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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Money Talks In Argument Over "Religious Freedom" Legislation; Closing Arguments In Boston Marathon Bombing Case Due To Start Monday; Ailina Tsarnaev Arrested, Charged With Aggravated Harassment; Alexander Bradley's Testimony Damaging To Aaron Hernandez's Defense Case. Aired 12:30-1p

Aired April 01, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] LORI WINDHAM, BECKET FUND FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: We haven't seen this guy fall in Connecticut. I don't think this guy would fall in Indiana if they keep this language.

What you have to do when you go to court or you have to show there is a burden that it's really a serious one on your religious exercise.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Yeah.

WINDHAM: Show me something that it's likely in a legal sense and a legal case is actually pretty difficult. You think about the standards that it takes to win your case in court.

ARGUS (ph): Except -- except Lori -- except Lori --

WINDHAM: You actually have to put a lot of evidence on.

ARGUS (ph): Right, but Lori, what you've got here, the big distinction in Indiana is you've got now it's business to business or business individuals. You've taken government out of the picture and then the Arkansas law which they are not talking about, went one step further. It also had a clause in it that propose that the employer could impose restrictions or the burdens under the employee.

BANFIELD: Hey guys, I need to jump in only because I do have a lot of other breaking news today. But I also want to mention that Dannel Malloy who is the governor of Connecticut was on this -- not on this broadcast but the broadcast previous to mine yesterday, very, very critical Indiana law.

I am not sure if there's class protection for gays and lesbians in Connecticut but he's a Democratic governor. I will look into that but he was absolutely intense. And as actually stopped all state sponsored funding to anybody in his state that needs to go to --

ARGUS (ph): Right, that's right, they're not called in the NCAA.

WINDHAM: And I think that's -- this shows what a huge misunderstanding there is about what this law is and what it does. Going back to Mark's point about the private releases.

BANFIELD: Sadly I can not but, you know, what, I want to have you back on because I think you're very articulate when it comes to this issue and frankly we need a lot more minds on both sides of this to really hash (ph) to them, get people to understand what the implications are.

Lori Windham, thanks. Will you come back?

WINDHAM: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thank you so much. Mark Argus (ph) as always. It's great to have you.

ARGUS (ph): Good to see you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I'm not going to let you leave though.

So amid all of the screaming and the yelling in this religious freedom fight, don't forget there's always that mantra. Money talks, folks. Follow the money. Big and small businesses could have a massive impact on how this entire argument plays out state to state to state to state to state.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:33] So, if you have been caught up in a controversy over religious freedom laws, you've no doubt heard about the groups and the businesses and the sports leagues that oppose those laws on the grounds that they could be used to protect discriminatory practices. And that lots of critics say not so but the debate is out there and it's an ugly one.

I want to bring in CNN's Poppy Harlow. Both governors and legislators are one thing but big business changes the metric for everyone.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Big business changes in metric because every governor of every state wants big business to operate and headquartered in that state.

BANFIELD: And not leave.

HARLOW: And not leave. Look, we've heard from Nike saying the impose, this is bad for business, Wal-Mart coming out against the Arkansas law. You name a big business, Starbucks, Eli Lilly, the pharmaceutical giant, they are speaking out about this.

I sat down yesterday here in New York last night with Warren Buffett whose Berkshire Hathaway company --

BANFIELD: That's the granddaddy of big business.

HARLOW: Right, a multi-billionaire but whose company owns 70 plus different businesses that operate all of them in Indiana. Some of them are headquartered in Indiana. So, I asked him if he -- what he makes of the law and he said he hadn't read all the fine print but he certainly knows all about it and he said to the extent it could in any way be prejudicial to gays or lesbian, he opposes it and then we went on. Here's more. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The governor of Indiana, Mike Pence, had said this week that he will fix the law, that he will move to make sure that it does not discriminate against anyone.

However, when he was asked over the weekend whether he would add sexual orientation be in favor of adding sexual orientation to protected class in the State of Indiana, he said that that is not something that he is working towards right now.

What should be done to fix this?

WARREN BUFFET, CEO, BERKSHIRE COMPANY: Well, that sounds suspicious. Well, I think if people can exercise discrimination based on sexual orientation, then it's wrong. And I don't know how the law reads exactly so I don't know what words you would change.

But when you get all through and if that settles, if you read the law and you can discriminate against people based on sexual orientation, I would say that somebody better do something about it.

HARLOW: Do you think sexual orientation should be added as a protected class in the State of Indiana?

BUFFETT: Well, I think generally yeah, the answer is I think they are entitled to equal rights and equal acceptance and a 100 percent in the eyes of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Interesting Ashleigh, went on to ask him if this Indiana law does not change, would you pull your businesses out of the State of Indiana. He said, "Not at this point. It's up to the individual CEOs of those different companies." But clear that he's not a supporter of it.

BANFIELD: So fascinating. Again, a great scoop and a great get, Poppy thank you.

HARLOW: Thanks, Ash.

BANFIELD: And there's a lot more coming on your weekend program as well.

In the meantime, the defense in the Boston bombing trial has rested this after just two days or so. It's not even quite two days but guess what, it may have just ended but they're really just getting started. Kind of explain that one in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:41:35] BANFIELD: Now things are really moving along in the marathon bombing trial in Boston. Closing arguments are already due to start on Monday. And if Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is convicted it is going to be up to the jury to make a big, I mean the biggest decision. Does he live or does he die for the crime.

Yesterday the defense rested after really less than two days they're putting on four witnesses that was it. But the real work is ahead. They are not disputing that Tsarnaev was the bomber, they cited an openings with him. But they say his brother Tamerlan was really the guilty one, the ring leader, that Dzhokhar was just a follower.

For the legal view I want to bring in Criminal Defense Attorney Midwin Charles and Trial Attorney Jennifer Brandt.

So, ladies we've seen this before where you got such as thinker of a case to start with your job as a defense attorney is to save to the man's life and nothing else. Is that effectively what you're seeing here? And do they have a shot?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's effectively what I see them doing here and I think they're doing the best that they can, just like you said in your question defense attorneys are handed a case and they work with what they have.

What they've done with him is trying to humanize him. And that's always what you do whenever you have a client that is potentially facing the death penalty.

BANFIELD: But you have a young man, Jennifer getting in this courtroom who has not shed a tear, has not winced once when the clothes and underwear of an 8 year old boy shredded, melted, and covered in blood, were shown to everyone in jurors could barely keep it together.

Many of them crying openly in court and that young man has done nothing and he's expecting his lawyers somehow to make him kind and loving, invulnerable in human.

JENNIFER BRANDT, TRIAL ATTORNEY: I don't even think in so much about being kind and loving, invulnerable in human. I think it's the fact that the death penalty in federal cases is rarely effective. And we've seen over history that it's really to take granted --

BANFIELD: But Timothy McVeigh did that --

BRANDT: He did, but was quite a long time ago. And there are a lot of comparisons between the two cases. However if you recall with McVeigh there were a lot more people killed -- a lot more people injured. And in Massachusetts jurors kind of feel that, you know, they're not that much in favor of the death penalty.

So, I think it's going be hard to get death --

BANFIELD: Let me ask you --

BRANDT: Yes, but death is another thing.

BANFIELD: My all indications people sitting in the courtroom they do not like this guy. They do not like the evidence, they have been disgusted, they've shaken their heads, they've done all the things that you expect as a prosecutor home run right.

But now let me ask you this. If these jurors hate Dzhokhar Tsarnaev so much would they not prefer to see him rot for 60 years in a cell then maybe get an earlier four year out like Timothy McVeigh did when he said no thanks I don't need my appeals I want to go out not sit around in this stinking cell.

CHARLES: It's possible you never really know what the jury is thinking when they're looking at this kind of case. One can say "Oh yes let's have and sit in jail forever," that's better punishment then, you know, what Timothy McVeigh chose.

But it's very, very difficult to tell what the jury is thinking right now.

BANFIELD: But even if he gets the death penalty, even if he gets the death penalty there will be appeals.

CHARLES: Of course.

BANFIELD: He will be sitting around for a long time. And then not necessary Timothy McVeigh signed his ticket to the chair in four years and, you know, that to a lot of people was not much punishment for what he did.

Ladies all I have the time for right now. Jennifer Brandt, Midwin Charles as always thank you, appreciate it.

CHARLES: Thank you.

BRANDT: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So, you know, how dangerous the Tsarnaev brothers were. But have you heard about the sisters? Yes, the Tsarnaev sisters. They have a criminal past, their mom is at a whole bunch of trouble too. And let's just say they've even made threats.

[12:45:04] We'll going to find out more about these lovely ladies in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: The only person charged in the Boston Bombing is Dzhokhar Tsarnaev because he is the brother who survived all of the carnage in the aftermath.

His big brother Tamerlan, that guy, he got his when he was killed in a shootout with the police. But there's a whole lot more to this now notorious family than just those two brothers, there are these ladies.

CNN's Drew Griffin found the Tsarnaev sisters and the mother all of them who have a running with police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Silent, almost shy as she heads into Manhattan Criminal Court, Ailina Tsarnaev was according to prosecutors anything but when it came to a romantic rival.

According to a criminal complaint, Tsarnaev threatened a woman in a phone call this summer, saying "Leave my man alone, stop looping for him." And went on to say "I know people that can put a bomb where you live."

Considering who the threats came from, prosecutors didn't consider it a joke and it charged Tsarnaev with aggravated harassment, which she denies.

Leaving court she and her lawyer refused to discuss the case.

Can you tell us why she is accused of making these kinds of threats especially this family?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't comment on that, thank you.

[12:50:03] GRIFFIN: The Tsarnaev family first immigrated to the Boston area back in 2002.

The parents, fleeing a troubled region of Russia, were treated as legal residents and granted asylum, a status that open the door for taxpayer funded welfare.

The State of Massachusetts has confirmed the Tsarnaevs received food stamps, public housing, and other aid. On and off between 2002 and 2012. It was during this time that her brother Tamerlan began his conversion to Radical Islam, then according to investigators began filling his younger brother's head with a hatred towards the west.

Not much is known about the two Tsarnaev daughters, Ailina and Bella, though they both live together or near each other in New Jersey, though Muslim in appearance, their appearances in court represent a lifestyle at odds with the Islamic faith. Along with charges of making bomb threats, Ailina Tsarnaev has a past record that includes misleading police in a counterfeiting case. She pleaded guilty but got no jail time. She was also charged with leaving the scene of an accident but it was dismissed.

Her older sister, Bella, was charged with marijuana possession and intent to distribute after a 2012 arrest and entered into a pretrial intervention program.

Even their mother has had her issues with the law. Fleeing back to Russia in 2012 where she remains a fugitive. Records show Zubeidat Tsarnaev was arrested and charged in June 2012 for allegedly shoplifting $1,600 in women's clothing from a Boston area Lord and Taylor. She's wanted on felony charges of shoplifting and destruction of property.

In Russia, she has maintained her innocence in the shoplifting case while also calling the charges against their sons made up. Though not elaborating on her believes, Ailina Tsarnaev believes as her mother does that her surviving brother Dzhokhar and her dead brother Tamerlan are innocent.

AILINA TSARNAEV, BOSTON BOMBERS' SISTER: My brother got free.

GRIFFIN: Drew Griffin, CNN New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Charges made up. His own lawyers said in court he did it. Ailina Tsarnaev is out on bond until her next court appearance and if you're following, that's coming in May.

Got another gun now in the crosshairs of the Aaron Hernandez murder trial is the person he allegedly shot in the eye a couple of years ago takes the witness stand right across from him. Why do you think that mood was?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:25] BANFIELD: Of all the people to testify against Aaron Hernandez, this is one guy who the defense lawyers really didn't want anywhere near their courtroom because his name is Alexander Bradley, and he was Hernandez's right-hand man until Hernandez allegedly shot him in the face. He lost his sight in one eye. Here are some choice pictures of him.

Allegedly Bradley was with Hernandez the night that Hernandez allegedly shot and killed two men in Boston in 2012. Yes, there are those cases still to come down the road. Jury is not going to hear any of all of these though, none, nothing. But, Bradley did testify about seeing something important, Hernandez with guns -- particularly one gun inside a lock box in the basement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This box, this black box, did you ever see it in an open condition?

ALEXANDER BRADLEY, HERNANDEZ'S FORMER FRIEND: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who had opened it?

BRADLEY: Mr. Hernandez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when it was in an open condition, did you ever see the contents inside?

BRADLEY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what did you see inside?

BRADLEY: A firearm, money, marijuana joints.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. When you say "A firearm" just describe what color was the firearm?

BRADLEY: It was silver grayish colored with a brown handle. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That is never what you want to hear especially if you're facing down murder charges.

Susan Candiotti is with me live now. Look, we're still missing a murder weapon here. We have a lock box that got taken out and thrown away by girl, who has already admitted that on the stand. And now we have a witness saying he saw a gun in a lock box. This can not be going over well.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It cannot, but -- and maybe that wasn't the murder weapon but he -- Bradley does testify that he saw Aaron Hernandez holding or handling a Glock during a trip to Florida with him. He said he handled it and then appear to leave it in the hotel room. This is important because the judge ruled it at least shows that he had access to a Glock that was in the presence of another man in Florida who Aaron Hernandez had given money to to ship guns to him. That's already come out during the course of this trial so that could be equally important.

But also, this is a man who was so close to Aaron Hernandez that Hernandez named this man, Bradley, as godfather to his child. But he also said that Hernandez had trouble trusting people. That's significant, Ashleigh, because of a text that Aaron Hernandez sent two days before Lloyd is murdered. And that text said, "I was mad at myself because I told Odin Lloyd about a spot" and that could be motive, prosecutor say.

BANFIELD: OK, Susan Candiotti, I've only got a couple of seconds left but I can't imagine the mood between these two. That guy got shot in the face allegedly by the guy who he's facing down in court. Did you sense a very uncomfortable existence in there?

CANDIOTTI: Oh yeah, they're staring each other down. No love lost here, that's for sure. But he also said some very bizarre things about him that the jury will never hear and that is that he stated that Aaron Hernandez was paranoid, always thought the police were following him on the ground and even in helicopters, and he didn't trust people using iPhones because he thought that they could eavesdrop on him. Bizarre.

BANFIELD: Wow. Susan Candiotti is covering this live. Yes, something everyday.

Thank you so much, Susan. And I'll let you get back into that courtroom and we're going to continue with the updates on that throughout the day.

In the meantime, thanks so much for watching.

[13:00:10] Brianna Keilar is going to step in for Wolf, and she starts right now.