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Officer Slager Audio; Two Enter White House Race; Death at Disney World. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 13, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: But he hasn't used that word genocide out of an apparent deference for Turkey, a NATO ally.

That's it for me. The news continues next on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Wolf, thank you so much.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you for starting your week with us here.

I want to begin with two pieces of brand new audio recorded in the immediate aftermath of that deadly police shooting down in South Carolina. Just a heads up, it's tough to hear, it's tough to make out, but I want you to listen here to Officer Michael Slager speaking with another officer moments after firing those eight bullets at Walter Scott, an unarmed 50-year-old African-American man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Once they get here, it'll be real quick. They're gonna tell you, you're gonna be off for a couple days and we'll come back and interview you then. They're not gonna ask you any type of questions right now.

OFFICER SLAGER: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: They're gonna take your weapon. We'll go from there. That's pretty much it. The last time we had to wait a couple days to interview - the official interview to sit down and tell what happened. By the time you get home, it'd probably be a good idea to jot down your thoughts about whatever happened once the adrenaline stops pumping.

OFFICER SLAGER: It's pumping.

UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We then hear a separate piece of audio. This is captured by the patrol car's dash cam of Officer Slager on a phone call to someone we believe to be his wife. Take a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OFFICER SLAGER: Hey. Hey, everything's OK. OK? I just shot somebody. Yes, everything's OK. He grabbed my Taser. Yeah. Yeah. He was running from me. I'm fine. (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: First, let me go to my colleague, our correspondent there in North Charleston, Nick Valencia.

And, first, we just played those two pieces of audiotape. How - what's the reaction where you are to that?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I reached out to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Department. They, of course, are the lead agency on this, Brooke, in charge of the investigation. And I asked them if they had heard the audio. They said yes. Tom Berry, the spokesperson there, I asked him, how would you characterize that audio? And he responded saying that this is information that was discussed at the scene.

Meanwhile, the community reaction, more renewed calls to prosecute that second officer seen in the video. Officer Clarence Habersham. They - critics argue that he didn't do enough to help Walter Scott and that he may have also been complicit in a so-called cover-up because of discrepancies in his police reports that seemed to mirror the version of the events that Officer Slager said happened.

Right now, though, no formal charges being leveled against anyone else other than Officer Slager. We have reached out to Clarence Habersham to get his comments on this pressure that he's facing. We have not yet heard back. Also, North Charleston Police department unable to tell us so far if he's still on active duty or he's still on the streets.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, keep us posted on that, Nick. Thank you very much.

Let me just broaden this out with someone who was in law enforcement for years and years, David Katz, former senior special agent for the DEA and firearms and homeland security expert.

And I know you brought a prop and we're going to get to that in just a minute on a totally unrelated story. But my first question to you, just listening to that first piece of audio, when you hear this other officer saying, listen, go home, jot down your thoughts, you'll probably be questioned in a couple days, I'm not in law enforcement but my immediate reaction would be, wouldn't you be questioned that afternoon?

DAVID KATZ, CEO, GLOBAL SECURITY GROUP: Yes, that is - that is actually standard procedure. My old job, it was the same thing, you give the officer enough time to compose himself or herself.

BALDWIN: Time as in hours? Time as in days?

KATZ: Time - should be hours, not days.

BALDWIN: OK.

KATZ: There will be an - there will be an investigation, you know, but the idea is to give the - give the officer the same constitutional protections as any other defendant in this case. You know, it's an officer involved. There will be someone else that I'm sure every defense attorney would say, that's the proper thing to do.

BALDWIN: Also wondering just your gut when you heard the first piece of audio, you know, obviously he has shot and killed this man and I don't know what kind of adrenaline is running through him, but to hear this laughter, it's almost like this nervous laughter with this officer.

KATZ: Right. Yes.

BALDWIN: How do you read that?

KATZ: Yes, he's just - there's a point in time where your cognitive abilities are gone and you just are saying whatever comes into your mind. You don't really know what's happening. It seems surreal. And that's what I think is happening to this guy. And I'm pretty sure that after he discharged his weapon, his first thought was, oh, my God, what have I just done? That's the way it seemed. And then, you know, after reality sets in. Now he's going to start to settle back down and try to - try to make sense of what happened.

BALDWIN: OK. Let's talk about this other officer-involved shooting. Let me tell you about this. This is another officer-involved shooting that led to the death of an African-American man, but unlike others we've been hearing that we've been talking about, this officer has admitted that he made the wrong move. In fact, he admitted to his mistake on the scene, and this is also on tape. It's actually the body cam of another officer captures the moment this reserve deputy shot this man allegedly on the run. His name - here he is running. This is Eric Harris. The deputy says he used his gun instead of his Taser by accident.

[14:05:09] The killing happened during a sting operation this month in Tulsa County in Oklahoma. Sheriff's officials say Harris was to be arrested for illegally selling a pistol. This was a veteran reserve deputy who pulled the trigger by the name of Robert Bates. He has not been charged. The case is now in the hands of the district attorney.

We will show you this video, but just a warning because you are about to see the final moments of this man's life and the footage is tough to watch. The faces of the officers in this video have been blocked because they work undercover. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OTHER OFFICER: Stop right there.

(INAUDIBLE)

OTHER OFFICER: Roll on your stomach, now.

BATES: Oh, I shot him. I'm sorry.

OTHER OFFICER: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot him. He shot him.

OTHER OFFICER: Stop fighting.

(INAUDIBLE)

HARRIS: He shot me. He shot me. He shot me.

OTHER OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE) you hear me? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ran. So shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

HARRIS: Oh, God. Oh, he shot me. I didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot me, man. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you hear me?

HARRIS: I'm losing my breath.

OTHER OFFICER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your breath. Put his hands back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, there is a lot here. The language of the police. I've got a lot for you. which brings in what you brought in. So let's just begin with my - my obvious - the obvious first question is, how do you mistake a handgun from a Taser? How does that mistake happen?

KATZ: OK. The amount of training we give our police officers is shamefully inadequate.

BALDWIN: Inadequate?

KATZ: Inadequate. Under any stretch of the imagination. That's even with the better departments, period, OK? I've been a professional trainer for most of my adult life. This is just the fact of the matter. We need to do a much better job. There is no way an officer who's utilizing a Taser should have that accessible to his dominant hand. I don't know whether he did or not, so -

BALDWIN: Show me with this. Can you show me?

KATZ: OK. This is - this is an example. By the way, this is - this is a - what's called a red-handle pistol. It is not operational.

BALDWIN: Not operational.

KATZ: It's for training.

BALDWIN: OK.

KATZ: It's for training purposes just for this reason. This is a typical tactical rig. This - for a right-handed shooter, this is your shooting hand. It's accessible to your dominant hand. The Taser -

BALDWIN: That would be the actual gun?

KATZ: The actual weapon. Your Taser will be on the other side of your body, accessible to your - what's called - people say either the support hand or the weak hand. Why? Because you never make that mistake. You never go - I think I'm drawing for my Taser and I pull my handgun instead. Some departments have it - have a practice of wearing the Taser in a cross draw where the dominant hand reaches across. I don't like that idea and I think Taser has pretty much suggested that not be done. You are permitted to draw with your support hand, transfer it to your strong hand, but that, again, indicates or allows you to make sure that it's not the real pistol in your hand when you're deploying (ph).

BALDWIN: And to be clear, we don't know on this reserve officer -

KATZ: No idea. No idea.

BALDWIN: This 73-year-old officer, which side was which gun.

KATZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: But how do you decide, OK, I want to Tase someone, like in the case when this guy is running, before clearly they had taken him down and they were on him, you hear the shots fired, meaning to Tase him.

KATZ: Right.

BALDWIN: When would you make that decision and why?

KATZ: Well, typically I wouldn't make that - I wouldn't Tase anybody who was fleeing. What you do is - you use a Taser - it's an - it's called an electronic compliance weapon. It causes spasm and pain. And you get someone who's noncompliant to comply with your orders. Now, remember, this official (ph) case, the guy sold - allegedly sold a firearm to an undercover officer. So you know he's got access to weapons. So the responding officers are going to be very, very keyed up. Does he have another one? Are we wrestling -

BALDWIN: But they're keyed up. But I have to get on this point.

KATZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: "'F' your breath. Shut the "f" up." Is this the kind of language that officers use?

KATZ: Law enforcement is not pretty. And keep in mind that you don't know whether the guy's really hit or not, how badly is he hit. Yes, it seems - this seems awful. It seems - yes.

BALDWIN: He's - he says he's shot. He says he's not breathing and the officer responds with "'f' your breath."

KATZ: Right. But let me ask you - well, well, yes. Let me ask you a question. This guy's hands are not visible. Let's say the officer - or the individual has a handgun under his body and they roll him and so - so - so -

BALDWIN: Right. No, you're right. I don't know. I get your point.

KATZ: So the point is, you really - I mean your adrenaline is up. Would I have done that? I don't know. I can't - I can't tell. But under the stress, it's not - it's not something that's so shocking to me. The issue is you immediately have to render aid once you - once you determine he's no longer a threat and he's injured.

BALDWIN: Final question being, and a lot of us hadn't heard of this, this officer was an advanced reserve deputy officer, 73 years of age, under cover. And according to reports that say he had the license to, you know, whatever an active police officer does. But why is he involved in this in the first place? Why does he have access to these kinds of weapons? Is this pretty par for the course in the police department?

KATZ: Yes, well it's not - it's not typical - it's not the practice in New York City. I don't know what Tulsa is. Is it a manpower issue? Is it a monetary issue? They can't afford to bring on additional deputies? Was this a former law enforcement officer who's retired and who assists on a part-time basis? I don't know. But, again, it all comes down to training.

[14:10:04] And one more thing that I have to stress.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KATZ: Don't resist arrest.

BALDWIN: I know.

KATZ: If you think you're wrong, don't resist anyway. Clear it up in court later on.

BALDWIN: David Katz, thank you very much.

KATZ: A pleasure.

BALDWIN: Now to this. Marco Rubio getting ready to make it official just a short time from now, but one of his likely competitors, Jeb Bush, is also his mentor. How will that work out, their relationship?

Also, now that Hillary Clinton is in, what role will her husband play in this upcoming campaign?

Also, tragedy at Disney. This high-speed thrill ride ends with one person dying at one of the park's fantasy race car attractions. We'll tell you what happened behind the wheel.

And it is one of America's biggest cheating scandals and right now, as they await their sentencing, former public school teachers are begging the judge for forgiveness. But the judge in this case, not so sympathetic. See what happened moments ago. Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:03] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A rising Republican star joins Hillary Clinton in the expanding race for the White House. Florida Republican Senator Marco Rubio told donors privately this morning that he's officially in. He is due to announce to the rest of us in just a couple of hours. Hillary Clinton, as you know by now, announced her plans in an online video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm getting ready to do something too. I'm running for president. Americans have fought their way back from tough economic times, but the deck is still stacked in favor of those at the top. Every day Americans need a champion, and I want to be that champion so you can do more than just get by, you can get ahead and stay ahead because when families are strong, America is strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Surprise. Maybe not so big surprise, Michael Smerconish, that she's in it officially. Smerconish, host of CNN's "Smerconish" and a CNN political commentator.

Here's what I want to begin with because she's really, for the first time, embracing, unlike the last go around, the fact that this would be history, that she would be the first female president and that's certainly something that none of the GOP candidates has on her.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's true, and I think that the challenge for this announcement is that we all think we know the product, right. So you're really trying to reintroduce a product into the stream of commerce and to do it with some fresh appeal. It was an attempt at being edgy. I thought it was effective. I thought it was very effective in terms of all those faces. The vibe was one of being very upbeat. I've heard some critics say that there wasn't really policy attached to it, but there was an unmistakable message of income inequality and strength of the middle class or maybe lack of strength of the middle class right now. So I think she checked off a series of boxes, Brooke, in the process of that two-minute video.

BALDWIN: But to your point a second ago about how, you know, America, no matter how some people may feel, they feel like they do know the Clintons. And here she is announcing she's hopping in this van, you know, and driving here from New York to Iowa, stopping along the way at these, you know, diner visits. I mean how - does the campaign really think that America doesn't know Hillary Clinton?

SMERCONISH: Well, the challenge is, there's 18 months on the clock. How else are you going to fill the time? I agree with your point. I believe that we could run this election tomorrow and Secretary Clinton could be one of the candidates and, frankly, it almost doesn't matter who the other one is because you know she's probably got 47 percent of the vote locked up right now. And it's what happens with the next 5 or so percent that's going to determine the outcome of this election. And I meet very few people or take telephone calls on the radio from very few people who aren't of a fixed opinion about both Clintons.

BALDWIN: That's interesting. And then there's the Bill Clinton factor. When you look back to 2008, all of his speaking extemporaneously going off script, criticizing Barack Obama. That didn't necessarily help their cause. And I'm wondering, do we really know what his role will be in this campaign?

SMERCONISH: She needs the Bill Clinton who showed up at the 2012 Democratic National Convention and delivered just a hell of a speech, not the Bill Clinton that you're making reference to, who got off message and sometimes off rails in the 2008 cycle. But I think on balance, he's a big net plus for her. Although, I don't think he's in the van that's, you know, cruising across the state of Ohio as we speak.

BALDWIN: Let me pivot with you now to Senator Marco Rubio, expected to announce in less than four hours from now. You know he's this first- term senator, just like Barack Obama was then-Senator Barack Obama. How can Republicans support him now when they argued back - back in the day it was then Senator Obama's inexperience that was reason not to vote for him?

SMERCONISH: Well, you're right, it's Senator Cruz, it's Senator Paul, it's Senator Rubio who are all first-timers who probably to a person were critical of Barack Obama when he was running for the highest office on an experience basis. I'm more interested not so much in how they handle it but in how Hillary Clinton handles it, right, because -

BALDWIN: How do you mean?

SMERCONISH: You would think that - well, you would think that experience would be a hallmark of her campaign this time around. Former United States senator, former first lady, former secretary of state. So if you are her, you want to trumpet the fact that you have all these bona fides to the detriment to those Republicans that we've just named. But if she starts playing the experience card, I mean, wouldn't their response be, wait a minute, Barack Obama was exactly where we are right now. Are you saying that he was too inexperienced when he ran for the job?

BALDWIN: And you throw out all those, you know, Republican contender names. Somebody was saying this morning, you know, essentially the fact that it really could end up helping a Hillary Clinton if there's all this mudslinging coming from all these different Republicans towards her and she perhaps raises - you know, rises above the fray and doesn't sling back from the ground level. Can you - can you see that way?

[14:20:02] SMERCONISH: I can see it. I could see, for example, the overplaying of whatever the Benghazi hand might consist of. I think that that's an issue that has appeal to the base. The base will come out and vote in the primary and caucus process. But you can't run a campaign based only on Benghazi against Hillary Clinton if you want to appeal to independents who, in the end, are going to control the outcome of this election.

BALDWIN: Final question. These, you know, multiple Republicans coming out saying, yes, I'm running for president and then hopping over to Fox News Channel over to Hannity. That's their, you know, out of the gate interview. And, I mean, I'd love for them to come here or come to you, but do you think - do you think it would be advantageous to go somewhere where they may be challenged a bit more, less softball, more pointed?

SMERCONISH: You know, it's - I don't think it's necessarily the level of the questioning or the lack of intensity of the questioning. It's all about the base. Where do you want to go if you want to reach older white males? It's to Fox News and it's to that program in particular because those are the individuals who carry the most sway in the primaries and the caucuses. So they're going where the votes are. But, Brooke, here's the kicker.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: They can go there in primary season, and that can be a successful strategy. That is not how you win a general election. Sooner or later, you better be on CNN.

BALDWIN: Amen. Michael Smerconish, thank you very much.

SMERCONISH: See ya.

BALDWIN: And make sure you tune in to watch my friend here Saturday mornings, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, here on CNN.

Coming up next, death at Disney World as a high-speed sports car ride turns deadly as a Lamborghini loses control on a race track. What went so wrong behind that wheel?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:52] BALDWIN: A high-speed thrill ride at Walt Disney World ends in tragedy for a driving instructor at one of the park's fantasy race car attractions. This happened at the Richard Petty Exotic Driving Experience. The ride allows visitors to race luxury sports cars around a track. Florida's Highway Patrol says the driver lost control of the Lamborghini and crashed into a guardrail while trying to navigate a curve. The instructor was the car's passenger. Officials say he died instantly. The driver, meantime, suffered minor injuries.

Here with me now to explain how these driving experiences typically operate is our CNN Money correspondent Peter Valdes-Dapena, who has been in some very fast cars in your lifetime. You were telling me in commercial, doing upwards of 160 miles an hour around certain tracks. A different track from the one we're talking about at Walt Disney World. But sitting in a car like that, having an instructor in the passenger seat, what is that like?

PETER VALDES-DAPENA, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: It's a - it's a really interesting experience when you're - especially for someone that doesn't do this all the time. I mean this is designed for people who don't do this all the time. The track layout is really pretty simple. Not a complicated track to drive. The cars are pretty easy cars to drive. They're not tricky. They don't tend to spin out if you hit the gas a little bit too early. And I think they're pretty straightforward.

BALDWIN: A Lamborghini is a pretty easy car to drive?

VALDES-DAPENA: You could - you could -

BALDWIN: You know how to -

VALDES-DAPENA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Navigate?

VALDES-DAPENA: You could - you could drive a Lamborghini and really not have any problem with it. these are not difficult, tricky, actual race cars. These are mostly streetcars. High powered, but cars designed for driving on the street.

Now, when you're doing this, they do give you some classroom instruction before you go out. That would be instructions on just navigating the track safely, make sure you don't hit anyone, here's where to go slow, you know, watch out in the pit lanes, when you can accelerate, when to accelerate, when to start braking. And in this case they give you a driving instructor, a professional driver, who rides in the passenger seat with you to tell you, OK, hit the gas hard right here. OK, start coming off the gas. Hit the brakes here. Start braking here to get ready for that turn. Here's where on the track (INAUDIBLE) you go into this next turn. They're going to help you with things like this. And from what I understand, in this case, the drivers also have a throttle cut-off switch that allows them -

BALDWIN: The instructor. So -

VALDES-DAPENA: The instructor does. Excuse me, the instructor does.

BALDWIN: Because I'm remembering back just to when I'm learning to drive at 15. I remember my, you know, instructor had that brake he could - he could hit -

VALDES-DAPENA: Right.

BALDWIN: Heaven forbid I was doing something I shouldn't have been doing. In this case you're saying there is a throttle, there is - there is maybe something manually he can hit to dial back the gas.

VALDES-DAPENA: Dial back the gas if - if the student driver, if the person driving isn't - isn't following instructions carefully enough to sort of dial things back a little bit. We don't know what happened in this case. Was there a mechanical problem? Did the person just hit the gas too hard coming out of a turn maybe? Get the car upset and didn't correct properly? We really don't know what happened.

BALDWIN: It was a simple track, you're saying.

VALDES-DAPENA: But it was a - it was a fairly simple track. We don't know what happened in this case.

BALDWIN: Peter Valdes-Dapena, thank you very much.

Next, teachers turned cheaters. Sentencing happening right now for this group of educators convicted in a widespread cheating scandal to inflate student test scores. Hear them in court as they are begging this judge for leniency.

Plus, it is an interview you cannot miss. I'll speak with a man who just left prison after 30 years on death row. He is now a free man after a new revelation. He gets candid about eating meals and being frightened of forks and walking freely in malls and what he thinks of the police officers and lawyers who put him there. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)