Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
S.C. Cop Charged With Murder; Road Rage: Man Threatens Family with Chain Saw; Two Amish Girls Abducted, Sexually Abused. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 08, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Charleston, where graphic video surfaces after a 34-year-old white police officer, Michael
Slager, pulls over a 50-year-old black man over a busted tail light.
Bombshell tonight. By the time it`s all said and done, the driver, 50- year-old Walter Scott, is face down dead in the dirt from five gunshot wounds to the back, the back of the ear and the buttocks, all gunshots from
behind, the police officer insisting Scott was fighting him for his police taser.
But it`s all caught on video. There is no taser struggle. We have the video. Did 33-year-old police officer Michael Slager gun down a 50-year-
old black man in cold blood?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walter Scott is turning and running away from the officer. Eight shots and four seconds later, the 50-year-old falls to the
ground, pronounced dead at the scene a little later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you`re wrong, you`re wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice has been served.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And live, a family, Mom, Dad two, children in the back seat, cut off in traffic. When they follow the guy to get his tag number, the nutjob
leaps out of his car with a chainsaw and comes after the family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents say a driver cut them off. The couple calls police and starts recording. What happens next? Caught on tape! The
alleged driver brandishes a chainsaw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Amish country, a quiet, a peace-loving community torn asunder after two little Amish girls kidnapped, snatched from their
parents` roadside fruit stand. Perpetrators, a 39-year-old man and his 25- year-old lover, in court for the kidnap and sex attack on the two little Amish girls.
Inside the investigation, we learn the two girls neither the first nor the last these two intend to molest. The lawyer for the female claims a "50
Shades of Grey" defense. Tonight, is a secret plea deal in the works?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a sweetheart plea deal in the works for a couple accused of kidnapping two Amish sisters and sexually abusing them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Motive was to victimize these girls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight, live to North Charleston. Graphic video surfacing after a 33-year-old white police officer, Michael Slager, pulls over a 50-year-
old black man over a busted tail light. By the time it`s all said and done, the driver, 50-year-old Walter Scott, is face down dead in the dirt
from five gunshots wounds to his back, the back of his ear and his buttocks, all gunshots from behind. He is unarmed, the police officer
insisting Mr. Scott fighting him for his taser.
But it`s all caught on video. We don`t see any taser struggle. We have the video. Did 33-year-old white police officer Michael Slager gun down a
50-year-old black man in cold blood?
Straight out to Andrew Kiel, news anchor, WRHL -- WRHI. Andrew, thank you for being with us. First, tell me your understanding of this scenario.
Hold on. Andrew, I`m going to play it in its entirety for the viewers. Hold on. Let`s hear it with audio, please, Justin, quickly.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What would the story be without this video? Now, watch carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He is handcuffing the dead man`s hands behind his back. The video you are seeing is graphic and disturbing. Warning.
[20:05:02]Now, what`s he reaching down and getting? What does Slager go get off the ground? What does Slager have in his right hand right now?
If you will notice, there is absolutely no CPR going on in this scenario. Take a look. Neither police officer is doing anything. Slager is looking
away from the body. Now he`s looking back.
Well, what are they doing? What are they doing right now? What are they looking for?
To Andrew Kiel, WRHI. There`s been a lot of suggestion after analyzing this video that Officer Slager actually went back and got his taser and put
it beside Mr. Scott`s body. Have you heard that suggestion?
ANDREW KIEL, WRHI (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, I`ve heard that suggestion, as well as several others this afternoon that really don`t really give a
clear picture of what exactly happened. I wish the video here were a little less shaky, then we could see what exactly the officer picked up.
But either case, the state law enforcement division here in South Carolina -- that is the chief investigative authority for crimes in this state --
that is one thing they will likely look at to find out what exactly happened. And even if it was a taser per se that he took and moved, to be
honest, Nancy, I think the charges of -- the charge that is of murder certainly tops any charge that may come out...
GRACE: Well, hold on, Andrew. We`re showing a shot right now of the taser, what appears to be the taser on the ground. Slager picks it up and
walks toward the body.
With me also, in addition to Andrew Kiel, is Andrew Knapp, public safety reporter with "The Post and Courier." Andrew Knapp, let`s take it from the
beginning. What does Slager say happened, Officer Slager?
ANDREW KNAPP, "POST AND COURIER" (via telephone): Slager says he was looking -- he was pulling over a vehicle that had broken brake lights at
the time. The vehicle pulled over into the parking lot of an auto parts store, and Mr. Scott apparently fled from that vehicle on foot, and Slager
gave chase.
But at some point, there was a confrontation. We don`t know how that confrontation started. But there was some sort of struggle over the taser.
I think you can see in that video Mr. Scott slapping at the hands of the officer. And the officer is struggling with Mr. Scott at the same time,
and...
GRACE: Now, hold on though. Andrew Knapp, if Scott is being tasered, slapping at the taser in the middle of being tasered does not mean you`re
trying to grab the taser.
KNAPP: Right. And there is no indication that Mr. Scott ever had the taser in his hand and never had the opportunity to actually use it against
the officer, which is what the officer said. The officer said that he feared that the -- that Mr. Scott was going to use it against him, and
that`s why he fired upon Mr. Scott.
GRACE: OK, let`s take it from that point right there. With me Andrew Knapp, public safety reporter, "Post and Courier," Andrew Kiel, anchor,
WRHI.
OK, Andrew, so all this is over a busted tail light? Is that how the whole thing starts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s how the whole thing started, according to the officer`s account. And we haven`t gotten the dashcam video from his car
yet that would actually prove that or disprove it. So we are waiting for that footage. We expect it to be released under...
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the state`s freedom of information law. Once we get it, we should know what happened there.
GRACE: OK, I want to analyze it more closely. Justin, if you could re-cue it from the very beginning. Let me know when you`ve it ready.
Andrew Knapp, we`re going to take it moment by moment so we can determine what really happened. Let`s roll it again, please.
For those of you just joining us, another black man has been gunned down by a white -- oh! Oh! Warning, graphic video.
OK, there you see the officer walking toward it. He is radioing from his shoulder radio. You see no CPR going on. Now, we know Mr. Scott`s already
dead, but no suggestion that he`s even going to try CPR.
[20:10:03]Let`s keep that going, please. Keep it going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. What I`m interested in is does Slager, Officer Slager -- he`s handcuffing Mr. Scott, who is dead, I`m sure. One of the bullets pierced
his heart. He`s walking back toward -- let`s see what he`s doing. He`s running. He`s jogging. He broke into a run. He picks something up off
the ground. He comes back toward the now dead body. Backup has arrived.
What`s he going to do? What`s Slager doing now? They don`t know they`re being videoed. He`s got the taser in his hand, it looks like. I`m going
to try to get you a close-up of that in a moment.
And the taser ends up beside Mr. Scott`s body, does it not, Andrew Knapp?
KNAPP: I mean, there looks like there`s some object dropped from his hands, but we don`t know for sure what that is yet. There`s been a lot of
suggestion that it is a taser. The authorities that are actually investigating that will not say at this point.
GRACE: OK, look. That is what Knapp and Kiel are talking about. Look. That`s not a gun in his hand right there, OK? That`s not how you would be
holding a gun.
Now, Justin, let`s go back to what we see on the ground. Did the police officer plant a taser beside Mr. Scott`s body? We`ve got a steel -- there
you have it, right there. I wonder if we can zoom in on that. See, the taser is behind them. If that`s the taser on the ground, they`re no longer
fighting over a taser.
Let`s see if we can get a closeup of what that is on the ground. Keep going, Justin. We`ve got another one that really shows it very well.
You`re seeing Slager there. He`s not touching the body -- there you go. We`ve got a closer visual of that. There you go. All right, there`s the
taser on the ground. It`s not by his body.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me, Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom, Alex out of New York, Peter, defense attorney out of Washington. And also with us,
special guest Daryl Parks, attorney for Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown families. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
First of all, let`s go out to you, Sanchez. Let`s hear your defense of Officer Slager, if you`ve got one.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, videotapes are important. They provide a lot of information. But they don`t provide all the information.
And what concerns me is I`m not clear what events transpired leading up to this particular event.
GRACE: I agree with you.
SANCHEZ: And it does seem to me -- and isn`t that important?
GRACE: Well, wait a minute!
SANCHEZ: But it does seem to me that there was some type of confrontation that occurred...
GRACE: There may have been.
SANCHEZ: ... before the gentleman ran away from the police officer. And you know what? That video...
GRACE: OK, Sanchez, please make your point. Make your point, please.
SANCHEZ: The videotape on a certain level supports the officer because he felt that the gentleman had the -- went to take his taser.
GRACE: OK, hold on...
SANCHEZ: And he eventually realized the taser was on the floor, right, when he went to pick it up.
GRACE: Alex...
SANCHEZ: So he may have thought the fellow had the taser on him.
GRACE: ... even if there had been -- even if there had been a struggle -- if there had been a struggle -- which may not have been on that video, I
agree with you. Maybe there had been a struggle. But at the time the officer starts shooting, there`s not even a suggestion that this is self-
defense. The guy is running away.
SANCHEZ: Well, how -- wait a minute. Wait a minute.
GRACE: He is unarmed...
SANCHEZ: How do you know what that fellow said? Wait a minute. What if he said, Listen...
GRACE: Doesn`t matter what he said.
SANCHEZ: ... you know what? I`m going to turn around. I`m going to get a gun...
GRACE: Doesn`t matter what he said.
SANCHEZ: You know, he may -- he may indicate that he`s going to go and commit some type of violence. Listen, you know something? I don`t think
this case has been adequately investigated yet. I think it`s -- I think it`s...
GRACE: OK, let me go to you...
SANCHEZ: ... premature to arrest this fellow.
GRACE: ... Daryl Parks. There is no suggestion here of self-defense. Not any. Now, just like in Ferguson, where the victim reached in and started
fighting over the gun, if there had been a shooting right then, there would have at least been an argument of self-defense.
But when you`ve got the guy running away, his back to you, all right, that`s not self-defense. And this does not qualify as fleeing felon!
DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR BROWN AND MARTIN FAMILIES: Without question, Nancy. And I think we see the officer, as Mr. White (ph) is running away
from him...
GRACE: Roll it, please.
PARKS: ... he clearly stands there, takes aim and kills the gentleman in cold blood. I mean, without question, this is an atrocity. And we all see
it now.
But it really brings a greater light on when these officers claim that they are being threatened, and we see how he fabricates a story that he was
grabbing the taser.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:18:55]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This disturbing video has South Carolina officer Michael Slager behind bars, charged with murder, the 33-year-old
officer shooting Scott in the back while he ran away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) He grabbed my taser!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scott takes off, running away as Slager fires eight times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: But now speculation is swirling that the police officer actually planted the taser. We are taking your calls. I want you to hear what Mr.
Scott`s mother had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDY SCOTT, MOTHER: When I looked at that tape, that was the most horrible thing I`ve ever seen! I am very, very upset concerning it! I almost
couldn`t look at it. To see my son running defenselessly, being shot, it just tore my heart to pieces! And I pray that this never happens to
another person. This has got to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:20:05] GRACE: That is Walter Scott`s mother a couple of hours ago on ABC`s "GMA," just crying after she saw this video. I wish she had never
seen it.
You know, to all of you crime victims out there, you know, I thought I knew it all. My fiance was murdered, I thought I knew all about pain and
suffering. She sees her son, her grown son, a 50-year-old man, running away from this 33-year-old police officer. There is Scott on the left in
his Coast Guard uniform, and now he`s dead, leaving behind four children. Two of those children, their mother`s dead, and they don`t have anybody
now. There`s Mr. Scott right there. All of this over a broken tail light?
Two Dennis Root, police practices use of force expert. I`d like to hear your thoughts on this, Mr. Root, even -- let`s -- let`s just go with the
scenario that there was a struggle over the taser.
And I don`t know if I believe that. I don`t know if I believe that because if you look very carefully when Mr. Scott is running away, you see the
strings of the taser going after him, all right? So in my mind, that means the police officer had the taser in his hand.
DENNIS ROOT, POLICE PRACTICES EXPERT (via telephone): Yes, I would agree. And you know, when we looked at this video in its entirety, the first thing
I would say is the actions of this officer are most assuredly not representative of all of the fine professionals within law enforcement.
And every fine professional finds it disturbing, the damage that he`s done to tarnish the badge of those people that protect our communities because
he made a bad decision. He does not represent law enforcement as a whole.
And your point about the taser weapon already being discharged -- clearly, the video that I`ve seen on several different occasions now shows that it
had already been discharged prior to Mr. Scott running from the officer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:26:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer Michael Slager said there was a scuffle over his taser and that he felt threatened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve all seen the video. We do know the truth now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walter Scott is turning and running away from the officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have watched the video, and I was sickened by what I saw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, a 33-year-old white police officer, Slager, shoots a 50-year-old man in the back. He`s shot five
times in the back, the buttocks, the back of the ear. He is face down in the dirt. He is unarmed.
Tonight, the officer, Slager, arguing that Mr. Scott fought him over his taser. But if you take a careful look at the video and you analyze it bit
by bit, frame by frame, you will see the taser is in the officer`s hand. There`s no struggle.
Graphic video. Look right there. Let`s back it up again to see the strings from the taser. Here it is. There`s the strings. If you look
carefully, you see the strings from the taser. The taser is still in his hand. There`s no struggle.
Out to Matthew W. Horace, law enforcement, security expert, senior VP FJC (ph) Security. Mr. Horace, explain to me what those strings going out from
the taser mean.
MATTHEW W. HORACE, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SECURITY EXPERT: Well, I think that the video clearly shows that the officer discharged the taser and that the
strings represent the fact that they probably lodged into the suspect or missed, and the suspect ran away. You saw this is a irrehenceable (sic)
example of poor policing, unbelievable tactics and unauthorized and unjustified use of force in this case.
GRACE: To the lawyers, Daryl Parks, Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom. All right, Peter, give me your best defense for this Officer Slager because him
arguing they had a struggling over the taser -- well, the officer still has the taser.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, look, Nancy...
GRACE: In fact, we see him apparently picking it up and putting it by the dead body.
ODOM: Self-defense is not going to work here.
GRACE: No.
ODOM: We know what happened. So the defense -- and there will be a defense, Nancy, very likely -- is going to focus on why it happened. So
the officer`s defense, when he raises one, is going to focus on all the events that the -- that the phone did not capture. The things that led up
to -- and we know there was some kind of a confrontation that involved the taser. It`s early to say exactly what his defense will be. And he might
never -- he might never raise a defense.
GRACE: Why do we know that? Why are we so sure there was a confrontation over the taser?
ODOM: That is what the officer is saying.
GRACE: Well, I know that. So?
ODOM: So that`s -- that`s how we...
GRACE: That doesn`t mean that that`s true.
ODOM: Of course it doesn`t mean it`s true. You asked me what the defense is going to be. I`m giving you my best shot at what his defense is going
to be.
GRACE: Oh, OK. I see.
ODOM: It`s going to focus on -- it`s going to focus on what happened before that phone video started taping and what put the officer in the
state of mind to do what we now know he did, which was pull out his gun and shoot him in the back.
GRACE: OK. We all know fleeing felon law. In this country, the U.S. Supreme Court says a police officer can shoot dead...
ODOM: As far as I know, Nancy, tail light is not a felony.
GRACE: ... fleeing felon -- as I was trying to say. However, in this case, Mr. Scott was not in the middle of a felony that we know of, nor does
he have a felony record.
So even if -- let me go to you, Stacey Newman. Even if the cop pulled up the tag and he sees misdemeanors, if he sees any type of criminal history
at all, still, the person has to be in the midst of a felony and presenting a threat to the community before a cop can shoot them dead, shoot them at
all!
So Stacey, what do we know about Mr. Scott?
[20:30:02] STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, we know Mr. Scott is 50 years old. He had four children. He was actually
engaged to be married. And he was also a Coast Guard vet and the family had just had an anniversary gathering. For the family, that was the last
time that they saw him. When he pulled up, Nancy, when the cop had stopped him, he was in the parking lot of on auto parts store. So I believe
there`s going to be more witnesses to this event that are going to come out and that are going to be key to this case.
GRACE: And Daryl Parks, I have prosecuted I don`t even know how many cases. To pull somebody over for a busted taillight, a brake light, and
then suddenly the person is dead on the ground? I mean, Mr. Parks, this man, Scott, Mr. Scott, is old enough to be Slager`s father. And you have
got this guy running from a young cop. That is just wrong. No felony record whatsoever. I don`t know what the evidence is of a struggle, but
that`s what Slager says. How can this possibly be OK?
PARKS: It is not okay. And this video is very important for the country right now, Nancy. Because without this video, we would never really get to
the truth. We get to the version of the officer on his radio talking about the guy tried to take his taser. But this video shows the truth. And I
believe in this situation here we should believe our lying eyes. The video tells it all. There was no threat to this officer at that time.
GRACE: Here is what`s happening right now. Right now, there is a murder charge. The officer has been taken off administrative leave. He has been
fired. Question: Will he see the death penalty?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:36:13] GRACE: A family, mom, dad, two children in the backseat, cut off in traffic. When they follow the guy to get his tag number, the nutjob
leaps out of his car with a chain saw and comes after the family.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Mama!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): A mom and dad in the car with their two young children. They say this driver cut them off. And when confronted,
he began brandishing a chain saw. That`s right -- a chain saw. The mom in the other vehicle reportedly tells the man to bring it on.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Mama!
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Mama!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rita Cosby, investigative journalist and WABC host. Rita, what happened?
RITA COSBY, INVESTGATIVE JOURNALIST, WABC HOST: This is such a wild story, Nancy. Two parents with their two kids who are in the backseat are driving
down the street. Suddenly they get cut off by a guy in a minivan. Then he starts driving erratically. They follow him because they want to get his
license plate number and report him to the cops. They end up in a cul-de- sac, in a dead end. They block him off, they cut him off so he can`t go anywhere. They are starting to write down the license plate number and
call the cops, and suddenly this guy walks up and surprises them. Knocks on the driver side door and whips out the chain saw and starts threatening
the whole family.
GRACE: Chris Fargo, reporter, dailymail.com. So I don`t understand. They follow the guy just to get his tag number. He leaps out of car with a
chain saw, turns it on, and comes towards the family.
CHRIS FARGO, REPORTER, DAILYMAIL.COM (via telphone): Right. This man is walking towards these parents, two small children in the backseat, an 8-
year-old girl, a 5-year-old boy, revving a chain saw. So Corrine (ph) immediately began recording the incident because she thought if I get him
on this camera phone, he`ll be scared and he`ll go back in the car. It`s the exact opposite. He`s smiling at the camera, he`s making more gestures.
The entire time you hear these two small children screaming in the backseat. He meanwhile is smiling, making lewd sexual guest gestures
toward the children. And finally, after a minute, he walks back to his car, gets in, hits the family`s car, and drives off as if nothing happened.
GRACE: Imagine if your children are in the backseat. Listen to these screams.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Mama!
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Mama!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All right, unleash the lawyers. Joining me Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom Also with me, psychologist Caryn Stark. All right, Peter Odom, why
shouldn`t this guy rot in jail?
ODOM: Well, Nancy, you know, the people in the car that followed him started it all. They were pursuing him. This guy had every reason to feel
threatened when these people pursued him into a cul-de-sac and them trapped him down there.
GRACE: I really don`t know how you even live with yourself.
ODOM: I live very well with myself, Nancy. I`m talking reality.
GRACE: That`s clearly an argument crafted in hell. Because you got a mother, a father, children in the backseat.
ODOM: Argument crafted in hell?
GRACE: Peter Odom, all they do is go and get his tag number. Alex Sanchez, please tell me you`re not jumping on that bandwagon that is it`s
the family`s fault. Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: I think this case is ridiculous. A video camera is going to stop a crazy chain saw attacker? It`s obvious this man was not trying to attack
anybody. Maybe he`s trying to scare them, but the fact of the matter is they committed a crime by trapping him in an enclosed area.
GRACE: They committed no crime whatsoever. They followed him to get his tag number.
SANCHEZ: No. Yes, but then they blocked his car. They blocked his car, that means they were entrapping him and preventing him from leaving. You
have a right to defend yourself.
[20:40:03] GRACE: Dr. Michelle DuPre -- forensic pathologist, Dr. DuPre. What would one active chain saw cut do to a five-year-old`s arm or neck or
leg? One slice with a chain saw? Just one.
DR. MICHELLE DUPRE, M.D., FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, it would be devastating. It would be absolutely devastating, a horrible injury. Death
would likely ensue.
GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychologist. You just heard Peter Odom and Sanchez -- I think it was Sanchez that blurted out he was just trying to
scare them. Well, you know what? That`s what aggravated assault is, when you put someone in fear of immediate serious bodily harm.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well and not only that, Nancy. There are children in the car. You can`t scare children that way. That`s
terrifying; they will not forget this incident and it will keep reoccuring for them. You do not threat within a chain saw. I would have been
terrified sitting in that car. Something is wrong with him.
GRACE: You`re right, Caryn. And if you don`t believe that this family was afraid listen to these screams.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Mama!
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: Mama!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:27] GRACE: To Amish country. A quiet and peace loving community torn asunder after two little Amish girls kidnapped, snatched from their
parents` roadside fruit stand. Perpetrators: a 39-year-old man and his 25- year-old lover for the attack on these two little girls. Sources in the investigation reveal the two girls neither the first nor the last. These
two intended to molest.
(BBGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One is an RN and the other works in pet grooming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Running a child pornography operation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two little Amish girls have been abducted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking into all aspects of that to see if there are any other victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Rita Cosby, investigator journalist, WABC host. Rita, these two little girls -- I think we`ve got video of the parents` roadside stand,
these two little sisters. Apparently a car comes up to the stand and the little girls rush out of the barn -- this is in Amish country -- to speak
to the potential customers, when they are kidnapped, taken to this pervert`s home. He and his girlfriend in on it together. They sexually
assault the two little girls. Look at them -- Nicole and Steven Howells II. They chain the two little girls together and video the assault.
Now tell me, is there a secret plea deal in the works?
COSBY: Yes. Yes, we are hearing a secret deal is in the works. And that`s why so many people are so absolutely angry, because if anybody
deserves the full punishment, boy, do these two people. And as you point out, Nancy, this is not the first case. They abducted six girls total that
we know of. In fact, one of them for two years. And the only reason these two young Amish girls got away, aged 7 and 12, apparently according to the
-- this is the attorney for the woman, the girlfriend, she was somehow able to convince her boyfriend not to kill them and let them go. They then ran
to a neighbor`s house and finally made it home. But he was about to bury them alive.
GRACE: Oh dear lord in heaven. I did not know his plan was the bury them alive. So let me ask you this. Is the woman, the 25-year-old lover who
coincidentally got her degree in a very respected college in Mercyhurst -- and she actually did a study on rape and does pornography induce rape. All
right, she did that.
Now let me ask you this, Rita Cosby. These two, how long had this been going on? How many other victims do you think there were? What became of
those victims? And how do we know this?
COSBY: Well, we know this from a number of those who have reported it to authorities, also clues that they have found in that house of horrors now
that they were tracked back to. What`s so surprising, Nancy, is they didn`t catch these two sooner. Because when these two girls were let go,
they were able to trace it back to this couple almost immediately. And inside, cops also found videos which also led to other girls as well. But
we know some of the cases go back as far as 2008.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, it`s my understanding this guy was in the midst -- Stephen Howells, Jr., aged 39, and Nicole Vaisey, aged 25 -- that he was in
the middle of building a the soundproof room so his child victims couldn`t be heard. And also based on pornographic videos they found at the home, he
had also been doing the same type of crime on handicapped people.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, you`re right, Nancy. And federal authorities say they were running this child porn operation, exploiting
these children for years. That there are 15 additional times the couple made child pornography. And also that the -- Vaisey had actually allegedly
told investigators that she and Howells were on a shopping trip and they wanted to make the girls their slaves.
GRACE: I just thank god in heaven the two little sisters were saved. Rita Cosby telling us that there is a secret plea deal in the works. Nothing
but life. Nothing but life is appropriate in this case. Sadly, they can`t get the death penalty. Nothing but life is appropriate here.
So Rita Cosby, isn`t it true they lured the girls with a puppy?
[20:50:03] COSBY: Yes, they lured the little girls with a puppy. Again, they were at this roadside stand, this beautiful - and this is a very rural
area, Nancy. Beautiful area. Not a lot of crime in this area. It`s a family farm stand. And so they suddenly came upon it, said, we have a
puppy. We want to show you this dog. Clearly this had been something they had done before over and over again. And thank goodness, the cops found
those videos and are able to detect other victims. What they are trying do is find out a way to throw the book at them. But then we`re hearing of
this secret plea deal, which is outrageous.
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what more do we know? what do we know about these two little Amish girls being sedated before they were sexually assaulted?
ZARRELL: Yes, it`s believed that Howells injected at least one of the girls, if not both, with a prescription sedative, possibly Ambien, shortly
after the abduction from the vegetable stand. There are reports, Nancy, that the cops found used hypodermic needles in the residence. And I should
note that Howells worked as a nurse in a hospital which could explain how he had access to these medications.
GRACE: Well, what about the woman? Vaisey?
ZARRELL: She wrote a -- you were mentioning the college thesis. She wrote a paper about whether watching pornography changed perceptions about rape.
And she ended up producing child pornography, according to authorities.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Alex Sanchez and Peter Odom. OK, Odom, she`s claiming a "50 Shades of Gray" defense, that he made her do it.
ODOM: It sounds to me, Nancy, as if -- I know that you and Rita are very critical of the secret plea deal here. But you knew this when you were a
prosecutor, 95 percent of all criminal cases are resolved with a negotiated plea. This is the best result for this case. Now, the judge
has supervisory authority --
GRACE: Can you address the question I asked you?
ODOM: You didn`t ask me a question. You just made a statement about her defense.
GRACE: I asked you about the "50 Shades of Gray" -- well, maybe Mr. Snachez can understand my question. Alex, I understand that the female co-
defendant in this case, 25-year-old Nicole Vaisey, is claiming a "50 Shades of Gray" defense. What does that mean to you?
SANCHEZ: Well, I think if she wants to advance that defense, that somehow she was psychologically enslaved by this guy, her lawyer and her better go
to the prosecutors. And they better have a sit down meeting and explain why she believes that she was so subservient to this individual for the
purposes of either building a case against the co-defendant and trying to garner some type of reasonable deal for herself. But in either event,
they`re both going a away for a long, long time. That`s all I can tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:45]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a sweetheart plea deal in the works for a couple accused of kidnapping two Amish sisters and sexually abusing them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Motive was to victimize the girls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What I don`t understand, Rita Cosby, is the female who claims -- the female defendant claims that this man had so much power over her that
she kidnapped and handcuffed these two little Amish sisters together, then took part in sexually molesting them, videoed it, and it`s all because he
made her do it. What about the other six or seven times? What about the handicap people they did this to? Did she make - did he make her do all
that too, Rita?
COSBY: Well, that`s the thing that many people are saying is an outrageous claim, because this was over years. Also she is charged with sexual
exploitation as well. In other words, she was involved in the sex acts, not just tying them up, but actually involved in the sex acts themselves.
So this is a very serious case. And then suddenly she`s claiming that that master/slave relationship changed and she was able to convince him to let
the two girls go. A lot of people are having a hard time with her actual defense.
GRACE: The lawyers, Alex Sanchez, Peter Odom, psychologist Caryn Stark. So Peter Odom, does the fact she says she convinced him not to kill the
children when that was his plan defeat her claim of coercion, a "50 Shades of Gray" defense?
ODOM: No, but it might get her a less sentence. It might get the judge, the federal judge that`s eventually going to make a decision, to take
sympathy on her for having, quote, "saved the children".
GRACE: What about it, Caryn Stark?
STARK: Well, Nancy, it`s very hard to believe that --
GRACE: Whoa, look at that picture, Caryn Stark. Doesn`t look like master/slave to me. Looks like she`s having a good time.
STARK: It doesn`t look like master/slave and it isn`t master/slave. Because if it were master/slave, how did they change roles? There`s no
such thing that all of a sudden the person who`s in charge gets to listen to the person who is the slave and they switch roles. That makes no sense.
GRACE: So what do we know, Rita, about the plea deal? Is it possible they are pleading to life? Because if you take each one of these counts, they
could get life plus life plus life plus life. Could they be pleading to life?
COSBY: We don`t know that right now. There are federal and state charges, Nancy. So we don`t know if it`s just on the state charges, if it`s on the
federal charges. If a deal is not reached, they will go to trial in July. But also in many of the cases, like in federal, you only serve 85 percent.
In state it could be even less. So we don`t know. Obviously people are hoping they will stay behind bars a long time.
GRACE: Forever. Nothing will do but life behind bars.
Let`s stop and remember American hero Army Private First Class Shane Austin, just 19. Egerton, Kansas. Bronze star, purple heart, a post
office at home named in his honor. Loved military history. Never afraid to try something new. Parents, Terrence and Debra. Brothers, Justin and
Kyle. Sister, Cara. Shane Austin, American hero.
Drew up next. I will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
