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Dr. Drew
New Photos of Bruce Jenner`s Transformation; A Journalism Review Criticizes "Rolling Stone" Article; The Reporter Behind the "Rolling Stone" Story; New Dangerous Drug. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired April 07, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:07] DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST OF "DR. DREW ON CALL" SHOW: Tonight, Flakk out. What is it? We will show you what it is and some bizarre
behavior it causes. And, Bruce Jenner, new photos of his transformation. I will talk to my guests who have been through this process to get their
reactions.
Let us get started with "WTF," the most shocking story of the night that is dominating Twitter and Facebook. A journalism review finds "Rolling Stone"
made mistakes at every turn in its reporting of a gang rape at the University of Virginia.
The reporter not only ignored the basic principles of journalism, but she failed to identify her subject, a young woman, who needed professional
help. She failed her completely as well as the story. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Seven men accused of attacking a young woman over several hours. An alleged gang rape during a fraternity party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX STOCK, JACKIE`S FRIEND WHO HAS ALLEGEDLY BEEN GANG RAPED AT A PHI KAPPA PSI PARTY: it was almost too perfect of a story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SABRINA RUBIN ERDELY, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE: Seemingly, fraternities are calling the shots, where sexual assault is
rampant, where rape victims are afraid and discouraged from coming forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Details began to emerge about the night the woman named Jackie says she was raped.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN DUFFIN, JACKIE`S FRIEND WHO HAS ALLEGEDLY BEEN GANG RAPED AT A PHI KAPPA PSI PARTY: I did not notice any sort of physical injuries. I did
not notice a lack of shoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: As the story began to fall apart, "Rolling Stone" admitted they never contacted the men Jackie had accused.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Protecting a survivor does not mean not verifying the story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: "Rolling Stone" said they had taken Jackie`s word.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining me Sam Schacher of "Pop Trigger" on Hulu!, Spirit Psychotherapist and Karamo Brown, social worker. The subject of the story,
Jackie -- The subject is Jackie woman disappeared since the publication of the article.
The question is why? Was she destroyed by what they did by shaming her in public? Was she further traumatized by what they exposed her to? Was she
ashamed of her lies? What do you think, Sam?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER" ON HULU.COM: Well, a couple weeks before the article too, Dr. Drew, the journalist and the editor had trouble
getting a hold of her as well, because they continued to leave her messages saying, "We need to know more about your assailants, your rapists. Please
tell us more. Please tell us the last names."
And, because she was not telling them their names, they believed, "OK. We do not want to re-traumatize her, so let us run the story." But, she did
not just peace out after the fact, Dr. Drew. She started to get cold feet it looks like, beforehand.
PINSKY: And, we have been absolutely inundated on our Facebok page with viewers, who think that Jackie should be held accountable for telling a
false story. Look at this.
Nova on Facebook says, "Are there any charges being filed against the woman who made these claims? It is horrifying that anyone could possibly destroy
innocent people in the court of public opinion and even worse, make it harder for real victims to come forward."
So, Karamo, this is what we are all worried about, is that this -- the journalist who is the responsible party here, who is the adult takes this
story -- not this woman is not an adult, but they are certainly the responsibility who take this story, shame this woman, mishandle this woman
and make it is more difficult for real victims to step forward.
KARAMO BROWN, SOCIAL WORKER: Yes. I was disgusted when I though -- I heard this story and this came to light. To know that this reporter has
not been fired and also that no charges are going to be filed against this woman who lied.
You know, I say on this show constantly that I support survivors, that I am here for them. And, to know that so many more that have been re-victimized
are going to be scared to come out and share their stories, that is sad and disgusting.
PINSKY: And, my problem is, Brian Williams stretches the truth a little bit about his experiences in war zones. These people do a terrible job
directly related to their mis -- complete mishandling of the subject, who is now in hiding and probably traumatized terribly, really need a
professional help.
If they consulted with somebody, they would have realized that. They hjave harmed all of the people they named, including the school in this article,
and they are not being held accountable. Brian Williams is essentially fired and these people just go, "Oh, I learned my lesson. Sorry about
that."
BROWN: Yes, it is disgusting. I mean this woman should have been fired immediately.
SCHACHER: Right.
BROWN: The damage that she has done is going to last for years and years. This young men, the people who are not going to believe them, that
reputation that is going to follow them. As you said, the other woman, this university, she should get fired ASAP.
PINSKY: Spirit, this makes me very upset. It really does, because I said this last time, I lived through the age when magazines -- I remember "Spin"
magazine put out a five-part series where they developed this elaborate and bogus theory about how HIV was just a construct of the Gallo Institute.
And, then actually the AIDS syndrome was being caused by anti-viral medication. And, I watched patient after patient die directly related to
that. I have newspapers here in Los Angeles that put on their front page that they are Super Bugs taking over hospitals.
So, patients who need care might think twice and be fearful to go to the hospital to get care and no one is held accountable for actually harming
people. It makes me crazy that they are not only not held accountable, their jobs -- they just go on about their business.
[21:05:03] SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. And, you know, Dr. Drew, this is really two distinct issues. You have the issue of integrity,
reporters, journalistic integrity and then you have what is going on with this girl.
We still do not have the answers. And, as I have said, so many times on this show, we will never have the answers. We will never know what
happened or did not happen with her.
So, I will not even pretend to support or negate what it is that she is saying. But, here with these journalist who say, "Hey, listen! We did not
even bother to do our homework and to research this story."
PINSKY: Right.
CLANTON: Surely, something has to be done here.
PINSKY: All right --
CLANTON: Surely.
PINSKY: And, now we got some Twitter reactions too. I really did not got into this yet. This Twitter says, quote, "If you are angrier with Jackie
then you are with "Rolling Stone." You got some issues. You should probably address with a professional."
Sam, help me understand why people -- this guy, obviously now, but many of our viewers are more angry with Jackie than with "Rolling Stone." I do not
understand that.
Jackie -- If anybody of any clinical skill would have noticed that she probably needed a little help, they do not get her the help, they do not
realize they have got somebody in trouble on their hands and they exploit her and she is harmed directly for it and yet now our viewers are angry
with Jackie.
SCHACHER: Well, I think they need to be angry with both of them, Dr. Drew. I know you do not want to hear me say that, but I am sorry. After all the
research that I have done with Jackie, she has a history according to her friends, according to those three friends that she went to right after the
alleged rape.
She lied and manipulated them a bunch of times, too. She had this fictional guy that was into her. She had a fake cell phone where she was
texting. The other guy that she was into, they later found out that the guy that she said she was dating was somebody that she went to grade school
with.
They found him on Facebook. They had not seen each other in decades, let alone were even friends in the first place. So, if you really dig deep in
this story, she has a history of lying and manipulating people.
PINSKY: Yes. Yes. And there are diagnoses attached to that kind of behavior.
SCHACHER: But you cannot just falsely accuse people. I understand why people are up in arms. That ruin someone`s reputation and that makes it
that much harder for the real victims to come forward.
PINSKY: But, the point is within the system, these accusations were being milled through even though the "Rolling Stone" -- and by the way, the same
paper who thought it was a good idea to put Tsarnaev on the cover. You know, the guy -- the Boston bomber --
SCHACHER: Right. Yes.
PINSKY: Hats off to you, guys. Well done. You know, I mean the hubris here is just really stunning. So, they were milling through her
accusations until the paper blew it up in the court of public opinion.
The reality is, she probably would not have hurt anybody. She probably woul have been taken to proper care. Spirit, I heard you nodding and
saying, "Uh-huh," when I said there are diagnoses associated with this sort of behavior.
CLANTON: Absolutely. All over axis 1 and axis 2, Dr. Drew. You know this better than I do. But, you know, at the end of the day, the issue here,
again, is just as you said, if they would have done their jobs, regardless of how much she blamed, regardless of who she pointed the finger at, had
they done their job, she would have never had the exposure.
PINSKY: But this are the same people who take aims at the likes of Brian Williams that are not happy until he loses his job and yet they directly --
not -- these are people that are not miscarrying their job. These are people whom they harm, physically and emotionally. Harm them directly,
these journalists.
And, yet they have no accountability. They walk away like there is no problem and they are causing other people to lose their jobs, who are not
harming people but maybe, maybe are not carrying out their jobs the way we think they should. This is preposterous.
Next up, you will hear from the reporter who wrote this highly questionable story.
And, later, there is a new drug out there that is very dangerous and I believe deadly. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: No one fired, no one suspended, no one disciplined at all after a scathing Columbia University review found
systemic failures in "Rolling Stone`s" reporting of an alleged gang rape at the University of Virginia fraternity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: As a result of her behavior, and the editor`s duplicitous behavior, has now created a situation where it is worse for victims, worse
and yet, no consequence. "Oh, just a scathing review. Ooh, wow! Watch out, man."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We are out to get the men, we are out to get the accused. The first time we hear rape, we are automatically
going to throw the man under the bus without investigating the facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISON KISS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CLERY CENTER FOR SECURITY ON CAMPUS: With this retraction coming out, it is going to highlight that perception
that some people do not tell the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Guess what, the people who put that stuff on the front page of the newspaper is going to have no accountability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit and Karamo. Now, the reporter, Sabrina Erdly, seems to blame her editors for not seeking out interviews with
Jackie`s friends. They are not requiring her to do so.
She told the Columbia Journalism School, quote, "In retrospect, I wish somebody have pushed me harder. I guess, maybe, I was surprised that
nobody said, `why have not you called them,` but nobody did and I was not going to press that issue." Sam, let us reset this whole story.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: This was an alleged gang rape at a fraternity house that did not even have a party the night in question.
SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly, Dr. Drew. And, I am just -- I cannot -- and, yes, in retrospect? Please, how about basic journalism 101? -- But, yes.
OK. So, this young woman claims Jackie, OK, that is what the "Rolling Stone" article named her,. She claimed that she attended this fraternity
party and that she was gang raped by several of these fraternity brothers.
She immediately told that story, visibly upset to a group of friends. Then, fast forward, she told the same story to the "Rolling Stone"
Magazine, to the journalists, to the editor. Now, they never cross-checked any or corroborated any of her story.
They never talked to her three friends, who they painted in a very poor picture. They never talked to the fraternity. They never talked to any of
these alleged rapists. They did not do any fact checking or anything whatsoever. They just literally took what she said verbatim and printed
it.
PINSKY: Yes, this is what drives me -- this is what makes me a little bit crazy, which is that people are allowed to print whatever they want.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: We have gotten so cavalier about printing in the day of social media and blogging, when you can just put anything down you want. It is
your opinion. Just because, I understand the intent is to protect people from rape. I understand it.
Absolutely, that is a noble cause. But you cannot harm people along the way. Listen, you better search your soul, journalist. Ultimately, it is
very difficult. I understand it to do print right now, but you are trying to sell magazines.
And, that is really what you are trying to do. And, you do not care on some level. You do not care about harming the people whom you are talking
about in that print. I understand it becomes you become very cavalier.
But, listen, we live in a time when people like in Twitter saying, they are going to do something about the people that say things that are harmful.
How about the journalists that actually have degrees and are professionals behave accordingly? I am just saying.
Karamo, I do not know how you feel about this, but this whole thing but is really -- it is indicative to me of the mob mentality we have generally
going on here and it is terribly, terribly troubling. It certainly does not serve the needs of the underlying problem that this story was trying to
address.
BROWN: You are right about that. All of these people that are wanting to jump on the case, it puts away from the fact that there are still women out
there, who are too afraid to come forward, who are victims and who are survivors and who want to say that they have been violated but are scared
because of situations like this, which is really hard.
And I want those women to know that, do not let this scare you into the closet per se more. Come forward. Let your truth be what sets you free.
Know that there are people out here like yourself, Dr. Drew, myself, Sam, all of us who support you.
PINSKY: Let us stop there for a second, Karamo. I will have Spirit do the same thing. We do not know this Jackie character. What kinds of things
could she likely be suffering from?
I will start with Karamo and then go to Spirit. So, Karamo, what do you think is a likely probable -- we are just purely speculating of a college-
aged student that confabulates like this and claims traumatization and then goes into hiding?
BROWN: Oh my gosh! She is delusional.
PINSKY: Maybe.
BROWN: I mean this list could go on and on for hours, because for anyone to concoct this type of story and to make this stuff, and even hearing the
things that Sam was sharing, it just let us you know where her state of mind, where was she?
PINSKY: Let me ask you this. People want her to be a bad person.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: They want to make her at fault. They get angry when you call her a victim of any sort. Do you think that is even a remote probability, that
this is a bad person just screwing with people?
BROWN: No. I do believe there is mental illness here with her.
PINSKY: Right. Right.
BROWN: For anyone to go this deep into the story, and you know that is harming people --
PINSKY: That is right. OK. Yes.
BROWN: Yes, definitely.
PINSKY: But not really -- probably not even understanding what was real and what was not.
BROWN: Exactly.
PINSKY: Right? Probably.
BROWN: Not at all.
PINSKY: OK. Spirit, what do you say? Do you think she knew that she was lying, that she was intending to create drama? It is possible. And,
people with certain personality disorders would do that.
CLANTON: Well, I mean it is possible. Yes.
BROWN: Yes.
PINSKY: Yes. That is another mental illness, by the way.
CLANTON: Yes. Well, we can have some of the malingering here, Dr. Drew. We could even have some of the histrionics stuff, maybe even some of the
borderline.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: I mean we could diagnose her forever. But, you know, the other part of this that I think is important to say is, because I do believe that
there needs to be some reprimanding of theses journalists. I do not necessarily think that they need to lose their jobs. I have never been one
to say you make errors in your profession, and you should be excluded, otherwise to participate --
PINSKY: Listen, they are the ones who get people fired all the time.
CLANTON: I get it. I get it.
PINSKY: And feel completely at their liberty to do so, all the time.
CLANTON: I get it. I do not agree.
PINSKY: And along the way, if they hurt somebody else, they are the good guy. Why should they be held accountable? Why should they? Why?
CLANTON: I hear you.
PINSKY: What is the problem?
CLANTON: Because I think that just firing people and just sweeping it under the rug is too easy. We need to hold people accountable and if we --
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: -- and if we suspend them, if we revoke rights, if we do extra training --
PINSKY: OK.
CLANTON: -- I think that, that makes them a better asset to the field to do better.
PINSKY: Fair enough.
CLANTON: Accountability.
PINSKY: I agree with you. Sam, so, they should have policies and procedures. They should have consequences. I agree. Make them better at
what they do but do not let them just walk away with, "Oh, my gosh. These people do not like what I did."
CLANTON: Absolutely.
SCHACHER: They are playing this blame game of, "Oh, it was the editor. I wish somebody, you know, had kept me in check."
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: Hot potato.
SCHACHER: You should know better.
CLANTON: Yes.
SCHACHER: But, Dr. Drew, I want to share my theory on this young girl. And, listen, I am not a doctor. Definitely, there is something
psychologically wrong with her to go to this extent, but she did have a history of really trying to gain.
I almost want to say to make this male friend of hers is jealous by pretending to be a guy that was interested in her and a fake phone that was
texting him. He was the first person that she ran and told the story to. I feel like she was trying to gain attention from him and it just spiraled
out of control.
PINSKY: Now, I have a Facebook quote from Bruce says, quote, "Print journalism is dying and editors are pressed to boost readership. They are
no longer the gate-keepers or the devil is advocates."
So, the question is, "Was their judgment clouded by their rush to print this?" The fraternity, Phi Kappa Psy is planning to sue "Rolling Stone."
The University of Virginia says, its involvement with Jackie, the University`s and the fraternities was misrepresented in the story. So,
maybe there will be some consequences from this. I do not know.
[21:20:00] What I think ultimately, though, is I am just begging people that print things about other people, that they really be very, very
careful about the facts. I cannot tell you how often I reads stuff in print that is so inaccurate and so overdramatized, and I always worry --
My first experience is with that "Spin" Magazine, years ago. This was 20 years ago and watched AIDS` patients die hand over fist because of a
publication who never apologized, who never acknowledged what they did.
In that article, they insisted, be afraid, everyone, because the medications you are taking are actually causing AIDS. And guess what,
people read that. They believed it and they died. They died directly related to what they published. It was a five-part series. I will never
forget it.
And, ever since then, I have seen repeated situations, where inaccuracies, innuendo circumstances like this rush to publication, harm other people
profoundly, the same time I watched these same journalists feel at their liberty to cost people their job routinely. And the day of social media is
upon us when everybody is participating in this mob and we all need to think about being more responsible.
Next up, there is a new drug out there that is called Flakka. It can make you well. It can make you high, then it makes you psychotic, then it makes
you manic and then it makes you agitated, then it makes you do crazy stuff. And, guess what, it is legal. It is over-the-counter.
And, later, Bruce Jenner`s daughters, we have some new video with them in it. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[21:25:26]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Flakka, gravel, $5 insanity. It is the newest street drug rocking the streets of south Florida. It is
extremely dangerous and worst of all, totally legal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): It can be injected. It can be snorted. It can be ingested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Two months ago, a Flakka user was caught on surveillance camera trying to breakdown a door at a police station.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): They are hallucinating. They are on a psychotic stage. They may have superhuman strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: In another incident, a man tried to jump a fence and was impaled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (3): One of these rods is exactly identical to this one, it went into his leg and exited in the rear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And over the weekend, a man was seen running down the street naked convinced that people were out to kill him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Time for "Seriously?" A story that might be hard to believe, unless it were in fact true. Back with Sam, Spirit and Karamo. We have
disturbing video showing what happens when people are exposed to the new street drug called Flakka. Sam, what do you know about this?
SCHACHER: OK. Well, first of all, this is legal and pot is not? I mean, OK. So, Flakka is --
PINSKY: And, Sam, let me interrupt. I may have misspoke before the break. I said it was available over-the-counter. I had thought it was available
like bath salts. You can go to head shop and purchase it. I am hearing maybe not. It got more of an illicit, but it is cheap. It is like $5 a
hit or something.
SCHACHER: It is. It is $5 a pop. It is similar to bath salts. But bath salts their main ingredient was made illegal in 2011, I believe.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: This, not so much. So, this ingredient contains Alpha PBP, which is a type of stimulant or upper. Also, it affects are similar to
that of meth and cocaine. It lasts three to four hours. Most of the cases have occurred in Florida while some have popped up in Ohio and Texas.
PINSKY: Hold on a second, Sam. Slow down, Florida?
SCHACHER: Yes. I know. Big surprise, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Where is Mark to defend the state?
SCHACHER: I know, right?
PINSKY: Take a look at this video. This happened over the weekend. It is cell phone video shot by Jesse Grace. It shows a man high on Flakka
running around the street naked. He believed people were chasing him and trying to kill him. That is called a delusional paranoid psychosis he is
in.
That agitated state you see him in, appears to be a manic-type state. This is sort of acute manic psychosis. Look at him, running away from the cops
there. Spirit, my question is, given that there seems to be pretty good knowledge in the using community that Flakka is likely to cause some very
untoward effects, why are people still using it? It is such a dangerous thing?
CLANTON: Because they want the high, Dr. Drew, and they always think that will never be me.
PINSKY: Yes, I guess that is right.
CLANTON: That is plain and simple.
PINSKY: Yes. And, it is cheap. They do get high. They do manage to get around the urine tox screens, which is usually the motivation for why
people use these alternative compounds like K-2 --
CLANTON: Right.
PINSKY: -- and spice and bath salts and now Flakka. If somebody is going to be checking your pee for amphetamines, and you dig amphetamines, you
might be tempted to get this some of this.
CLANTON: There it is.
PINSKY: But here are some of things you can experience, paranoia, delusions, and addition to your euphoria, a superhuman strength. They are
calling it adrenaline-like strength, meaning you are so jacked up you can really lift cars and things when you may not be able to do.
Hallucinations, sweaty --
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: You know, you get sort of like PCP. People get very intense strength.
SCHACHER: It is scary.
PINSKY: You saw that guy was running around. You saw the guy get impaled. There is also is thought to be malignant hypothermia, which we used to see.
We seen both from ecstasy and we were seeing from the bath salt, which is a potentially fatal process where your body, your brain swells, your body
overheats, you get electro light disturbances.
I want to show you -- this is the guy running down the streets. Again, slow down, everybody. Florida, shocking. There he is. Yes. I mean, you
could just look at this. It is so crazy. Now, by the way, just an acute manic psychosis could look like this, too. But it was documented that this
particular guy took the Flakka or gravel, whatever you call it.
I want to show you some surveillance video, a man trying to kick down a door at a police station. He even takes a rock and throws it through the
door. He was so desperate to get in because he had the delusional psychotic belief that several cars were chasing him. Karamo, any theory
about -- beyond what Spirit said, they just think, I got to get high and this is not going to happen to me?
BROWN: Yes, I do not think it is just that. I mean I worked with addicts and I worked with people who -- there is something wrong why these people
feel like they need to escape, because I have seen people who have taken drugs.
And for them to know these symptoms and know that these is going to happen but they still feel like they want to escape and that they want to get that
far away from their natural mind that they still want to do this. There is something really wrong here and that is what we should really be
addressing.
[21:30:02] PINSKY: Yes. Well, of course. I mean that is the big story is why people do drugs? And, it is the emotional disregulation. But, I
think there is more here.
It is hard to imagine -- I think there is got to be at least a component of what Spirit is talking about, where you think to yourself, "Well, this is 5
bucks. It is good. I just want to get high," which is sort of the primary motivation if you are an addict. If it is somebody that is just an abuser
of drugs, though, it is hard to imagine that they would choose this drug.
CLANTON: Exactly.
PINSKY: No matter how easy this get around your toxicology, how cheap it is, it is hard to believe somebody who is not completely impaired already
would ever want to expose themselves to the potential of this sort of thing.
Next up, more about Flakka and a video of a man who impaled himself while completely high on this stuff. There he is being -- Oh, my gosh. They had
to get a blow torch out to get him from the impaled spike that was through his leg.
And later, what may be the television interview of the year, Bruce Jenner talks publicly about his very private transformation. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDETAPE)
[21:35: 19] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Shanard Neely at the PD, Sunday night around 8:00 P.M. Police believe he may have been under the influence
of the street drug, Flakka. All of a sudden he runs away attempting to climb an eight to nine-foot fence. Well, he did not make it to the other
side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK PARDO, FORT LAUDERDALE FIRE RESCUE: One of these rods is exactly identical to this one. It went through his leg and exited in the rear.
So, basically, if the rod was there, it went in just like this and came out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: His leg, a kabob, stuck on a metal skewer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit and Karamo. We are discussing the new street drug known as Flakka. It has dangerous side effects and we have
some video to show just how dangerous. Sam, I do not know that any of these videos, though, will really discourage the people we could like to
discourage from taking it.
SCHACHER: I would hope so. She just described his leg as a kabob. She said his leg was a kabob. That is insane.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I know.
SCHACHER: I have never seen anybody high on pot getting impaled, running around like a maniac. How is this legal? Why are not parents up in arms?
I would be horrified to know that this is on the streets for $5 a pop.
PINSKY: Sam, A. It will not be legal for long, number 1. But, B. It goes right at that issue, you are pointing at, which is the people, label some
good drugs good, and some drugs bad and how insane that is.
This is a drug that is very dangerous and should be off the streets. There are other drugs that are good in certain circumstances, not so good in
other circumstances. And, we cannot even differentiate amongst these. There has been a huge spike in Flakka cases in the last couple of years.
2010, zero. No one ever heard of it. 2012, 85 cases and 2014, 670 cases. It still has not been banned and people cannot detect it to my knowledge in
the urine toxicology screen. Spirit, what do you think the next movement? They just mill it through the legislative system and just make it illegal
and now starts to put it on the toxicology screens?
CLANTON: That is exactly what is going to happen. And, even though, that happens, Dr. Drew, we are still going to see the numbers in the cases
continue to grow, because at the end of the day, this is a cheap high.
This is cheaper than some of the other amphetamines and some of the other things that are out there. So, people are going to make this choice and
unfortunately we are going to hear more cases about these kind of situations and more kabobs all over again.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: And, it goes the diabolical nature of the marketing of drugs. And, if they can find a niche and they can find a price, they will find a
way to distribute it. And, by the way, the kabob thing, you got a spike through your leg, you could die in a short period of time.
SCHACHER: Oh my gosh.
PINSKY: Because you clip an artery. You can get a compartment syndrome. You get massive bleeding into the muscle. I mean you can lose the whole
leg pretty easily. A few years ago, I actually was able to walk into a head shop and buy bath salts. We had it up in streets here. It was legal.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: You walked into a head shop --
PINSKY: We have video.
SCHACHER: -- and tried to buy bath salts?
PINSKY: We have video of it. Sam, I was not going steady with you back then. Here it is, a video of it. Look at this. I walk in. I buy the
bath salts. They tried to sell me -- you guys remember, what is the opiate one that they have now? It starts with the K. Katone? I have never
really -- I have bought bath salts.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh.
PINSKY: I have bought K-2. Because you can buy spice and K-2 at the same headshop and, of course, they are used for -- they claim they are used for
potpourri. And, of course, I did not consume any of this stuff, as you know.
CLANTON: Right, potpourri.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Potpourri?
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: Wait a second. How dumb do they think people are? Yes, we are selling this for potpourri.
PINSKY: And the headshop with the bongs all over the place, all over the back there.
CLANTON: Whatever they have to say to make it legal. That is all it is.
PINSKY: That is right. It is a technicality. And, they were within their rights to do it because of the wrinkle in the law. I was within my rights
to go buy it. Do we have Bob on the phone, anybody? Have we lost him?
I had Bob for us a second. I wanted to talk to him about this to see if he has a sense of who was using it, what is motivating it and why it is
becoming a thing again and what is next. I mean there is always going to be some little -- I mean this is the miracle of molecules, right?
CLANTON: Exactly.
PINSKY: This is -- you put a little a methyl group a methylene group on something that we know works as an amphetamine and it becomes a more
poweful binding chemical at the receptor site where these molecules work, the dopamine system, the serotonergic system , but you can no longer detect
it in the urine toxicology screen.
It is cheap. It gets distributed. It is technically legal. Cannot we come up with some sort of an umbrella law? I do not know. Do we have to
have every single molecule individually -- cannot we come up with, consult with some chemists and talk generally about the class of drugs that do this
and say they are all illegal?
How about that? It makes sense. We cannot do anything sensible, though, I guess, because guys that would be a slippery slope. We cannot go down on
slippery slopes. Where is Anahita when I need her?
[21:40:02] Next up, Bruce Jenner recently seen bundled up in 80-degree weather. Is he hiding something under all these clothing? Reminder, we
are on Instagram. You can check out our behind the scenes photo. We post new ones every day and we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): There has been so much buzz about Bruce Jenner`s changing appearance and now "People" magazine quotes an unnamed
source who says that Jenner is transitioning to a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): This was something very big to find out about their father. But, they are incredibly supportive and their
number one priority is that he is happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Several sources are reporting that Olympic gold medalist turned Kim Kardashian`s stepfather will star in an upcoming
documentary style series for E! And that he will sit down for an interview with Diane Sawyer.
(END VIDEP CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): It is a two-hour primetime special. Speculation is that the interview will be about his extreme transformation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:45:07] PINSKY: Time for our most tweeted story of the night. I am back with Sam, Jade, I have also -- Sam and Spirit, I beg your pardon. I
also have Jade Ponce, transgender YouTuber. I also have Sharon Brown, a transgender woman, who works at L.A.`s LGBT Center.
Bruce Jenner`s interview with Diane Sawyer will air April 24th. ABC calls it, quote, "sFar ranging." Sharon, is this an interview that you think is
going to have a positive impact, that you are anxious to see?
SHARON BROWN, TRANSGENDER WHO WORKS AT LOS ANGELES` LGBT CENTER: Well, I think this interview is definitely something that I will be watching. But
more on the point to see how others react to it. Because this is something that we see every day where I work at the Los Angeles` LGBT Center, where
we have a number of transgender individuals who are being kicked out of their homes because of the lack of support.
And, looking forward to see this interview is actually to see how others respond. Because it is my understanding that Bruce has not yet officially
self-identified as transitioning.
PINSKY: Right. And the theory is that he is going to do so on this upcoming interview. Sam, you are nodding. That is what we are hearing.
No?
SCHACHER: Yes, that is what we are hearing. In fact, we even were able to read a really en-depth interview that his mother, you know, spoke to a
journalist about, where she said that he is in the process of transitioning. And, she is proud of him as she should be. And, that soon,
we will hear all of the details in this Diane Sawyer interview.
PINSKY: I hope, Spirit, that this is something that he feels good about. This is a man that is not only just had a divorce, involved in a fatal car
accident, massive transition in his life. And, again, my guests can speak to how difficult and challenging that can be.
I mean we can just start listing all of the different phenomenal stressors. Did I mention the divorce? Did I mention his daughters are coming of a
certain age? It is kind of a stressful parenting. I mean this man is going through so much and all of it is public. It is just got to be
overwhelming. It is amazing, frankly, that he moves through life with grace under these circumstances?
CLANTON: Well, you know, and it is also very interesting to me, Dr. Drew,. Would have thought, you know, because clearly if he is truly transitioning,
then he has a therapist that he is working with as he goes through the transition.
I would have thought as a therapist that I would have taken into account. Listen, you are a very public figure. So, let us talk about how to make
this as supportive of a transition as possible and utilize this. Perhaps they did. And, this is the choice that he arrived at. But, the way that
this is happening, just seems so much more stressful. And, I really hope that --
PINSKY: Go ahead. Finish it. I am just --
CLANTON: You know, you talk about the whole thing with Diane Sawyer and journalistic integrity. I really hope that they do not wait until the last
15 minutes of this two-hour interview to dive into this story because this is what everyone is waiting to hear about.
PINSKY: Yes. I do not think -- I mean I have worked with Diane over the years. She is a real serious woman, a serious professional. I am certain
-- I feel confident she will get right to it and handle it in a very supportive way.
But boy, you know, you are right. How you do this and doing this in front of everyone. It just got to be overwhelming. And, Jade, it is one thing
to come out to loved ones but, as I am saying, it is coming out to the world. What was your experience like?
JADE PONCE, TRANSGENDER YOUTUBER: My experience was, OK. I talked to my family first and then six months after that I decided to post my story on
Facebook. I told everything. Let everybody know that this is what is happening. And, it is just my Facebook friends, so I cannot imagine having
to do that to the world.
PINSKY: And, Sharon, again, the same question -- And, I wonder if the fact that he is so attached to the Kardashian infrastructure, let us say, the
Kardashian brand.
CLANTON: Machine.
PINSKY: Machine, brand, whatever you want to call it. I mean it makes people immediately question even waiting to do the Diane Sawyer interview,
as though it is some sort of premeditated. You know, a sort of way to get maximum exposure. Is the fact that he is doing this and attach the
Kardashians somehow diminish what his impact could potentially have been?
BROWN: No, I do not think so. I think what it has done and will most likely continue to do so is force this issue on the table at 6:00 dinner,
so when people are sitting around and not expecting to talk about gender identity, now they have to whether they choose to at some point.
But I think this is just thrusted more into the spotlight. And, as far as support, you know, it is a difficult journey for anyone and being that he
is in the spotlight, it does add a tremendous amount of more pressure on it.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: And, everyone is watching. And, I think --
PINSKY: And, there is another terms of the dinner table conversation, I do not know if it is appropriate for a discussion around the table for every
family, but there is another issue that has not been exposed, to my knowledge, which is what his sexual orientation is likely to be. We heard
rumors saying that he was going to remain female focused.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: I guess he would be then a transgender lesbian female. We do not know that, though. That was really at the level of rumor.
SCHACHER: Right. That was speculation but also a number of people -- I read that same article. I am forgetting how to cite it. But underneath
the article there is a number of doctors, Dr. Drew, that commented, saying that, "That could even change." And, please correct me if I am wrong
because of the hormone therapy, right?
PINSKY: Well, Sharon, let us address this. Do people frequently as they are making the transition also shift their sexual orientation?
BROWN: Well, let us just make it clear. A sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.
PINSKY: Right.
BROWN: And sexual orientation is sometimes fluid. So, there are many individuals who transition opposite of the birth sex who remain
heterosexual or --
PINSKY: Right.
BROWN: So --
PINSKY: So it is sometimes?
BROWN: It is sometimes. It is fluid. But it is just that there are two different distinct issues.
PINSKY: Well, that is what I was saying, and hopefully when we start to discuss these things, that one thing that is pushing into the public
consciousness is the transgender phenomenon.
BROWN: Right.
PINSKY: But the other is, what is the sexual orientation, which is a holy separate phenomenon from what he is doing with his gender. Now, the famous
daughters of Bruce Jenner had been caught on tape. It is looking like he is managing things. He is very grounded, and perhaps those around him are
not. We will look at that video after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE JENNER: I know a lot of things are happening but I do my best to try to keep everything calm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: There has been so much buzz about Bruce Jenner`s changing appearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Adam`s apple changed. He has grown his hair out very long. On his birthday, he showed up with a bright manicure on his
fingers. So, little bits here and there.
PINSKY: Radar Online reports that Bruce Jenner`s mother confirms her son is transitioning to becoming a woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Bruce Jenner, now there is a lot of buzz about what he will talk about during his interview with Diane Sawyer on
April 24th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Jade and Sharon. Speculation, about genders. Reported transition from male to female, hopefully will be put to
rest witjh the interview with Diane Sawyers when it airs. Sharon, my question to you is when you decided to make this transition, when you
became aware that you needed to do so, was your family supported?
BROWN: Unfortunately, my family was not supportive, which is not uncommon to many youth today. My family just more recently, in the last six to
eight years, are beginning to reconcile. So, for 15 years, there was very little communication.
PINSKY: Now, you are working day in and day out of this field. Are you seeing better acceptance by families and by the community at large and
people with this condition who choose to make the transition?
BROWN: I think you have to look at it based on what is happened through the years. I think the tolerance level has improved. However, there is
still a lot of work to do because we still see a lot of youth being kicked out of their homes and -- which we see every day at the Los Angeles LGBT
Center, where we are actually offering health care to them.
And, you also notice, too, that for a transgender individual, the unemployment rate is twice as high as anyone else. So, it is really an
issue that still demands as much attention as it did 20 years ago.
PINSKY: Let me ask this, how old were you when you made the transition? Because I am hearing that male to female often is people in their third to
fourth decades of life, who have been thinking about it long time ago. They really do not come to terms with it, until quite a bit later.
BROWN: OK. I think I was around 24, 25.
PINSKY: And Jade is smiling at that, too. You were a younger person to do this. Yes?
PONCE: Yes. I started transitioning when I was 19, 20.
PINSKY: And, I am looking at a tweet from a Steve Owens. He says, "did you just say transgender lesbian female?" So, people are having a hard
time understanding, did I say that correctly? That is what often happens with people that transgender, their sexual orientation, if they are a male,
is still toward a female, so they are technically a transgender lesbian female. Correct? Did I misspeak? Sharon, help me.
BROWN: Yes. Yes. They are a female but they are a lesbian.
PINSKY: OK. Now, I promised that I would show a post from 17-year-old Kylie Jenner, who is recently on Snapchat. She is standing by her older
sister Kendall. And, this thing raised a lot of eyebrows. This made a rounds on TMZ and other sites. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYLIE JENNER: Kylie, oh --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, goofing or Is that something to be concerned about?
SCHACHER: No. I am sure they are probably thinking that they are being funny and sexual, but it is really inappropriate and it just makes them
look immature.
PINSKY: Spirit?
CLANTON: Listen, their family is in turmoil all the way around and these two young girls are suffering in a lot of ways.
PINSKY: Yes. Jade, you look a little taken by that. Any response to that?
PONCE: I just think it is immature for attention. You see it all the time, girls make out. They do not actually feel those feelings but they
think guys think it is attractive.
PINSKY: There you go. All right, guys, thank you very much. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you Jade. Of course, thank you Sam and Spirit. You can DVR
us and watch us any time. Next, test your internet knowledge with "Keywords." It starts now.
END
