Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders Woo Wisconsin Voters; Senator Ted Cruz Holds Rally In Wisconsin; EgyptAir Hostages Freed; FBI Ending Fight With Apple; Pakistani President Cancels Trip to the U.S.; Convicted Murderer Recaptured in Ohio; New Fossil Find. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired March 29, 2015 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:31:23]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Gun violence takes center stage today in the Democrat's battle for the White House where Hillary Clinton could soon hold a forum on the issue live from Milwaukee. Her campaign thinks this could be a weak spot for her rival, Bernie Sanders.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is there right now. He joins me live. Good morning, Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

The Clinton campaign is doing what we've seen them do in other states, focusing on gun violence. It's something that Secretary Clinton did with great effect in states like South Carolina and others. Bringing together advocates from the community and mothers of victims of gun violence. She'll be doing the same here today in Milwaukee.

You can see the set up behind me here at the Tabernacle, a community church here in Milwaukee. But it's really a sense of this Democratic race is still going on. By this time the Clinton campaign had hoped to sort of, you know, moved beyond into the general election phase, but they're operating on a dual track strategy here.

Bernie Sanders is fighting very aggressively in Wisconsin with some reason to believe that he can do very well here. This is a state that Barack Obama won by 18 points in 2008. The Clinton campaign still remembers that defeat very, very well. But yesterday as Hillary Clinton was out campaigning at the speech in Madison, she was not focusing on Bernie Sanders at all. She's still trying to make that electability argument by talking about how she would be the stronger candidate against Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, every day another Republican bemoans the rise of Donald Trump. They say a Trump nomination will set their party back decades. I agree. It will set the Republican Party back if Donald Trump is their standard bearer. But Donald Trump didn't come out of nowhere. What the Republicans have sewn with their extremist tactics they are now reaping with Donald Trump's candidacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So that clearly is a sense that the Clinton campaign is focusing more on Donald Trump talking about him, but, Carol, I can tell you they're also are the whole reason there's a gun violence seminar going on here in a few minutes time is they're still focused on Bernie Sanders, trying to get those core Democratic voters out here. But Wisconsin is a hunting state. So the gun issue like in Bernie Sanders' home city of Vermont is slightly more complicated politically speaking. Carol.

COSTELLO: So which way do you think Wisconsin will go for the Democrats, Jeff?

ZELENY: Well, it's going to be interesting to watch this campaign over the next week. I mean, the Sanders supporters really believe that this is a good state for him.

Remember those big rallies that he started holding last year across the country? One of his first ones was in Wisconsin in Madison, some 10,000 people showed up. This is a state where, you know, a proud progressive tradition that fits his politics very well here.

So the Clinton campaign is not expecting a big win. In fact, a lot of their supporters here on the ground believe they may lose this state, but still, it's a race for delegates. What they're hoping, Carol, is not a big, big, big loss, but a lot of time over the next week we're going to see President Clinton back campaigning. We're likely to see Hillary Clinton campaigning more as well here.

So, we'll find out how the next seven days go here. But the Republican race also plays into this. So you can vote on either side here. So the next week all eyes on both sides, are wisely on Wisconsin. Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jeff Zeleny reporting live from Milwaukee this morning.

For Bernie Sanders, a victory next week in Wisconsin could not only extend his winning streak but also boost his (INAUDIBLE) to pick up a few of Hillary Clinton's superdelegates. The senator says, momentum in his campaign could lead some of those high profile voters to switch sides.

[10:35:00]

In fact the Sanders' camp is actively telling Clinton's superdelegates there is still time to feel the Bern. One of his aids comparing superdelegates to football recruits saying that until the dotted line is signed, superdelegates are up for grabs. But as you can see he does have a long way to go to catch up with Clinton who holds a commanding lead over the Vermont senator when it comes to delegates and superdelegates. Here to talk more about that is Maria Cardona. She's a Clinton supporter and she's also a Democratic superdelegate. Welcome, Maria.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC SUPERDELEGATE: Hey, Carol. Thank you.

COSTELLO: I want to talk about the superdelegate thing because it's so confusing, and I think people are intrigued by it, especially this year.

CARDONA: Sure.

COSTELLO: So first of all, how do you get to be a superdelegate?

CARDONA: You can be a superdelegate -- and by the way, the party prefers to call them unpledged delegates, because the moniker of superdelegates gives them this sort of outsized power which they don't have.

Superdelegates or unpledged delegates are the party leaders, and what that means is that they are all of the members of Congress, DNC committee members, former presidents, former vice presidents, governors, essentially the party leadership around the country. Those are the ones who right now have this title of unpledged delegates.

And the reason they were created, Carol, was because the party wanted the participation of these party leaders, but at the same time, they did not want to push aside the participation of real grassroots party activists. And so what they did was they gave the majority of the delegate slates, the pledged delegates, over 85 percent of those are pledged delegates and the ones that are allocated by votes to these party activists so they could run on the delegate slate without having to compete with former governors or members of Congress who normally would win every time. And that's why we have such a diverse delegate process and delegation at the Democratic National Convention.

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing though, Maria. A lot of people believe that it's really not very Democratic to have superdelegates or unpledged delegates or delegates of any kind. Why not just let people vote and whoever gets the most votes wins?

CARDONA: Well, essentially, Carol, that's exactly what is happening. And I guess I'll say two things.

There has never been a scenario where the unpledged delegate has overturned the will of the people. So what that means is that the Democratic Party nominee has always been the person who has allocated the most pledged delegates. And so what you have seen in the past is even when the unpledged delegates have committed to a candidate -- this happened in 2008, if they see that the will of the people is turning and there is the other candidate that is racking out getting more pledged delegates, they switch. And at end of the day, the person who ends up with the Democratic Party nomination is the person with the most pledged delegates, I.E., the person who was chosen by the will of the people.

COSTELLO: OK. So we all know you're behind Hillary Clinton. You actively campaign for Hillary Clinton, your firm does, right?

CARDONA: Right.

COSTELLO: So still, though, some Bernie Sanders supporters want you to change your position. They want you to feel the bern.

CARDONA: Right.

COSTELLO: So what's that been like for you day after day? Do they call you up? Do they tweet you? How do they contact you?

CARDONA: They do all the above. They send me emails. Some of them are gracious and some of them are quite nasty, to be honest.

But, look, you know, what the Sanders campaign is saying about these unpledged delegates being up for grabs is kind of true.

COSTELLO: Tell us what that's like, Maria. I really want to know what that's like to have somebody lobby you every single day to change your position. What kinds of things do they say to you?

CARDONA: Well, they say things to me like what does it feel like to be an undemocratically elected superdelegate, and, you know, aren't you ashamed to be thwarting the will of the people?

These are the nastier ones. And, you know, we are a group of people who are supporting a nominee -- or who are supporting who they believe is the nominee who represents the will of the people, and then they say very nasty things about Hillary Clinton. And so what I do with those, Carol, is essentially I ignore them, but I also reply by saying, if you are asking me to support the candidate who is representing the will of the people, that candidate right now is actually Hillary Clinton who has 2.5 million more votes and more pledged delegates than your candidate, Bernie Sanders. If that changes, then let's talk.

COSTELLO: All right. Maria Cardona, thanks for filling us in. It's fascinating. Thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thank you, Maria.

Senator Bernie Sanders will be a guest on the "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" show tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.

I want to bring you back to Wisconsin -- to Brookfield, Wisconsin. As you can see, Carly Fiorina is on stage. This is obviously a Ted Cruz event. She is stumping for him.

[10:40:01]

He just got the endorsement of the Wisconsin governor, Scott Walker. Let's listen to Ms. Fiorina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A simple flat tax that I'm rolling out, a 10 percent flat tax for everyone would produce 4.9...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Well, then, she just finished up. I apologize for that. What you're hearing right now is Senator Ted Cruz's voice. And he's on a video monitor.

Scott Walker could be on the stage. We just don't know but if he appears on that stage in Brookfield, Wisconsin, of course we'll bring you back there live. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. Back to Brookfield, Wisconsin. You see Senator Ted Cruz on the stage rallying his supporters after a big endorsement from Wisconsin governor, Scott Walker.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:45:01]

CRUZ: Scott Walker is a strong, principled conservative. Governor Walker with the help of the men and women gathered here today and all across the state, won an election, and then another election, and then another election.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And when Scott stood up to the union bosses, when Scott saw death threats and attacks and protests and anger and yells, millions of men and women all across the State of Wisconsin stood with Governor Scott Walker.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And your heroic stand together inspired millions across the country and inspired me. It showed that when we, the people, stand up together, we can beat the special interests that are bankrupting our kids and grand kids.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: Let me tell you. I am humbled to be in the presence of patriots who we are all fighting for this country we love so much. And the courage, the principle that was demonstrated and is demonstrated every day by Scott Walker, by the men and women of Wisconsin, we need that courage, we need that principle in Washington D.C. taking on the special interests.

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: And I'm honored to be with patriots like Senator Duey Stroebel fighting for men and women of Wisconsin each and every day.

And how about Carly?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: Isn't she fantastic? Such an incredible business leader. Rose to the pinnacle of business. She's strong. She's inspirational, and let me tell you, that woman gives Hillary Clinton nightmares.

(LAUGHTER)

CRUZ: I can just picture Hillary thinking about Carly and tossing and turning and tossing and turning in her jail cell.

You know, all of us are here today because our country is in crisis. Because we're bankrupting our kids and grand kids. Our constitutional rights are under assault. America has receded from leadership in the world, and yet I'm here this morning with a word of hope and encouragement. All across Wisconsin, all across this country, people are waking up and help is on the way.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CRUZ: This election is going to come down to three critical issues. Jobs, freedom, and security.

Let's talk jobs. Let me take a minute to talk to all the single moms who are here. Who are working two or three part time jobs. Who have had your hours forcefully reduced to 28-29 hours a week because Obamacare kicks in at 30 hours a week.

Let me talk to all the truck drivers, all the plumbers and electricians and mechanics, all steel workers and union members with calluses on your hands, who have seen your wages stagnating year after year after year. The cost of living keeps going up but somehow your paycheck doesn't seem to keep pace.

Let me talk to all the young people. Coming out of school. Student loans up to your eyeballs. Scared...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. We're going to step away from this Senator Ted Cruz event celebrating in part his big endorsement from the Wisconsin governor, Scott Walker.

[10:50:03]

As you know Wisconsin will cast their votes on April 5th. That's the day. That's when they'll cast their voters. We'll have more politics in just a minute. But we have to get to this breaking news that we've had all morning.

We have new video now of the man accused of hijacking an Egypt air flight this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO (voice-over): This is surveillance tape of that man going through security at the airport at Alexandria, Egypt. Once the flight took off with some 80 people on board, you see him going through the metal detector there. No sign of anything wrong, right? But later when that man got on the plane he said he had an explosive belt. He ordered the flight to the Mediterranean island of Cyprus. The standoff on the tarmac lasted for hours.

This is one of the last hostages. You'll see them right here. There you go. You see one of the last hostages escaping through a cockpit window and scaling down the side of the plane. Minutes later the hijacker surrendered without a fight.

Officials now say he was not a terrorist. He was a mentally unstable man upset about his ex-wife.

I want to bring in Jim Kreindler. He's an expert in aviation accident and terrorist litigation. Welcome, Jim.

JIM KREINDLER, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: So supposedly this man was wearing some type of fake- looking explosive belt while aboard the airplane maybe made of iPhone cases or something like that.

KREINDLER: Yes.

COSTELLO: So he did make the passengers and crew believe that he had an on an explosive device. So what do you do?

KREINDLER: Well, you have to have good security obviously.

Watching the video, it reminds me of Pan Am 103 with a brown suitcase was sent through an x-ray machine and because the screeners weren't well trained, weren't told what the risks were, it passed.

Here if you have good security, someone can't walk through scanning machines with the device and have there be a chance that it contains an explosive device.

COSTELLO: Yes, but by all estimation authorities say that there were no explosives in that belt. It was just maybe a bunch of empty cell phone cases. So how do you -- I mean, should they have detected something like that?

KREINDLER: Well, we don't know. I mean, if there was an explosive device, it should have been detected. If there wasn't and you have good confident security, you know it's a fake threat and then the response, of course, is very different.

COSTELLO: So this man held those people hostages, at least some of them in that plane for hours and hours. I guess he wanted to talk to his ex-wife. From all that you've heard, did Egyptian authorities -- did Egyptian security handle this in a proper way?

KREINDLER: Well, I don't know

Certainly if you know that it's a fake threat, the passengers should not have been exposed to what they were exposed to. If the threat may have been credible, it's only because security isn't great. So at this point, I don't think we know. But obviously you should have a good security system and confidence in the security system so that these kind of threats have no credence.

COSTELLO: Well, an interesting thing happened during the news conference very early this morning. The president of Cyprus was speaking and he was talking about this man holding these hostages, and at one point he kind of laughed when he asked if a woman was involved. And he kind of laughed and said, isn't it always a woman? And it just seems so inappropriate to me.

KREINDLER: Yes, it is. You know, who knows what's in his mind. The EgyptAir 990 crashed when an EgyptAir pilot committed suicide because of family problems, an embarrassment that he was going to be exposed for being a peeping tom in New York City. You know, bizarre personal things can lead to tragedies. You know, here fortunately, no one is killed. But --

COSTELLO: So last question.

KREINDLER: Sure.

COSTELLO: If you're a passenger on board that plane and you know that there's a hijacking going on and a man appears to be wearing some kind of belt and you don't know what it is, how should you react?

KREINDLER: Well, obviously it's a pretty terrifying prospect, and people through an ordeal. Should passengers try and do something like the passengers did on 9/11? I don't know. You know, apparently there was the equivalent of an air marshal or security official on board, and I don't know what if anything that person did yet.

COSTELLO: Yes, we have to -- so many questions, not many answers right now.

KREINDLER: Yes.

COSTELLO: But I'm sure people -- James Kreindler, thanks for stopping by.

KREINDLER: My pleasure.

COSTELLO: Coming up next, the feds dropped their case against Apple. Why they say they don't need the tech giant's help anymore.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:35]

COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 58 minutes past the hour. The FBI says it's been able to break into the iPhone of one of the San Bernardino shooters. And it's because of this it's ending its fight against Apple. FBI investigators used a third party to get around Apple's encryption. Security advocates now want the government to explain how it got into the phone to protect other iPhone users.

The president of Pakistan is cancelling a planned trip to the United States to staying home to deal with the Easter bombing in Lahore, 72 people were killed including 24 children. A splinter group of the Pakistani Taliban is claiming responsibility says it wanted to target Christians. Fifteen Christians were killed along with 52 Muslims.

A convicted murderer who escaped from prison in Ohio is now back in custody. John Modie escaped from his cell on Sunday. He was caught Monday night in the same town where the prison is located.

Thanks to a new fossil find, scientists are rethinking how long ago this Siberian unicorn roamed the earth. The fossilized skull found in Kazakhstan shows the animal was still around 29,000 years ago. It was originally thought to have gone extinct 350,000 years ago. But as you can see it's not quite like your cartoon unicorn. It looks more like a large shaggy rhino, right? Fascinating.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

[11:00:00]

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.