Return to Transcripts main page
Quest Means Business
Leaders Agree on Nuclear Deal Parameters; Oil Prices Slide on Nuclear Deal Parameters; Al-Shabaab Attacks Kenyan University Campus; Second Germanwings Black Box Found; Germanwings Pilot Feared Losing License; Lufthansa Could Face Unlimited Liability
Aired April 02, 2015 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
Airing 4-4:30pET>
[16:00:00] (NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE CLOSING BELL)
PAULA NEWTON, HOST: And the bell rings in New York as we go into a holiday weekend. US markets climb as world powers strike a historic deal
with Iran. It's Thursday, the 2nd of April.
Tonight, a breakthrough agreement. Leaders from across continents hail a nuclear deal that could transform the Middle East.
Also tonight, carnage at a Kenyan university -- 147 people slaughtered by al-Shabaab.
And a crucial clue uncovered in the Alps. The second black box has been recovered in the Germanwings crash site.
I'm Paula Newton and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Good evening. Tonight, a historic moment for Iran's relations with the rest of the world. The US and other global powers have agreed on the
general terms of a deal to keep Iran's nuclear program peaceful.
Those were at talks in Lausanne in Switzerland and Tehran would be required to greatly reduce its enrichment capacity and stockpile and open
the country's nuclear facilities to surveillance by international inspectors. In return, US sanctions against Iran would be gradually lifted
so long as Iran complies. Now, Iran's foreign minister says it would be a crucial breakthrough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMAD JAVAD ZARIF, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: When we implement our measures, there won't be no (sic) sanctions against the Islamic Republic of
Iran. And that, I think, would be a major step forward. We have stopped a cycle that was not in the interest of anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Hala Gorani is live for us in Lausanne, Switzerland. Hala, historic doesn't begin to cover it. I heard one person describe this as
really ending what has been a protracted decades-long war between the United States and Iran.
Look, we got a few more details than we were expecting. At the crux of it, why did the diplomats look so happy today? They were really on the
edge of being jubilant.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think potentially it's because there really were hurdles that looked to really --
hurdles that appeared to be difficult to overcome just a few days ago.
There's a reason the talks went for eight days, and that's because if this document, the fact sheet that was released today, had been something
easy to compile, then we would have gotten it several days ago.
I think part of the reason as well there is an air of celebration and a tone of celebration in their voice is because it did present this
agreement in a way that appears as though it is beneficial to both sides, both the P5+1 and Iran as well.
But when you really look at what Iran is giving up, it is giving up thousands of centrifuges. It is keeping Fordow, the underground once-
secret nuclear facility, but it's only going to become a research and development facility that will not have the ability to process uranium at
the kind of potency or grade that would allow it to achieve a nuclear weapon.
On the side of Western powers, really, they're seeing this as a victory in the sense that this diplomatic discussion and this diplomatic
process has achieved something that is measurable, with details that we were not expecting.
As far as Iran is concerned, this also is a victory because the sanctions lifting timeline is becoming a little bit clearer. Western
countries -- the US secretary of state John Kerry said that sanctions will be lifted incrementally as it is being verified that Iran will comply with
the deal.
The foreign minister of Iran has said that when the process is completed, all sanctions against Iran will be lifted. So, both sides have
given a slightly different version of events in terms of sanctions and no clear timeline, but both eventually kind of meeting at that end point that
once this is all said and done and it is verified that Iran has complied with the terms of this deal that these crippling sanctions will be lifted.
And because you are here hosting QUEST MEANS BUSINESS and our audience is so interested in business news, the very, very important thing for Iran
are these banking and trade sanctions.
They are not able to conduct business with the rest of the world, they're not able to transfer money, their banks our sanctioned and
isolated. And once these sanctions are lifted, it will really allow the country once again to be able to trade with the rest of the world,
especially Western countries.
NEWTON: It will be absolutely transformative, and I think, Hala, that's why we have certainly seen some very cautious optimism in Iran as
well this evening. Hala Gorani there in Lausanne. It was an incredibly long day, thank you so much, Hala, appreciate it.
[16:04:58] Now, speaking at the White House, President Obama said the deal gives Iran a chance to engage with the international community.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This framework gives Iran the opportunity to verify that its program is, in fact, peaceful. It
demonstrates that if Iran complies with its international obligations, then it can fully rejoin the community of nations, thereby fulfilling the
extraordinary talent and aspirations of the Iranian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Oil prices fell Tuesday as investors sensed that nuclear deal was coming. Now, Iran has the fourth-largest proven oil reserves in the
world. If sanctions are eased, it could mean Iran gets to export more of its oil, adding to overall supplies.
Now, Karim Sadjadpour is the senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and former chief Iran analyst for the
International Crisis Group. Thanks so much for joining us.
I mean, I hate to boil it down to this, but you know people around the world will, especially people in Congress and those in Iran. As a zero-sum
game here, who came out on top? Was it Iran or was it the Western powers?
KARIM SADJADPOUR, FORMER CHIEF IRAN ANALYST, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: The agreement I've seen that the US government has released looks
like a very strong deal for the United States. I think it's going to be difficult for critics of President Obama to claim they have a better
alternative to this.
I think it remains in question whether the Iranians are working from that exact same document. We'll see more tomorrow. Tomorrow is Friday,
there's the Friday prayers in Tehran, and I think the senior officials in Iran will have to weigh in.
But it is rare, as you said, to have a win-win in international diplomacy, certainly between the United States and Iran. But based on what
we know so far, this is, I think, the closest we've seen to such a win-win.
NEWTON: Yes, extraordinary that we did end up getting those details. Could you kind of bring me some insight into what this will mean for Iran
economically? And I do want to preface this by saying that President Obama was very clear in saying, look, we have some economic measures that will
remain in place.
Those are tied to ballistic missile, human rights violations that Iran has made, and it's still being accused, let's not forget, of being a
sponsor of terrorism in certain places around the world, namely right now in Yemen. Can this be transformative, though, for Iran, depending on how
and when those sanctions are lifted?
SADJADPOUR: It won't be transformative immediately. I don't think you'll have McDonald's opening up in Tehran anytime soon. But you will
start to see more economic interaction between Chinese companies, Indian companies, and then starting with European companies. Especially,
obviously, in the energy sector.
Major banks are cautious institutions, so I think they'll wait to see how this plays out, especially given the fact that the sanctions that were
passed by Congress aren't going to be actually lifted by Congress, they're going to be waived by the president in, perhaps, two, three-month
increments.
So, I think you'll see a gradual easing of the sanctions, but I should say, we don't want to get too ahead of ourselves. It is a happy moment,
but this is the engagement was announced today was the engagement. The wedding is scheduled to take place in July. But there's going to be a
vigorous debate about the prenuptial agreement, and there's no guarantee that that wedding will take place on time.
NEWTON: And so that we don't have an all-out brawl at this wedding, we're going to set this table further, Karim. What does President Obama
and the other European powers have to do to really settle the nerves of Arab powers here and, of course, Israel, and their opposition to this has
been ferocious.
I think you will see statements from US officials coming out very strongly in support of partners in the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia, the UAE.
Certainly you'll have strong statements of solidarity for Israel, and the word "sacrosanct" will be used with regards to Israel's security, trying to
reassure Israel's leadership. So, that's something that certainly is going to need to be done.
But regarding members of Congress, what animates them most about Iran is really Iran's position in the region and their support for the Assad
regime in Syria, their opposition to Israel. And so, it is a tough sell for members of Congress to say, OK, let's offer Iran economic relief at a
time when they're using their wealth to challenge US interests in the region.
NEWTON: Yes, and one thing you cannot deny, those sanctions did get Iran to the negotiating table. Karim, thanks so much for your insights
tonight. We appreciate it.
SADJADPOUR: Anytime, thank you.
[16:10:02] NEWTON: Thank you. Now, a horrific attack on a university in Kenya. Al-Shabaab militants target a college, killing close
to 150 people. We're live in the capital next. We'll have the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: A bloody siege at a university in Kenya is now -- has a death toll now with over 147 people have been confirmed dead, and we should say
it is over. These pictures show Kenyan forces moving in to end the attack. Militants stormed the campus before dawn, shooting students and taking
hostages.
Earlier, it was a scene of chaos as the campus was evacuated. Authorities say the military operation to end the siege is now over, and
four gunmen have been killed. But the al Qaeda-linked group, al-Shabaab, says it's behind the attack. A student described the terror when the
gunmen opened fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard some gunshots when we were sleeping, so it was around 5:00. And guys started jumping up and down, running for
their lives. But it's unfortunate that where they were going to is where the gunshots were coming from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, this isn't the first attack by al-Shabaab militants in Kenya. You'll remember the deadliest assault was on the Westgate shopping
mall in Nairobi in September 2013. The terror group is based in neighboring Somalia.
Today's attack was on a university near the Kenyan-Somali border. We want to bring in CNN's Soni Methu for the latest on the situation. Soni,
for the entire country, really, a horrific day of waiting to see if the siege would end. It has ended.
I see that the Kenya national disaster operation is saying that all students are now accounted for. What is the sense there of will they find
more students who have been killed, or can we be assured that this is the worst of it?
SONI METHU, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's happening in Kenya is a lot of mourning, a lot of complaining, a lot of questions,
what could have been? What should have been?
And according to the police and the communication between the police and the journalists and also the citizens of the country, they feel
something is always being held back when such attacks happen. For example, in Westgate, at first it started as a robbery, the number of attackers was
said to be so high, then reduced to four.
So there are fears, indeed, that this number could rise. This number could be less than what is actually on the ground. But we can't confirm
that for sure. The area was under -- it was heavily guarded throughout the siege from 5:30 AM to late in the evening. No one could access the area or
even come close to the area.
So, people are fearful that the number could rise, there could be more than what the government is willing to put out there. But there's hope
that the siege is over. And again, there's a curfew right now from 6:30 AM to 6:30 PM. So Garissa is basically a ghost town.
We are hoping for more information tomorrow and hoping that the death toll is just 147. This is, indeed, an unbearable number for Kenyans.
NEWTON: Absolutely. And again, the question out there is still, did any of these militants slip away? Do they have -- they said that one was -
- all were killed, one had been killed earlier as he tried to get away. That would be a number of five. Were there more who managed to escape?
[16:15:04] Soni, everyone is wondering of the security situation in Kenya right now, not just in Garissa, to the east. Amnesty International
lending its voice and saying that look, Kenya remains unsafe and has been, and that they are calling on security authorities to really do a thorough
security assessment.
Are you seeing anything there right now that would tell you that security posture within Kenya now will change, and change immediately?
METHU: Well, people are already complaining, those who dare to compare this attack with that of Westgate, saying that this was a school,
this was quite a remote area, that it is in a very porous border, there have been various attacks in Garissa.
As you rightly mentioned, the UK issued an alert just on Friday saying that this area in the coastal part of Kenya, including and out into Garissa
is not safe to go to. And this, a lot of people are asking, did the government react well enough? Did they react swiftly enough? Could this
have been prevented? Could it have been foiled?
But then again, the security forces have been able to foil quite a few attacks recently. One of them was actually targeted at an out market here
in Nairobi, and the police successfully foiled it recently.
So, according to the government, they're doing enough. There are people complaining that there's a breakdown between intelligence services,
police forces, and the men on the ground. The communication there is actually a bit lacking, according to the critics.
But according to the president, he actually once said that the people, the international community who have this information, who are issuing this
alert and are willing to give the Kenyan forces enough information to act on something.
The alerts are usually blanket alerts, not very specific on any location. This was an imminent attack that had been issued an alert about,
and according to a lot of people, the response is not good enough.
But the government has now issued a directive that over 10,000 policemen will now go to be -- for training, and the government will speed
up the process to get the security forces beefed up and the numbers bigger. Because the president himself issued a statement saying that the personnel
is lacking when it comes to security in Kenya.
NEWTON: Yes, a statement that certainly no one in Kenya wants to hear. Thank you, Soni, on what is a very tragic day in that country. We
appreciate your time.
Now, ahead on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, a crucial piece of the Germanwings Flight 9525 wreckage has been found, and as startling details about Andreas
Lubitz emerge, we'll speak to an aviation lawyer about the airline's potential liability.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Recovery workers in France have found the second black box from Germanwings Flight 9525. Now, the flight data recorder was buried at
the crash site and had been badly burned. Investigators hope it will still yield vital clues about what happened aboard the plane before it crashed.
Karl Penhaul joins us now from Marseilles in France where prosecutors obviously are relived that they're going to get this piece of information
there. In terms of this being another clue, we had the cockpit voice recorder. Why is this recorder also very crucial in this investigation?
[16:20:00] KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is crucial, Paula, because they'll use the data that comes from the flight
data recorder, the second black box, and they'll compare that to the information that is on the cockpit voice recorder.
On the flight data recorder, there are about 500 different parameters that it would also give them clear clues as to altitude, air speed, and
also the heading that the plane was on at the time. It will allow investigators to look exactly at what kind of changes and what kind of
settings the co-pilot dialed in to the controls there just before the crash.
Already what the French prosecutor said was that they know now that as the alarms were going off, as the speed alarms were going off just instants
before the crash that the co-pilot made conscious efforts to stop those alarms going off, maybe pulling the nose of the plane up a bit to ensure
that the alarm stopped, but that he could carry on with his plan to crash the plane.
That is why the French prosecutor says he is still sure that this was a deliberate act and that the co-pilot was conscious when he crashed that
plane.
Now just incidentally, it took just over a week to find this second black box, A because it was badly burned, and so it was the same color as
the rock around in this steep-sided ravine, but also the second point, it was actually buried because of the speed of the crash, and it was buried up
to a depth of 20 centimeters. Paula?
NEWTON: Incredible. And what you described there is what the prosecutor claims has been a chillingly deliberate motive on the part of
that co-pilot. I mean, Karl, you have been to that site, and you just described how difficult it was to look at that data recorder.
Going forward, what do you think will give any kind of comfort to the families in terms of having all the pieces of the puzzle, all the clues
brought together so that they know categorically what happened on that airplane?
PENHAUL: Well, in terms of small consolations, Paula -- and it is, of course, a small consolation, given the scale of this tragedy, the
prosecutor did say today that they now have 150 separate DNA profiles. What does that mean? Well, it means that they have remains from 150
different people.
That is good news in a sense, because at one point, what investigators are saying, given the speed of the crash, some of those bodies may have
been pulverized, and some of the families may be getting no remains back in order to bury them.
So today, what the French prosecutor said is that essentially all the families could end up getting remains back for burial. Now, the process of
identification, that is still going to take some time. They'll compare the DNA that they've picked up from the crash site with DNA that relatives have
given them.
But also, the prosecutor said that as each individual set of remains is identified, that will be given back to the family, that the process of
identification is starting off just after Easter, Paula.
NEWTON: As you said, and important moment of closure for many of those families. Karl Penhaul in Marseilles, thanks so much.
Now, new details are emerging about the motives of Andreas Lubitz. Now, the Germanwings co-pilot was, quote, "very afraid he would lose his
license." That's according to a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.
Lubitz relapsed with severe depression late last year, the source said. Leading up to the crash, he had seen as many as six doctors.
Prosecutors say a tablet seized from the pilot's home -- the co-pilot's home reveals he was researching ways to commit suicide, and he searched the
internet for information about cockpit door security measures.
The question looms, how did much did Lubitz's employer know? Diana Magnay reports from Dusseldorf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A little more than 48 hours after Flight 9525 crashed into an Alpine mountainside,
killing all onboard, Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr made this statement about the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz.
CARSTEN SPOHR, CEO, LUFTHANSA (through translator): There was -- I want to mention this -- a longer break in his training six years ago. But
after his qualifications had been checked again, he had taken up again his training. Following that, he passed all medical and flight-related tests.
He was 100 percent fit to fly without any limitations or requirements.
MAGNAY: Five days later, the global media in feverish speculation as to Lubitz's mental health, Lufthansa admitted it had found an e-mail from
Lubitz written in 2009 informing the company of a previous episode of severe depression.
Hours later, on his first visit to the crash site, Spohr came under fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, when did you find the 2009 e-mail from Lubitz? When did you find it?
SPOHR: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. There's no --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did it take you so long to publish the e-mail?
[16:25:00] MAGNAY: So, what did Lufthansa know when, and did it miss a red flag along the way? In 2009, Lubitz broke off his training at the
Lufthansa flight training school. In order to be accepted back, he needed a doctor's note proving he was up to it, which Lufthansa says he sent to
them.
MAGNAY (on camera): That certificate simply states that after assessment, a doctor considers him fit to fly a plane. Because of patient
confidentiality, it doesn't include any detail as to his medical history or what kind of treatments he's received. Fit to fly or not fit to fly,
that's all the information an employer is entitled to.
MAGNAY (voice-over): It was Lubitz who went one step further, adding a note to say he'd had depression alongside the doctor's medical
certificate which proves that he was better. A clean bill of health, then. So, Lufthansa let him resume his training.
In 2013, he passed a series of tests to get his pilot's license, medical and psychological, no flags raised. And each year after that, at
his annual medical checkup, his doctors gave him the go-ahead. As far as Lufthansa was concerned, his medical records were clean. The bout of
depression he'd admitted to in the past just that, a thing of the past.
SIMON WESSELY, PRESIDENT, ROYAL COLLEGE OF PSYCHIATRISTS: When someone is depressed, it's absolutely clear in this country, and I imagine
everywhere, that you cannot fly an aircraft. And that's clear. The discussion really is about what happens if you've had a history of mental
disorder, should you then be banned forever from certain professions?
MAGNAY: Lubitz had dreamt of flying since boyhood. He'd hoped the depression which grounded him during training wouldn't come back. But
clearly recently, something psychologically had shifted. Something which this time around, he wouldn't admit to and couldn't shake off.
Diana Magnay, CNN, Dusseldorf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Elmar Giemulla is an aviation lawyer. He joins us now from Valletta in Malta. What everyone's wondering now is, if Lufthansa clearly
knew that he had had this depressive episode, even though days before the CEO had declared that he had been fit to fly on the last medical test, does
this mean that Lufthansa basically has unlimited liability in this case, that they were clearly at fault?
ELMAR GIEMULLA, PROFESSOR OF AVIATION LAW: Lufthansa has unlimited liability anyway because under the Montreal Convention, which covers the
international liability in air transport law, this is a no-fault liability, which means that the passengers, the survivors do not have to prove any
fault on the side of the carrier.
They receive unlimited liability. And whether or not the fault of Lufthansa was a light fault or a grave fault, this has absolutely no
influence on liability.
NEWTON: What will influence the situation in terms of Lufthansa going forward and in terms of what the families can rightly expect from the
airline?
GIEMULLA: Our problem here in Germany is that our law does not accept, does not acknowledge the so-called emotional damage. The only
thing which is to be compensated is financial loss, which is close to being ridiculous or even offensive, because it's just funeral cost, travel cost
to the crash site, and all these kinds of things.
This has all -- this compensation has already been offered by Lufthansa, an allowance to pay 50,000 per family, which would cover these
tiny costs. And then, there will be some other financial losses, such as maintenance costs. If a breadwinner died on the plane, of course, the
surviving children and spouses have a maintenance claim, which much be compensated by the company.
But if you look at the structure of the passengers, a very large number of younger people and children have been onboard, and they are not
obliged to pay maintenance to anybody. So, I guess that the pure financial damage to Lufthansa is to pay -- maybe a two-digit million figure, so very,
very low figure indeed.
Real consequences of a crash and the destruction not just of the physical lives of the passengers, but he destruction of the families, the
completely new orientation of the surviving families, the suffering -- the pain and suffering they have to go on, this is not acknowledged by German
law.
And I assume Lufthansa, I know, Lufthansa will acknowledge this and pay something for this without being legally obliged to.
NEWTON: And certainly many people would be hoping that, as you used the right word there, the destruction, truly, of some of these families who
lost their loved ones there in the Alps.
I thank you for clarifying this. I don't think that was known by many people, that really that liability was a bit limited. Thank you so much
for your time this evening.
Now, police have declared a curfew following an attack that has left 147 people dead at a university in Kenya. A look at the terror group
behind the massacre. That's up next.
[16:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, I'm Paula Newton. Coming up in the next half hour of "Quest Means Business," we'll
be live in Jerusalem as the world react to the historic nuclear deal with Iran.
And we'll speak to the founder of Airbnb about how the company's moving into Cuba. Before that though, these are the top news headlines we're
following for this hour. The U.S. and global powers have agreed on the general terms of the deal to
keep Iran's nuclear program peaceful. Tehran would be required to reduce its enrichment stockpile and open nuclear facilities to international
inspectors. Sanctions against Iran would be gradually lifted. In Kenya 147 people have died and 79 others have been wounded in an attack
on a university. The four gunmen who stormed the campus have all been killed according to the interior ministry. The Islamic militant group al-
Shabaab is claiming responsibility for the attack. A troubling prison break in Yemen today. You're looking at pictures of when government forces clashed with suspected al-Qaeda fighters. Militants
attacked a jail in al- Mukalla, freeing nearly 300 inmates. CNN's Nic Robertson is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh with the latest developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well that jail break coming in the southern port city of Mukalla - it was and is a
stronghold for the southern separatists loyal to President Hadi. But al- Qaeda fighters surrounded the jail, 270 prisoners freed, one-third of them believed to be al-Qaeda fighters.
A senior al-Qaeda figure who'd been in jail for four or five years - Khaled al-Batarfi - he was freed from jail. That, a concern for
authorities. But what it shows is the breakdown in central authority in the country right now.
Aden - intense fighting around Aden. Saudi forces say that they've been bombing the roads leading to the city. The stock (ph) Houthis getting in
and taking control of it, yet Houthi special forces - a small number of them - landed by boat, got into the old part of the city, engaged in fire
fights there around the old parliament building. Also Houthi has taken control of President Hadi's palace. He fled the
country a few days ago. Now the Houthis say they're in control of his palace there. Not tactically significant. But again, it is another
location that is in the hands in a stronghold really of the southern separatists.
But what is happening we can see is that the battle in Aden, the separatists losing ground. Perhaps the Saudi airstrike not as effective as
they perhaps hoped about keeping the Houthi rebels out. So Aden right now a very fluid situation according to the International Committee for the Red
Cross. They say they're concerned about civilian casualties. They don't know how many casualties there are.
[16:35:05] They say the hospitals are inundated, and their real concern is they cannot get more medical supplies into those hospitals - a real
concern. Aden it seems a very volatile situation there right now. Nic Robertson, CNN Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
NEWTON: Recovery workers in the French Alps have found the second black box from Germanwings flight 20 - 9525. It was buried some 20
centimeters below the surface below the surface and was badly burned. But authorities are hopeful the flight data recorder inside will be helpful in
gaining a clearer picture of what happened before the crash. Now the leaders of seven U.K. political parties are taking part in the only
jointly-televised debate ahead of the country's May 7th election. You are watching now live pictures from the debate in the city of Salford in
England. Incumbent Prime Minister David Cameron and the main challenger labor party leader Ed Miliband are locked in a race that apparently right
now is too close to call. Now today's massacre in Kenya is the latest in a string of high-profile attacks by al-Shabaab. The Somalia-based terror group is claiming
responsibility for the deadly assault on Garissa University. At least 147 people have been killed and dozens more have been wounded. Phil Black has
the full story.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
(CRYING)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A woman breaks down. Her grief is overwhelming. This is the local hospital in Garissa, its beds filled with
dozens of people, most suffering gunshot injuries.
(SOUND OF AMBULANCE)
BLACK: The gunmen stormed Garissa University College before dawn. Panicked students fled, security forces rushed in to lock down the campus.
They cornered the gunmen in one building and that's where they stayed through the day.
This brazen assault on civilians, the drawn-out siege - it's a disturbingly familiar scenario for Kenyans. In September 2013, al-Shabaab gunmen
stormed the Westgate Shopping Mall in Nairobi, killing 67 people. They held out for days against security forces and were rewarded with prolonged
media coverage. That event left many Kenyans angry and deeply suspicious of their
government's ability to deal with the terror threat from neighboring Somalia. After this latest attack, the Kenyan president admitted the
country needs more police officers but insisted the government is doing everything possible.
UHURU KENYATTA, PRESIDENT OF KENYA: I also assure the nation that my government has undertaken appropriate deployment to the affected area and
is fully seized (ph) of the situation.
BLACK: The government also named a suspect, issuing this wanted poster and a reward of more than $200,000 for Mohamed Mahamoud. Al-
Shabaab's control of territory in Somalia has been significantly reduced and key leaders have been killed by American strikes.
But the University attack shows it still has the ability to reach across Kenya's border and inflict great pain. Phil Black, CNN London.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
NEWTON: Now, al-Shabaab has extracted tens of millions of dollars from the regions across Somalia it has controlled. The
group currently has strongholds along the country's coast. Much of the militants' funding comes from implementing illegal taxes and fees in these
areas that you can see here, particularly at airports and seaports. Now, Somali security sources say the group is also involved in
sophisticated extortion schemes targeting small businesses and companies. Also, it receives monetary contributions from other terrorist groups and
donations from Somalis living overseas. Now, from its start as an al-Qaeda offshoot in Somalia, al-Shabaab has moved to an increasingly bold attacks across East Africa. It has also
grown into an economic force in the region. Joining me now is Ken Menkhaus, a political science professor and expert on al-Shabaab. Thanks
so much for joining us. When we talk about financial resources, we're talking about them operating
pretty much like an - a -- mafia there. We're not talking on the level of ISIS, but how much damage can they do? How many resources do they have?
KEN MENKHAUS, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, DAVIDSON COLLEGE: They have more than enough resources to launch the kind
of terrorist attacks that we saw today which are really quite low-cost to the group.
They were for a time earning - we estimate - between $50 and $70 million a year just in taxing and controlling charcoal exports out of Somalia.
That's a lot of money that can do a lot of great damage in the region.
[16:40:02] NEWTON: And when we talk about what happened today - again, those soft targets - they are essentially being
able to recruit people, they have arms, they have weapons and they obviously have some ungoverned spaces in both Kenya and Somalia where they
can basically do what they want. Have you seen a change in this organization, especially when it comes to
being able to expand and recruit sympathizers within Kenya?
MENKHAUS: They have. They have been exploiting grievances in Kenya among Somali Kenyans which were a large group among
Kenyan Muslims along the coast and they've also been recruiting in some of Kenya's large slums. They've been converting young Christian slum-dwellers
and then radicalizing them, and in some cases not even radicalizing them - simply paying them to engage in some of these attacks.
So they're reach in Kenya is now significant. I would consider them as much a home-grown threat in Kenya as a cross-border threat.
NEWTON: What an incredible transformation for their organization. You know, President Kenyatta in Kenya is very
sensitive to this. He's accused many people of slandering the country by saying it's not safe, and yet do you see the al-Shabaab threat growing,
even being able to reach like it did in 2013 into the capital Nairobi?
MENKHAUS: Well, the threat that the group poses is going to be especially strong in Northern Kenya where they can operate
relatively easily because that's an area inhabited primarily by Somalis as well as along the coast where they can move around in the Swahili-inhabited
areas. Nairobi will continue to be a top priority for them if they can get to it. But security has been enhanced. I think it's harder for the group to engage
in these kinds of actions without going undetected there.
NEWTON: Which is why you saw those soft targets. I want to talk to you about something that's been very uncomfortable for
many of us to hear, but the one thing that eyewitnesses said on the ground was that they had divided in this particular instance Muslim from
Christians and now we have absolutely unconfirmed reports that Christian students were beheaded.
Would this surprise you to learn of the fact? Because, look, they've, you know, had indiscriminant violence towards Muslims as well. Would this
surprise you though that they're using this as a tactic?
MENKHAUS: No, this actually forms part of a pattern that the group has embraced since the Westgate Mall attack. In
subsequent major massacres, they have been explicitly trying to separate Muslims from Christians and then massacring the Christians. And the reason
for this is that they are trying to do everything they can to drive a wedge between Kenya's Muslim community and the Kenyan government and the rest of
Kenyan society. That's one of the reasons why they're also trying to reduce the extent to which they're alienating Muslim populations on which they hope to depend
and recruit although I have to say the vast majority of Kenyan Muslims and Kenyan-Somalia Muslims are appalled by this violence.
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely and it seems to be definitely as you say gripping more people in the east of the country.
Ken, can't thank you enough for your insights in this. Appreciate it.
MENKHAUS: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, world powers reach an agreement on Iran's nuclear program. The U.S. hails the deal. Israel has been a
staunch opponent. We get the reaction from there. That's up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:23] NEWTON: We want to return now to our top story - that agreement on a framework for a nuclear deal with Iran.
Now, Israel's government has been a vocal critic of the talks. We want to go live to Jerusalem. CNN's Oren Liebermann is there for us now and I'm
told that you have some news about Israel's official reaction to this.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN ISRAEL CORRESPONDENT: We just got an official response from Israeli government officials. I want to read
this to you. This not an official translation but it is our translation here. It reads, "This is a poor framework that will lead to a bad and
dangerous agreement. If an agreement is reached on the basis of this framework, it will result in an historic mistake that will make the world a
far more dangerous place. This framework gives international legitimacy to Iran's nuclear program that aims only to produce nuclear bombs. Iran will continue to have
extensive nuclear capabilities, it will continue to enrich uranium, it will continue research and development of centrifuges, it will not close any of
its nuclear facilities including underground facilities at Fordow and more. The bottom line is this deal ensures Iran complete removal of sanctions
against its nuclear program, ensuring that it will keep its nuclear capabilities. Iran is not required to stop its aggression in the region,
its terror in the world and its treats to destroy Israel which it repeatedly stated in recent days.
This deal folds to Iranian demands and it will not be used for peaceful nuclear purposes but for purposes of nuclear war. The alternative to a bad
deal is not a war but another agreement that significantly dismantles Iran's nuclear infrastructure and demands it ceases its aggression and
terror in the region and the world." Again, that is a statement from Israeli government officials that we got
into our bureau here just a few minutes ago. So some very, very strong words, some very critical words of this nuclear deal from the Israeli
government here. They've been critical of this deal from the very beginning, especially
Netanyahu - perhaps the most outspoken critic internationally of this deal. And he spoke against a number of the elements that we hard coming out of
this deal. He spoke against centrifuges and research, underground facilities and sanctions here and those are the details we saw coming out
of this agreement. And though that's what we hear being lobbied against in this statement - again, this latest statement from Israeli government
officials here. Paula.
NEWTON: Now, Oren, if we move away from the official reaction from the government, as a wider issue here - if we talk
to the people of Israel who obviously feel very threatened by Iran having any kind of a nuclear weapon of any kind - do you see pockets of support by
this - if they take President Obama at his word. And he's saying that, look, Iran will be completely neutralized by this.
LIEBERMANN: Well there are certainly a number of people here who didn't agree what Netanyahu did in terms of speaking before
Congress who didn't agree with Netanyahu's approach here and who are much more - much more willing to trust President Obama with his approach to
this. You know, we saw Netanyahu's speech very much split people here and he's a
very divisive politician - a very polarizing politician here. So there are certainly people here who will agree with President Obama's approach.
But one of the things that's agreed upon here generally by the public and by politicians and perhaps it was the only thing agreed upon by everyone
here throughout some very divisive elections was the threat of a nuclear Iran.
And now we'll see especially over the next few hours and the next few days as people here really absorb what came out of this agreement, what came out
of the statements tonight. We'll see where they fall - whether they think these - the - elements from this deal are trustworthy, whether they can
trust what comes out of here or whether they can't.
NEWTON: Now we should say we may have to wait for some reaction. It is Passover and so things may be quiet for a while.
But, again, I'm sure we will hear more from Benjamin Netanyahu and his government about this deal. Oren, thanks so much for the update.
Now, pressure from the business community in the United States has forced policymakers to fix a state law seen as anti-gay. They are new
developments in the last few minutes. We'll have more right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:53:52] NEWTON: Minutes ago policymakers in Indiana overhauled the state's religious freedom law just a week after it
was first passed. Now it comes after the business community led a nationwide outcry saying the legislation amounted to anti-gay
discrimination. Also this hour, the legislature in the U.S. state of Arkansas approved its
version of a similar religious law and the governor has just put his signature on it. Now the bill there was revised to change sections that
critics said targeted gays. Miguel Marquez is standing by in the Indiana state capital, Indianapolis.
Miguel, I spoke to you hours ago when you had the new version of the law in your hands. This thing is going to go through. What will be the fallout
from this do you think both in Indiana and across the country?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well I can tell you that those who backed this bill are extraordinarily upset.
There were several religious conservative organizations that were involved in the writing and in the pushing of that bill through the legislature here
and for the governor's signature. And they didn't see it as discrimination, they saw it as choice, they saw
it as the rights of a photographer or a floral arranger or a baker or any of those that have services that one might hire for weddings especially
that they didn't want to be burdened, as it were, by those individuals - gay and Lesbian couples -- asking them to provide services.
Another concern that they had was with transgender. This is another issue that has come up here and it was a big sticking points for Republicans as
they were trying to come up with this revised language that is transgender rights and whether or not they should - what sort of rights should be
afforded to transgender individuals here. The concern was or a lot of the discussion here in the Senate before they
broke up today was whether or not someone who was born male who had - was - transitioning to female would use female toilets in public shower
facilities. Those are the sort of concerns that were raised here, and this language,
while not addressing any of those issues, essentially means that when it comes to religious freedom, a business and individual wouldn't be able to
assert their rights against providing services for individuals regardless of their sexual orientation. Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, certainly the issues could get very complicated. You know, Miguel, here at CNN Business we have been talking
to many business leaders who then asked everyone about it. The majority have been on the record saying this was a bad law - it need to be fixed.
It is extraordinary that the business community in the United States has got something done in basically a matter of days when we can have
legislatures and Congress, quite frankly, in Washington wrangle over something for years. Do you think - I mean - have you seen this as
unprecedented - the fact that the business community spoke up, money talks and the deal was done?
MARQUEZ: There was a similar situation in Arizona last year when the legislature of -- the Republication legislature there -
put through a bill that was very, very similar to this one, put it on the governor's desk and the Republican governor there vetoed it very, very
publically, saying that it had no place in Arizona or in society. The business community there rallied very hard, saying this is not something that was business-friendly, essentially bad for business. Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, I'm glad you've been covering that all day. You've certainly brought us every twist and turn. Appreciate
that. Now with a deal to lift sanctions against Tehran on the horizon, could Iran
be looking forward to a tourism boom? Cuba is already showing how fast things can change. In December President Obama lifted some restrictions on
trade and travel to Cuba. Well today a popular apartment-sharing website, Airbnb, announced that it will list about 1,000 homes for Cubans who want
to rent out space to American visitors. Now our business correspondent Samuel Burke asked the company's co-founder
why Airbnb decided to expand in Cuba.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
NATHAN BIECHARCZYK, AIRBNB CO-FOUNDER AND CTO: Yes, in December when President Obama announced that the restrictions were
going to be relaxed, we actually saw a 70 percent increase in the number of searches on Airbnb for Cuba. So there's definitely real demand there and
it makes sense [16:55:09] Cuba has been off limits for over 50 years to the majority of
Americans and yet it's a very close neighbor to the country.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: For all intents and purposes, these sanctions of the United States on Cuba are
still very much in place. So how are you going to pay the host? Collecting payment should be easy from Americans, but how are you actually
going to get the money into the hands of Cubans?
BIECHARCZYK: Well we've been working very closely with the U.S. Treasury Department to make sure that we're following all the
rules that are still in place because there are quite a few restrictions still in place. That being said, the remittance of the money - there are a
number of third parties that we're working through. In most cases, the Cubans will be paid via cash through a local intermediary.
BURKE: Obviously Airbnb thinks that there's growth potential here or your business would not bother trying this. But how much
growth do you really see in a place like Cuba where there has been some change now since December, but not major change really in terms of
sanctions being lifted. So do you see the growth as low, medium, large? Where do you see - how do
you quantify this growth potential?
BIECHARCZYK: I think there's a lot of potential. One, it's been off limits for the last 50 years so I think there's a lot of
pent up interest to experience Cuban culture. The second is if you look at the proximity of Cuba to the U.S. and if you look at where Americans travel
when they leave the country, they don't necessarily go very far. They go to Canada, they go to Mexico and the Caribbean. And so, you know, Cuba is
within that sweet spot where I think a lot of Americans would like to venture.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
NEWTON: And we'll be back with a check on the day's stock market action. That's just after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:00:01] NEWTON: As you are seeing some modest gains as you can see there on the market, I want to point out tomorrow's a holiday in the U.S.
and Europe but we have an important U.S. jobs report out on Friday. That is it for "Quest Means Business" from New York. CNN Today is up next.
END
