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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

North Carolina College Shooting; Second Officer Investigated; Tulsa Shooting; Police Shootings; Clinton Announces Run. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired April 13, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A few more. Congratulations. (INAUDIBLE).

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Not a dream, buddy.

BERMAN: That's all for us AT THIS HOUR.

BOLDUAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Pamela Brown today starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW on this Monday.

And we begin today with breaking news, a shooting on the campus of Wayne Community College. That's in Goldsboro, North Carolina. One person is dead and the shooter is still at large at this hour. Our Rosa Flores joins us now with more details.

Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela.

We are getting new details at this hour. Police tell us that they have a person of interest on the watch. This person is still on the loose, they tell us. The name, Kenneth Stancil. Probably about 20 years old. And police, authorities believe that he actually knew the victim in this particular case.

Now, authorities not telling us any motive at this point in time, but here is what we know, Pamela. According to authorities, at about 8:10 today, there was at shooter who entered that campus and on the third floor near the library, one of those buildings, shots rang out. One person was found dead. And from what we know from authorities, only that individual has been injured.

Now, authorities have also given us a description of this particular man by the name of Kenneth Stancil in his 20s. Now that description, bald, white male, 5'11", tattoo over his left eye, goatee, blue jacket, light colored jeans. Now, we've learned that multiple law enforcement authorities on the ground have set a perimeter and they have evacuated that campus and are looking actively for this shooter.

Now, Pam, we are waiting to hear more details about the motive, of course, in this particular case. What we do know from authorities at this point in time is that they believe that Kenneth Stancil knew the victim in this particular case. We, of course, are asking more questions and we'll get them to you as soon as we can.

BROWN: Still a very active situation there. Thank you so much, Rosa Flores.

And also happening in this hour, we have a new audio recording from the aftermath of the South Carolina police shooting that ended with Walter Scott dead in an open field. It is difficult to hear, but listen to Officer Michael Slager talk to a fellow officer shortly after shooting Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last one we had, they waited a couple days to interview officials, to be like sit down and say what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I'll probably get home, probably be a good idea to kind of jot down your thoughts of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And once you - the adrenaline stops pumping -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pumping, yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Slager is behind bars facing murder charges for shooting Scott five times in the back.

And the other big development in this story today, the actions of the second police officer at the scene of the shooting are now being scrutinized. The National Bar Association says Clarence Habersham should be prosecuted for what he said and didn't say in the police report. CNN's Nick Valencia joins us now live from North Charleston, South Carolina.

Nick, first off, if you would remind us why the police report is under scrutiny and tell us whether there is an open investigation into the handling of this case.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was discrepancies between the version of the events for Officer Slager and what transpired and what people saw with their own eyes transpired there and the video that was released, taped by an anonymous witness who had since come forward. Today, though, as you mentioned, there's calls for Officer Clarence Habersham to be prosecuted. Those calls coming specifically from the National Bar Association, as well as other civil rights leaders.

We don't know his status right now, Pamela. That's an outstanding question right now. We've reached out to the North Charlton Police Department, as well as the South Carolina Law Enforcement Department and no one has been able to tell us if Officer Clarence Habersham is still on the streets. It is worth noting, though, that no formal charges have been levelled against anyone except for Officer Slager. That officer about a week after his arrest remains behind bars being held without bond.

Pamela.

BROWN: Nick, tell us, are there any protests planned for today there?

VALENCIA: Oh, certainly. We saw earlier this morning just a handful of protesters, about a dozen out here, blocking traffic, continuing their demonstration against what they call a culture of indifference between the African-American community here and the police department. At 5:00 p.m. just behind me you'll see North Charleston City Hall. There is a larger demonstration planned where people, again, will protest against the shooting death of that victim, 50-year-old Walter Scott.

Pamela.

BROWN: Nick Valencia, thank you very much.

And this hour we are also keeping a close eye on another controversial police shooting, this time in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Seventy-three-year-old Reserved Deputy Robert Bates shot a suspect when he allegedly confused his gun for his Taser. This undercover video right here shows Eric Harris trying to sell an illegal gun just moments before he was shot. Harris bolts from the car when he finds out he is about to be arrested.

[12:04:57] Now the video we're about to show you is from the body cam of one of the officers who chases Harris. I must warn you, you're going to hear the man being shot and you will hear him screaming in pain. The faces of the officers in this video have been blocked out because of their undercover work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OTHER OFFICER: Stop right there.

(INAUDIBLE))

OTHER OFFICER: Roll on your stomach, now.

BATES: Oh, I shot him. I'm sorry.

OTHER OFFICER: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot him. He shot him.

OTHER OFFICER: Stop fighting.

(INAUDIBLE) HARRIS: He shot me. He shot me. He shot me.

OTHER OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE) you hear me? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ran. So shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

HARRIS: Oh, God. Oh, he shot me. I didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot me, man. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you hear me?

HARRIS: I'm losing my breath.

OTHER OFFICER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your breath. Put his hands back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Disturbing. Joining me now on the phone from Tulsa, Oklahoma, is CNN's Ed Lavandera.

Ed, as we know, the officer who shot him says that he thought he was using his Taser, not his gun. The Tulsa Police handed that case over to an internal investigator. Is that standard?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, it was the Tulsa County Sheriff's Department that did that and that case has now been turned over, we understand, to the district attorney's office and prosecutors are looking at it to determine whether or not any criminal charges will be filed against this reserve deputy that was working alongside a violent crime task force back on April 2nd. So we're awaiting to hear if the district attorney here in Tulsa is going to file any criminal charges against this reserve deputy.

BROWN: And you point out, he's a reserve deputy. What more do we know about him and his level of experience as an officer?

LAVANDERA: Well, the sheriff's department said that he had undergone several hundred hours of training and was certified. A reserve deputy officer is different from a regular deputy with the sheriff's department. In many states, these programs exist it's a - it almost seems more like an honorary type position. So there are some questions as to, you know, why a reserve deputy could have been in a situation like this.

However, the sheriff's department says that this is standard in the way these operate. That there are dozens of reserve deputies that help out regular deputies within the sheriff's department and that this is not unusual for them to be in these types of situations. Obviously there's a great deal of, you know, debate about whether or not that should or shouldn't happen. But here in Tulsa, the sheriff's deputies say that it is standard and that Bob Bates, who was the reserve deputy, has basically had the function and the ability to work just like any other deputy within the sheriff's department.

So a lot of questions swirling around that. And the sheriff's department says that essentially Bob Bates confused his Taser for his small hand gun that he had on him and they've gone through great lengths to explain how that could have happened.

BROWN: And if you would, let us know what they're saying as far as how that could have happened, how he confused his gun for his Taser.

LAVANDERA: Well, they say it was, you know, a very quick situation. That they - the officers believed that the suspect, who ended up dying, but that he still could have been armed and had a gun on him and that there was a small window of opportunity there for Bob Bates to deploy his Taser. They say that the - both the Taser and the small hand gun that he had on him weighed about the same. And in that split second, you know, they said that it's very possible for someone to react and confuse those two different weapons in a situation like that.

They went through a - over the last couple days, sheriff's deputies have kind of basically put on a show and tell and description from the outside consultant who came in and advised them and has looked into this case for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Department. So they're going to great lengths to kind of explain where many people have the question, it's like how in the world is something like this possible? You know really taking steps to kind of show how that might happen in a very volatile situation like we saw unfold on this video.

BROWN: Ed Lavandera, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

Well, so much more to talk about with these two police shootings. Should a second officer be charged in South Carolina and was that Oklahoma officer we were just talking about justified in pulling the trigger even though he didn't mean to. The legal view from our expert lawyers up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:02] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROWN: Also breaking this hour, an ongoing hostage situation in Jemison City, Alabama. That's about an hour south of Birmingham. Here are some live pictures we're taking a look at happening at a doctor's office where a shooting was confirmed earlier this morning. Nearby streets have been closed off and schools are on lockdown. Of course, we will keep you updated on this story as it develops.

And if you are just joining us, we are following some new developments in two vastly different police shootings. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, the shooting may have been a tragic accident. A 73-year-old reserve deputy allegedly confused his firearm with his stun gun and shot and killed a suspect during an undercover operation.

And in North Charleston, South Carolina, the shooting may be murder -- may have been murder. And to make matters even worse, there may have been a cover-up. So let's talk about all of the legal repercussions, potential repercussions here, of these two shootings with our team of legal experts, CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins, criminal defense attorney Midwin Charles and former federal prosecutor Fred Tecce. Great to have three of you with us.

Mel, I'm going to start with you. We're going to focus on the shooting there in North Charleston. There were other officers there involved at the scene of that shooting. Could there be charges against them, do you think?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it's an excellent question. Good afternoon, Pamela. And the answer is, yes, there could be. But the question is, what would the charges be? And what people are upset about is the second officer that arrived on the scene filled out a police report about the incident saying that he administered CPR, applied pressure to the bullet wounds. And the truth is, when you look at the video, he did absolutely none of those things.

Now, in the state of South Carolina, filing a false police report only carries up to 30 days in jail and a $200 fine. So I'm not sure much will be made out of this from a criminal standpoint. From an administrative standpoint, this officer could see some sort of repercussions in terms of his job, though, Pam.

[12:15:06] BROWN: But, Midwin, I want to go to you, because as Mel pointed out, the video doesn't show that CPR was used, but is there enough evidence to prove that there - CPR wasn't administered? In other words, could there have been a gap in time with the video that, you know, didn't show that CPR was being used?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't know. I mean it doesn't appear as though there was a gap in the video. But at the end of the day, this is a police officer who is trained. He knows how to fill out police reports and arguably we would want him to do that accurately. So this has wide percussions with respect to whether or not this is something that this police officer has done in the past and whether or not this is a police department that tolerates filling out inaccurate police reports. And here you can see that this is such a miscarriage of justice in this particular case that for him to do something like this, it just speaks so many volumes.

BROWN: Which - and we don't know yet. That is still, you know, going to be looked at and investigated.

CHARLES: Right.

BROWN: I want to turn to the other shooting that we've been focused on in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Fred, to you on this. We know - we just heard that Bates, the man who shot the suspect, was a reserve sheriff's deputy. Is he even a real cop? I mean what was he doing there in the first place, part of this undercover operation, armed with a gun and Taser?

FRED TECCE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It raises a lot of troubling questions in my mind. I mean the fact that he's a reserve deputy, you know, is he properly -- has he been properly trained, has he been properly certificated? I mean why is a reserve deputy out there with deadly force with a firearm and with a Taser? And, you know, the real question that comes to my mind is training. I mean how could this guy have mistaken a Taser for a firearm? I mean if this is a tragic accident, then it's just that. But the city really needs, in light of a lot of the stuff that's going on, to make sure that they do a thorough investigation to make sure that this was an accident and predicated upon this guy's lack of proper training.

BROWN: Right. I mean that's - his training is going to be under scrutiny. Mel, I want to ask you this, does his reserve status open the city up to more liability?

ROBBINS: You know, not necessarily. I mean if he was under the command and control and the direction as part of a bigger operation, then he was under the direction of the state. And you've got to remember that cities and states give the police officers qualified immunity from liability in many circumstances. And so as they look into this case and your question is whether or not the city could be held liable, it's not going to matter whether or not he had reserve status. What's going to matter is, was there a pattern and practice? Was the city negligent in not training him properly? You know, lots of questions like that are going to come into play, Pam.

BROWN: OK. Thank you so much. Mel, Midwin and Fred, thank you for your perspective and stay with us we have more questions for you later in the show.

TECCE: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: Well, Hillary Clinton officially entering the presidential race and trying to get all the attention by stepping out of the spotlight this time around. We'll explain coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We have breaking news now on the 2016 race for the White House. Telling donors he's running for president and that he's, quote, "uniquely qualified" to talk about the future, just moments ago we saw freshman Florida Senator Marco Rubio leaving the Freedom Center in Miami. Rubio is the third Republican candidate to enter the presidential campaign. Tonight, Rubio will make his official announcement from Miami's Freedom Tower. That's a place where Cuban immigrants used to be processed after fleeing the Castro regime.

And in a CNN/ORC poll last month, Rubio trailed Hillary Clinton 55 percent to 42 with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent.

Speaking of Hillary Clinton, not a repeat of 2008 for Clinton. In this presidential campaign, Clinton isn't ignoring her gender. She's embracing it and she's reaching out to women and taking the focus off of herself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON: I'm running for president. Americans have fought their way back from tough economic times, but the deck is still stacked in favor of those at the top. Everyday Americans need a champion and I want to be that champion so you can do more than just get by, you can get ahead and stay ahead because when families are strong, America is strong. (END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:21:30] BROWN: And in that announcement, 30 people were featured, 20 of them women, and Hillary Clinton mentioned herself not one time. The idea this time around, it's not about her, it's about everyday Americans.

Joining me now to discuss from Miami is CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Ana Navarro, who is also a Jeb Bush supporter and good friend of Marco Rubio, and Hilary Rosen, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.

Great to have you both with us to talk about this.

And I'm going to go to you. You know, just looking at the video, looking at what has transpired over the last 24 hours or so, you know, it seems like Clinton's audience that she's trying to attract here are the suburban women whose husbands vote Republican, their moderate, don't always vote Democrat, those women in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Colorado. If she appeals to them and gets them to vote for her, does she have a good path to victory here?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You think that's who she's trying to appeal with? You know, because, I mean, the subtlety of this campaign when it comes to appealing to women, you know, is really lacking. And either she reinvented herself in 2008 or she reinvented herself now because we're seeing a dramatically different Hillary Clinton. "The New Yorker" just had a satire piece saying that any moment we're going to see a Hillary Clinton ad that's nothing but kittens. Yes, if she gets to - if she's able to attract women, absolutely it's a great path to victory. Women are the majority of voters in the United States. If she can attract them and get them to the polls, yes.

But I think we can't oversimplify the woman thing. Look, I'm not going to vote for a Latino just because he's Latino. I'm not going to vote for a woman just because she's a woman. People are looking for qualified folks to be in the White House and that's something that's going to require her talking about issues.

BROWN: So, Hillary, just talking about female voters, do you think the Clinton campaign may run the risk of using the gender card too much, trying to appeal to women too much and therefore turning off some women who may feel patronized?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I actually agree with Ana that I think experience and policy come first and I think there Hillary Clinton is going to have an advantage over any member of that Republican primary today. We've got, you know, three first-term senators and, you know, one guy who was governor a very long time ago, not in public life for a long time. So I think when you look at the breadth of and diversity of Hillary Rosen - Hillary Clinton's experience. That's pretty funny. First time I've done that in two days. That, you know, she is going to win based on her experience, on her policy and her issues. [12:25:27] Now, her life experience, though, is about being a woman

and a mom and now a grandmother and having sat at the table with families, looking at those kitchen table issues, and that is going to be a part not just of what people reflect back to her but of who she is and always has been. This is no rebranding. This is really just Hillary Clinton as she cares about - about those middle-class voters. So I think people are going to see that and think they're going to like it and I think women of America are going to respond. I mean it's about time a president actually has experience having had to deal with kids, you know, running to school (INAUDIBLE) or sick parents or keeping the household together. You know, people are going to appreciate that analogy.

BROWN: And, Hilary, I want to ask you this too because there had been a lot of Democrats to come out and already endorse her just after she announced, but there's one glaring omission right now, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio's public decision not to endorse Mrs. Clinton yet. He ran her Senate campaign back in 2000. So what do you make of that?

ROSEN: Well, sure there are a lot of Democrats who haven't endorsed her and I think Democrats want to see a healthy debate of ideas and I think we've heard from the Clinton team that she intends to participate in a debate of ideas. I think we are going to have debates. What - you know, it looks like Martin O'Malley is going to be one of those folks who will be, you know, on the stage debating her. So I very much believe that she has to earn this in the Democratic primary.

I think the Mayor de Blasio thing is a little bit of a separate issue. It's very much about internal New York politics. But I don't think that that has anything to do with the fact that Hillary Clinton really does believe, and as I do, that she has to earn this nomination, that she has to put forth good policy ideas and that the progressive wing of the party cares about these issues.

BROWN: And, Ana, Republicans, of course, have been quick to pounce on Mrs. Clinton, especially her foreign policy legacy as secretary of state. Let's take a listens to this from expected 2016 candidate Jeb Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: We must do better than the Obama/Clinton foreign policy that has damaged relationships with our allies and emboldened our enemies. Better than their failed big government policies that grow our debt and stand in the way of real economic growth and prosperity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Ana, in your opinion, how much does Hillary's time as secretary of state, and particularly her role in Benghazi, factor in here?

NAVARRO: Oh, look, her entire tenure as secretary of state I think is going to be under scrutiny. Benghazi certainly will be a part of it, but I think in its entirety will be under scrutiny. It's not easy to dissociate yourself from an administration you've been part of. And, yes, she's going to have to respond for some of the failures that this administration has had on foreign policy, whether it's Russia reset, whether it's Syria. You know, she's been involved and been a part of that. It's a big, big part of her resume. It's her most recent experience that she brings to the table. Interestingly enough, we didn't see one word of it in this video launch and it's not something she has talked about in the recent speeches she's been giving.

ROSEN: I don't - I don't even know where to start with Hillary Clinton and President Obama spent the first several years cleaning up kind of a Bush mess, so that's something that Jeb Bush is going to have to address, not Hillary Clinton. But I think it's a -

NAVARRO: Yes, yes, because he was in -- he was in Tallahassee dealing with (INAUDIBLE).

ROSEN: This - this issue. Yes, but he's going to have to have opinions on this instead of just attacking hers. So I think what she is going to do, she will not walk away from her tenure as secretary of state. This is a big part of her important experience and what she brings to the table. I think the Benghazi issue is totally separate. You have a bipartisan committee of Senate intelligence committee members who have issued a report saying that Hillary Clinton had absolutely no fault in the Benghazi thing. So if Republicans want to make Benghazi the issue, bring it on. I think if they want to have a serious debate about foreign policy and where we're going and the troubles the world are in, she's going to be in there.

BROWN: OK, we have to end it there. Thank you so much. Hilary Rosen, Ana Navarro, we appreciate it.

ROSEN: OK. Take care.

[12:29:43] BROWN: Well, it could happen any moment. We are on verdict watch for the Aaron Hernandez murder trial and we are live at the courthouse. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)