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South Carolina Shooting; Aaron Hernandez Trial. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 09, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:03] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Brooke Baldwin.

He never grabbed the Taser. The only known witness contradicting an officer's account of what happened in the moments before the cell phone video that has sent shock waves across the country. Huge developments today in the fallout from the fatal encounter between South Carolina Police Officer Michael Slager, there on the right, and the man that he pulled over, Walter Scott. We should warn you that what you are about to see is graphic and disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands behind your back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Fifty-year-old Walter Scott died where he fell and officer Michael Slager has been thrown off the force now and he's facing a murder charge. So many questions linger. But there is one that could mean the difference between murder and manslaughter, and that is, what happened before the cell phone video starts? One person now says he can at least partially answer that question. He's the man who shot the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEIDIN SANTANA, WITNESS WHO FILMED SHOOTING: Before I started recording, they went down on the floor. I remember the police had control of the situation. He had control of Scott. And Scott was trying just to get away from - from the Taser, which the Taser, you know, you can hear the sound of the Taser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had been Tased at that point?

SANTANA: Yes, yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you heard the sound?

SANTANA: And hear - yes, I was hearing the sound before I started recording. And I believe he just wanted to get away of the Taser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Brian Todd is in North Charleston, South Carolina.

You're there in this town, Brian. Paint us a picture of how Slager and Scott got from the site of that traffic stop to where the shooting actually happened. It's not so close, right?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is not, Brianna. You know, we've paced it off just a short time ago. We've marked 246 yards between the point of the traffic stop, which is in the parking lot of an Advanced Auto Parts store, about a block and a half away, to where the - the vacant lot begins, the entrance to the vacant lot is, and then to the end of the - to the vacant lot, near the end of it, which is the final point where Walter Scott fell. That's 246 yards from start to finish. That is a lot of ground to cover for a routine traffic stop that escalated so very quickly.

Those are some crucial gaps to fill. Why did it get that far? Why did Walter Scott exit his vehicle? Those are some key questions to fill. We're trying to kind of piece together the scene and reconstruct it to answer some of those questions.

We asked those questions yesterday to the North Charleston police chief and to the mayor. They would not answer those questions, saying that is all part of the investigation, Brianna. So those are some key questions that we are pursuing this afternoon.

But, again, I mean just some crucial gaps here to fill. Why was he stopped for a busted taillight at 9:30 in the morning? What caused him to exit the vehicle? How did this confrontation escalate? You know Feidin Santana, the man who took that amateur video, says that before he started shooting the video, they were on the ground rolling around and that the victim, Walter Scott, at one point he thinks he ran because he was trying to get away from the Taser. So that might have been a reason that he ran. But how it got so far, that's still being pieced together, Brianna.

KEILAR: And one of the gaps that needs to be filled is going to be the traffic stop as it begins. We understand there is dash camera, right, in that police car. Are we going to find out at any time what it shows? Will it be released?

TODD: We are expecting that it will be released, Brianna. We just don't know exactly when. They have said that there is some dash cam video. They're not making any promises as to what it shows. We're getting some indications that, well, it may just show the traffic stop and not much else.

But here's a key piece of evidence that it could show. And I just spoke to a former local prosecutor about this. He says this is going to show not only the traffic stop itself but what caused Walter Scott to exit that vehicle. Remember, this was a busted taillight. That's not something that we usually get out of our cars to deal with. We absorb the traffic ticket. We may speak to the officer. We usually stay in the car. What caused him to get out of the vehicle? Did the officer ask him to do it? Did he do it on his own? Those are some of the things that that dash cam video will show. And we're being told this could be - could be a crucial piece of evidence.

[14:05:05] KEILAR: Very - very much it could be. All right, Brian Todd for us there in North Charleston, South Carolina. Thank you.

Going public was really tough for Feidin Santana, the bystander who took that video of Walter Scott's killing. His attorney explaining why on the "Today" show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD RUTHERFORD, ATTORNEY FOR MAN WHO RECORDED KILLING: He's afraid. The first thing he said to me this morning was, how can I get protection? You've got other officers that are now being investigated because of this video that said that they performed CPR on Mr. Scott as he was laying there dying and he says that in five minutes afterwards he never saw them do any life saving techniques at all, including CPR. So what does he do when the people that are supposed to protect us are the ones that have turned against us?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: There's no question that in the video ex-Officer Michael Slager does not offer medical help to Scott. The 50-year-old man was hit by five bullets, but did any officer help? Multiple police reports say that medical aid was given. So what are officers obligated to do and when are they obligated to do it?

With me now to talk about this, we have David Katz, he's the CEO of Global Security Group, formally with the DEA, and we have DeRay McKesson, who organized protests against police abuse in Ferguson, Missouri.

So, David, this is the question I have, because I've gone through this video and I've timed it out and it's - it does end, the video, after about three minutes. But you've got from the time that Walter Scott falls to the ground until the end of the video where you see things like Officer Slager checking the pulse of Walter Scott. Before that, we see Officer Habersham, who appears to be looking at the wounds, but there's no blood on his gloves. That is more than two and a half minutes and there are no life saving measures that have been given at that point. What - what's the protocol?

DAVID KATZ, FORMER SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT, DEA: Well, generally - I mean I can tell you what it was for us. If you were not a first responder - we had - we had an EMT program. If you were a first responder, you had to render aid. But if you were involved in a shooting, you were actually the one who defended themselves - himself or herself and caused the injury, you were not obligated to render aid. In fact, the initial protocol, the only thing I can say that is even remotely close to correct protocol is cuffing. And people say, well, why did he cuff him? That's just what we do. If someone goes down, whether they're shot, whether they're not, they get cuffed. At some point other -

KEILAR: Even if they're unconscious?

KATZ: Yes. Yes. The reason is because I can give you chapter and verse on this, people who we think are unconscious or even dead have suddenly come around and killed police officers. That's why that's done. But the next responders, when they arrive, they should be giving aid.

KEILAR: OK, but the real issue that you point out, and we were talking about this is, how does it get from a traffic stop, a taillight out at 9:30 in the morning, to a pursuit like this? And then as Walter Scott is moving away from the officer, it becomes a shooting. Eight shots fired.

KATZ: Yes. Yes. Well, starting with the stop. I mean the fact that it's 9:30 in the morning, that's - it's irrelevant. If you're - if you're out and you see a taillight, it's a violation. It's a VTL (ph). Probably, and this is just complete guess work on my part, there might have been something that led Officer Slager to make an arrest. Maybe there was a warrant. Maybe, you know (ph), he had child support issues.

KEILAR: Yes.

KATZ: Maybe -- I don't know. And I don't know if they've made it public. But at some point it appears he's ordered out of the car and now it's going to be an arrest situation. How do you get from the car stop to the location of the incident? Probably - it probably indicates that he fled to avoid arrest. Taking all these facts into consideration, it still doesn't explain the use of - the use of the firearm. If you're tussling with somebody, maybe they're difficult for you to get into handcuffs, yes, you can go to the intermediate step, which is your Taser, baton, pepper spray.

KEILAR: Which it appears he did.

KATZ: Which it appears he did.

KEILAR: Yes.

KATZ: Which, for some reason, it appeared to be ineffective. But then as he's running away --

KEILAR: There's just no - no justification for it.

KATZ: There's no justification.

KEILAR: OK.

So, DeRay, you have the leader today of the Charleston NAACP saying that Scott's death is the result of racial profiling. I want you to listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOT S. SCOTT, PRESIDENT, CHARLESTON BRANCH NAACP: We don't even have an inspection law for cars. But folks are being stopped because you crossed the yellow line just a little bit. So what other reason other than, if we stop you there's a possibility we will find something else? Far too often they are stopped and then we have to search you. Those - those are the things that make us think that is racial profiling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think, DeRay?

DERAY MCKESSON, FERGUSON PROTEST ORGANIZER: Yes, I think - I think she's right. You know, and it's interesting, when I listened to what the - the other speaker said is that black people are criminalized even in death with the protocols and practices of police departments to handcuff people that have clearly been shot death, to not render aid. He just said is really the - that is the state of procedure and practice of policing.

The video in this case has been a reminder of how deadly the police are in black America. And, you know, they say that like one instance is an outlier, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern. What do you call 300 in 2015 alone?

[14:10:03] KEILAR: What do you think about this - you're saying it's not an outlier. But we understand that according to a study done in this state, in the last five years police officers in South Carolina actually fired weapons at 209 suspects.

MCKESSON: Right.

KEILAR: None of them were convicted. Do you think that this is - this is not an anomaly? You think that some of those other instances would be different as well if there was video?

MCKESSON: Yes, the only thing that's different about this is the video. This is the same narrative that we saw with Mike Brown, Esil (ph) Ford, Darian (ph) Hunt, Dontre Hamilton. This is a familiar refrain. An all too familiar and deadly refrain in black America. So the only thing that's different about this is a video.

KEILAR: What do you think about the police report, David? It's so contradictory to what we see on the video here.

KATZ: The police - yes, absolutely. But, you know, that's to be expected in a case where the officer - I'm sure that the officer, after the fact, realized, oh my God, what did I do?

KEILAR: You think as soon - as soon as he has fired shots?

KATZ: Oh, yes. And by the way, I have to admit, this is in no way shape or form anything remotely close to the Michael Brown shooting. With respect to the gentlemen, Michael Brown was the bad actor. Those - the incidents of that day were the result of his actions. This is totally different. And to make that comparison is not fair and it's not just.

KEILAR: And we understand at a certain point, and, DeRay, we should talk about that as well. What do you think about that? Because the "hands up don't shoot" narrative has turned out to be false in this case. And you look at this video, for instance, and you see Walter Scott clearly running away from the officer. MCKESSON: Let's be clear, it's not - it has not been determined false

by a court of law. That was a specific legal standing that the DOJ spoke about and that was not, again, a criminal proceeding.

When I think about what this narrative is, is that the narrative of - or the story of somebody reaching for an officer's weapon and then the officer having to kill them because they fear for their life is something that we hear all the time. What we - it's what we heard in this case until we saw the video. It's what we heard in Milwaukee with Dontre Hamilton, until we heard in Utah with Darrien Hunt, this happens frequently. Again, what's difference about this is that there's a video. This is like all the other cases and that's what makes this so damming. Police brutality is real in black America and it continues to be deadly.

KEILAR: You think this is the same - this is apples to apples with the Michael Brown case?

MCKESSON: I think that this is similar in a way that is problematic and highlights that there's serious problems with policing in America. And it also highlights why we can't trust the police narratives. Not only did he lie about the shooting, but he also planted a gun - or planted a Taser. Look, we saw that happen. We saw that happen on camera. How do you trust after that?

KEILAR: Yes, and clearly that's - and I know that's something that you and David certainly agree with on this. That's a - that a sentiment that he expressed to me as well.

DeRay McKesson, thank you so much for being with us. David Katz, really appreciate it.

KATZ: Sure.

KEILAR: Next, what about the other officers? Are they complicit in this? They were a part of the police report. Hear why their accounts don't match the video.

And then you're about to hear from a man who says that he was once Tased by this very officer, Michael Slager. He filed an excessive force complaint. Nothing was found to be wrong with what Slager had done. Opens some more questions. Don't miss that.

And at any time we are expecting a decision from the jury in the Aaron Hernandez case. But as the former NFL star waits to hear his fate, there's drama unfolding in the courtroom and it involves the jurors. Hear what happened, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:48] KEILAR: Back to South Carolina in a moment.

But first, jurors weighing the fate of ex-NFL star Aaron Hernandez. They're back behind closed doors with a verdict possibly any time. The former Patriots tight end is accused of shooting and killing his friend Odin Lloyd. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti is in Fall River following the case.

Give us the latest, Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna.

This is day three of deliberations and so far this jury has sent out six, count them six notes, mainly having to do with exhibits but also asking kind of complicated questions that they were given before they begin their deliberations. For example, what does it mean to have controlled possession of a firearm? Things like that. To show you how precise they need to be about the questions they are considering. And with more than 440 exhibits to look at, over the course of ten weeks that have been gathered in this trial, they have a lot to consider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Each day a traditional call to order. After 135 witnesses, stretching over nearly 11 weeks, a jury will now decide the fate of former New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez.

PATRICK BOMBERG, BRISTOL ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The commonwealth is going to prove to you that the defendant committed the crime of murder.

CANDIOTTI: But a hard-fought a defense contends Hernandez would never kill his good friend Odin Lloyd, who was dating Shanea Jenkins, the sister of his fiance.

MICHAEL FEE, HERNANDEZ'S ATTORNEY: Aaron Hernandez was planning his future, not a murder.

CANDIOTTI: There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence from the crime scene, an isolated pit in an industrial park where Lloyd's bullet-riddled body is found. Experts testify a marijuana blunt with DNA from Hernandez and Lloyd put them both at the spot. A tire on Hernandez's rental car is consistent with tracks in there too. A shoe impression in the dirt comes from the same kind of sneaker he is seen on video wear that night. In each case, the defend attacks those findings.

JAMIE SULTAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You can't tell us, sir, can you, that that outsole pattern made that impression, (INAUDIBLE), can you, sir?

[14:20:14] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

CANDIOTTI: Prosecutors tried to prove this grainy home security video, minutes after Lloyd is killed, shows Hernandez holding a Glock.

KYLE ASPINWALL, GLOCK SALES MANAGER: In my opinion, the firearm show in the video stills is a Glock pistol.

CANDIOTTI: But the defense argues that's no Glock. Maybe an iPad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glock pistols don't have white (ph) glows (ph) to them, do they, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they do not.

CANDIOTTI: The murder weapon is still missing. Does Hernandez fiance, Shayanna Jenkins, throw it out? She gets immunity and testifies Hernandez told her to ditch a box inside this black trash bag from the basement.

WILLIAM MCCAULEY, PROSECUTOR: The defendant had called you and said it was important that you go down and get this box and get rid of it, is that right?

SHAYANNA JENKINS, FIANCE OF AARON HERNANDEZ: I believe so.

CANDIOTTI: But on cross, she says she smells marijuana inside that bag. What may be harder to challenge is video of Odin Lloyd getting into a car with Hernandez and his two friends. The same car going into that dark industrial park. And three minutes and 40 seconds later, reappearing, then driving back to Hernandez's driveway without Lloyd. A show-stopping witness, Hernandez's former boss, Patriots' owner Robert Kraft, who met privately with his tight end two days after the murder.

ROBERT KRAFT, OWNER, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: He said he was not involved, that he was innocent, and that he hoped that the time of the murder incident came out because I believe he said he was in a club.

CANDIOTTI: Yet evidence shows Hernandez was not at a club that night and raises the question, how would he know the time of the murder when it was not yet made public?

Throughout the trial, Hernandez is laser sharp during the proceedings, barely glancing at victim Odin Lloyd's family there every day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: But then a surprising development during closing arguments. The defense, after weeks of fighting it, acknowledging that Aaron Hernandez was at the crime scene, but indicating he saw something happen committed by other people, pointing the finger at his two co- defendants who will be tried separately.

Brianna.

KEILAR: That's right, a change that no doubt will be not - will be identified by the jurors there. So, Susan, this is an interesting thing that happened. Before the jury resumed deliberation this morning, there was actually a dust up in the courtroom and jurors were saying that they were followed by a local TV station. What's that about?

CANDIOTTI: Right. Two jurors were brought in for questions because they brought to the court's attention they said that when they went to their cars - they are escorted to a parking lot - they noticed that a can, an unmarked car, was following them, an SUV. And one of the jurors said that he took a picture of the license plate of that vehicle. And it turns out that the vehicle is owned by the television station WHDH in Boston, which is a CNN affiliate. The judge very concerned about this, worrying that the jurors might be

being harassed by television reporter - or this particular television station. And at this hour, that photographer, who was inside that unmarked car, is being questioned, along with an attorney. And the television station issued this statement. It says, "this morning in the Aaron Hernandez trial, the judge questioned 7 News as to any impropriety with the jury in the case. 7 News did not approach any juror or talk to any juror. We also did not videotape or take pictures of any juror. We are continuing to work with the court and investigate the situation."

So right now the judge is deciding whether anything unfortunate happened, whether the jurors were improperly gotten close to in any way. And if she wants to do it, she could yank the credentials of that television station from this courthouse. So we're waiting for that decision.

KEILAR: All right, Susan Candiotti, we'll keep an eye out for that as well.

Next, back to our breaking news out of South Carolina, where we are awaiting two big events related to that deadly shooting caught on video. You're about to hear from a man who says that he was once Tased by this very officer, that he filed an excessive force complaint. Don't miss that.

Plus, Walter Scott's family is about to speak live as the mother of the victim is speaking out about her personal tragedy now unfolding on a national stage.

[14:24:52] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDY SCOTT, WALTER SCOTT'S MOTHER: I couldn't really watch the whole tape. When I saw my son running, and I saw the policeman behind him, I couldn't take it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: I'm Brianna Keilar.

The graphic video of this fatal police shooting. We've heard politicians, law enforcement officials, civil rights leaders dissect what they see in those last few moments of Walter Scott's life. And now we hear a very personal reaction from the victim's mother. Anderson Cooper spoke with Judy Scott about her son's death and seeing it on video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AC 360": First of all, how are you - how are you holding up?

JUDY SCOTT, SON KILLED BY SOUTH CAROLINA COP: The Lord is my strength. He's helping me to hold out. COOPER: That's what's keeping you going right now?

SCOTT: Yes. Yes. Knowing God as my personal Savior.

COOPER: When did you get the news about your son?

SCOTT: It was Saturday.

[14:30:04] COOPER: What did - what did you hear? What did they tell you?

SCOTT: They - really my elder son is the one that told me.