there's a small chance, very small chance that he will face jail time. He already spent five years in captivity. So I think let the process go, as the colonel mentioned, but I don't think he will face death.

And then there are questions about his behavior beforehand. Apparently, he walked off the base once. And there's some responsibility for the Army, for the commanding officers in his unit. Was he acting erratically? Why was he left there if he had -- he seemed unstable?

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr's with me now at the Pentagon.

And, Barbara, to David Rohde's point, can you take us back to -- it was June, it was summer of 2009 when reportedly he walked away. What were some of the members -- since this news has broken since, especially he's been swapped and has returned home, members of his platoon have definitely spoken out. What have they said about him?

STARR: Some of them have made the statements and the contention that some soldiers were killed in action while searching for Bergdahl and that they never would have been killed if they weren't out there looking for Bergdahl.

I have to tell you, the Pentagon says it's never been able to establish a direct link. Soldiers went on patrols that were scheduled. They were told Bergdahl's missing, keep your eyes open and sadly and tragically they lost their lives in combat. But the Pentagon says it could not establish a direct link to Bergdahl.

I want to go back to what David was just saying, because I think that one of the common themes that we have heard for months and we're certainly hearing today is that Bowe Bergdahl does need to be held accountable for his actions, but, again, let's say it doesn't get plea-bargained out. Let's say this goes to a full military trial.

There will be a lot of evidence, a lot of statements that could be very difficult for the Army to deal with before the American public. What was going on in that unit? How did the commander not know that he had a soldier who was possibly not fit for duty, who was planning to walk away?