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Sources: Co-Pilot Passed Flight Physical; Saudi-Led Coalition Troops Could be in Yemen Soon; Interview with Congressman Ed Royce of California; Army to Decide on Bergdahl Case; Germwanwings Co-pilot Suffers from Mental Illness. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 28, 2015 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[19:00:17] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow, joining you from New York.

I want to welcome our viewers both here in the United States and around the world.

We begin with our top story: the tragic plane crash of Flight 9525. And today, we have heard from the father of the man officials believe deliberately killed himself along with 149 other people. The co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525 that crashed into the French Alps.

The family of Andreas Lubitz traveling to the crash site, meeting with officials describe the co-pilot's father as completely devastated and as a man who feels responsible in part for this tragedy. German authorities are sharply focused on who cleared Andreas Lubitz physically and mentally to fly.

An aviation official tells us he passed his flight physical last summer. But unnamed sources tell "The Wall Street Journal" and "The New York Times" that the co-pilot was hiding a mental illness from his bosses.

Also at a cathedral in a French town near the crash site, church leaders paid tribute to the victims, 150 people on board that Airbus 320.

Will Ripley joins me from Cologne, Germany, the headquarters of Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings.

And, Will, I know you have new information coming out about what investigators have found inside Andreas Lubitz's apartment. What can you tell us?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There are several reports that are coming out right now, Poppy. A prominent German newspaper "Bild am Sonntag" coming out with a startling revelation that investigators found evidence of severe psychological problems, including medications to treat those psychological problems in the apartment of the 27-year- old co-pilot Andreas Lubitz.

Now, specifically, according to "The New York Times," these were antidepressant medications. And we saw yesterday when we were out at the apartment, investigators on several occasions going in, gathering evidence, and coming back out. Apparently, those investigators or people close to the investigation are leaking information to these newspapers because officially this information has not been released.

But the discovery of prescription drugs, possibly antidepressants, in this apartment, of course, is significant because it continues to build this case that this young man, this co-pilot was suffering from a mental instability, was being treated, according to the newspaper, by neurologists, by psychologists and perhaps that may also have something to do with the medical documents that were found ripped up and thrown in the trash can in his apartment, information that apparently Lubitz was hiding from his employer, Lufthansa, Poppy.

HARLOW: I'm wondering what if anything Lufthansa is saying about Lubitz and how fit, indeed, he was to fly, because I know the chief executive a few days ago said that he passed all the relevant tests with flying colors, and they had no indication that anything could be amiss.

RIPLEY: Yes, and that has been echoed by our reporting on the ground here. Pam Brown speaking close to people like this, getting refraction Lufthansa as well, saying all of this comes as a surprise to them. They were unaware of this was going on. Again, aside from the pilot's annual physical exam, any other conditions including psychological, the airline policy is the pilot must self-report.

And in this case, it is believed Lubitz did not do that. He didn't know his employer know he was experiencing problems, psychological, physical, or otherwise, because there were also that new reports from "New York Times" that Lubitz was diagnosed with some sort of a vision problem, a problem which could have potentially ended his flying career -- something important to him, something he dreamed about as a teenager. So, if you couple the psychological problems with this possible physical ailment, you can see investigators build this case to figure out a potential motive.

One other thing they did not find, though, in his apartment, no indication of addiction to drugs or alcohol, also no suicide or any indications of radical political views. So, this medical and psychological is what the focus is on right now here in Germany, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. Keep in mind, that according to some of the German sources telling our Pamela Brown that he had passed his physical back in the summer of 2014, one would assume that physical includes a vision test, and apparently he passed. So, we'll keep digging into that.

Will Ripley, thank you very much.

And while officials try to learn everything they can about the co- pilot, search crews in the French Alps still have not found that critical flight data recorder. They are recovering victims' bodies, remain, anything they can for their family members.

[19:05:05] Our Nic Robertson joins us from there. Good evening, Nic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Each day begins here, helicopters lifting off. Local rescue pilot David Hurault among them, Friday particularly tough.

DAVID HURAULT, SEARCH & RESCUE HELICOPTER PILOT: The winds was always turning inside so, sometimes this way, sometimes this way, and for us, it was very difficult and the meshing, we are always in very, very closely knit.

ROBERTSON: Lives are in his hands, luring recovery teams to the crash site.

HURAULT: In the closed crews area, very, very close from the mountains. It's a very short place, so it's quite difficult for us.

ROBERTSON: As the teams make their gruesome discoveries, locate the victim, he comes back, lifting literally swinging them homeward.

HURAULT: I don't want to focus on the possible victims I see on the floor. So I'm proud because I know I will bring back bodies to the family and I think it's very important. It's my duty.

ROBERTSON (on camera): From the mountains, the bodies are brought here to a mobile forensics lab for biometric and DNA testing. All of this happening in a remote and small Alpine village.

(voice-over): And here they have opened their hearts, touched by the tragedy that is unfolding around them. People at the nearby villages gathering for a service at the new memorial to the crash victims.

David, the helicopter pilot, and his community, are still in shock.

HURAULT: We can't imagine it was a very big plane, A320. They were flying over the place. You can see millions, millions of feet of pieces of the airplanes, and that's all. We can't recognize anything.

ROBERTSON: Each day ends with the helicopter's safe return. Normality for everyone here is still a long way off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nic Robertson joins me live now from really the base area where those search and recovery teams are leaving from every day.

Nic, I know they're trying to build a road to make it easier for them to access the victims' remains, especially given weather conditions and how perilous the search and recovery effort has been. What do we know about that?

ROBERTSON: Yes, Poppy. Really, we talk here about the way the community is opening its heart, while in the small village where that memorial is built, the mayor of the village with the council decided that one of the ways they can help not just with the recovery effort but help with the families because he's meeting the families coming to the village to see the memorial and be close to the crash site, so he's meeting these grieving people and he realized the best way they can help them in the village is to get them as close as possible to the crash site.

So, that's what he said the villagers are going to do now. They've agreed to spend the money to build a road to get -- you know, to connect the village to the crash site. And he says he hopes once the recovery effort is finished and that crash site is cleared then family members will be able to come and visit and maybe just help them a little bit with closure here, Poppy.

HARLOW: Nic Robertson, thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate it. Thank you for your report. We'll get back to you as we learn more.

I want to bring in our panel to discuss this. CNN aviation analyst with me, Richard Quest, clinical and forensic psychologist Jeff Gardere is with us, and 777 captain and CNN aviation analyst Les Abend as well. Miles O'Brien, a pilot and CNN aviation analyst, joins me as well.

Let me begin with you, Jeff, because we just got this news in to CNN from a highly regarded German newspaper saying that Lubitz, the co- pilot, suffered from a severe psychosomatic illness and that during their search of his apartment, police investigators seized several prescription drugs to treat this psychological illness. This paper is also reporting that Lubitz suffered from severe subjective burnout syndrome and severe depression.

Look, we don't know what the drugs were that were found. And frankly we don't know if he was taking them at the time, but what do you make of this information we're just getting in?

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it tells us what we first thought, that of course there was an issue with mental illness to do something so horrific, something so violent as we've seen perhaps with some of the school shooters. This is very similar in that way. Certainly, there is depression there. Certainly, I am surprised about the psychosomatic illness.

What we're talking about is someone who in some ways had manifested their own illness but that is based on stress, it's based on anxiety, it's based on psychosomatic illness. What we're talking about is someone who in some ways had manifested their own illness, but that is based on stress, it's based on anxiety, it's based on the depression, and exhaustion.

[19:10:11] So, this was someone who I thought, and we talked about this offline, who was very fragile emotionally and pushed over the edge could do something really horrific.

HARLOW: Miles, we know that during his pilot training, Lubitz took a break back in 2009, and the German newspaper "Bild" is reporting that he suffered, quote, "a serious depressive episode around that time." Miles, as a pilot and aviation expert, if that's the case, should he have been allowed back into the program to finish the training?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: In a word, no. It -- there were all kinds of signs that this is a person who shouldn't be entrusted with the lives of others in that context. But there's kind of this "don't ask, don't tell" scenario, which exists in airlines. Airlines do put people through psychological testing when they hire them. But after that, they really don't want to hear about it unless you self- report.

And in the climate of adversarial -- the adversarial nature between management and pilots, the mistrust that exists between both entities, pilots are loathe to self-report because they're not certain they'll be taken care of. As a matter of fact, to the contrary, they self- report, they know they're probably going to end their careers. So, there's the catch-22.

What we need is proper psychological screening, ongoing, for the extent that pilots are active in their careers.

HARLOW: But I think in part, Miles, to address that -- and, Les, I want you to weigh in as a pilot, the FAA passed a law in 2010 saying, look, pilots that are battling depression aren't just not going to be allowed to fly, they can take up to a certain amount of medication to treat depression like millions of Americans have, and they can continue doing their job.

So, where's the line?

LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I mean, first of all, they have to be taking that medication for a certain period of time before the FAA will put them back on flight status. Where do you draw the line? It's an evaluation by a psychologist at that point.

You know, I agree with pretty much most of what Miles is saying. The contentious nature I think when you have a pilot that has a problem, especially one that's been employed for quite some time, the airline and the union are going to work together to try to get them some help. Of course, if it comes to light, it's -- you know, "don't ask, don't tell" situation, I agree to some extent.

HARLOW: That's really problematic.

ABEND: It can be. But we have a support system that we can get help, get this pilot off of flight status. I've been trained in critical instance and stress management, which mostly mitigates posttraumatic stress disorder, that being said, I have recommended to our supervisors, our chief pilots and said, listen, we should haven't them go to work today and let's let them work out the problem.

HARLOW: Richard, you've been speaking with pilots and chief executives of airlines. For some critics, as Miles points out, the airlines just test them than hire them, then don't want to hear about it. Is that the read you're getting? QUEST: No, it's not. It's not they don't want to hear about it. No

chief executive, no chief medical officer wants to lose an aircraft and passengers. So, it's not a situation of shutting my eyes to it. I'm guessing that nobody really thought it was ever going to come to something like this in that scenario.

There's never been the dramatic need that the last week has shown for this. Yes, there's an element of self-reporting that has to take place. And, yes, medical examiners in the United States, there's this last question on the form, have you consulted a medical adviser or the exact phraseology of it.

So, there are avenues to it. But to your substantive point, should you sit down and have a psychological appraisal every six months? No.

HARLOW: No.

QUEST: That's the -- the feeling is that's not been necessary.

HARLOW: Miles, final word on that. Do you agree that it is only necessary to have a physical examination every six months to one year, or should psychological evaluations come right along with that?

O'BRIEN: I think of course that should be part of the exam, of course. The health of the mind is part of the picture. We've gotten away with it far long time because aviation had basically pilots checked on each other.

But when you have really green pilots, low-time pilots coming into these low-cost carriers, there's no opportunity to evaluate that person. They are unknown quantities, and so that check and balance that occurred just sort of the peer review is not able to come into play.

[09:15:04] So, there would have to be other ways to root these people out.

HARLOW: Really quickly, Richard.

QUEST: The problem here, Miles, is, yes, you may be right in a perfect world, but who's going to do that appraisal on that psychological aspect? You're going to have to have a professional psychologist or somebody trained in that aspect to do it. And more than that --

ABEND: And why not?

QUEST: Well, and --

O'BRIEN: So, what's the matter with that? What's the matter with that, Richard?

(CROSSTALK)

GARDERE: You have a psychologist do the mental health. We should be doing that not just for pilots but anyone who has such a position of responsibility including police officers. HARLOW: Gentlemen, hold that thought. We'll be back with our panel in

a moment.

Miles, we'll be back in a moment. Quick break. Much more on the crash of Flight 9525 ahead.

Also, this huge unrest in Yemen that continues -- fears of a wider war. We're going to talk about this as Yemen's foreign minister tells CNN the Saudi-led troops, ground troops could be in the country of Yemen within days. The details, next.

But, first, this -- throughout the hour we will be remembering the victims of Germanwings Flight 9525, including Australian nurse Carol Friday and her 29-year-old son, Greg. The two were on a European vacation together. Greg dreamed of finding a job teaching in France. Carol celebrated her 68th birthday on Monday, the day before she died in that crash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The situation in Yemen is getting worse by the day. Yemen's foreign minister telling CNN he believes Saudi-lead coalition troops could be in Yemen within days. We're talking about ground troops after those Saudi airstrikes in Yemen.

Also, a senior diplomat in the country's says there are reports of looting and executions in the street in Sana'a, the capital of Yemen. This as the president of Yemen is spending the day in Egypt with the Arab League after being deposed from his own country, pleading with his Arab League counterparts to help him regain control of Yemen.

We have also learned the majority of United Nations humanitarian workers who were on the ground trying to help the situation in Yemen, they, too, have now been evacuated. Meantime, Saudi Arabia continuing to bombard the Houthi rebels in Yemen with those airstrikes -- the rebel fighters, the Houthis that just pushed the president out of Yemen.

[19:20:06] Let me bring in Congressman Ed Royce, California Republican, chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.

Thank you for being here.

I want to get right to that most recent news in to us here at CNN, that according to Yemen's foreign minister, Saudi-led coalition troops, ground troops, could be on the ground in Yemen within days.

Have you heard the same thing? You know, what would that look like? I'm just wondering what your sources are telling you.

REP. ED ROYCE (R-CA), HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN: Poppy, I've been talking to Saudi officials for about a week about this operation and U.S. officials. I can tell you, there are about 150,000 Saudi troops. As you know, an F-15 making a run, a flight over the area was shot down. U.S. forces were involved in rescuing those two pilots. But clearly what the Saudis are preparing to do is to try to push back this attack because they're concerned with what the Iranians have said. The Iranians have said they've now taken the capitals of four Arab states. They're talking about Yemen, they're talking about Damascus, they're talking about Beirut, they're talking about Baghdad, and they're now articulating that they're positioned to create problems for Saudi Arabia. So the Saudis clearly do not intend Yemen to become a staging ground for Iran for attacks.

I would also just say this is a problem for the United States because, already our intelligence agents in the country who are working against al Qaeda and our intelligence operatives names apparently have been turned over to senior Iranian intelligence officials. There are several hundreds Quds forces that are helping to lead these Shia rebels in taking over Yemen and they apparently have access now to that data.

HARLOW: Where is that information coming to you from?

ROYCE: Coming from various sources, but those in the region. I talked to the ambassadors in the Gulf States and as you know the Saudis are also talking to nine other countries in the region, including the Egyptians. The Egyptians are concerned because the Red Sea itself might be choked off if Yemen is controlled by Iranian forces.

So, increasingly, this becomes a regional concern for Arab states because of the aggression on the part of the regime. And the aggression is so great that the ayatollah last week by the way led a crowd in chants of "Death to America" and the ayatollah himself was saying, "yes, death to America."

So, this kind of aggression on the part of the Iranians has everyone nervous.

HARLOW: A senior Obama administration official saying this will be no military intervention by the U.S. in Yemen. That said, Secretary of State John Kerry saying, look, the U.S. is willing to help with targeting assistance, logistical support. Clearly, that's happening.

I wonder if you think that is the right position or approach of the United States right now given frankly now stretched U.S. resources are in the region fighting ISIS.

ROYCE: We should not be involved militarily there.

However, the point I would make is that we had a hundred Special Ops operating in that area against al Qaeda, and one of the consequences of the Iranians coming in is that we've pulled our people out. So what that means now in terms of security in the region is al Qaeda have something of a free hand unless the Saudis are able to put President Hadi back in power and bring some semblance of order in Yemen.

Our best ally in fighting against al Qaeda has now been pushed out, and this, of course, is a key concern to us given as I've explained the bomb-making capabilities of al Qaeda out of this operation in Yemen, which is frankly their most dangerous franchise in my opinion. HARLOW: Very quickly, sir, who is a greater risk to the United States?

Iran or ISIS?

ROYCE: They're both a risk to the United States. They both represent an extremist ideology and our best effort should be to unite the international community in a way that makes certain that first Iran does not obtain a nuclear weapon and second that ISIS is defeated.

But unfortunately, the extremism that comes out of both the Iranian leadership, you know, with what they're doing with Shia-led assaults across the region is further inflaming the passions, and second, the radicalization that's occurred with respect to ISIS, that's become a worldwide problem. A caliphate that intends to not only try to dominate the region, but it's sort of a worldwide caliphate now on the Internet where they're urging people to make attacks all over the globe.

[19:25:06] So, both require the international community working in concert towards the goal of stabilization in that region.

HARLOW: Chairman Royce, thank you. Please stay with me.

Coming up next, we're going to talk about what happened this week with Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl being charged with desertion and misbehavior before the enemy. If convicted, what punishment should he face? Also, what more do we know about the five Taliban members who were swapped for his release? We'll talk about that with the chairman when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. We have new details about the government's desertion case against Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, not only charged with desertion but also charge with misbehavior before the enemy.

Bergdahl left his post in Afghanistan back in 2009, he was captured and held captive and tortured for five years. For the first time we are learning what his defense could be.

Here's our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: After being charged with desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl's defense may be taking shape. Defense officials tell CNN that Bergdahl has told Army investigators he did not intend to desert, that his plan, his intention, was to walk to the next nearest army outpost in eastern Afghanistan in July 2009, in the middle of Taliban country, that he was walking to that outpost to report what he thought, what he believed at the time to be a lack of leadership, order, and discipline in his unit, that that was his intention. That's what army investigators have been told.

Now, whether this is going to be a valid defense, a defense that the army will accept remains to be seen. It may not matter what his intention was. He is facing a charge of desertion.

This week, we are learning new details of the conditions that Bergdahl was held in for five years after he was quickly captured by the Taliban when he left his base. He faced five year of isolation, beatings, he was held in conditions that led to illnesses, wounds on his body, all of this detailed by his lawyer in a release of documents.

But, again, all of this will be up to the Army Justice System to decide if this is enough for those charges of desertion to either stick or to be dismissed.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Barbara, thank you very much for that. In the case of Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl has been controversial from the start. Some demanding to know how a swap with five Guantanamo Bay detainees was possible. The administration and others quick to defend that trade.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, U.S. PRESIDENT: We saw an opportunity and we took it. I make no apologies for it.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: One of our values is we bring everybody home, off the battlefield the best we can. It doesn't matter how they ended up in a prisoner of war situation.

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: As a prisoner of war, Bowe Bergdahl deserved and we had the obligation and the commander in chief had the obligation to do what was necessary to bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's bring back in Congressman Ed Royce, Republican chairman of the committee - the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Thank you very much for being with me again, sir.

Let's talk about this. If we do see a guilty verdict in the case of desertion and misbehavior before the enemy for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, what do you think a punishment should be?

ROYCE: Well, I'm going to let the Army decide. It's their responsibility to adjudicate that under a court-martial. But what I would say is that the administration here, the executive branch is supposed to inform Congress in a case like this. They did not.

HARLOW: Well, sir, we're going to get to that in a moment. We're going to get to that in a moment.

ROYCE: Certainly. HARLOW: And we will talk about the politics of it. But I'm just wondering do you have an opinion as to what punishment should be for someone if he is, indeed, found guilty?

ROYCE: Well, generally those of us in political life representing this the legislative branch try not to step over on the turf of the judicial branch who ultimately have to decide these types of questions. Just as we protect the prerogative against the executive branch or judiciary stepping on our right to legislate, we certainly understand their role in this, and this is going to be the military, but their judicial system within the military, that has to determine the proper punishment. And it would not be proper for me to lay out what I think that punishment should be, frankly.

HARLOW: Let me ask you this. Senator Lindsey Graham saying if Bergdahl had been a Medal of Honor winner it would not have mattered, really condemning this trade. At the same time, we've heard a bit from Barbara Starr about what the defense may be. We know that Bergdahl's team has said he left his post to go inform the next post over of what he saw to be misconduct and things he was very concerned about among his comrades there on the post and the leadership there. If that is, indeed, what was behind Bowe Bergdahl's leaving the post in 2009, does that at all change your opinion about this?

ROYCE: I would say this. I would say Lindsey Graham as a prosecutor in the military does have standing as part of this system, and this is something he's done for years as part of his responsibility in the U.S. Air Force. So I would say he has standing to opine on this, but, again, I don't think I as a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and as its chairman, that this is a proper role for me to step on the turf of the United States Army on this subject.

HARLOW: As the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, I'm wondering what intelligence you have that you can share with us about those five Taliban members who were released in this swap. We see them on the screen right there. What can you tell us about them and anything about their behavior since being sent to Qatar?

ROYCE: I can give you a lot of information. One of them is a former army chief for the Taliban. Another is a former security chief. The third was the deputy intelligence chief. Of the five, three were involved in mass murder and indeed three of the five actually were also Al Qaeda operatives as well as being connected to senior Taliban leadership.

So there's little doubt in my mind that when May rolls around, and the original agreement was that they would be released in one year by Qatar, if they're allowed to return, as apparently is the case, to Pakistan, Afghanistan, if they're back in the fight, these are going to be very deadly senior Taliban commanders with direct ties to Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda leadership, and this will cost lives. Certainly Afghan soldiers, Afghan civilians, and possibly additional American lives.

We found so far that 30 percent of those released have returned to the battlefield. That's the 30 percent we know of. But in this case, you have one of these individuals who is already been in contact with senior Taliban fighters about his desire to return into the fight. And this brings up the question why we traded five senior leadership people, the most dangerous of the dangerous, for - in an exchange which goes against U.S. policy. It is not U.S. policy to negotiate with terrorists in this way. Did it set a precedent now?

HARLOW: And the way that the White House defend that as we heard, they say that we do not leave one of our - you know, one of our own behind no matter what the circumstances. But what the White House also says, and I want your take on this, is the State Department does not classify the Taliban as a foreign terrorist organization. Should the Taliban be classified in that way? The White House referring to them as armed insurgents.

ROYCE: I saw the White House try to escape responsibility by explaining that they're simply Taliban and they don't call them terrorists. Listen, three of them are Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda are terrorists. In addition, I would say these Taliban commanders are not only terrorists, they're also charged with mass murder for what they did to the civilian population when they were running certain regions.

And the army chief was involved in planning mass terrorist attacks. And the last point I would make is that certainly it's the responsibility of the administration to notify Congress, and as you know, members of the Senate and the house and both political parties are quite concerned about the fact that the rule of law was not followed on that point either.

So here we are giving - go ahead. I think it's about closing Guantanamo prison. I think that's why they released these five because they're the hardest to get out of Guantanamo. Now they're out and the president is moving forward with a political decision to close Guantanamo despite the threat posed by those who are in Guantanamo who are terrorists.

HARLOW: Representative Royce, we're out of time but I appreciate you coming on the program. Representative Ed Royce of California for us. Thank you, sir.

ROYCE: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Well, "The New York Times" is reporting that antidepressants have now been found by investigators in Germany in the apartment of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz. What does that mean as this investigation continues? We'll dig into that next.

But first, we have been telling you all evening about the victims of flight 9525. Eighteen of them came from the same high school in Germany. 16 students, two teachers on their way back from an exchange program in Spain. The school's headmaster saying he and others first hoped the group had missed their flight. They soon learned all of them, all 18, were on board.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. This just in to us here on CNN, major development in the investigation into the man accused of deliberately crashing a German airline and killing 150 people. A senior investigator involved in the search of Andreas Lubitz's apartment telling the "New York Times" that police found prescription drugs meant to treat a severe psychosomatic illness. Exactly what that illness is not yet known.

A German newspaper is quoting an investigator as saying Lubitz suffered from burnout syndrome and from severe depression. Also "The New York Times" reporting this weekend Lubitz was seeking treatment for a vision problem that could have impacted his flying career, and sources telling us here at CNN that Lubitz did, indeed, pass his annual physical examination as recently as last summer.

Jeff Gardere is with me again. He is a clinical psychologist. When we talk about this psychosomatic illness, explain what that is to people and also what types of drugs could be used to treat it.

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: OK. When we're talking about psychosomatic illness, we're talking about an illness that when you evaluate the person medically you don't see particular signs of it. It is so subjective it's what the person is experiencing and it's based on the stress level that they may be having.

HARLOW: So that could explain why he would pass this physical examination in 2014.

GARDERE: Exactly. He'll say well, I feel pain in my shoulders, I feel body aches or headaches or stomach aches or even something we call a conversion disorder, which is very close to a psychosomatic illness, part of it not being able to see well. All of that possibly, all of that comes from this psychosomatic. So he experiences it. For him, it's real. But when you check medically you don't see anything wrong.

HARLOW: So are there drugs that he would take to treat this? Because the investigators say they found some antidepressant drugs in his apartment.

GARDERE: All right. So with the anti-depressant drugs, certainly you treat depression, but you can also treat the anxiety as well as the depression that is part of the stressor. So it's almost palliative so the person can calm down and have less of those made-up symptoms in their minds.

HARLOW: But I want you to address this because millions of people, millions of Americans and people around the world, deal with depression.

GARDERE: That's right.

HARLOW: And they don't fly a plane with 150 people on board into a mountain range.

GARDERE: That's right.

HARLOW: Many people if they're in a severe depressive state, if they're going to hurt someone, isn't it generally themselves and not others? GARDERE: That's right. And we should be careful not to stigmatize people with mental illness or with depression. And let me tell you, there are probably a lot of pilots who may have depression and are flying and doing it absolutely well because either they're getting their therapy or they're - and/or hopefully they're on their anti- depressant medications or finding other ways to cope in a very healthy manner. A lot of people have depression and lead very productive lives.

HARLOW: So this isn't the answer to you, oh, he was - you know, if he was battling severe depression, this is the reason this happened. That doesn't even explain something like this.

GARDERE: Just the depression itself doesn't explain it. You have to look at, yes, the psychosomatic stuff, but I think major - the major issue is this person probably could not deal with stress in any productive way. And I think perhaps he had many emotional issues, a lack of emotional stability, as they talked about, this burnout. This was a person who just was breaking down psychologically, emotionally. Where did we see this before? In the school shooters. Over time just to compensating.

HARLOW: Jeff Gardere, thank you very much. More on this with our panel in just a moment.

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HARLOW: We're taking your questions this hour about the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525. Back with me to discuss our panel of experts, 777 pilot Les Abend, clinical psychologist, Jeff Gardere, CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest and pilot and CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien. Thank you all for being here.

Look, we know the big news just in to us now is that we know that anti-depressants, according to investigators have been found inside the co-pilot's apartment. To you, Jeff Gardere, what does that tell you?

GARDERE: Well, it tells me certainly that he was being treated for some sort of a mental illness. We talked about all the combinations of things that may have been going on, the stress burnout, the psychosomatic illness, certainly some sort of depression. Sounds to me a lot of anxiety, also that he's dealing with. But I think we're also dealing with something that you don't treat with medication, and that may be some sort of a severe personality disorder - and I'm not diagnosing.

I'm just saying we have to look at what would make someone so rageful that they would take the lives of 149 people in such a selfish act because they're dealing with their own issues. People deal with emotional issues every single day, but they don't go out and kill other people.

HARLOW: Exactly. Miles, to you. I want to bring you one of our viewer questions that we got. How could any person stand there and welcome schoolgirls and babies onto a plane he knows he is going to crash? I mean, Miles, you're one who has clearly come out and said there needs to be better psychological evaluation of anyone flying passengers.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. The system for years and years relied on the relationship between the flight crew. I mean, who after all knows the pilots better than the person sitting next to them in that small room for all those many hours? But that system doesn't work so well when you're rushing very young pilots into those seats before they're ready to be doing that. You don't have time to go through that vetting process and really get that armchair evaluation.

So I guess we either have to say one thing to the airlines, insists that we have pilots who have more time in. In the U.S. he would not have been sitting in that seat. He would need at least 1,500 hours of time and an airline transport pilot certificate which he didn't have. And maybe along the way somebody would have caught this before this happened.

I do have a question for the doctor though, I'm wondering, if you combine all the things we've been talking about with the issues with vision, has anybody considered whether he had a brain tumor?

HARLOW: Jeff?

GARDERE: Sure, that is something that they would have to absolutely rule out. And we know that there have been situations where people who know they have a terminal illness and can't handle that now become even more depressed or suicidal. The other thing we have to look at is was he taking his anti-depressants.

HARLOW: Right.

GARDERE: And if he wasn't was he compensating even more because he was not following through on his treatment which is possible.

HARLOW: Richard Quest, jump in here.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: I think change is going to come. I think Miles has a point earlier, there has to be some element of psychoanalysis or psychiatric evaluation of pilots. But what I would suggest is and this is crucial to understand tonight for anybody getting on planes, we are not talking about an epidemic of problems here.

There have been a mere handful, not - mere is the wrong word. Apologize. There have been a few occasions where this has happened. If you're now going to start making changes they they're going to be extremely well thought through with the large implications and repercussions and consequences. But it's not an epidemic or a crisis.

HARLOW: It's a very important point. Les, final word here before we get to break. You just flew over the Atlantic and you saw passengers acting differently as a result of fear. Some.

LES ABEND, BOEING 777 CAPTAIN: Well there was one individual that acted up and expressed his concern for how I was getting along with my family. And it upset a flight attendant and she thought it was very offensive. But I get it, he verbalized, other passengers maybe thinking the same thing. So in a way we have failed our customers, our passengers and the most important people that make this airline business what is it.

We take it very personally. To Miles' point by the way with reference to this program that Lufthansa has, he's absolutely right. In this country 1500 hours it's very important. This is somebody that went through an entire training process to get to where he was, he has low time and he's absolutely right, within that six-month time period, what happened? Why did he leave the program? Because that's part of the screening process.

HARLOW: A lot of questions -

ABEND: It disturbs me.

HARLOW: And a lot of answers that we need. Gentlemen, thank you very much. We're going to end program tonight with a look back at the victims, those lives lost. That's next.

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HARLOW: They were mothers and fathers, daughters and sons, students and singers. The passengers on board Flight 9525 came from all over the world, at least 18 countries and tonight we remember them.

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HARLOW: those are the lives lost on that tragic day. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Poppy Harlow. Stay with us here on CNN for breaking news any time and updates on the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525. Good night.

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