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Germanwings Plane Deliberately Crashed; Building in Manhattan Currently on Fire; Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired March 26, 2015 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: We have just secured a picture of the cockpit from this exact plane that crashed. This was taken, would believe, near days ago. We'll dissect exactly what this picture shows us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:34:35] BALDWIN: We are just passed bottom of the hour. You are watching CNN special breaking coverage here of this plane, this Germanwings plane, the crash in the French Alps. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's pick up of what we know. It appears that this co-pilot brought this plane down, this plane intentionally, deliberately as the word what we are using here from the head of this airlines. Investigators are now piecing this together. They're saying that they know what happened, but they don't know the why. They're still trying to figure out why this co-pilot, this 28-year-old German national who had some 630 flight hours, deliberately crashed this jet as the plane made the final deadly descent. The pilot was locked out of the cockpit. A retired military pilot explains to CNN's Kyung Lah how that's even possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:22] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Either pilot left or right, co- pilot captain can detach it. It is in the arm -- excuse me, the normal position is the spring loaded. If was to unlock it, I unlock it. It unlocks the door. They can come in. But if the spring loaded back to norm. In the norm position, the door cannot be opened by the regular knob. You have to have either a key pad to open it or I have to unlock it.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The only way the pilot or co-pilot cannot get in then, in a modern plane with the keypad, is by someone purposely locking them out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holding it in the lock position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So we're going to pick up on that. Let's talk about this with David Soucie, a CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector and Les Abend, a CNN aviation analyst and a Boeing 777 captain. So gentlemen, welcome back. And if I may, let's go to the broader

picture. And let me just turn and show you this picture that we have here. This is a picture of the cockpit. This is the actual cockpit of the plane that went down in France.

Just quick back story, apparently, this aviation enthusiast who, you know obviously, was on planes often, he was on this precise plane as recent as Sunday. And the pilot at the time let him in the cockpit to take a picture. Apparently, he does this often. So this is the cockpit from the plane that went down.

So David Soucie, to you first. Couple of things. When we learned this co-pilot activated the descent, where would that happen?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: That's going to be right up here. So there's a couple of ways to do that. You can set the altitude to lower altitude and then execute that, activate that. And then it will go down to that altitude. While you do that, you can also change the rate of descent so it would have increase the rate of descent to 3500, let's say. If it was taking off on landing, you probably put that descend to about 18 -- Les could address that better. But at any rate, that's how that sounds right up there.

BALDWIN: Go ahead Les Abend. You want to jump in and explain that a little bit more.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, no. Dave is in the right area. It is, you know, it is a matter of choice what the pilot does. You set down the altitude and then you can either roll down the window to what you want your rate of descent to be or you can use terminology called flight level change. It will just automatically set up its own rate of change to that particular altitude. But something physically has to be done is the whole point.

BALDWIN: And that something physically that was done was done after the pilot had left.

SOUCIE: Exactly. So the pilot has left.

BALDWIN: The pilot is seated here.

SOUCIE: Co-pilot here.

BALDWIN: Co-pilot is there. Pilots over there.

SOUCIE: So the co-pilot is still sitting there. Pilot gets out. So now down here is the switch that we talked about.

BALDWIN: Right here.

SOUCIE: It is right where this little cell phone is covering that up. But in any rate, that is where the switch would be to unlock or lock the door like we just seen before in our previous piece. So that's what had to be held down, it was held down for three seconds. Then it can be released. But it stays in locked position for five minutes.

ABEND: If I may interrupt?

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Les.

SOUCIE: Sure, Les.

ABEND: Yes, Dave. In addition to what you just pointed out, the door can be manually locked also. We have that capability of doing a manual latch. So that could -- he could have very easily just get out of his seat, reached back and done that also.

BALDWIN: So there is a latch or handle, whatever you want to call it, that is from within the cockpit to exit the cockpit and to the rest of the plane. That does not exist on the other side of the door.

SOUCIE: Correct. So on this side of the door -- let's say I'm on the passenger side where everybody is seated and you're inside. You are going to be the one to latch the door. So if I try to get in, I'm not going to be to get in there. If you hit the lock, it is not going to open. In fact it won't open. I can't even put in the emergency thing until five minutes later. And then at that point, I can try again and try the emergency to get in there, it is still not going to let me in.

BALDWIN: But if I'm the co-pilot and if I'm inside this cockpit and I want to override and I don't want to let you back in my cockpit, I'm jamming down on this button constantly.

SOUCIE: Yes, exactly. Right. Well, within every five minutes. You can hold it and release it then five minutes later. It will release. You will have to hold it again every five minutes.

BALDWIN: Go ahead Les.

ABEND: And if I may Brooke. We would hear that on the cockpit voice recorder because -- and that would be very annoying process to have to constantly deny entry to the door. So I had a feeling this was manually latched assuming the co-pilot had this control. It just, you know, to constantly had to mash the button every five minutes. It would be inconvenience if this was -- his intent to fly in to a terrain.

[15:39:52] BALDWIN: And just quickly, are these very important details things that we will ultimately learn, not necessarily maybe from the cockpit voice recorder. But once they recover the flight data recorder?

SOUCIE: The flight data recorder wouldn't record that we know of right now because this was a retro fitted aircraft. It is not something that came with from the factory. It was something that was put in after 2003 or 2004 probably is when this was put in.

So, that's going to be a problem. The newer aircraft, it probably would be on the flight data recorder. But we are not going to have that benefit. It is interesting, too, because we're looking for reasons why this happened. Typically you get the flight data record their tells how things went, but it doesn't tell you why. And so, we get the cockpit voice recorder to find out why. Now, we have the cockpit voice recorder without flight data and we are still asking why. So it's terribly frustrating, I'm sure, for families and also the investigators trying to put this together for the families.

BALDWIN: David Soucie, thank you. Les Abend, thank you as well. To the point about the families and then the question of why here, grieving relatives are making their way to this area near the French crash site.

CNN's correspondent Karl Penhaul is there in France for us.

And Karl, I mean, you tell me how close, you know, you can possibly get obviously with respect to the families in keeping your distance. Have you seen the families arriving? What have they been allowed to do?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, in the course of the day, Brooke, especially in the course of this afternoon, that is when the families made their up to a village called (INAUDIBLE). That's just a little hamlet, about ten minutes from where we are now. And that is the closest point they can get are from the crash site.

Those relatives were brought into the city of (INAUDIBLE) from Dusseldorf and Barcelona early on. It has a lot of Spanish families, lots of German families. But in fact, over 15 nationalities represented on that passenger list among the dead. So many nationalities, many relatives from different countries arriving here today.

Now, at (INAUDIBLE) in that hamlet, they went into a field. They were kept about 200 yards of where you from the press for their own privacy. So they can begin this tough grieving process. And the point where they were at, were that wasn't bearing on the spot where that plane crashed. In fact, the plane crashed around four ridge lines away in a straight line as the crow flies. we are talking about three miles. It is three miles of tough, dangerous terrain. That's why they couldn't get right down there. They put a very moving ceremony, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Karl Penhaul, thank you.

And as we think about these families, we know on board that plane, a mother and daughter there remembered today by the people who love them. The daughter's best friends say she always lifted their spirits. What they want people to know about her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:55] BALDWIN: Want to come up on some breaking news here. I believe we do have some sort of photo to try to tell you about this major building collapse. And you can see the flames, the black plumes and smoke. This is downtown Manhattan. This is, if you are familiar with Manhattan, this is the east village. This is the east side of downtown. And approximately, let me just fill the glimpse, the location, Second Avenue and Saint Marks place. Again, this is from the FDNY fire department of New York, their

twitter account. They are labeling this as a major building collapse. And not only do you see these flames here. The spokesperson for the fire department is telling us that the building, it's mixed residential and business. And you can just see the presence of all these fire trucks here trying to put this thing out.

Also, I can tell you a law enforcement source tell CNN that there's several injuries reported and that there are possibly some who are trapped here inside this building. So, as soon as we get any more information here on this major mixed residential and business building in the east village of Manhattan, huge, huge scene, huge presence obviously. Emergency officials and fire department trying to get any people who could be in there. And that's really the question how many people were inside to try to get them who could have trapped out of there. As soon as we get information, we'll bring it to you on CNN.

Let's move along though, back to this story about this plane that's apparently deliberately gone down in the French Alps. It is tough to think about now, but the families of victims of this Germanwings crash, this plane, may be taking legal action at some place in time. How will the circumstances of this crash impact that?

I have pilot and aviation attorney Brian Alexander. He is back here with me.

So let me begin with this idea. If the co-pilot, and this is what we're hearing from the CEO of Lufthansa, that this was deliberate, that he deliberately took this plane down. What kind of responsibility would the airline have here?

BRIAN ALEXANDER, PILOT/AVIATION ATTORNEY: So this particular flight is governed by the Montreal convention because it's an international flight between two countries. And that it actually dictates provision for liability under the circumstances and damages as well. In other another word is compensation.

So in this case, if it is, as it appears, deliberate act by the pilot or co-pilot here, who is an agent of the airline, the airline will be completely responsible to pay all applicable damages to the families of the victims.

BALDWIN: According to the prosecutor, listening to him too this morning, he was talking about considering voluntary manslaughter charge. But with a dead co-pilot, how would they proceed?

ALEXANDER: Well, here again, you know, it's interesting. That's something that they tend to become involved with more in Europe. We've seen it a few times now where there is prosecutions along with what we might consider negligent or a greater level of misconduct trying to treat that a little more criminal context. Here, you know, they may look beyond if there was some reason to the pilot to see if there was knowledge in the hands of the airline that they might have need to react to.

But I think at this point, what you have is the prosecutor stating the obvious that this is an act of manslaughter if it was deliberate. That's a crime that needs to be prosecuted. And the fact that he is no longer here basically is something that's out there. It won't be meaningful unless there's evidence that leads to others perhaps being aware which could lead to other charges criminally.

[15:45:19] BALDWIN: I was reading something else you said, the families here, you know, 18 different nationalities which I have to imagine maybe complicates things, I don't know, but the families would be better off filing a class action lawsuit right here in the United States.

ALEXANDER: Well, I'm not so sure that that's an option.

BALDWIN: OK.

ALEXANDER: Necessarily. I think, you know, to the extent there were U.S. passengers under the treaty. They will have a right to bring their claims here in the United States.

BALDWIN: Why is it more (INAUDIBLE)?

ALEXANDER: Well, our system of justice is a little bit different from others in that we have a greater respect for and valuation of life in terms of our justice system and our tort system and most particularly how do we compensate for these types of tragedies. And people here who had absolutely nothing to do with the tragedy. So we have a system here that recognizes that, that someone is just trying to get from a to b. They are trying to get home with their family after a hard day's work or whatever it may be. And that is something has happened, accidental or otherwise, deliberate in this case, which compels a remedy. And behind that you have insurance that provides the remedy. So our system just values that more.

BALDWIN: All right, Brian Alexander, thank you very much.

I have got to go back to these pictures here. And now we have what I'm assuming, these are live pictures. This is in the east village. And this is just a different vantage point here of this building collapse.

Again, getting reporting from the fire department here in New York, this is a mixed residential business massive building here in downtown Manhattan. This is the east village. If you are familiar and specifically this is second avenue and St. Marks place. Some of the concerns obviously here for members of the fire department and anyone who would know anyone inside this building is how many people could still be inside and we lost that. Let's see if we can get a picture.

Miguel Marquez is buttoning up his jacket and joining me here on set to walk through whatever you know, pictures of people being, you know, taken away on stretchers. Do we have any idea, the building is mixed so residential and business?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a sushi restaurant at the bottom. There is a Palm free (ph) and French fry place down there as well. This was first reported though as a building collapse and it is quickly escalated into two buildings it appears that are on fire.

BALDWIN: Two buildings. MARQUEZ: Two buildings right next to each other at Second Avenue and

Seventh Street in Manhattan, the fire department saying that after the building collapsed, there may be individuals, who are now trapped in some of those buildings adjacent to it. It's a little hard to make out from there. But the other thing that we are seeing as this has escalated from a collapse to possibly an explosion and now a fire involving two buildings is it appears that the fire department is having a hard time getting water on to it as well. They have a ladder truck there but in watching pictures from WABC, one of our affiliates, you could see the ladder could only watch as those flames were shooting out of the tops of these two buildings on the -- in the east village of New York. You can see there clearly --

BALDWIN: Look at that, so they've got water here.

MARQUEZ: Now that ladder truck is shooting water directly into the building. They have a second ladder there now that is starting to get on the scene but for a good ten minutes, those ladders were literally only able to watch. Although it seems that our picture is changing because the ladder just went away. So I think that was a taped video. This looks to be live. And they have one ladder truck now that is standing back further. It is not clear whether that's because they are concerned about an explosion and injury to firefighters and at this point it's better just to let them -- let it burn.

BALDWIN: These are live pictures. I'm telling you. These are live pictures. And I think what's really striking into here is you can see this with me, Miguel. I mean. You know, I don't know if that's the first floor, it looks like there's maybe some stairs. Every single floor we are staring at is absolutely engulfed. You can see these bright orange flames.

So you are saying that it's not just one, two buildings, initially reported from FDNY via Twitter that it was a building collapse. You know, looking from the greater vantage point, I can count at least six, seven trucks who have deployed to this particular location in the east village, Second Avenue, St. Marks place in downtown Manhattan, trying to work this.

But again, I mean, these are incredibly difficult situations. I'm so mindful of these firefighters risking their lives to try to find those who could be trapped as that is priority number one, trying to determine how many could still be in the building to try to bring them to safety as this is both a residential and a business.

[15:54:55] MARQUEZ: Yes. And we know that there are injuries already. We have seen one, fire department saying there are injuries. Fire department concerned there may be people trapped in those buildings. It was hard to look at that and wonder how anybody might survive this at a point. But a lot of these buildings are very deep. And they have apartments that go all the way back. So they are probably working on the back side as well.

Fire department is saying that 30, more than 30, units have now responded to this particular location. And over 130 personnel now trying to fight this fire, getting those ladders up seems to be a big priority for them at the moment, because they have not, from earlier pictures, been able to get very close in and put water directly on to the tops of those buildings. Perhaps that's because a lot of those older roofs, there's years and years of oil and the roofing material that they use and the tar, and they burn extraordinarily hot and extraordinarily fast.

BALDWIN: Pre-war buildings, to your point about being incredibly, incredibly old. We can now confirm this was a five alarm explosion. Do we know, you guys get in my ear and tell me as well, have people reported hearing, did they hear an explosion?

MARQUEZ: Everything that we saw, and now you can see debris actually falling from the building as the firefighters put water on it trying to get closer and closer in. The power of those hoses is sometimes a problem in these buildings as well because if you have trapped people, you don't want to injure them inside if you're putting water directly on to the fire as well.

That the initial reports we saw from witnesses there on the ground was that there was an explosion and the initial pictures looked very much like an explosion. This is a very densely populated area of Manhattan, an area where there would have been a lot of people on the streets in those buildings, in those shops. Fortunately it is after lunch. The biggest shop in that area seems to be a sushi restaurant and it's well after lunchtime. So you probably wouldn't have that many people in there but there are the shops and apartments are packed in very, very densely in that area.

BALDWIN: Five alarm explosion, massive presence of New York fire department on the scene. Building collapse, fears of people being trapped. I have been told seven, now I'm being told seven alarm, seven alarm. Do we have the producer on the phone, guys?

Shimon, can you hear me?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN PRODUCER (via phone): Yes, I can hear. Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Hey, Shimon. Can you just go ahead and tell me what you know?

PROKUPECZ: All right. Basically right now, the police are there, as you know, and the fire department. And just to, you know, sort of this pop right now, just not to appear, you know, like any kind of terrorism related or any sort of criminal act. It appears to be, right now the leading theory is this is a gas explosion. There's a restaurant on the first floor of this building and it's called a mixed occupancy. There's residences and there's businesses.

At this point they think it was a gas explosion that sort of started it. The latest numbers on injured is about 30. They expect that to climb. There are possibly firefighters they couldn't locate but I don't know where that stands now. And so right now at this point they are just trying to contain the fire and try to figure out if anyone inside the building is trapped, injured. As the pictures have shown it's a pretty fierce fire. It's hard for them to get inside and figure out exactly who's inside and who may be missing and who may be hurt.

BALDWIN: Alright, Shimon, stay with me. And Miguel's got new information on firefighters.

MARQUEZ: Well, Shimon, I'm curious if you're hearing anything about firefighters who may have rushed in there and they themselves may have been trapped.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. There was some reports of firefighters that may have been missing or they couldn't get in touch with them. That was early on. Then they found a firefighter. There was some additional reports of other firefighters possibly being, that they couldn't locate, but I don't know where that stands right now.

MARQUEZ: Yes. We were able to see live pictures earlier of a large team of firefighters come sort of stumbling out of that building as the fire really took off on them. It was the explosion, it seemed to be mostly smoke and seemed to be under control, and then this conflagration.

BALDWIN: And this is the thing, just a little perspective for people, I live in New York, I live above a restaurant, I live in a pre-war building that looks similar to this. That's a thing, a lot of these downtown buildings, you know, you have the restaurant on the first floor. If you are hearing Shimon say possible reports of a gas explosion and you are hearing what this restaurant on the bottom, maybe that was the genesis, we just don't know.

But look at the smoke here. I mean, this is just incredible. Smoke plumes high, high above this building, this mixed residential/business building in downtown Manhattan. Seven alarm fired here.

Stay with us here on CNN. We are going to continue covering this. And obviously, the latest on the investigation in the plane that has gone down deliberately according to the CEO of Lufthansa.

Much, much going on, on this Thursday. Stay with me. John Berman is in for Jake Tapper. "The LEAD" starts right now.