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New Clues about Co-pilot's Hidden Illness; Lufthansa Adopts New Rules; Two More Crash Victims Identified. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Anderson Cooper. Welcome to the viewers in the United States and around the world. We begin this hour in Germany where a police search has turned up new evidence, torn up medical records. They show that the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, was hiding a medical condition from his employer and should have been on medical leave. Worse yet, he never should have been in the cockpit on the day he intentionally slammed the Germanwings airliner into the French Alps. The exact nature of the medical illness has not been made clear by authorities.

[10:00:02] Also new this morning. Germanwings' parent company makes it official immediately adopting new rules that may have prevented this tragedy. As of now all its airlines will require two people to be in the cockpit at all times.

A new mandate obviously because Lubitz seized control of the flight when pilot left to use the bathroom and there was no one else present in the cockpit.

Let's get the latest on these details that had been unfolding throughout the morning. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Cologne, Germany -- Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. Yes, there's a lot of information that we've been getting and most of it as you said comes from the public prosecutor in the town of Dusseldorf, and the essential thing that he's saying is that there is evidence now that Andreas Lubitz was hiding an illness from an employer, that he was hiding that illness from the employer for a very long time, and that he was doing it on the day that he was flying that aircraft as well.

It was interesting because they said that they searched two properties belonging to Lubitz. One is -- he's in his parent's home in the town of Montabaur. The other is an apartment in Dusseldorf, and from all the indications that we're getting is that the relevant medical information was found in the apartment in Dusseldorf, and there they say they found several torn-up sick notes that he's been written from a doctor.

So a doctor had issued notes to him, had issued a verdict to him that he was unfit to go to work, unfit to fly. He tore those up. He tried to get rid of those and therefore he tried to hide the illness from his employer.

It's a significant development. The statement by the prosecutor isn't one that's very long but it is one that by the standards of German law enforcement bodies is very, very blunt in his language -- Anderson.

COOPER: You know, there are German privacy laws, medical privacy laws that -- which is one reason why authorities have not gone into greater detail about what the illness was. Do we expect them at some point in the near future or in the future to go into the greater detail to actually outline what the medical issue was?

PLEITGEN: I believe that they will. I believe they are going to at least outline whether or not this was a mental issue that this man had or whether this was some sort of physical issue that he might have had, because of course there's going to be questions coming forward, people are going to want to know about this, and despite the privacy laws there are obviously certain things that the authorities can disclose.

However, one of the things that the prosecutor said in his note as well in the press release was that of course the new information that they've gotten has also gotten the authorities to question a lot of people. So they are in the process of gathering more information, of speaking, for instance, to Lubitz's relatives, most probably his parents, his brother. These are the people that he lived with in the town of Montabaur.

Also looking at other people that he might have known, friends that he might have had. People from work that he might have been close to, to see whether or not they might have known that something was wrong with him. To see whether or not he might have told them something to see whether or not he might have been acting strangely at certain times or might have had issues that they might have observed.

So there is still a lot of investigating that the authorities want to do and that might be one of the reasons why they've not come out yet and said exactly what the illness is or was that he was suffering from -- Anderson.

COOPER: And we know that back in 2008, he had taken a break from the pilot training course. Do we know if that was related to this illness? Do we have any information about how long this illness may have been a factor?

PLEITGEN: It's a very good question, and it's one that I asked the chief executive officer of Lufthansa yesterday. What that break was like. He went into pilot training in 2008 and at some point along the way he took a break of several months within that pilot training. But there has been some speculation here in Germany -- the media as well, that perhaps he might have had to take that break due to some sort of mental problem, due to some form of depression maybe.

That has not been corroborated or confirmed by the authorities here, so it is very much unclear. Also unclear how long he was suffering from that illness whether or not we're talking about a matter of years, whether or not we're talking about a matter of months. The only thing that the authorities will say was that he was suffering from this for quite a while, and that he had been in constant medical care. So he had been seeing a doctor about all of this, so that's the information that we have at this point.

Also a big question is whether or not he might have had some of issues, some sort of depression, some mental issue that maybe he thought he had under control, that maybe he's gotten treatment for this, maybe he felt that he had this under control. I mean, keep in mind he was by all accounts of the airline and this is something that they said 100 percent clear to fly. They said he never showed any anomalies in his flying performance, so it seems to be this is something that at least he was able to suppress for quite a while -- Anderson.

COOPER: The other question, I guess, I have and perhaps we don't know the answer is, the medical personnel he was seeing, was that on a company insurance program? Was that something that his employer would have been aware of if they had checked his records?

PLEITGEN: Yes.

COOPER: Or was this a doctor he had on the side because he didn't want his employer to know about it?

[10:05:16] PLEITGEN: Well, you know, in this country, most probably it would have been under some sort of public health insurance policy, so it would have been his own health insurance policy. There's very few people here in this country that have full private insurance, and so it could very well be that he would have seen a doctor and not told his employer about it.

And that the employer would not had access to the doctor, because there is that confidentiality relationship between the patient and the doctor here in this country. That means that the doctor would not necessarily have disclosed the information to his employer, to Germanwings. Certainly this is something that would have been expected of the employee, but it is very much possible that he would have been seeing a doctor, that he would not have told his employer about it, that the employer would have no way of finding out about all of this.

And that the doctor apparently issued him these sick leave notes, and that he just simply did not hand these on. That the doctor said I don't think that you are capable of performing at your job. And keep in mind this man is a pilot so that means by this doctor's decree this man was not fit to fly, and he simply destroyed those notices -- Anderson.

COOPER: Fred Pleitgen, appreciate the update and information.

Investigators say that the co-pilot took clearly advantage of the moment when the pilot left the cockpit. Now leaving Lubitz is the only in control of that flight. Lufthansa, as I've said, now implementing major changes requiring two people in the cockpit at all times on their flights.

I want to bring in CNN's aviation and government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh.

Obviously this is a major change from Lufthansa -- we've already seen a number of other airlines in Europe making this change as well.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Anderson. You know, many of these carriers worldwide, they are moving -- and they are moving quickly essentially to reassure travelers. So what we've seen is Lufthansa who you just mentioned, and they have now moved and changed their rule so that they are always two people in the cockpit. Of course that is the parent company of Germanwings.

But we've seen many others moving quickly to do the same. Canada also requiring that their carriers do that, all German airlines taking the same move. In the UK, they say that they are approaching and talking to carriers for them to review their policies, but we saw just within a matter of hours many of these carriers coming out and saying we are, effective immediately, changing our policy and that we will never have just one person in the cockpit,.

Some of those carriers you really be out front with this issue, Easy Jet, Virgin, Atlantic just this morning announcing they'll do that Norwegian Air and as well as air Canada and Emirates. As you know here in the United States, that was already a policy, it was a policy that went into place after September 11th, the way it works here is usually at around cruising altitude co-pilot or the pilot will leave the cockpit, and that is perfectly fine and perfectly normal. That's usually when the work load is a lot less but at that point here in the United States, the work load is a lot less.

But at that point here in the United States, a flight attendant or a trusted crew member would take the place, and now we are seeing very quickly other carriers are following suit -- Anderson.

COOPER: And the authorities, Rene, have not said what the medical illness was of this co-pilot. If it was a mental issue, if it was something like depression, I'm wondering, I think, a lot of viewers are wondering, if a pilot is diagnosed with depression in the United States, is he or she allowed to fly? How is that -- how is that determined? Do we know?

MARSH: Well, it used to be that if you suffered from depression or you were on medication for depression here in the United States, and you are a pilot, you were not allowed to fly, however, the FAA has changed that, that is no longer the case. So if you are a pilot here in the U.S., you tell your doctor you're suffering from depression, and you are now on anti-depressants, you are still able to fly. But here is what the rule is. You cannot fly for a year, essentially you are grounded.

What they want to do is have your doctor observe you, see how you react to the treatment. So during that one-year period that pilot is not allowed to fly. If the doctor determines that you are handling the treatment well, there are no risky side effects, then the pilot is allowed to return to the cockpit and fly. But they make very clear there are only certain antidepressants that they will allow a pilot to fly and also be taking that medication. So they're very particular about which medication is allowed.

COOPER: Rene Marsh, appreciate the update. Thank you very much.

We have new sound from the prosecutor in Germany. I'm told this is in English. Let's listen in.

[10:10:01]

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CHRISTOPH KUMPA, GERMAN PROSECUTOR: We have found documents of medical content that indicate an illness and we have found document that indicate that was -- that he had gone to medical doctors concerning the illness.

We have found a letter that indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work, that were found trashed in the dustbin, so we have reason to believe he hid his illness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: The prosecutor is saying that the co-pilot had hid his illness, had torn up a note from the doctor.

Brian Todd is in Washington with a look at how pilots are actually screened. That obviously is going to be a big question moving forward the screening that this co-pilot had, and the screening that other pilots have -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, it will, Anderson. You know, the Lufthansa CEO says he's, quote, "speechless and shocked," That the co-pilot could have done this deliberately, but this morning our investigation finds that the as far as at least psychological screening for pilots, that in Europe, the U.S. and elsewhere, it's random and unreliable.

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TODD (voice-over): Lufthansa CEO says there'd been no sign of mental instability with co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, that the 287-year-old had passed the psychological exam when he was hired. After that --

CARSTEN SPOHR, LUFTHANSA AIRLINES CEO (Through Translator): Once a year we have a medical test. There are no further tests that are expressly psychological. Now airlines are under fire for what critics say are dangerous gaps in the system.

Current and former pilots tell us the level of psychological screening for pilots around the world is random and often depends on the airline. Commercial pilot Les Abend says his airline grilled him on his personality.

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Do you like your mother, do you hate your mother? Do you like your father, do you hate -- do you abuse small animals? TODD: Abend says tome airlines interview with pilot's friends to see

if they've got psychological or emotional issues. But government regulations are not as strict. The FAA says pilots can't fly if they've got bipolar disorder or similar problems. FAA rules say pilots have to undergo a medical exam every year or six months.

Abend says those exams don't place a heavy emphasis on psychological screening. Forensic psychiatrist Lise Van Susteren says that doesn't cut it.

(On camera): If the screening is merely adequate and they are lumping psychological screening in with medical screening, is it possible for the person to dupe the screener?

LISE VAN SUSTEREN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: It's absolutely possible. Most psychological evaluations are simply checklists and a person will answer and the evaluator will look down to mark it on his paper, never looking to see what kind of body language maybe the person withdraws or does something that gives you a clue that there is some sort of stress or anxiety in answering the question.

TODD (voice-over): Another problem? Pilots say the airlines don't check periodically to see if something's come up in a pilot's personal life that may lead to a psychological breakdown, like a marital or financial issue. And they are not required to check for that. It's up to a pilot to self-report.

(On camera): If he or she doesn't self-report, what happens?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't self-report, it's -- really it's going unnoticed. Typically, what happens is if you have an issue, one of your crew members might recognize something like that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: The FAA did not respond to our questions about the criticism of that system. Some current and former pilots argue that the rules don't need to be tightened that the vast majority of pilots are mentally stable, and that that the self-reporting declines work. But critics are saying there is still dangerous gaps in the system but out of fear of losing their careers pilots are not going to self-report psychological issues, or if they do seek some treatment, they will not tell their the bosses.

Anderson, that may be the case of what happened with the co-pilot Andreas Lubitz.

COOPER: Especially, I mean, Rene Marsh was reporting before, sometimes a pilot will have to take a year off if they're found to have depression or something.

TODD: Right.

COOPER: That's obviously a major blow to a pilot's career and raises questions about whether the pilot really feel comfortable coming forward. TODD: That's right. And you know, these pilots understand fully that

their airline could make the independent decision to pull those certificate and not let them fly with some of these issues.

And also, Anderson, the pilots might complain that if all this probing is done into their personal lives to see if there some issue has come up, like a marital problem or financial problem, that that's an invasion of privacy, so that is creeping into this debate as well.

COOPER: A difficult situation for all.

Brian, thanks very much. Brian Todd.

Now still to come, an emotional journey for the families of Germanwings victims as residents of the French village near the crash site open their homes. We'll take you there after the break.

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[10:18:39] COOPER: This just into CNN. We want to take you know to New York City's Lower East Side where two people are missing following that huge explosion that leveled a building.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is on the scene.

Miguel, what do we know?

Miguel, it's Anderson, you're on the air. Can you hear me?

Obviously, we're having trouble getting in touch with Miguel. We'll try to contact him again. We're going to take a short break.

Coming up, we have new information about Bowe Bergdahl, about why he actually left the base. We'll talk to our Barbara Starr about that.

We'll also have more on the crash of Flight 9525, what we're learning now about the co-pilot and a new change in Lufthansa policy saying that they now will mandate that two people have to be in the cockpit at all times. We will be right back.

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[10:23:03] COOPER: Well, today more relatives and friends of those aboard Germanwings Flight 9525 are expected to arrive in France. Now as they prepare to travel to the site where their loved ones died, Lufthansa is providing special flights to the area while Germanwings has set up a family assistance center in the French city of Marseilles.

CNN's Erin McLaughlin joins me now from Vernay, France, where a farewell ceremony was held -- Erin.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson. That's right. I was at a memorial site not far from here just a short while ago families were still coming in to lay flowers and remember their loved ones really struggling to understand how this tragedy could have happened.

Meanwhile, the recovery operation is under way still here. There is an all-out effort going on here in the French Alps. All day we've been seeing choppers overhead flying to the crash site. It's a low and painstaking process.

New video from that crash site really shows the challenges that the investigators are facing on site. The terrain is treacherous and steep, very icy, the debris heavily fragmented, spread across hundreds of meters, and the security is a concern there. The investigators having to be tethered to either a police officer or a firefighter or a mountaineering expert to ensure their safety.

And the focus right now for them is this human remains. The process has begun of airlifting the human remains out of the site, they're bringing them to a nearby center. And at the center, the all- important body identification process is under way with DNA analysis, investigators saying that the analysis could take weeks, and they are not going to be returning the bodies to the that that analysis could take weeks and then they're not going to be returning the bodies to the families until that process is complete.

So it looks like there could be a long and agonizing wait for these families ahead -- Anderson.

[10:25:06] COOPER: Obviously making DNA matches given the condition of many at the crash site. It's got to be an incredibly difficult process.

Erin McLaughlin, appreciate the reporting.

I want to bring in our panel this morning. CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen and CNN law enforcement analyst former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes.

So, Tom, we are now starting to learn a little bit about some of the information the prosecutors now have as a result of the investigation, but at this stage, the investigation is nowhere near over.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Oh, no, it's a long way to go, Anderson, but I think we're going to learn more pretty soon about the medical condition of Lubitz because, you know, we have the German prosecutor, but don't forget they turned over many documents to the French prosecutor who is leading the investigation in Marseille, France.

So that and when investigators go and question the family members and friends and neighbors and colleagues, often just the questioning itself leads them to believe what the investigators have in mind, what they're looking for in terms of the medical condition of Lubitz, so I think we'll probably get verification pretty soon about what the condition was.

COOPER: And Fred Pleitgen, the -- are investigators still on the scene, at the family's house, at his apartment in Dusseldorf? PLEITGEN: Well, the family's house and the apartment in Dusseldorf

are both cordoned off, so investigators will still be there. However, most of the operations where they confiscated the information took place last night or finished up last night. That's what the public prosecutor who put out that statement about the medical condition of Lubitz said in that statement. They said that all of this came from those raids that took place where a lot of the documents were seized, where of course they said they didn't find anything like a good -- like a note saying or announcing this.

But they did find those medical records by all accounts that we're getting. Those medical records were found inside the apartment in Dusseldorf. But of course, because all of this is treated as a crime, and it says so in the public prosecutor's statement as well, they said that at the time of the crime, he was not fit to fly.

This is a crime scene and so therefore, it is still cordoned off. There will still be a police on the scene there. Of course there were still be people going in and out of both the apartment as well as the house of the family as well as they try to gather additional information presumably when they found these medical records, they would have been stated pretty clearly what condition he was suffering from.

But it would appear that when they questioned the doctor, for instance, or the family members, they will try to see whether or not this was some sort of condition that he might have had, that he was able to suppress for quite a while, because remember that Lufthansa did tell us that they deemed him 100 percent deemed fit to fly, and they felt that in his flying performance, there never were any issues that turned up.

So maybe he was able to suppress this medical condition or maybe this was something that he was having a lot of trouble suppressing so those are all -- that's all information that they'll be trying to get, I think before we'll hear more about what this medical condition actually is but that could also still happen in a very short period of time -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Tom, I've been getting a lot of questions from viewers' tweets, from viewers saying, does a doctor or anybody who knows this person, if they are aware of a medical condition, depression or something, a serious medical condition that would make it difficult for him to fly, is there a legal obligation for them to inform authorities, I'm not -- I don't know what the laws are in Germany, but certainly interviewing doctors, interviewing all those people who had any contact with him, that will be a major focus of the investigation right now?

FUENTES: Yes, I don't know the answer to that either, Anderson, and as Fred had mentioned earlier in his reports, you know, if he was going to his own doctor under the medical system in Germany rather than a company doctor, you know, we don't believe that he was under an obligation to notify them.

My question now would be that the doctor -- this has to be the biggest story in Germany since the crash. The doctor would have to have been aware of the reporting that his patient just crashed a plane, and if he was treating him for some condition, my question is whether that doctor went to the authorities at that time and said, my patient confidentiality requirements have just ended on a mountaintop in France.

COOPER: A lot to learn, probably, as you said, Tom, getting more information in the coming hours and days.

Tom Fuentes, appreciate it. Fred Pleitgen as well.

We'll be right back and our coverage continues.

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