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Indiana Law Backlash; Interview with Gov. Dannel Malloy, D-CT; Patriots' Owner Robert Kraft Testifies at Hernandez Trial. Aired 9:30- 10a ET
Aired March 31, 2015 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Rosa Flores is in Indianapolis with more.
Good morning.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
The speaker of the house tells me that his goal is to fix this law by the end of the week. Let me tell you something, that is a tall order in an Indiana house divided. Yes, Republicans control chambers, but Democrats have support pouring in from around the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LT. GOV. SUE ELLSPERMANN (R), INDIANA: This law is not intended to discriminate. We have great respect for the LGBT community.
FLORES (voice-over): This morning, no revisions yet to Indiana's polarizing SB-101, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
CROWD: No hate in our state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's state?
CROWD: Our state.
FLORES: Outrage growing across the country to what gay rights advocates call the latest attack to legalize discrimination. Protesters, corporations and fellow governors condemning the state's action. Connecticut and Washington state now banning state-funded travel to Indiana. Even the Indianapolis city council passed a resolution opposing SB-101.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fix this law. And do so immediately.
FLORES: Opponents concerned that the law could give businesses a license to deny LGBT individual services, including for their weddings. The Indiana governor's office promising to clarify.
ELLSPERMANN: I've been up close to discrimination. I don't want that. we don't want that. The governor has said he doesn't want that.
FLORES: In a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed, Governor Mike Pence wrote, quote, "I abhor discrimination. If I saw a restaurant owner refuse to serve a gay couple, I wouldn't eat there anymore." He goes on to say, "RFRA only provides a mechanism to address claims, not a license for private parties to deny services." The governor told ABC's "This Week" Sunday he personally wouldn't change the law, but is open to the general assembly proposing revisions.
BRIAN C. BOSMA (R), INDIANA HOUSE SPEAKER: What we're going to do is specifically state that it cannot -- the RFRA standard cannot be raised as a defense in those circumstances.
FLORES: A Democratic leader in the Hoosier house says this should have happened from the beginning.
TIM LANANE, INDIANA SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER: We said, look, if it's not about discrimination, prove it by adopting this amendment or adopting that amendment. Make it clear it's not about discrimination.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES: And Governor Mike Pence expected to make a statement in about an hour and a half. What is he going to say? It's unclear. However, we can tell you that the last time that he spoke out, he didn't mince words, saying that he is for clarifying the language of the bill, but he is not for clearing it from the books.
Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Rosa Flores reporting live from Indianapolis this morning.
My next guest says Indiana's religious freedom law is, quote, "disturbing, disgraceful and discriminatory." And he became the very first governor to issue a ban on state-funded travel to Indiana as a result. Joining me now from Hartford, Connecticut, Mayor Dannel Malloy.
Governor, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
GOV. DANNEL MALLOY (D), CONNECTICUT: Sure. I was a mayor first and now I'm a governor.
COSTELLO: Oh, I'm sorry. That's so awful.
MALLOY: That's all right.
COSTELLO: Could you tell me what -- what you want Governor Pence to say today when he speaks at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time?
MALLOY: Hey, listen, he's trying to be on all sides of the issue all of a sudden. You know, he -- he proudly proclaimed he was going to sign this legislation. He had a -- he had a public ceremony. He invited people to the ceremony. He knew exactly what he was doing. He was attempting to legalize discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation.
The only way to prove that he doesn't support that now is to see the legislature pass a law that guarantees people they'll be free of discrimination based on their sexual orientation. Many state did it 25 years ago. Many states have done it. The reality is, is he got caught. And when he got caught, he didn't realize it, even as late as Sunday that he'd gotten caught. He gave that disastrous interview on national TV where he wouldn't even say he was against discrimination.
It's time for the people of Indiana to admit that this is an unbelievable embarrassment to their state. A state that houses the NCAA headquarters. Quite frankly, if Indiana doesn't say that they're going to ban discrimination based on sexual orientation, the NCAA needs to move out of Indiana. Indiana houses the home offices of most fraternities and sororities in the country. If Indiana doesn't pass a law that guarantees people that they'll be free of discrimination, those fraternities and sororities need to move out of Indiana. Companies doing business need to move. And they certainly need to not bring people there or cause people to have to travel to Indiana, a state that might discriminate against them, unless they're willing to -- unless Indiana's willing to pass this legislation.
[09:34:56] COSTELLO: Well, the governor of Indiana does have some political cover. I mean Ted Cruz came out, who's a presidential contender for 2016. He tweeted, quote, "I'm proud to stand with Governor Mike Pence for religious liberty and I urge Americans to do the same." Marco Rubio, another potential contender for president in 2016, offered this perspective during an interview with Fox News. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: No one here is saying that it should be legal to deny someone service at a restaurant or at a hotel because of sexual orientation. I think that's a consensus view in America. The flip side of it is, though, should a photographer be punished for refusing to do a wedding that their faith teaches them is not one that is valid in the eyes of God?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And, governor, more than one Republican presidential contender says this whole thing is being over blown for political purposes. Liberals, like you, are doing this, too. As Politico put it, you're trying to "ride the wave of increased support for marriage equality for political purposes." Can you respond?
MALLOY: None of those people who would defend this law in Indiana, the debate that took place about the law, its passage, even its ceremony, none of those people who would defend that are qualified to be president of the United States. I want to be very clear. You can't have it both ways. You can't eat your cake and have it, too. Either you're for discrimination or you're against it.
This law was specifically written to allow companies and individuals to exclude services being provided to individuals based on their sexual orientation. There is no -- there's no gray area here, folks. It was advertised. It was debated for that purpose. Democrats offered time and time again amendments that would have clarified that. Republicans muscled this through. They thought it was a great idea.
They were patting themselves on the back saying how wonderful this was that they could get this done. He announced days before that he would sign it. He had a ceremony signing it. He invited three homophobic men who have gone out of their way to make gay people in Indiana miserable to the ceremony. That's what they did. You can't defend it. It's undefensible. If they didn't solve this problem, then companies and associations need to move out of the state.
COSTELLO: Governor, Arkansas is on the verge of passing a law similar to Indiana's. Will you boycott Arkansas, too?
MALLOY: Listen, I don't think that we'll support any state that is prepared to discriminate against the citizens of Connecticut. You know, religious freedom is already protected in the United States. It's in our Constitution. It's in most state constitutions.
You know, when you ask these questions, your -- it's like you think that this is gray. It's not gray. It's already -- we already have constitutional guarantees and freedom of religion. What they're doing now, and what Arizona almost did, and let's go back to Arizona, they knew how dangerous this was. The governor vetoed it there. Now you have a couple of governors who think, hey, because I'm personally popular or because discrimination is a popular thing in my state, I can get away with this? No. We're not going to support states that are going to discriminate against the citizens of the state of Connecticut.
COSTELLO: Governor Dannel Malloy of Connecticut, thank you so much for being with me this morning, sir.
MALLOY: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, as global powers edge closer to a critical deadline on nuclear talks, House Speaker John Boehner is heading to Israel. Why? We'll tell you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:42:02] COSTELLO: Want to take you to Boston right now. There's been some dramatic testimony if the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. Sitting on the stand right now is Robert Kraft. He's the owner of the New England Patriots. As you know, Hernandez played for the Patriots at the time this murder went down. Robert Kraft supposedly talked to him about that. Let's listen to his testimony.
ROBERT KRAFT, OWNER, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: Innocent and that he hoped that the time of the murder incident came out because I believe he said he was in a club.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So at the time that you had this conversation with him, had you learned about a homicide that had occurred in North Attleboro, Massachusetts?
KRAFT: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So when you referred to speaking to him about
wanting to know whether he was involved in this incident, was it in relation to that homicide?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you indicated when you asked him that he -- he stated, what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to object to the question, your honor.
JUDGE SUSAN GARSH: Objection sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did he say about where he was when you asked him that?
KRAFT: I don't recall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, sir, at some point did you prepare an affidavit in this matter?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, may I approach, please.
Sir, I'm just going to show you this document and ask you to read down at the bottom here this last sentence beginning there and to the end. If you could just read that, sir, to yourself, please.
OK. Does that refresh your memory, sir, about your conversation with the defendant about where he indicated to you he was -- or, strike that -- about the -- at the time of the homicide?
KRAFT: Can you ask your question again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. What did he say about wanting -- hoping for the time of the homicide to be revealed?
KRAFT: My recollection is that he said that he hoped that the time of the event came out because he was in a club.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KRAFT: I thought he had said Providence, but I'm not 100 percent sure of that. But he was at a club.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And did he indicate -- when you say -- at the time do you recall him making some statement about whether the club was located?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, leading, your honor.
GARSH: Objection sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What else can you tell us about your memory as related to the Providence? KRAFT: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, did you have a further conversation with him about if he knew the victim of the homicide?
[09:45:05] KRAFT: I believe I can did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you recall what he told you?
KRAFT: I think he said that he was the boyfriend of his fiancee -- his fiancee's sister -- he was her boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did he further describe the nature of their relationship?
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. How long would you say you had spoken to him on that date?
KRAFT: Five to ten minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Was there anything else outside of what you have told us anything else about your conversation with him?
KRAFT:: I'm not sure I understand your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. What else, if anything, did you talk about during that time period?
KRAFT:: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KRAFT: I just wanted him to know --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. (INAUDIBLE).
-- Objection sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And as a result of completing your conversation at that point, at that point, did you go somewhere?
KRAFT: I went to my office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. When you left, how was it left between you -- the two of you?
KRAFT: I'm not sure I understand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. Did you -- when you went to leave, did he say anything else to you?
KRAFT: He hugged and kissed me and thanked me for my concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And after that time did you see the defendant again.
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I have no further questions. Thank you, sir.
WILLIAM MCCAULEY, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Good morning, Mr. Kraft.
KRAFT: Good morning.
MCCAULEY: Aaron Hernandez signed with the Patriots as a professional football player. I think you said your memory is around 2010 or 2011. Is that right, sir?
KRAFT: I'm not sure.
MCCAULEY: That's fine, sir. Do you recall where Aaron had played college football?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: Where was that, sir?
KRAFT: At Florida.
MCCAULEY: And at the University of Florida, sir?
KRAFT: Wherever Urban Mayer. I always get them mixed up. yes.
MCCAULEY: And do you recall that the University of Florida won the national championship in 2009?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: Under Coach Mayer?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: With Aaron Hernandez on the team ?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: And do you recall that in 2009 Aaron Hernandez was a First Team All American at Florida?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: Do you recall in 2009 Aaron won the John Mackie Award as best college tight end in football?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection oh.
KRAFT: Do you want me to answer?
-- You may answer.
KRAFT: I don't follow all those details. I knew he was very good.
MCCAULEY: And when Aaron signed with the Patriots, do you recall that he had a productive rookie season -- a successful rookie season, sir?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: And that was followed by another season where your team, the Patriots, went to the Super Bowl. Isn't that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: And Aaron was part of that team.
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: Now when you and Aaron would see each other, you had a bit of a special greeting, didn't you?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: What was that, sir?
KRAFT: Well, he would always hug and kiss me.
MCCAULEY: After that Super Bowl season, your organization made an investment in Aaron, didn't it?
KRAFT: Yes .
MCCAULEY: Specifically, in August of 2012, the New England Patriots signed Aaron to a long-term contract, didn't they?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: That contract was to run through the 2018 season. Isn't that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
MCCAULEY: And the maximum --
[09:50:01] KRAFT: I'm not sure. I don't know if there were options involved. So I shouldn't -- I don't remember the details. I don't remember the details.
MCCAULEY: Do you remember, exhausted on that subject, sir, as far as the length of that contract?
KRAFT: No, I'm not questioning the length. I think that very often during contracts, we have options to continue or not continue.
MCCAULEY: Do you recall that the contract itself, however, contemplated when signed that it would run through the 2018 season?
KRAFT: I don't -- I don't get into the details. I just knew we signed him. MCCAULEY: May I approach, Your Honor?
-- You may.
MCCAULEY: Mr. Kraft, I'm going to show you a document and just ask you to take a look at it on the page which has been marked N000015. In particular, paragraph five. And just on the topic of whether this contract, whether a contract signed by the New England Patriots and Aaron contemplated him being a member through the 2018 season. Let's see if that refreshes your memory, sir.
KRAFT: My memory isn't to be refreshed because I don't get into this. I OK it when it's brought to me. But there are details beyond this -- that I can't say I'm an expert on the terms and conditions. I know we signed him to a long-term contract.
MCCAULEY: Thank you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know why the organization signed him to a long-term contract, Mr. Kraft?
KRAFT: He's a very good player.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, do you remember Aaron signing this contract in august 2012?
KRAFT: I don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember that shortly after he signed the contract, Aaron personally gave you a check for $50,000 to the Myra Kraft Giving Back fund?
-- Objection sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now directing your attention to June 19th, sir, as Mr. McCauley did, 2013. You were at Gillette Stadium, is that right, sir?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you saw all the media assembled there, isn't that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the media coverage was nonstop and it was extensive. Isn't that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that bothered you? To have media attention like that at your --
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you decided to go and speak to Aaron, correct? KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you found Aaron in the weight room. Isn't that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And by being in the weight room in the offseason, Aaron was doing his job, wasn't he?
KRAFT: He was training.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you asked to speak with him just off the weight room, is that right?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you personally had never had any problems with Aaron, had you?
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so you went into the office of, I think you said Mr. Cabrera, is that right, sir?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the two of you sat down and had a conversation.
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a private conversation, correct?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no one else there.
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't take any notes of that conversation, correct?
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it fair to say, sir, that that conversation and the situation was something you had never dealt with before?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so you spoke to Aaron, and you don't remember the exact words of that conversation, do you, sir?
KRAFT: Vaguely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you asked Aaron to look you in the eye, didn't you?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he did. Didn't he?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you asked him if he was involved. And he said no.
[09:55:02] KRAFT: That's correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you wanted him to be straight with you, didn't you?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you wanted to be straight with him, correct?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you told him you would support him, didn't you?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Aaron told you he had nothing to do with this. Isn't that right?
KRAFT: He said he was innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't he say he was completely innocent?
KRAFT: I don't recall exactly the words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But, um, the subject of Aaron being at a club came up, didn't it, sir?
KRAFT: Only in the context of what I said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And didn't Aaron tell you he had been at a club with Odin Lloyd?
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you couldn't remember.
KRAFT: I honestly don't remember that. He might have. I don't remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I think you testified on direct examination, sir, that you believe he said a club, but you weren't sure where the location of that club was.
KRAFT: That's correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I said the name Club Rumor, does that help at all in your memory?
KRAFT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, sir, as you spoke with Mr. Hernandez, Aaron, you asked him if he knew Odin Lloyd, didn't you?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Aaron --
KRAFT: I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I did. I honestly don't recall. That was almost three years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I approach, Your Honor?
-- You may.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Kraft, I'm going to show you a document. I believe it's the same document Mr. McCauley showed you. And on this topic of whether or not he knew Mr. Lloyd, I would just ask you to read to yourself this line here.
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Does that refresh your memory, sir, of whether you asked Mr. Hernandez of whether he knew Odin Lloyd?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And Aaron explained that Odin was the boyfriend of Aaron's fiancee's sister. Is that right?
KRAFT: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Aaron told you that he and Odin had socialized together. Didn't he?
KRAFT: I really -- my main focus was understanding whether he was involved or not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I understand, sir.
KRAFT: And what I could do to help him.
-- I'm going to strike that answer. If you could listen carefully, the question -- just answer the question that's being asked.
KRAFT: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So my question, Mr. Kraft, is just simply -- I was asking whether you recall that Aaron told you that he and Odin Lloyd spent time together socializing? Or socially?
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did tell you that? KRAFT: You're showing me what I said. It's not something I focused on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's perfectly understandable, sir. I just waned to refresh your memory and ask you if you recall that. So as you testify here today, do you recall Aaron telling you that he and Mr. Lloyd socialized together?
KRAFT: I honestly can't recall that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My I approach, Your Honor?
-- You may.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, thank you.
Mr. Kraft, I'm just going to show you that same document. And I'm just going to direct your attention to this sentence, which ends here. This is -- you recognize this document, sir. Just take a look at that and read it to yourself.
KRAFT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All you need to know, sir, all you do to is read that, sir, and I'll (INAUDIBLE) questions. Thank you.
Sir, having seen that document, does it refresh your recollection that on June 19th, Aaron had told you that he and Mr. Lloyd had spent time together socially?
[10:00:07] KRAFT: Yes. I was -- that's what it says, what I said, but I didn't -- but that was a general statement, in my mind.
