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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

South Carolina Shooting; Video Contradicts Police Report. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 09, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm going to start saying, forget saying debris. I'm now going to say debris forever.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well done. Well done.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: One thing accomplished by that heist.

That's it for us today. Thanks for watching, everyone.

BOLDUAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome. This is LEGAL VIEW.

And at this hour, we've got some brand new information about that fatal encounter between a South Carolina police officer and a man he pulled over for a broken taillight. Now some details about what happened in the moments before that shooting happened. And it comes from the brave eyewitness who shot this video. A video that could expose a possible murder. That's the charge and so far it's the story.

In the meantime, the North Charleston Police Department is taking swift action. They have fired Officer Michael Slager as he faces these murder charges. And they're making some further changes to the department on top of that as well. Slager was not wearing a body camera when he shot 50-year-old Walter Scott. And now the mayor has said that the city is also ordering an additional 150 body cameras to outfit every one of their officers who are out on the beat.

The man who captured that video of the deadly encounter, Feiden Santana, is now speaking out. He was on his way to work when he saw an altercation and he saw it was escalating and he turned on his phone. Here is his explanation of what he saw before he started recording the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What made you pick up your phone and start shooting on Saturday?

FEIDEN SANTANA, SHOT VIDEO OF THE SHOOTING: Well, when I saw the scene, I was walking to my job. I was walking to my job, you know, I see Mr. Scott, rest in peace, and I saw police after him, chase him. I was on a phone call and I decide to go over there and see what was going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there a struggle?

SANTANA: There was. They were down on the floor. They were down on the floor before -- before the - I started recording and they were down on the floor. I remember the police had control of the situation. He had control of Scott. And Scott was trying just to get away from - from the Taser. Which a Taser, you know, I - you can hear the sound of the Taser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had been Tased at that point?

SANTANA: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you heard the sound?

SANTANA: Yes, I can hear - yes, I heard the sound before I started recording. And I believe he just wanted to get away of the Taser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So this is still a rapidly changing story. I want to bring in CNN's Jason Carroll, who's on the ground. He's following the developments for us in North Charleston, South Carolina.

Look, there are a lot of questions, Jason, at this point as to what happened before that now famous video actually began.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BANFIELD: And we only get a split second of what looks like some kind of altercation. But there is dash cam video from the cruiser, yet we don't - we don't have it. Is there any indication of whether that will be made public and when?

CARROLL: It will be made public. The question of when is still out there, but it will be made public. The agency that's handling that is the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division or SLED. I spoke to the spokesperson just a short while ago about those dash cam videos.

Here's the problem. There are multiple dash cam videos from these officers that responded to the shooting. So that is what they're looking at, at this point. There are two in question, obviously, that from Officer Slager and from Officer Habersham, that's the second officer that showed up following the shooting.

In all likelihood, they'll probably release those two dash cam videos first. But in terms of what we will actually see on those dash cam videos might be somewhat disappointing. According to the spokesperson, Thom Berry, who has not personally seen the dash cam videos yet, but does have knowledge of what is on them, he basically says Officer Slager's dash cam video - first of all, it does not show the shooting. It only shows, in all likelihood, the initial moments following the traffic stop. It may not even, Ashleigh, show the struggle between Scott and Slager because, according to Berry, that happened some distance away and out of camera shot, if you will, from that dash cam. So we're not likely to see very much on those dash cam videos, but they will eventually be released.

BANFIELD: I recall that that witness who shot the video, Feiden Santana, saying the same thing, that it was quite a distance apart from where the traffic stop happened to where that shooting actually began.

Jason, one quick question for you about the community.

CARROLL: Yes.

BANFIELD: I think we all remember Ferguson exploded so quickly after the killing of Michael Brown and yet there seems to be some sense of reserved judgment in this community. Not all, but the streets are definitely not on fire where you are. Is that likely to last?

[12:05:10] CARROLL: You know, it's drastically different. And as you know, I was in Ferguson, so I saw what happened there, saw how it developed here. This is a much different situation. You have - first of all you've got the police, who made an arrest almost immediately once that video came out and so that certainly satisfied many people here in the community. It certainly satisfied the family in some way, the Scott family in some ways as well. Also you had the mayor and the police chief reaching out to the family almost immediately after as well.

Also, just want you to listen very quickly to what Scott's own attorney had to say about the situation here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS STEWART, SCOTT FAMILY ATTORNEY: No justice, no peace. The problem with that is, if we don't have peace, we can't get to justice in this case because this thing is going perfectly. We're fighting hard for the family. The man has been arrested. We're going to fight to make sure that he's prosecuted. We're going to file the civil claim so that his children are taken care of for the rest of their life. His family is starting to heal. No peace would just wreck everything that this family stood for, that the man who died stood for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Also, Ashleigh, you remember that poignant interview Anderson Cooper did with Scott's mother last night were even she said she could find it in her heart to forgive Officer Slager. So a much different situation here on the ground.

BANFIELD: And just a remarkable amount of grace from what would appear all members of that family. Jason Carroll live for us. Thank you.

You know, there are a lot of questions and they are troubling in the fatal shooting of this unarmed - or apparently unarmed man in North Charleston, South Carolina. I want to show you a Google Earth view. It shows where Walter Scott was pulled over on Saturday morning by Officer Slager allegedly for that broken taillight. Officer Slager then reported there was a foot chase that ensured. Look at the distance between those two points. Yes, it is a short distance, but it is a long distance when you're talking about camera angles. It ended near an alley. And that's where Scott was shot to death while fleeing from Officer Slager. One inconsistency that has now come to light is whether police gave medical assistance to Scott after he was shot. The police reports say that they did, but the video shows something very different. And with that here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chief of police or the mayor. Which one -

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The questions about Officer Michael Slager came hard and fast. Eddie Driggers is the chief of the North Charleston Police.

CHIEF EDDIE DRIGGERS, NORTH CHARLESTON, SC POLICE: To my knowledge, nobody was witness to anything but Slager.

TUCHMAN: Slager handcuffed Walter Scott after he shot him. But at least on video did not appear to aid him. Shortly after the shooting, another officer shows up, identified by the police department as Sergeant Habersham. In the incident report, Habersham declared, "I attempted to render aid to the victim by applying pressure to the gunshot wounds," but no mention of CPR, chest compressions. Ultimately, several police officers are seen on video at the site. One of them says in his statement, Habersham did perform CPR, despite Habersham not mentioning it. Sergeant Gan (ph) says he helped Habersham, stating, "I exited my vehicle and assisted Officer Habersham with first aid and CPR. We continued to perform first aid and CPR until EMS arrived on the scene." Still another officer, identified as Sergeant Webb (ph), declared, "I observed Private First Class Habersham administering chest compressions to the defendant."

So after the handcuffs were put on, which the mayor says is standard policy across the country, the question remains.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Was CPR ever performed on this man as far as you know?

DRIGGERS: I'm going to be - I'm going to be totally honest with you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do that.

DRIGGERS: I am. And give me just a second. The honesty comes from my heart. I - I have watched the video. And I was sickened by what I saw.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Part of what the chief saw was no CPR.

DRIGGERS: In the end of it, what I saw was a - a - I believe to be a police officer removing the shirt of the individual and performing some type of life-saving, but I'm not - I'm not sure what took place there.

TUCHMAN (on camera): But you don't - you don't know if CPR was performed?

DRIGGERS: No, I do - I do not know. I - I - I was told that life- saving - that they tried to save his life.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): The investigation has been handed off to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, known as SLED. But without elaborating, the North Charleston Police Department does say there may be more video to examine. So did any of those other officers give inaccurate statements about the aftermath of the smoothing?

TUCHMAN (on camera): Amid the sadness and tragedy, that's a possibility that will most certainly be examined by the state agency now conducting the investigation.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): At the end of the news conference, the North Charleston mayor was asked one more question about CPR.

[12:10:07] MAYOR KEITH SUMMEY, NORTH CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA: Not every officer is CPR certified.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Why not?

TUCHMAN: And with that, the mayor and police chief left the podium, so many questions still unanswered.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, North Charleston, South Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And coming up next, the police Taser. Did Walter Scott grab it? Did he take it? Did the police officer who shot him drop it? That weapon is one of the keys to this case. And we've got some veteran police officers coming up to talk about what they see in this very damming video.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One brave witness, Feiden Santana, is the only reason right now that the public knows about the possible murder, and I do say possible as this is a charge in the murder of Walter Scott. I want you to listen to what Mr. Santana says about why he came forward with the video of the shooting despite the fact he was afraid for his own life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEIDEN SANTANA, SHOT VIDEO OF THE SHOOTING: I even thought about erasing the video and -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

SANTANA: I don't know. I felt that my life - you know, my - with this information might be like the same danger. And I tried to - to - I thought about erasing the video and just getting out of the community of North Charleston, you know, and living someplace else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leaving town?

SANTANA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you were that scared?

SANTANA: Yes. I knew - like I say, I knew that like (INAUDIBLE) I saw the video, I knew that a cop didn't do - didn't - didn't do the right way, the right thing. And like I say, I feel, yes, kind of scared of that - about that.

[12:15:07] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you decided instead of deleting the video, you decided to do what?

SANTANA: I decided - I look at the police report. You know, I went home. After I finished working, I went home. Like I say, I saw - I was - people went to the barbershop, you know, talking about what happened. And the - over there next - next to my - to my house, because, like I said, it's right there. And I saw the police report. I read it. It wasn't like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The video of the shooting is more than likely going to be a very critical piece of evidence in Officer Michael Slager's murder trial, if it goes to trial. But the Taser that he fired at Walter Scott will also be a very important piece of this puzzle. And this could be the model Taser that was used. It's the X26P from Taser International. To be clear, we are not exactly sure which model was used in this incident, but we do know that Slager was trained on a model slightly older than this one. And the police department has not yet released the exact model that he was using during this altercation.

So with that in mind, I want to bring in our team of experts to talk about the investigation now, especially with regard to these Tasers. Former New York City police officer, and now lawyer, Peter Gleason joins me on the left, former Baltimore Police Officer Peter Maskos, who's with me, and then forensic scientist and DNA expert Larry Koblinsky is with me as well.

So, Dr. Koblinsky, if I can begin with you.

LARRY KOBLINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes.

BANFIELD: Forensically processing this scene, Taser and everything else, what will they be doing to try to assess exactly what happened from a very microscopic and DNA aspect?

KOBLINSKY: Well, there are a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Part of it is the autopsy. We do know that Mr. Scott was hit five times in the back. Whether there was a video or not, that evidence exists. And, quite frankly, using lethal force when your life is not in jeopardy is something that police are supposed to be trained not to do.

BANFIELD: Let's just suggest for a moment, if the officer in this case was suggesting his life was in danger and he suggested to his dispatch that the victim, and he used the words "grabbed by Taser," will there be a significant amount of DNA of the victim on the Taser if, in fact, that happened? KOBLINSKY: Probably not. This is what we call touch DNA. People shed

skin cells all the time. And when they touch an object, they leave their DNA behind. If the - if Mr. Scott actually grabbed for that Taser, I would expect to find some low level amounts of his DNA on the Taser.

BANFIELD: And if there had been a foot chase in fear, there would be sweat, you would think, which helps in touch DNA, doesn't it?

KOBLINSKY: It would. Moisture helps the transfer of cells onto the Taser. Clearly there could be fingerprints as well, so that's part of this.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you this? There is this picture of the Taser - it looks like allegedly the Taser being tossed down beside the either dead or dying Mr. Scott. Is there any possibility for some transfer DNA to get on - and here's the picture I'm referring you to, where you can see something dark being tossed down. I don't know if it hits the body or if it hits the ground beside the body, but it did hit the body.

KOBLINSKY: I think it's very unlikely that there would be a transfer that would take place at that point. DNA is going to be part of this routine procedure. Fingerprints, clearly. The whole crime scene will be looked at. And again, you know, it will all come together whether there's a video or not. The video certainly is the strongest piece of evidence, I agree.

BANFIELD: Peter Gleason, I want to bring you in on this. As a police officer, firefighter, and lawyer, you have a very large basket of knowledge. That picture that we just showed, it was a still picture of whatever was that black object in mid-flight, falling from the hand of the officer. I know this is grainy and I know this is difficult, but it is the best that investigates have. Best of your knowledge, does that look at all like any model of Taser that you've seen in your experience?

PETER GLEASON, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE OFFICER: It - it's not discernible from this picture. However, it is discernible that something was dropped at the scene.

BANFIELD: What possibly could have been dropped? What else would be in the hand of an officer in an instant within minutes of having a fatal shooting and having had some kind of an altercation?

GLEASON: Well -

BANFIELD: What else could be in his hand?

GLEASON: Well, the logical conclusion was it was the Taser. We don't know for sure at this point. So these are questions the investigation is going to have to be thorough and complete because if you rush to judgment in something like this, even though this is a compelling video and everybody who watches it is going to say, this police officer is guilty of murder, let's hear from the other officers at the scene. The other officers at the scene may be able to validate everybody's concern and then we may end up with a plea bargain here.

BANFIELD: Well, you brought up the point, and it's a good one, there are other people who filed reports and who were there at certain junctures.

[12:20:04] When we come back after the break, Peter Moskos, I want you to do something for me. With your experience as a police officer and as a professor at John Jay Criminal Justice, I want you to help walk me through what's going on with these other officers. A, what they did after this incident, and, B, how they themselves are now being investigated since they effectively are witnesses in this case as well. We are back right after the break with that question and more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I want to bring back our team of experts to talk about this issue of Tasers and what the investigation does from here on in. Former New York City Police Officer Peter Gleason, who's also a firefighter and an attorney, former Baltimore Police Officer Peter Moskos, and former forensic - oh, excuse me, forensic scientist, current forensic scientist and DNA expert Larry Koblinsky.

Peter Moskos, to you. The issue I asked before the break, what's happening with those police officers right now? What kind of investigation are they under for what they witnessed, albeit after the fact?

PETER MOSKOS, FORMER BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: When they showed up on the scene and it was after the shooting I believe, the first thing is to render aid to the victim. That's always the first responsibility for a cop. After that is to preserve the crime scene. What - they're going to face an issue is what they wrote in their report. But they weren't there at the - at the time of the shooting. So I - I mean the report's going to be in some ways perfunctory. They secured a crime scene. They rendered aid. And they're just going to describe what happened after the potential crime was committed.

BANFIELD: So the video really becomes the star witness in this case. And, Peter Gleason, I'm going to get you to weigh in on a picture I want to show our audience. You have to really be careful and what with a discerning eye but you're about to see the moment that the victim in this case started to run from the officer. The officer, he has what might be a Taser in his hand, and you can see something black flying off behind him. We do have sort of a shadow box effect so you can see that black piece behind the officer that is moving. Some people thought that's the actual Taser gun. But, Peter Gleason, you can also see in some of the images what looks like Taser wires that still appear to be connected to the hand of the officer. Can you help me figure out what it is I'm seeing?

[12:25:36] GLEASON: Sure. There's a possibility that what you see to the rear of the officer is the second cartridge if this Taser had two shots in it. The first shot you can see is making some connection with the individual running away from the police officer. Now, if that - if that wire or that barb did not make contact with the skin, if it's embroiled in say blue jeans, it's not going to take the suspect down. And in this case, the individual was not taken down.

BANFIELD: Do you have another cartridge you can fire at that point?

GLEASON: You do. You're supposed to pull it out of the butt of this Taser device. And if by some malfunction the second device was kicked out from the butt of the Taser device, then he doesn't have the secondary device.

BANFIELD: Put that picture back up if we can. We're looking at the example Taser right now from Taser International. We're not exactly sure that this was the one that was used, but it is one that's similar to the training device this officer used.

Again, explain to me, if that item in the shadow box behind the officer is in fact a cartridge, then that would explain why you can still see the lines attached to what seemed - what appear to be something in the officer's hand. And what's critical here is, it is not the Taser that is behind the officer if the lines are still attached to something in the officer's hand, correct?

GLEASON: That is - that is correct, yes.

BANFIELD: So, Larry Koblinsky, help me forensically figure out what might have happened next. This shows the black item is behind the officer and the Taser wire is still somewhere around the vicinity of the officer's arms or hands. Yet the officer - when he approached the victim on the ground, he then returned to this exact site and picked something up. Can we be fairly clear that it was not the Taser, at least the black item behind the officer then?

KOBLINSKY: It's quite possible he picked up the cartridge. These devices come with two cartridges. One obviously was fired and he is still holding the Taser in his hand at this point.

BANFIELD: OK.

KOBLINSKY: And the barbs are now attached to Mr. Scott. Again, it didn't take him down.

BANFIELD: Could have been a cartridge?

KOBLINSKY: Could - yes. Yes.

BANFIELD: Can I ask our control room to do me a favor, please? Could we go back to the image that shows something being dropped from the hand of the officer towards the body of Mr. Scott as he's on the ground? And now I'm going to re-ask you, Peter Gleason, if you could look at the item. We could blow it up as big as possible. I know that's a big ask right now, but it was the shape that I said, does that resemble the shape of a Taser. Now I'm going to, instead, ask you if it resembles the shape of perhaps the cartridge that might be what flew out of his hand and flew behind him?

GLEASON: Well, it - again, it's not discernible, but to your point, and to the point of the panel, if - if the wire was attached to Mr. Scott, is it reasonable for the officer to walk with the Taser device, which is still attached to the - the wires are attached to Mr. Scott, as well as attached to this device he has in his hand. Is it logical to walk over there and drop that next to him? I don't know. Did he pick up the cartridge, which I'm assuming this cartridge is probably about the size of an average ink cartridge that we would put into our - into our printer.

BANFIELD: So it's not too far afield that that might have been the shape or size?

GLEASON: It - it could have been. But, again -

BANFIELD: I want to be clear because every detail is going to matter in this case. It will be parsed and it will be an element of a potential cover-up or consciousness of guilt. Either one, whether he dropped a Taser at the body or whether he dropped the cartridge, would lead some to believe that he was trying to make sure it looked like the Tasing happened where he fell and not a very long distance between where those gunshots were fired and that man was - actually fell.

I'm going to have to leave it there for now, but I think we're getting a lot more information. We're still waiting on that dash cam video, which may or may not be somewhat helpful.

Peter Gleason, Peter Moskos, and Larry Koblinsky, excellent analysis and very helpful. Thank you so much to all three of you. I appreciate it.

GLEASON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So the policeman who shot Walter Scott dead is now fired. He has - he has been kicked off the force and he's facing that murder charge. But there is at least one person out there who is forgiving him today. And you're absolutely not going to believe it. But it is the woman who says her heart is broken, that nothing will bring her son back. Hear her very words, next.

[12:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)