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U.S. and Cuba from Foes to Friends; Panama's President, Host to History; Breaking the Old Boys Network. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 13, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Tonight: a tectonic shift (INAUDIBLE) nearly 60 years (INAUDIBLE) Cuba sit down together at a regional summit.

My exclusive international interview with the host, the president of Panama.

Also ahead, will it be second time lucky for a President Hillary Clinton? On a mission to smash the highest and the hardest (INAUDIBLE)

champion of women's rights here in the U.K. The American born (INAUDIBLE) judge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LADY BARBARA JUDGE, INSTITUTE OF DIRECTORS: If we make companies put women on boards, even for a short period of time, think of all those women

who will be demonstrably qualified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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AMANPOUR: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour.

Apparently 'tis the season to declare your bid for the American presidency, that is. First-term senator Marco Rubio tonight says that he's

throwing his hat in the ring. But it possibly won't generate as many worldwide headlines as Hillary Clinton's announcement yesterday.

But Rubio's timing is interesting. He's a Republican from Florida. He's the son of Cuba immigrants and he's an (INAUDIBLE) place to restore

ties with Cuba. That took a historic step forward this weekend with the first formal talks between Cuba and the U.S. in more than half a century.

Presidents Barack Obama and Raul Castro met face-to-face at the Summit of the Americas in Panama with both men signaling that they want to

move on from the past and look to the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Cold War's been over for a long time. And I'm not interested in having battles that have

(INAUDIBLE) started before I was born.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(AUDIO GAP)

AMANPOUR: Now the hated embargo still hasn't been lifted off Havana. But Castro does hope that soon Cuba will take -- be taken off the U.S. list

of state sponsors of terrorism.

Jorge Ramos is one of the most influential and well-known Latino broadcasters in the world. He's the (INAUDIBLE) on the Fusion network and

for some perspective, he joins me now from Miami.

Welcome back to the program, Jorge.

JORGE RAMOS, FUSION: Thanks so much, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: So what first about what it signals, this rapprochement, between Presidents Obama and Castro, the fact that they're shaking hands,

sitting down, actually talking?

RAMOS: I really find it fascinating that President Barack Obama was not even born when the Castro brothers overthrew the Batista regime in 1959

and President Barack Obama is (INAUDIBLE) a very American idea, very noble idea that if something doesn't work for 50 years, (INAUDIBLE) got to try

something different. (INAUDIBLE) Barack Obama is doing something that 10 presidents didn't want to do and that is putting ideology to the side and

trying something different.

Of course, Cuba is a dictatorship. They don't have freedom of the press. They have political prisoners. They don't have political parties.

However, President Barack Obama is trying something completely different and maybe -- just maybe; we don't know -- maybe it will work and

turn out something completely different.

AMANPOUR: Now listen, you say that and you also mention the differences they still have. But I was actually struck by some of what

Raul Castro, President Castro said to the gathered assembly about President Obama -- we're going to play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAUL CASTRO, PRESIDENT OF CUBA (through translator); So it is fair that I apologize to President Obama and I have told these who sever his

stated (ph) government that I see around this table now and have told him that, in my opinion, President Obama is an honest man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So Jorge, I don't know whether you were struck, but there is Raul Castro, apologizing also for inheriting this hostile relationship.

What was going on there? Read the psychology a little, if you will.

RAMOS: Well, it is -- I was also surprised and it seems that Raul Castro was willing to try also something different. That kind of language

I've never heard from either Fidel Castro or from Raul Castro. And what he was saying is that in other presidents just didn't want (INAUDIBLE) and

here you are, President Barack Obama, (INAUDIBLE) and how is he going to help us?

As you just mentioned, President Barack Obama can't lift the embargo. He needs a Congress to do that. However, he can take Cuba off the list of

state sponsors of terrorism. That's one thing.

(INAUDIBLE) simply the fact that President Barack Obama wants to open embassies and simply the fact that President Barack Obama is opening

(INAUDIBLE) at this point it's already having an effect. (INAUDIBLE) the opportunity to see on "The New York Times" just very recently an ad on

(INAUDIBLE) saying that (INAUDIBLE) there are at least 1,000 Cuban families willing to accept American tourists.

So something is already (INAUDIBLE) and (INAUDIBLE) Castro is already noticing that and that's precisely why he (INAUDIBLE) President Obama.

AMANPOUR: That is a change for the moment because Airbnb, of course, this famous house exchange -- I mean, it's coming from Cuba that's amazing.

How about this, that's (INAUDIBLE) Obama's approval ratings amongst Cubans are even higher than Raul Castro's: 80 percent of Cubans approve of

President Barack Obama; 47 percent of Raul Castro and 44 percent of Fidel Castro.

What did you glean from that?

RAMOS: Well, that it is a dictatorship. And that President Barack Obama could at least win an election in Cuba, although they don't have

(INAUDIBLE). By the way, it's also (INAUDIBLE) popular as Raul and Fidel. Now President Barack Obama continuously mentioned in the way he refers to

Raul and Fidel, they call Raul president. That's something that you would never hear from his -- instance from Cuban American members of Congress

here in the United States.

So President Obama is trying something different. I think he understood that the policy that the U.S. was following for almost half a

century wasn't working. And instead of isolating Cuba, it was isolating the United States. And of course nothing really has changed right now in

Cuba. So we have to see what happens. There's still political representation. Cuba is still a dictatorship. Raul Castro is not a

president (INAUDIBLE) dictator and just have to see in the next months or in the next (INAUDIBLE) that dictatorship is going to open up and really

change. And that's what we're all expecting.

AMANPOUR: Well, you know, you say that and you sound very much like then President Obama's domestic opponents, for instance, Marco Rubio, and

Ted Cruz and the others who have declared.

Marco Rubio famously does not approve of this rapprochement.

What does that mean, do you think, for his big for the presidency?

And how significant is it that, as a Latino, he has jumped into this race?

RAMOS: Well, first let me put it in perspective. Today, Latinos (INAUDIBLE) in the United States are making history because for the first

time two Latinos, not one but two Latinos, Senator Marco Rubio and Senator Ted Cruz just a few days ago decided to run for the White House.

That's the new normal here in the United States and that means that the Latino power is growing, with 55 million Latinos in this country,

there's something to be said about that.

And also that in 2016, no one is going to be able to make it to the White House without their Hispanic vote; 60 million Latinos will go to the

polls and maybe -- who knows -- maybe for the first time we'll have a Hispanic president.

Now it is very clear that if either Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio would make it to the White House, they would change completely the policy that right

now President Barack Obama is following with Cuba. I doubt it, that Marco Rubio, the son of Cuban American immigrants, or that Ted Cruz, whose father

is a Cuban refugee, would even dare to call Raul Castro president and they would never, ever shake Raul or Fidel Castro's hand.

So that's why this is very important. President Barack Obama is not a lame duck president. He's trying to do something different. But if

(INAUDIBLE) a Republican wins the White House, if Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz win the White House, then these new (INAUDIBLE) of getting (INAUDIBLE)

definitely change.

AMANPOUR: So you say that they would be totally opposed and would probably change this policy. But let's face it, nearly 60 percent of

Americans approve of this rapprochement with Cuba. That is what the latest poll says.

But if -- now that we have this Cuba-U.S. situation, we have these Latino candidates now, running for the Republican nomination, you have been

at the forefront and the cutting edge of the most important Latino issues in the United States, especially immigration.

So does this entry now into the race, does it shift immigration reform? I mean, isn't it the Republicans who've been sort of holding out

on immigration reform?

RAMOS: It is. It is a problem and we just have to say that the way it is Republicans are blocking immigration reform right now here

(INAUDIBLE). And Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Marco Rubio at this point, they do not favor, right now, a path to citizenship for the (INAUDIBLE)

undocumented immigrants in this country. So if Republicans win the White House, it is very unlikely, I think, that we will have immigration reform

soon in this country.

Also another thing that I wanted to point out, it's ironic that we have two Cuban Americans running for the White House when the majority of

Latinos tend to vote for the Democratic Party and when also (INAUDIBLE) Latinos in this country are Mexican Americans. So obviously in this case,

the Republican Party is doing something right with two Latinos running for the White House.

AMANPOUR: And Hillary Clinton was very quick yesterday during her announcement. She also tweeted in Spanish, basically saying, "I am running

for president. All Americans need a defender. I want to be that (INAUDIBLE)."

Let's take out of the equation the fact that she's a woman and let's talk about defending Hispanic Latino rights.

What would your community expect from a Democratic president or a President Hillary Clinton?

RAMOS: What they would expect is immigration reform. I know that not -- that's not the most important issue for most Latinos --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: But, Jorge, even -- Jorge, even President Obama hasn't done it. So nor has a Democratic president.

RAMOS: And that's -- I think that's the new strength, the new power of the Hispanic community, that President Barack Obama promised something

and he didn't deliver. But anyone who's going to be running for the White House will have to face the fact that the majority of Latino voters

(INAUDIBLE) they want immigration reform either Democrat or Republican. Now I also have to remember that when Hillary Clinton was running for the

White House in 2008, she had more Hispanic support than President Barack Obama and also she was proposing something completely different than

(INAUDIBLE). She promised -- she promised that during the first 100 days of her presidency she was going to propose immigration reform in that sense

I think she was right and President Barack Obama was wrong. And yes, it is (INAUDIBLE) symbolically it is the one closer to our hearts.

AMANPOUR: I want to move back quickly again to the Summit of the Americas. Of course the spotlight was on Presidents Obama and Castro but

also there is a big crisis with Venezuela as there often is and the Venezuelan president, Nicolas Maduro, was very upset about sanctions and

apparently he declared very, very loudly that, "I respect you but I don't trust you, President Obama."

Apparently he had a profanity-laden speech.

What is this rapprochement between Obama and Castro going to do to the types like Maduro, Chavez before him, Morales and all the others in Latin

America, who use that as an excuse to blame everything on Obama, on the United States?

RAMOS: I think this is the first Summit of the Americas which I don't hear all the presidents -- some of them, but not all the presidents --

criticize the U.S. interventionist policies of the past. For the first time. And I think the (INAUDIBLE) is shifting from Cuba and the U.S., from

-- to Venezuela and the U.S. Clearly Cuba is not a threat to the national security of the United States. And I think President Barack Obama and many

others disagree with that. President Obama made a mistake a few weeks ago when he declared that Venezuela was a threat to the national security of

this country because just a few days later, they changed that policy. They flip-flopped. And now they say, no, it is not true; Venezuela is not a

threat to the national security of this country.

Clearly Venezuela is an authoritarian regime. They have political prisoners. They have Leopoldo Lopez, who is in jail right now. He was the

mayor of Chacau (ph), one of the most important (INAUDIBLE) capital of Venezuela.

So (INAUDIBLE) the tension is shifting (INAUDIBLE) from Cuba to Venezuela right now. Venezuela's, I think, President Barack Obama made a

mistake because he gave President Nicolas Maduro an excuse to continue the repression against the opposition in this country by saying that Venezuela

was a threat. And it is not.

AMANPOUR: All right. Jorge Ramos, thank you so much for that perspective.

And (INAUDIBLE) -- thank you, Jorge.

We're going to take a small break now. When we come back, we hope to join the president of Panama, who hosted this weekend's Summit of the

Americas and we will talk to him about the shifts in the region.

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

And we've been discussing these historic shifts really between Cuba and the United States and what it means for the Americas. And now we turn

to our exclusive interview with the president, Juan Carlos Varela, who joins us from Panama City.

Welcome to the program, Mr. President.

JUAN CARLOS VARELA, PRESIDENT OF PANAMA: Thank you, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Let me ask you how historic is it? You have been there for a long, long time and you've seen all these comings and goings. It's the

first time Cuba has been invited.

What did it mean to you?

VARELA: This was the perfect moment (INAUDIBLE). Our country has 500-year tradition of uniting people, being a country of peace, of

(INAUDIBLE). So before winning the election, I made my position clear that I was going to invite Cuba to a Summit of the Americas. Once I won the

election, I did it and it was accepted by all countries. And we have a successful meeting that is going to contribute to the peace in our

continent and also to bring balance to the rest of the world.

AMANPOUR: But what was it like for you to see these two men, shaking hands, this more than half a century of hostility, this hostility which has

infected U.S. relations, really all over your continent?

What was it like for you and what was the atmosphere like between them?

VARELA: It was closing an era of conflict, closing the gap and starting to prepare for the future to work together to solve the problems

that affect our people leaving aside the political problems or ideologies that (INAUDIBLE) between different leaders and focus all the effort on the

problems that affect our citizens in the Americas and worldwide. It was a great moment since (INAUDIBLE) the valleys (ph). I saw the valleys (ph) in

the region. And this was closing a very sad era of our continent and opening a new era. This is going to bring a lot of peace to the continent

and universal peace to all the countries worldwide. So I was very happy. It was a very special moment. President Obama was very humble and

President Castro was very open. They opened -- both of them opened their hearts (ph). This is for the people of Cuba and the people of the United

States, go (INAUDIBLE) when people stay there, (INAUDIBLE) responsibility to bring their countries together and they did it.

And they're -- both of them are going to leave the legacy of peace for the Americas.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me play you a little bit about what President Obama did say while he was in Panama City about perhaps the effect it might

have on the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: And I think if we can build on this spirit of mutual respect and candidness that, over time, we will see not just a transformation in

the relationship between our two countries, but a positive impact throughout the hemisphere and he world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Mr. President, do you believe, as President Obama just said, that this will have a bigger impact in your region, not just between

Cuba and the United States, but let's face it, many Latin leaders have used this summit really to blame everything on the United States and Panama

itself has had a rocky relationship with the United States.

VARELA: Panama is a regional partner for the United States. So our country was a place where the President Obama came and he was the space to

be able to have a very honest and open dialogue with other leaders of the Americas to try to bring together efforts to (INAUDIBLE) democracy, the

freedom of speech, the defend human rights and also to get the support of many Latin American leaders for different efforts to support Central

America, immigration issues and (INAUDIBLE).

So this is -- what he did in Panama is going to allow him to have a continent at peace and also get the support of many Latin American leaders

for the effort that he's doing in all areas of the world, to bring stability and peace to everybody. So I think it was a very successful

summit. And it's going to be remembered as a summit that brought a lot of peace for more than 900 million Americans.

AMANPOUR: Well, amazing days indeed, President Juan Carlos Varela of Panama, thank you so much for joining me tonight.

VARELA: Thank you, Christiane. It was a very special moment for our country and I hope you can come and visit us to Panama so you can share

with the rest of the world this peaceful continent with the lovely people that is ready to serve everybody else here.

AMANPOUR: Well, it would be a pleasure. Thank you, Mr. President.

So as you heard, the Americas in the balance.

After a break, one woman trying to change the balance of power in the board room -- Lady Barbara Judge on a career that defies convention --

after this.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program.

President Hillary Clinton would certainly be a first but she's not the only one making waves. With less than a month until the U.K. elections,

this country was treated to the sight of a row of female party leaders during the first TV debate. And Britain's business secretary says there

must be at least 25 percent of women sitting on corporate boards by the end of this year.

My next guest knows all too well what it's like to be a woman around a table of suits.

Lady Barbara Judge is the first female chairman of the U.K. influential Institute of Directors. And I sat down with her recently to

discuss kicking the ball in the right direction, as she puts it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Lady Barbara Judge, welcome to the program. Good to see you.

How extraordinary is it for you to be in the lobby of the Institute of Directors?

JUDGE: It's a fabulous experience. I am totally thrilled.

AMANPOUR: But it is a gentleman's club. I mean, let's face it, there are only something like 5,000 women in 34,000 members.

JUDGE: But you know what, my aim is to change that. My aim is to make it truly a club for all directors, have more women directors and for

women to feel at home.

AMANPOUR: How will you do that? There is such an ingrained culture. And let's face it, many people have tried to kickstart women into precisely

what you're talking about.

How will you effect this change?

JUDGE: Well, I don't think it'll be me. But I hope to have a part. I think it really starts very young. You have to teach women, society has

to teach women, when they're in school, in grade school, that they can make it to the top. They have to have role models. They have to have sponsors

and they have to have mentors. And there's a difference between sponsors and mentors. Mentors talk to you and sponsors talk about you.

The other thing is we've got to get teachers with the program. Today, if you get a smart girl, smart girl who's good at math and science, they

send her off to be a doctor. Now that's better than being a nurse, which when I was young, was (INAUDIBLE). But they should send her off to be an

engineer because we have a lot of women doctors. What we need is a lot of women engineers. But we've got to show the teachers that that's a good

career.

Well, let's then take that down to its basics and strip away things that we don't really like to talk about and that is affirmative action or

quotas. In fact, you have said you've got to kick the ball in order for it to go in the right direction.

JUDGE: I totally believe that. In theory, I'm not in favor of quotas. But in fact, I like what happens. If you wait forever for people

to do what the right thing is, a few will. But not enough. But if you make them do it, they have to do it.

Now I don't think the quotas have to last forever. You could have sunset legislation. You could put them in for a period of time. The main

reason that they say they don't have women on boards is there aren't enough qualified ones. I keep hearing that. There aren't enough qualified women.

Well, if we make companies put women on boards even for a short period of time, think of all those women who will be demonstrably qualified. And

nobody will be able to say we don't have them anymore.

AMANPOUR: And with the magic number we keep hearing is 30 percent, why is 30 percent a magic number, a tipping point number?

JUDGE: Well, I think I have a lot of experience as you know on boards. And usually, I know it was just me. There was just me; nobody

else. My mission in life in those days was to get the second woman on the board. And almost every board I sat on I managed it. But the theory is

one is an oddity; two is OK. But when it's three, it's not an oddity anymore. Then you're not a woman; then you're just people. And once

you're just people, the dynamic changes.

AMANPOUR: Let's face it, you could be very successful in business. You can be a woman at the top of very many pyramids. But people say that

unless women are elected and are in politics from the grassroots up to the top, you know, a lot of legislation won't happen.

JUDGE: Well, I'm not a politician. So I don't really get into that. But I do think targets are important in general. I think you have to raise

the issue.

For so long we just sort of hoped it would happen; we'd put one person here and one person there. We think they did real -- I thought all you

have to do is work hard and you'd go up the ladder. But it doesn't happen. People need role models. Women need to think they can do it. And if you

don't see somebody in the government or you don't see somebody who's a CEO or you don't see somebody that's a powerful person, when you're young you

think I can't bother.

AMANPOUR: You wanted to be an actress and your mother who was a role model for you, said no.

JUDGE: My mother was the smartest person I have ever met in my entire life. And she was teaching women to work in the '50s. She taught women to

work not because they were alone, not because they were poor but because they had a brain and they should use it and that they should have their own

money, because money was independence.

So when I came home and said I want to be an actress, my mother said we are not having any starving actresses in this family, Barbara.

If you want to act, you can act in front of the jury. Go be a lawyer.

AMANPOUR: And that's what you did.

JUDGE: When I listened to my mother, I got it right.

AMANPOUR: How were you brought up?

JUDGE: Well, if it hadn't been for my mother, it would have been different. You know, in fact, I was brought up -- the milieu I was brought

up -- well, you know, "Mad Men"? You know "Mad Men"? The milieu that I was brought up was to become that blonde woman in "Mad Men," you know the

one that goes to a good college, gets married to a nice guy, lives in Connecticut, has two children and slowly goes mad.

And that could have been me if my mother hadn't told me there was another way.

AMANPOUR: Beautiful notes to end on, Lady Barbara Judge, thank you very much indeed.

JUDGE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Historic times indeed.

And that is it for our program tonight. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.

END