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Convicted Atlanta Educators Beg Judge for Leniency; Anthony Ray Hinton Released After 30 Years on Death Row. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired April 13, 2015 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:33:27] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
Let me tell you what. This story is one of the nation's biggest cheating scandals ever. Right now, most of the Atlanta educators convicted of racketeering and other charges are in court for sentencing. They're begging that judge for leniency. They're facing possible sentences of anywhere from five to 20 years in prison. All day, this judge has been hearing from spouses and children and other character witnesses, including former U.N. Ambassador Andrew Young. Some of the defendants themselves are begging the judge to go easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA EVANS, CONVICTED EDUCATOR: I just want to ask if for the next five minutes while I talk to you, if you could consider me as something other than a convicted felon. I'm not erasing the decision that the jury made. I accept it and respect it.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Well, before you start, I can see that you're a wonderful educator. I think my son --
(CROSSTALK)
EVANS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: -- said that he --
EVANS: Yes. I was the counselor.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: I didn't know that.
EVANS: I know you didn't know that.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: I think your case is probably the biggest tragedy of all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Alan Judd, let me bring you in, investigative reporter with the "Atlanta Journal Constitution."
I tip my hat to you and your colleagues at the paper for all of your reporting that blew this scandal wide open. Just to hear that judge -- I know it was tough to hear, but that judge essentially saying to this former counselor in the Atlanta public school system, you know, his kid was in that school and he was calling her case the greatest tragedy. This judge, tough judge.
[14:35:15] ALAN JUDD, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: Yeah, I think he's lived this case so much for the last several months. This is the longest running criminal trial ever in Georgia. It's gone on since last September. So I think he has lived it as much as a lot of other people have and has really taken a lot of it to heart.
BALDWIN: These are counselors, teachers, test administrators. They wanted their schools to look good, so they were fudging some of the test scores of these students and got in huge trouble. Do we think they'll be going to prison, or are there deals in the works?
JUDD: There are reports of some agreements that may be reached and may be announced today or tomorrow that would possibly mitigate the time today might serve. Some people might not serve time at all or may serve only on weekends for some period of time in addition to probation. But apparently the caveat to that is they would have to acknowledge guilt and issue a public apology.
BALDWIN: We mentioned some character witnesses testifying. I've got some sound from Ambassador Andrew Young speaking. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW YOUNG, FORMER ATLANTA MAYOR & FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: I think these teachers got caught in a trap. Dr. King used to say when people are placed in darkness, crimes will be committed. But the guilty are not just those who commit the crimes but those who create the darkness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So he's saying they were caught in this trap, you know, to erase incorrect test answers and replace them with correct ones. Just for context, Alan, tell our viewers how big of a deal this was in the city of Atlanta.
JUDD: This involved more than two-thirds of the elementary and middle schools in the city. Thousands of students had their test scores changed over the years. There was a lot of pressure placed on individual teachers, principals, testing coordinators, particularly by the former superintendent, Beverly Hall, who passed away a little over a month ago. She continually set higher standards, higher bars that they must meet to keep their positions. So they had a lot of pressure on them to create this appearance that the system had turned around and had finally solved this mystery of how to improve in an urban system.
BALDWIN: We'll watch to see what happens in all this sentencing.
Alan Judd, with the "Atlanta Journal Constitution," excellent reporting. Thank you so, so much for coming on.
JUDD: Thanks.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, this unforgettable interview. Some of you tweeted me about it. This man set free after 30 years on death row. He got incredibly, emotionally candid about how difficult it's been in the last week after 30 years on death row to adjust to life on the outside world. What kept him going? The saddest day of his life behind bars. Do not miss that.
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[14:42:29] BALDWIN: Now to the story of Anthony Ray Hinton. He's 58 years of age but, in many ways, he's new to the world, at least the one we all now know. Because just last Friday, Hinton was released after 30 years on Alabama's death row.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
(CRYING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Jesus! Thank you, lord!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Those hugs went on for more than two minutes.
Convicted of two murders in Birmingham in 1985, Hinton was freed after a judge granted the state's motion to drop the charges. Now Hinton has to adjust to the 21st century. Just think about the last time he was a free man. '85, Ronald Reagan was president. "Back to the Future" led the box office. And a stamp cost 22 cents.
Of course, there are other things on Ray Hinton's mind. He talked to me about what life has been like to finally be free. And with him was the man who helped liberate him, his attorney, Bryan Stevenson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANTHONY RAY HINTON, FREED AFTER 30 YEARS ON DEATH ROW: I feel wonderful. I have to pinch myself to tell myself that I'm free, but I'm having a little problem once it turns dark. I haven't been outside in the dark in 30 years. So I've been telling my friend, Lester, it's time for us to get back in. He say, you free, it's OK. It's going to take me a little type, but I'm getting used to it. I like it.
BALDWIN: I bet you do like it. The notion of being in a five-by- seven cell for 30 years, you did it. What is it about darkness that makes you afraid?
HINTON: They don't let you be outside at a certain time in the penitentiary. Not only that, they have to have so much security. You have to have bed check at 6:00. So I'm kind of used to somebody coming through at 6:00, counting, making sure you're in your cell. When you been doing it for 30 years and you know the routine like I know it, it takes a while to get used to someone not coming through to count to make sure you're in your bed.
[14:45:04] BALDWIN: So darkness, walking freely. Speaking of routine, here you can order any kind of food imaginable. I understand you're sticking with fried chicken, which is something you could have had in prison.
HINTON: I prefer it out here. It's cooked better.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I bet it tastes a little sweeter, I imagine.
HINTON: It is. But I'm just so happy to be out. I'm just so thankful to god for bringing me through it. I always say I'm thankful to Mr. Stevenson for sticking by me and working night and day seven days a week to secure my freedom because I shouldn't have ever been on death row in the first place.
BALDWIN: Mr. Stevenson, I have questions for you.
But, Ray, I have to stick with you. I have a lot of questions, the big, the little, and in between.
Staying with the notion of the meals, I was reading an interview in which you said you're having a tough time using something as simple as a fork. Can you explain why?
HINTON: Well, on death row, they only give you plastic spoons. We don't have forks or silver spoons or anything like that. The reason they don't give us that is because you can sharpen them down, make a knife or a shank out of them. So I'm just used to plastic spoons.
BALDWIN: I know that on death row, I understand you did see a lot of death with your own eyes. People taking their own lives instead of ultimately what would be happening to them. Did you ever come close to a breaking point?
HINTON: No, I didn't come close to a breaking point, but I'd be lying to you if I told you that Satan didn't tell me to kill myself. I think every man on death row at some point in time, Satan will creep up on you and say, listen, they going to kill you, don't give him the satisfaction of killing you. Do it yourself. I would immediately tell Satan to get behind me and go to my, as I call it, happy moment, which was my sense of humor. So I feel like Satan was laughing at me.
BALDWIN: How did you manage a sense of humor, sir, on death row?
HINTON: To be honest with you, I had no choice. It was something that I was born with, but I never thought it would come in handy in the sense that I had to use it. Being on death row, you had to use it every day. At least I did. Most people think I was trying to make them laugh, which I was, but I was trying to escape reality for being on death row. It's extra hard to be on death row for something you didn't do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: There's more of this when we come back. Ray talked to me about his saddest day behind bars and the moment he heard some horrible news from outside. Also, he tells me the one place he was robbed of his 20s, his 30s, his 40s, and the remaining years of his life, the one place he wants to go. Don't miss that.
Plus, more moments from the police officer who shot and killed Walter Scott in South Carolina. Hear what he said to one of his fellow officers and what it could mean for this murder case against him.
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[14:52:25] BALDWIN: Here's the second part of that interview. When Ray Hinton was freed from Alabama's death row after 30 years, prosecutors finally acknowledged that the gun evidence that helped convict him back in 1985 was, quote/unquote, "inclusive." While Hinton is in no fear of further prosecution, he still grieves over the biggest loss he suffered in imprisonment. Here's the second part of my conversation with Ray Hinton.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: Ray, talk to me about the saddest day of your life in 2002 when you learned your mother had passed. Can you tell me about that?
HINTON: Yes, I'll never forget it. We had a captain by the name of Captain Craft (ph). He sent for me. I didn't think nothing of it. He called me down and told me that he had received a phone call that my mother had passed, and I just broke down in front of the office and cried. He told me if there was anything he could do, just let him know.
When you lose your mother, someone that was there for you from birth and you have all these mothers having children and not taking care of them, my mother was just the opposite. My mother made sure I had food, made sure I had clothes, made sure that I had a place to lay my head. She just went out of her way to make sure that not just me but all of her kids was brought up proper, and she did the best she could. And for me to be on death row for something I didn't do and not be there for her when I felt she needed me the most, I can't sit here and tell you how that feeling was then. I was just sad, lonely. I felt helpless. I felt that I had let her down. And me and my mother had a relationship like no other. I could tell her anything. We would sit on the porch and laugh. No matter who she introduced me to, she always said, this is my baby.
(LAUGHTER)
It just meant a lot to me that I had to go to the graveyard to say good-bye to my mother because I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral or the funeral home and see my mother. I never did get a chance to see my mother. And I would have just loved to have been able to say -- tell her how much I loved her over the years, which I did sometimes through the telephone. But when she got in bad health, I knew she was sick because she stopped coming to the prison to see me. But I didn't know that it was that severe.
So I just had a bad, rough time. You don't ever get over it. But I knew she wouldn't want me to just sit there and mope and groan and complain. So that's when my sense of humor kicked in, and I never looked back. I cried many nights since she passed. I'm trying to be strong as I talk to you now and not cry. But every time someone mentions my mother, I want to cry because I had an extraordinary mother. I wouldn't trade my mother for all the money in the world.
(CROSSTALK)
[14:55:2] BALDWIN: That's wonderful. That is so wonderful.
No, forgive me for interjecting. But I'm so sorry for the passing of your mother. I love hearing such loving words as you're describing it her. I can't help as I'm hearing this and I'm sad for you that you could not say good-bye.
I'm wondering to you, Bryan Stevenson, as I'm hearing this man speak, why? Apparently, all that had to be done to set Ray free was test the gun and this would have been over. It still took this ballistic test 12 years to free the man you're sitting next to. Tell me why.
BRYAN STEVENSON, ATTORNEY FOR ANTHONY RAY HINTON: This case is a really powerful demonstration of a problem, which is that we have a system that treats you better if you're rich and guilty, than if you're poor and innocent. And it is shameful. I've never had a case where the evidence of innocence is so clear and so immediate and so accessible, and not been able to get the state to do the simple thing they have to do to access that evidence. We begged them for years to just simply do the test. And they would rather risk executing an innocent person than risk the perception that somehow they're not tough on crime or that they're not -- they're being too responsive to the needs of a person. And it's the indifference of these officials that I think is the most shameful part of this case. We really don't have the kind of accountability that we need to have from our elected officials who run the criminal justice system. And Mr. Hinton's case is a tragic, tragic example of that.
BALDWIN: Mr. Hinton, final question. I know you said your 20s were robbed from you and your 30s and 40s. Here you are, you're out and free. Who do you want to be these remaining decades of your life? And what's the one place you want to go?
HINTON: Believe it or not, I want to go to Yankees Stadium and sit and eat me one of those expensive hot dogs that I seen on TV and root for the Yankees. But the other part, what I want to be, I want to be a light for those that is in darkness. I want to be an example that you don't have to treat people bors or bad because they did something to you. I want to learn people to forgive and pray. They despitefully used me as an example of I'm mightier than mighty, I answer to no one. Like I said, you're going to answer. You're going to answer to god. I guarantee you, you ain't going to like the result. My hands will be clean. When I leave this interview tonight, as I have since I got out, I will pray for those that are still living. I will ask god to continue to bless them. And when his day comes for him to judge them, I assure you they will be judged fairly.
BALDWIN: Ray Hinton, now a free man. Would you believe I am heading to Yankees Stadium tonight to watch the game against the Red Sox? I will order that hot dog in your honor, sir. And I will see what I can do to get you to Yankees Stadium. All right?
HINTON: All right.
Ray Hinton and Bryan Stevenson, thank you both so much.
HINTON: Thank you for having me.
STEVENSON: Bye-bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:59:06] BALDWIN: Two updates for you. First, I did go to Yankees Stadium. I didn't stay all 19 innings Friday night, but I'm working on it.
I also need to pass this along to you. The Jefferson County District Attorney, who we have reached out to in reference to this whole case, stopped short of calling Ray Hinton innocent. He said a victim of an attack similar to the murders Hinton was accused of identified Hinton. And an eyewitness also I.D.'d him. Both of those people have died. The D.A. said, quote, "We believe that there's not enough evidence to prove he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt today." I should also mention he said that the family members of the two men killed are still upset over Hinton's release.
