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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

New Dash Cam Video In Police Shooting; Talk About Tasers. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 10, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Story is far, far from over.

Thanks so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR today, everybody.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, have a great weekend. But first, watch "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield, which starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to Legal View.

Today we are seeing some brand-new police dash cam footage of those moments that led up to that disturbing South Carolina police shooting, a shooting that ended with a man dead in an open field. Walter Scott now a memory.

In the meantime, we're also learning that the officer involved, Michael Slager, he's been charged with first-degree murder in this case and he has now been separated from the general population in that jail. And that means he's in a cell by himself and is being monitored for his mental health.

As far as the dash cam video is concerned, at first glance, it seems pretty routine, a traffic stop you may have seen before. And that is until Mr. Scott begins to run. The video I'm about to show you, it may give some answers to some questions that are looming over this case but it certainly does not explain the biggest question, why Officer Slager chose to shoot Walter Scott in the back as he was running away. I want to show you the whole scene as it played out in front of Officer Michael Slager's dash-mounted video camera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER MICHAEL SLAGER: Do you have the license and registration for this car (ph)?

WALTER SCOTT (INAUDIBLE).

SLAGER: What's that?

SCOTT: I've got my license but (INAUDIBLE).

SLAGER: OK, let's start with your license. The reason for the stop is your brake light's out.

SCOTT: Oh, OK. (INAUDIBLE). SLAGER: OK.

SCOTT: I don't have it with me. (INAUDIBLE) because my neighbor (INAUDIBLE) -

SLAGER: Uh-huh.

SCOTT: And I was planning on (INAUDIBLE) on Monday but he still hasn't (INAUDIBLE).

SLAGER: So do you have insurance on the car?

SCOTT: No, I don't have insurance on it. He does.

SLAGER: OK. Well, if you don't have insurance on your car and since you bought it, you got to have insurance.

SCOTT: Well, I haven't bought it yet. I'm saying I've got to do that Monday.

SLAGER: You told me you bought it?

SCOTT: He's just letting me drive the car.

SLAGER: Oh, OK.

SCOTT: Yes, because my car is down (INAUDIBLE) this car.

SLAGER: Oh, OK.

SCOTT: So I can call him (INAUDIBLE).

SLAGER: Let me have your driver's license. So you don't have any paperwork in the glove box?

SCOTT: No, sir.

SLAGER: No registration in there? No insurance?

SCOTT: No, he has all that stuff.

SLAGER: Why isn't - OK. But you're buying this car?

SCOTT: Yes, sir.

SLAGER: Did you already buy it?

SCOTT: No, not yet. I'm about to buy it Monday.

SLAGER: Just a minute ago you said that you bought it and you're changing everything over on Monday.

SCOTT: Well, I'm sorry about that. (INAUDIBLE).

SLAGER: Oh, OK. All right. Be right back with you.

You've got to stay in the car.

(INAUDIBLE) heading down (INAUDIBLE). A black male (INAUDIBLE). Taser, Taser, Taser!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: For the very latest on the investigation into this shooting, I want to bring in CNN's Polo Sandoval who's live in North Charleston, South Carolina, right now.

So, Polo, maybe could you get me up to speed. It's been very fast- moving up until now. Is it as fast moving, this investigation? Are there still pieces of breaking information that are changing the dynamic of this story?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, I can tell you that at this point there has been no actual public response from officials here at city hall in North Charleston. But at the same time, it will be extremely crucial now for investigators to try to find out exactly what happened between Walter Scott and, of course, Michael Slager, which is the main question here. What happened during a very crucial point?

We've seen the dash cam video, that brand new dash cam video that you showed at the beginning which was essentially the initial traffic stop. And we've also seen that very disturbing cell phone video that was shown towards the tail end of this struggle between Scott and Slager. But we haven't really seen what happened during those seconds, perhaps up to a minute, between those two different locations.

The main question here is, why did Scott run from Officer Slager? Why was he running away from the officer who would eventually Tase and obviously eventually shoot and kill him? And, of course, here's the other question too that will be very crucial for the officer's defense. At any point did the officer fear for his life? Obviously there are so many different factors coming into play here. We did hear yesterday that Scott - at least there was an outstanding bench warrant there for Scott. So that could potentially have been a reason why he was running.

[12:05:07] But at the same time, answers to those questions will be crucial not only for the investigation, Ashleigh, but also for the defense should this - once this case makes its way into the courtroom to answer that question whether or not the shooting was justified. I can tell you the general feeling among the community here in South Carolina is those eight shots should have never been fired.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, I think you make an excellent point, Polo, and without question, everything that we're looking at, every moment of this incident from the time that stop began is going to be evidence. And it may mitigate the kind of charge that this man is facing. It may mitigate the kind of outcome of a trail, if there is one. And it may mitigate a sentence too. So all of these things, while they don't change the calculous of someone being shot in the back, they may change the circumstance. And that's what's crucial to this story.

So the circumstance the officer is in, Polo, is that he's been moved into an isolation situation in the jail. Can you walk me through what this - what this - basically what his lifestyle is right now? How he's being handled?

SANDOVAL: Right. And at this point, Ashleigh, it's still unclear if he's been isolated from the very beginning, from - since he was actually taken into custody and charged with murder. But I can tell you that this is a step that local authorities here are taking. Obviously, for his safety.

And this is something that we've seen before in previous, non-related cases in which law enforcement find themselves really on the other side of the aisle here, at least behind bars. Obviously, a police officer in custody, that would be an extremely risky situation for the suspect in this case or the defendant in this case, for former Officer Slager. So that's being done as a precaution.

But at the same time, authorities are stopping short of saying that he would - that he's actually on any sort of suicide watch. The sheriff here, the local sheriff, did actually say that that would be a concern in a case such as this. But at the same time, he is still within contact of law enforcement and obviously his family members as well.

BANFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval live for us, thank you for that.

We are also getting other information from an eyewitness. And this is another eyewitness to the shooting. And this is coming for the first time. In fact, before even police have heard from her. Gwen Nichols has told CNN in an exclusive interview that she saw Walter Scott and Officer Michael Slager shortly after Mr. Scott was pulled over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GWEN NICHOLS, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: When I came to the corner of the Advanced Auto parking lot and saw them, it was a tussle. And then - like before what you saw on the videotape, there was like a little tussle over there. Like on - at the - at the end of that gate down there.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Were they on the ground rolling? What were they doing?

NICHOLS: No, it wasn't on the ground rolling. It was like a - like a - like a tussle type of thing. Like, you know, like what do you want or what did I do type of thing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: There is someone else as well, I'm sure you've heard of him by now, Feidin Santana is his name. He is the witness who recorded that now infamous video of the shooting. He met with Walter Scott's family last night. And this is what it looked like. As you can see, terribly emotional. They were greeted. There were hugs. The family showing him their appreciation for being brave enough to show that video, take that video and show that video. Last night on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," Santana described the struggle that he saw between the officer and Mr. Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEIDIN SANTANA, RECORDED VIDEO OF SHOOTING: I saw right after they were - the (INAUDIBLE). And they went in - inside I would say a parking lot. That it was very empty. That's right. That's when I started witnessing everything.

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "ANDERSON COOPER 360": What did you - what was the first thing you saw happen between them?

SANTANA: I went to the scene and Mr. Scott was already on the ground. The cop was on top of him and he was just Tasing him, Tasing Mr. Scott. And -

COOPER: You could actually hear the Taser?

SANTANA: After that, Mr. Scott just trying to run - yes, yes, I - I hear the Taser. Like I say, I can hear the sound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Feidin Santana also told Anderson that he did not see Mr. Scott grab for that Taser.

I want to bring back in our law enforcement experts to break down the dash cam video and the new information that it brings to this story. Joining me is former New York Police Officer Peter Gleason, who is now an attorney, and law enforcement expert Dennis Root, who has trained officers on how to properly use deadly force.

Gentlemen, you're both perfect for this issue that's deploying today. I want to show that video again right at the moment where the dash cam is recording, the audio is out of view, but you can hear three distinct calls, what seems to be for a Taser. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:10:29] OFFICER MICHAEL SLAGER: Taser, Taser, Taser!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK, I'm not sure if you either could make out - I think we were sort of putting those - those two pieces of sound - it's a very long encounter, obviously, it takes several minutes. But could either of you make out that there was the word seemingly "Taser, Taser, Taser" was called out in that quick of a sequence?

I'll begin with you, Dennis. Is that standard operating procedure for an officer to call it out if he's about to deploy the Taser?

DENNIS ROOT, LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERT: Absolutely. It's one of the fundamental elements of the training programs for the Tasers is, because of the similarities in look of the Taser compared to a firearm, the announcement "Taser, Taser, Taser" lets anyone else in the area, especially if it's a law enforcement officer know that it's not a firearm being pointed at them, that it's a Taser. And then if they hear the pop, they know that's the pop of the Taser going off, not a firearm being discharged.

BANFIELD: And there's no call that you know of in any kind of training that should be made if a suspect grabs at your Taser or at your weapon?

ROOT: Well, if you were in the presence of other law enforcement professionals, you would want to - you would want to announce them attempting to get your weapon or taking your weapon from you every single time. But if you're alone, that's probably not a thought that would cross anybody's mind. And if this officer felt that he was alone with the individual, then the touching of the weapon, that wouldn't necessarily be announced at that point.

BANFIELD: OK. And we should make very clear that it was only within a few moment that is he actually keyed his microphone, which was affixed to his shoulder, and radioed in to dispatch that he - he had said my - my - the suspect had grabbed at my Taser. That's the word he used. Later in a police report, he wrote "took," that the suspect "took" his Taser. Those are two different things.

But, Peter Gleason, if you could weigh in on this. When we look at that tape and when we play it in full, is there anything about the police officer's demeanor and his temperament that looks unusual to you, that looks dismissive to you, that might give us some insight as to the state of mind of the officer as the stop began?

PETER GLEASON, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER: By all accounts it's routine. He pulls the driver over. Obviously he flips his lights on. You could see the lights, the turrent (ph) lights, of the RMP, or the police vehicle in the shadow on the back of the Mercedes-Benzes. And the individual pulls into a parking lot. By all accounts, it's a by- the-book standard operating procedure pulling-over of a vehicle.

BANFIELD: Dennis, could you weigh in on the fact that when the - when Mr. Scott exits the vehicle and runs, we can't see the officer running as well, but we can certainly hear the microphone and the sound of wind, the sound of heavy breath and the sound of movement. At what point would an officer in training be told he is to have his hand on either his weapon or his Taser? I'm just trying to get a feel for when Officer Slager may have had that Taser in his hand.

ROOT: You know I - not being completely familiar with South Carolina's laws. I know in the state of Florida, the application of a Taser is only justified when you encounter what they call active resistance. The body's in motion or muscles are under tension. So the moment that Mr. Walker took off running and the officer pursued, he, at least in the state of Florida, would be justified in the application of the Taser to take him into custody. So it would not be, you know, outside the realm of reason for him to be pursuing him on foot, draw out the Taser and actually deploy it while running and chasing after him. BANFIELD: And we have a lot of evidence so far from witnesses who say

they heard the Taser, they heard this sound. We've seen the video of those Taser wires clearly evident and they look as though they are affixed to something in the hands of the officer and they certainly look like they're going in the direction of Mr. Scott as he's running.

But I want to ask you, if at the very initial outset of what appeared on this video to be the last part of a struggle between the two of them, at least they were connected somewhere around the hands. If the suspect had actually gone for the Taser, would the officer be told, you should deploy that Taser? Or does it become more dangerous to him at that point because it is in such close proximity?

[12:15:04] ROOT: If you've got the weapon pointed at the individual, deploy it. You're justified in doing so. If he's trying to grab it -

BANFIELD: Even if he's touching you?

ROOT: Even if he's touching you because electricity is lazy, it only flows between the two probes. So once the probes are inside the person of Mr. Walker (ph), you can touch him. As long as you're not between the probes or touching directly on the probes, there's no energy that's going to be transferred to you.

BANFIELD: And just lastly and very quickly, Peter Gleason, pulling someone over for a taillight. There's been a lot of criticism about this. But it is just fishing and often times fishing in a particular community that you're targeting. Many say those in the black community feel that that's an excuse to pull. But the Supreme Court in that state actually said, this is a serious thing. I mean it needs to be dealt with. And taillights aren't that out of the ordinary, are they?

GLEASON: Well, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that even if the officer is mistaken as to the actual law, as long as that officer is pulling the individual over as a - in a good-faith basis, the stop is good.

BANFIELD: All right, Peter Gleason, thank you.

GLEASON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Dennis Root, thank you as well.

ROOT: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Very helpful as we try to parse out what happened before, during and after this incident. Before the gun came out in the shooting death of Walter Scott, we see and we hear police saying "Taser." The officer says, "Taser." It's a device that is on the hip of more and more police officers these days. So why wasn't it enough to take care of this situation? We've got a person coming up from the company that makes this device. He's going to show us this nonlethal weapon top to bottom and he'll answer a couple of questions that many people have. Fuzzy video, it sure looks like a Taser, but was it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [12:20:02] BANFIELD: The Taser that Michael Slager used in his tussle with Walter Scott just may end up being a huge piece of evidence in Slager's murder case. Forensics may prove whether Walter Scott did grab at that Taser moments before being shot to death. That's what the officer said happened.

This may be the model Taser that Slager used. It's an X-26 Taser. To be clear, the police are not revealing exactly which model Mr. Slager used, but he was trained on this one, on the X-26. The police department will not tell CNN which model is on the hips right now of the officers and if that in fact was the officer's actual model in this incident.

Joining me now live from Phoenix is the vice president of strategic communication for Taser International, and that is Steve Tuttle.

Steve, I'm so glad that you have the opportunity to join us today. I've had to many questions. Very first and foremost, I know you've got some examples in the studio with you and so I want to just sort of let you take a moment to show me sort of pre-deployment and post- deployment what the Taser actually looks like. So go ahead and sort of walk me through it.

STEVE TUTTLE, VP OF TASER: Sure. This is the X-26 right here. And this is a model that has a spare cartridge at the bottom. It's called an XDPM (ph). So you have a spare.

Now, if I were to deploy this device, I would take the safety and put it in the up position. If the safety is off, it turns on a laser sight, and I can aim this here, and you'll see it turn a light on. If I depress the trigger, it will depress and shoot out two probes up to 25 feet away. When you do that, the cartridge will be expended and that cartridge - and this is a sample of one right here of an expended cartridge. And two of these probes come out. We need two to make connection. One's a positive, one's a negative. And to complete a circuit, they both have to be in contact very close to the skin or at least buried into the skin. Now, that's easily done with these probes here.

Now, when it's deployed, it also breaks apart little blast doors, you'll see these green doors. You'll also see -

BANFIELD: Are they always green?

TUTTLE: They're not always green. It depends on the type of cartridge used. And that's the most popular model. The green indicates it's a 25-footer.

BANFIELD: OK.

TUTTLE: Now when it's also deployed, it has a piece of confetti. I don't know if you can see it up close here. That confetti is called an anti-felony identification tag. It has a serial number that will match back unique to this particular cartridge. So we would see about 12 to 18 of these all over the ground, yellow and pink, that would match back to that particular cartridge. It's unique to that. So these are some of the things that would be there on the scene.

BANFIELD: That - that confetti would end up where the - that confetti that you just said, those pieces will end up at the site where the Taser was shot?

TUTTLE: Correct. They are found within the bores (ph). They're right behind the probes where they sit here in the weapon. The compressed gas, about 1200 PSI, pushes those out and they spread all out in this wide pattern. And they will match back to a cartridge number that you won't be able to see here. It's laser etched in here. And it will match back to this particular cartridge.

BANFIELD: Can you hold that up so I can see the size of it. just hold it up right - right -

TUTTLE: It's very small.

BANFIELD: Yes, it is. Yes. OK. Well -

TUTTLE: Very small. And again, when it's deployed, you want to have good contact with these particular wires. Now, these will go up to 25 feet away and it's designed to come out straight where the laser sight is. And the bottom probe from this device goes down an eight degree downward angle. We do that to create spread between the positive and the negative. And that will then affect larger groups of muscles and get more nervous tissue.

BANFIELD: OK. I want to do something, if I can. I want to show you a piece of video and I want you to look very closely at what appears to be something black that is being tossed or dropped down beside Mr. Scott by the officer. It is so hard to make out. But we've highlighted it and we've trying to, you know, enhance the video as best possible so that you can get at least a slight view of the shape of it. But to the naked eye and to your trained naked eye, does that at all resemble what could be the X-26 or anything similar? There's the better view of it right now sort of highlighted and zoomed-in, so to speak.

TUTTLE: You know, that's a tough call. It's just not the greatest picture in the world, unfortunately. It could certainly be one. I just couldn't say definitively that's a Taser X-26.

BANFIELD: So one thing I wanted to ask, if it's hard to make out that it is or isn't the Taser, is it hard to tell me that it is absolutely not the cartridge because you showed me a pretty small piece.

TUTTLE: It looks sizable. It certainly looked a little bit bigger than the cartridge here. This, again, this is the size of the cartridge here.

BANFIELD: Yes.

TUTTLE: And I'll put it in my hand to give you a little better reference point here. It's pretty small.

BANFIELD: But do officers - do officers -

TUTTLE: So the other device, I just don't know what that was.

[12:24:59] BANFIELD: My apologies because I think we have a slight delay. But do the officers in training on your devices, do they know that that confetti goes out and many pieces of it go out into the location where it's deployed? So - and I ask that because if that officer knew that, it wouldn't matter if you place the Taser beside the person's body. The forensics will prove the Tasing happened many dozens of feet back.

TUTTLE: That's a very good point to bring up because no matter what, every single person that's been trained on this device has had to fire one of these multiple times. And it looks like a mess at the range because it's full of all this wire. And at that wire, you're going to have all these little green blast doors all over the place, but you also see the confetti. And that confetti is part of al the user training, it's part of all the instructor training. So, yes, you would know that's there.

And we put that there specifically for criminal use by civilians, if they want to use that. That's where the original concept came from.

BANFIELD: Wow.

TUTTLE: So from day one, it's been in there for the past 20 years.

BANFIELD: I'm so glad that you have worked this out for us. I think forensically there will - there will be a lot that comes into this case. I don't know that it will change the metric of the video that we saw of a man being shot in the back as he ran away. But it may mitigate the kinds of charges that he's facing, the kind of charges that he may be found guilty or not guilty of. And certainly if there's any sentencing, it may change that as well. And I know that you've been Tased as well, so you know a lot of what you speak.

Steve Tuttle, thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.

TUTTLE: Thank you. Glad to be here.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, a killer storm, a series of them in fact, that tore up towns in the Midwest last night. The destruction is absolute. Here is west of Chicago. What a mess. What a disaster. These were neighborhoods and homes. Scattered places across Iowa and Missouri. We're going to take you to one of the places hardest hit and do a check-in.

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