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Crash Site Video; Cell Phone Video; Duke Investigation; Victory in Tikrit. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:10] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Thank you so much for being with me here today, with new revelations this afternoon on the downing of Germanwings Flight 9525. Really the big question right now, other than why still, is, is there actually cell phone video from inside that plane right before it went down into the French Alps. You talk to two newspapers, the answer would be yes. Even insisting that they have seen this video of those final moments aboard this doomed airliner. You talk to French officials, that's a totally different response. They say absolutely not, that footage does not exist and it most certainly has not been leaked. The editor of "Bild," that German tabloid, pushing back in an interview right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN REICHELT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, BILD ONLINE: We saw the video with our colleagues at "Paris Match" and it was kind of disturbing, upsetting material. You know its shot in the cabin. It shows that there was, you know, a lot of chaos going on. That people apparently were very much aware of where this was heading. It also seems to document that there was kind of a metallic bang on, you know, what sounds like a metallic bang on a door, which, you know, is kind of in line with, you know, results of the previous investigation that say that the pilot was trying to break into the cockpit. That is what we saw.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That, by the way, was not the only major revelation from that German editor from "Bild." He is also claiming that this young co- pilot, this Andreas Lubitz, the 27-year-old accused of deliberately crashing the plane, that he lied to his doctors, told them he wasn't flying. That he was off duty and that he was trying to get back in the cockpit.

But for all of these families, this is all about the search right now. And today we are getting some new pictures. These are photos we have never seen before, up close, on the ground here amid the Germanwings wreckage.

Searchers on their hands and knees in this narrow ravine, and beyond, deep here in the French Alps, going through debris, sorting through the remains. Joining me now from Haltern, Germany, is my colleague, Will Ripley.

And let's just begin with these new pictures, these up close pictures, of this debris field here in the mountains. Tell me what they're seeing and also any update on finding that second black box.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They still have not recovered it. And it's very important that they flight that flight data recorder because that will, of course, verify a lot of questions that were raised after the transcript of the cockpit voice recording was leaked. Specifically, was Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot, manually flying the plane when it went down into the French Alps.

You see the video, Brooke. You see that scene there. It's very treacherous and dangerous conditions that these searchers are in right now. They're trying to recover remains, get them identified as quick as possible. But just 75 miles from the crash site, there was a deadly avalanche. So there's a very real danger facing these - these search and recovery teams as they do their work. Their very important work certainly for the family of the people on board who are just hoping for some sort of - some sort of identification of these remains so they can have a bit of closure, even as memorial services are getting underway here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about memorial services and some of these loved ones here. I know the reason you're in this city of Haltern is because that is the home of those young high school students, those 16 students, killed on that flight. Tell me about the memorial service today.

RIPLEY: Heartbreaking, Brooke, to be here. Six hundred people were inside the church and hundreds more were standing outside listening to the service. It was very tearful. At times, as the music queued up, the skies opened up here. It would start to rain. And the whole mood was one of disbelief, one week later, that this town, this small west German town of 38,000 people, lost 16 bright young students, 15-year- olds in 10th grade, who were wrapping up a trip that was supposed to be one of the happiest times of the year.

They were in a small town near Barcelona. They were studying Spanish. Their families, some of them were waiting for them at the airport in Dusseldorf. They never arrived. And people here are outraged. They're angry that this - that this co-pilot was allowed to be at the controls of a plane with those young lives and 149 other lives helpless as he was able to do this. They want to know why Lufthansa, given that they knew about a history of serious depression, allowed this pilot to be alone in the cockpit. So there's grief and there's outrage here right now, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We have learned about the documentation of his severe depression going back to when he was in flight training school back in 2009.

Will Ripley, my thanks to you there in Germany.

[14:04:56] I just want to get back to what is simply a stunning claim. The cell phone video that supposedly survived this crash in the Alps. The recording is said to document the plane's horrifying final moments filled with panic and pleas and metallic banging on this cockpit door perhaps and the screams of all those passengers.

Joining me now, Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst, former inspector general, U.S. Department of Transportation, and Lance Ulanoff. He's a chief correspondent and editor at large at Mashable.

So welcome to both of you.

We really wanted to hone in on - Mary, let me just ask you, because you're familiar with so many different accident investigations. I mean to just think of this possibility, when you look at this debris field, that it would even be possible that a cell phone or even this card from inside a cell phone would survive something like this. Possible?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Oh, possible, and it's happened in other crashes and other cases that I have worked. I've not only had - do cell phones survive and you can download the material off of cell phones, but sometimes laptops and other electrons. And even after a fire, I've had situations where after a fire you've been able to download pictures from cell phones or material from laptops. And so I'm only surprised that there's not more than one. I would have suspected that many on the planes would have - have gotten out of cell phone, sent messages, uploaded things. I mean, I would think there's going to be, as time goes on, perhaps more of this.

BALDWIN: Now, let me turn to you, Lance, because I was talking to our correspondent covering the area in the French Alps and he said, yes, absolutely, investigators have actually recovered multiple cell phones or pieces of cell phones. But he was saying to me, these investigators are saying, no way has anyone found a chip and discovered this video of the final moments. What I was wondering is, is it possible that these investigators would be taking these cell phones off site and somehow, through a cloud - or this is when I need your expertise -

LANCE ULANOFF, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE, MASHABLE: Right.

BALDWIN: Explain to me how it could be possible.

ULANOFF: Yes. Well, first of all, I mean you've seen the wreckage, you've seen what's happened even to the black box, how it's kind of bent and torn up.

BALDWIN: Mangled.

ULANOFF: So these phones, even if they survived, are going to be damaged in some way. They are not going to be in any condition to just connect to the Internet and start uploading things back to the cloud, because that's what has to happen. Now, they have to get out of a remote area, they have to find Internet access, the phone has to be able to turn on, have power, connect up and be in working order. That's a big if.

The other big if is that this is (INAUDIBLE). We're talking Android phones here because if you have an iPhone, it's going to have the storage basically fixed inside the technology. Much harder to access that. But if they did - say it was an Android phone -

BALDWIN: OK.

ULANOFF: Maybe it was a Kyocera Brigadier phone, which is, you know, military grade.

BALDWIN: OK.

ULANOFF: That happens. Now they have to find the phone undamaged. They have to find the card. Maybe the card is accessible. They pull it out of there. The card is a micro SD card is that big. It's not connected to anything. Now you have to get it out of that site, you have to plug it into a card reader, and you have to upload the information, upload whatever you find. Now, I would expect investigators to do this with whatever they find.

BALDWIN: Because it's all evidence.

ULANOFF: Exactly. It's all evidence. The fact that they're talking about the idea this got out of there and somebody uploaded it. Never - I've never heard of it before.

Also, I have to say that, I remember reading reports that people on the plane didn't know what was happening until the last five - roughly five minutes of the fight. Did they have the wherewithal to start pulling out their phones and calmly trying to capture the video?

BALDWIN: Well, it's a great question. And, Mary, I can't remember if it was you or a pilot I had, that it's actually urged, if someone has the presence of mind, knowing a plane is going down, to pull out a phone and take video. Members of the crew are urged to do that. So I want you to comment on that.

And, number two, I'm wondering, you know, because it's such a contrast between what this "Bild" editor is saying. He's saying, yes, I've seen the video, yes, we have this chip. And then you have these French investigators saying, no.

SCHIAVO: Right. Well, in my book that I wrote several years ago I said, if something happens on a plane, and I wasn't meaning only a crash, I mean any kinds of altercations, problems, mechanicals or a crash, take out your phone and start recording because often that is the best evidence and the only thing that's going to really tip us off. So I think several people have suggested that over time to do it. And do passengers do it? All you have to do is go back to the four planes on September 11, 2001, and on every single flight, the passengers were desperately trying to communicate, get messages back, call home and tell their loved ones one last time they loved them.

BALDWIN: What about, though, Mary, too, the fact that this "Bild" editor is saying one thing and these French investigators are saying another. I mean is it possible - and I've heard nothing but amazing things about any of these recovery crews at crash sites like this with just the upmost respect for, you know, the remains. The notion that there could be one nefarious soul who wants some pennies, nickels and dimes and takes the chip and sells it off?

SCHIAVO: Right. Right. It only takes one or a couple. And, you're right, the people who do this work, it's so traumatic to them to have to recover the remains and work these crashes. They're - they're really, you know, you know, terrific to go out there and do that.

[14:09:58] However, that being said, I have worked crashes and crash cases in the past where wallets have been stolen, rings have been stolen, cell phones have been stolen. We remember the pictures, by the way, from Malaysia Airlines that was shot down over the Ukraine.

ULANOFF: Yes.

SCHIAVO: That the suitcases there had been gone through. So, sadly, it happens.

ULANOFF: Well, I was going to say, remember that the audio was released early, you know, much earlier than investigators wanted, which gives details -

BALDWIN: It was a breach.

ULANOFF: Details of what was happening on the airplane in - in those final moments. And, of course, the video, which no one has seen, matches those details.

BALDWIN: Well, this editor would sit here and say he's seen it.

ULANOFF: Right. Exactly.

BALDWIN: It depends on who you talk to.

ULANOFF: And that's - and that's - and the idea of that. So it just calls it all into question.

I feel like we're seeing a triple rainbow. You know, this is what people want to see. They want to see the alignment of all these things. But the chances are pretty slim. You know, from my perspective, I understand that forensic science on a tech - on the tech level, it is doable. It is real. If something is - a burned hard drive, you can recover stuff but it is -

BALDWIN: But I hear you on the notion of possible triple rainbow, it seems next to impossible.

ULANOFF: Exactly.

BALDWIN: Lance Ulanoff, thank you. I appreciate it.

ULANOFF: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: And, Mary Schiavo, my thanks to you as well.

Next, as Duke University gets ready to play in the final four, a disturbing scene on their campus. You see this? A noose found hanging from a tree. We'll tell you the story and take you there to North Carolina.

Also ahead, ISIS claims Saddam Hussein's hometown is one of its biggest victories, but now Iraq says they've got it back. Why this could be a game changer.

And just a day after Indiana's governor took heat for signing a law critics say could allow discrimination against gays, the Republican governor in Arkansas now is refusing to sign a similar bill in his state until changes are made. Hear why, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:52] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

No question we'll show you, it's a disturbing picture, and it's raising a lot of concern among students at Duke University. Officials say an investigation is underway after this noose here was found hang around a tree at Bryan Center Plaza on campus. It has since been removed, but the photos of it have prompted outrage among students and on social media and beyond. I've got Amanda Lamb on the phone with me. She's with our affiliate WRAL in Durham, North Carolina.

And, Amanda, let's just begin with, you know, what - what is all this about? What are investigators finding?

AMANDA LAMB, WRAL REPORTER (via telephone): Well, right now they're really not saying much about the investigation, Brooke. All we know is that they did come to the scene at 2:00 this morning, after that noose was found hanging from a tree in front of the student center here on Duke's campus. And basically the reaction from students, from faculty, you know, from the leadership of the university down, is disgust, anger, sadness. Again, it is being investigated.

Just a little while ago, about 300 students marched across campus to that site where that noose was found hanging early this morning and they chanted, "we are not afraid. We stand together." This was actually hosted by the Black Student Alliance, but there were many different students in the crowd, a lot of diversity. And basically their message is, we are going to stand together, we're not going to let this divide our campus.

Because at this point they really don't even know whether or not this was done by somebody in the Duke community or somebody off campus. There are plenty of people who don't like Duke. It's unfortunate, but it is, you know, an ACC basketball season and so there's a thought that, hey, could this be a cruel joke? And, of course, it's not a joke. It's something that's really upset and disheartened a lot of people here at Duke.

BALDWIN: It's April Fools' Day. It would not be a laughing matter, even if this is kind of - some kind of final four prank.

LAMB: Yes.

BALDWIN: I guess, you know, my final question, you talk a little bit about students. What about the university and what other - what other events are planned?

LAMB: Yes, they - they're responding. They're calling it a cowardly act of bias. They've called it hateful, stupid. The vice president of student affairs, Larry Moneta, sent out a statement early this morning to students so they would know where the university stood. And basically he said, when I got up this morning and heard about this, I was angry and disgusted.

At 5:00 they will meet with students on the chapel steps, the iconic chapel here at Duke University, and they will address their concerns. And that's from if president, President Brodhead, of the university down several levels of leadership here at the school. They're going to talk to kids, let them ask questions and try to answer those questions. And, of course, you know, the investigation continues.

There are cameras here around the student center. I don't know if, you know, they were able to catch, you know, any video of the person who did this, or persons.

BALDWIN: Right.

LAMB: But they will be continuing to look into that.

BALDWIN: Well, keep us posted. We'll stay on it with you. Amanda Lamb, thank you very much and thank you to our affiliate WRAL for that.

Next, big story in Iraq. Forces there are claiming they have now liberated Saddam Hussein's hometown from the threat of ISIS terrorist. But here's the thing, ISIS left booby traps behind. CNN was there on the ground. We will take you to Tikrit. Do not miss this with Arwa Damon.

Also, the governor of Arkansas saying he will not sign a so-called religious freedom bill in its current form after huge backlash against a similar bill in Indiana. We'll talk with a state representative who made an 11th hour push to change everything.

You're watching CNN. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:23:40] BALDWIN: Now to the war on ISIS. The battle to retake the city of Tikrit from the militants appears to be won. Tikrit best known as Saddam Hussein's hometown. ISIS overtook this city. This is just north of Baghdad. As you can see, early last June, Iraqi forces launched their latest offensive nearly a month ago.

Today's declaration of victory comes nearly a week after U.S.-led air strikes targeted ISIS bases all around the city. And that allowed the Iraqi army, with the help from Shiite militia men and volunteers, backed by Iran, to liberate Tikrit. The prime minster even walked through today. Here he was waving the Iraqi flag, congratulating Iraqi security forces. And our senior correspondent, international correspondent, was on the ground, Arwa Damon, where ISIS is said to have left booby traps behind. Here - here she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the main road leading through Tikrit. This is the center of the city. That building we were told had a suicide bomber in it, a sniper on the roof. There's still various gunshots that you do hear. Pockets of resistance still exist.

That, the governor's compound. Now, when the Iraqi forces went inside, one of the majors was telling us it was booby trapped. The stairway had explosives in it. And when one of their officers stepped, it detonated. Two officers were killed, another three soldiers wounded inside there.

[14:25:12] And if we swing around a bit more, you still see smoke rising and you see plumes of smoke throughout the entire city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: My goodness, what a moment.

Let's go to the Pentagon, our correspondent there, Barbara Starr.

And let me just mention, you know, we'll be talking to Arwa next hour and just really kudos to Arwa and her crew for risking themselves to be able to show us this - this new version of Tikrit.

But, Barbara, you heard Arwa mention, there are pockets of resistance still there. How big are these pockets?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, U.S. officials are telling us, Brooke, it numbers in the hundreds of ISIS fighters still in various parts of the city. So the Iraqi forces and those Shia militiamen still have a lot of work to do. The big question right now is, can they hold onto the city? It's one thing to get inside, but can you hold onto it? Can you push ISIS out permanently?

Their challenge now will be not to do just that, but to begin to restore normalcy to the city. To have the local government come back in. To have people come back in, to have a sense of security, to have security forces able to maintain control. That may be a very tall order. But Tikrit is a very strategic place for the Iraqi forces because that highway goes on north to the city of Mosul.

BALDWIN: Mosul.

STARR: This is - this is the road to Mosul, and that is Iraq's second largest city that still remains, if you will, the big prize, so to speak, for Iraqi forces. They have got to get ISIS out of Mosul. Tikrit literally is on the road to doing that.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: That is precisely what I wanted to follow up with, talking to ambassador yesterday and saying, yes, to your point, they need to make sure they're holding onto Tikrit, but the next sty in their eyes have to be on Mosul, yes. STARR: Well, it does. And the side player in all of this, that isn't too much to the side anymore, is, in fact, Iran. The U.S. is adamant that these air strikes, the U.S. air strikes, are not to support the Iranian fighters on the ground, but to support the Iraqi government, which is in, as they say, command and control of the whole operation.

But, you know, make no mistake, the bulk of those forces in the Tikrit area are Iranian backed Shia militiamen of one sort or another. And Iranian backed are key words there because those U.S. air strikes are letting those Iranian backed militiamen make the progress that they have been making. So it's a marriage of convenience right now, even though the Pentagon doesn't really want to acknowledge it.

BALDWIN: Barbara Starr, thank you very much.

STARR: Sure.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, just one day after the governor of Indiana vowed to fix his state's religious freedom law, today the governor of Arkansas gave a news conference regarding a very similar bill and his news was that he says he won't sign the bill in its current form. Did he learn the lessons of what happened there in Indiana? We'll talk with a state representative who made an 11th hour push to change everything, next.

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