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Volunteer Deputy Faces Manslaughter Charge; Marco Rubio Cites His Youth As He Announced Candidacy; Kerry: Give Us Time to Get A Deal With Iran; Passenger in Police Shooting Speaks Out. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired April 14, 2015 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:01] ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: CNN obtained the statement Bates gave to investigators after the shooting. As Harris resisted arrest, Bates told investigators he made a quick decision to use his taser. "I remember thinking I have to deploy it rapidly as I still thought there was a strong possibility Harris had a gun." Bates says he meant to use his taser and that he was startled and left in a state of shocking disbelief when he realized he used his gun instead.
Adding to the volatility here, Bates isn't a full-fledged sheriff's deputy. He's a certified volunteer peace officer. Bates is also the CEO of an insurance company and has been a longtime benefactor of the Tulsa Sheriff's Department, donating cars and video equipment.
MAJ. SHANNON CLARK, TULSA CO. SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Deputy Bates met all the criteria on the Council of Law Enforcement Education and Training to be in the role that he was in.
LAVANDERA: But Harris' family questions how Bates could have confused his two weapons, a bright yellow taser and a small .357 revolver. A question we posed to Bates' attorney.
SCOTT WOOD, DEPUTY BATES' ATTORNEY: Your intended behavior slips off track and it's captured by another behavior that might be well more rehearsed or motorized internally than your initial intention.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: You know, Carol, we've had a chance to speak with several experts regarding this idea of what's called slip and capture, which is the reason, the phenomenon that sheriff's officials here and Bates' own attorney have been saying that it was possibly the phenomenon that was been involved, explaining the mistake, but many experts call this idea junk science -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Ed Lavandera reporting live from Tulsa, Oklahoma, this morning.
The family of the man killed, Eric Harris, say they are encouraged that prosecutors have filed a manslaughter against Deputy Bates but can see that's cold comfort. They're questioning the training of that reserved cop and the judgment for him to even be involved in that kind of scuffle. Here's what Harris' brother told us earlier this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDRE HARRIS, BROTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM ERIC HARRIS: There was enough people on top of my brother, knees in his head, to not even have to use a taser for -- for it to be that many people around him, and him go to use a taser, really didn't make any sense. And then with the taser being yellow and on his chest, for him to shoot my brother with a .357 makes no sense to me, and I think it was -- it was overkill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Let's talk more about this with CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Paul Callan. I'm also joined by CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins.
Thanks to both of you for coming in.
OK. So this reserve deputy was 73 years old. Surely his age will enter into this case, Mel.
MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It could but I think what should enter into this case is the fact that this wasn't the first time he was out on a mission like this. This reserve deputy who was a police officer for one year 50 years ago and who is now a benefactor of the police department has been on over 100 ride-alongs with the violent task force.
So this isn't a one-time deal. The state had him on these kinds of missions a lot, and I think that they are going to face a lot of liability.
COSTELLO: But, Paul, the sheriff said that he's gone through extensive training, more training that is required and he was fully qualified to be there.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Three hundred hours of training they say that he's had through the years and he's been on over 100 missions, but you know, I'm -- this is staggering, this epidemic of excessive force that we see around the United States. Isn't it? It's just been an amazing two weeks in terms of what we've seen here.
Now this case, I think while it looks very, very bad, the closer you look at the facts, it doesn't look like a real criminal case to me. I think there's a great case --
COSTELLO: What?
CALLAN: Well, I'll tell you why. I think there's a great case against Tulsa County for allowing the 73-year-old man who doesn't know what he's doing to go out on a mission like this. However, he is never going to be convicted by a jury. He says just before he pulls --
COSTELLO: Even manslaughter charges?
CALLAN: No, even manslaughter charges. Just before he pulls the gun he says taser. He thinks he's pulling a taser. COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's hold up --
CALLAN: It's an accident.
COSTELLO: Let's put up a graphic of the taser and the gun.
CALLAN: It's clearly an accident. Yes.
COSTELLO: Let's just put up a picture of that so everybody can see the difference.
ROBBINS: We have a legal word for that, it's called negligence. So it --
(CROSSTALK)
CALLAN: No. That's a -- that's a civil word actually.
ROBBINS: Listen -- no, if he -- that's not true. Because --
CALLAN: Culpable conduct --
ROBBINS: No. This is second-degree manslaughter.
CALLAN: Yes. Which is culpable conduct.
COSTELLO: OK. So let's focus on this graphic for a second.
CALLAN: In Oklahoma.
COSTELLO: I know the taser is yellow, but it does have a like a handle, I suppose, like a gun. So in the heat of the moment maybe you could understand why this guy got the two weapons confused.
CALLAN: Yes. So it's accident.
COSTELLO: Yes?
CALLAN: Yes.
ROBBINS: Well, I think there's a couple of difference --
CALLAN: You want to send somebody to prison for the rest of -- for probably the rest of their life for an accident?
ROBBINS: Look. There is -- but, see, there's a couple of different issues here. Will a jury actually convict him? I tend to agree with Paul. This is a very difficult case to get a jury to kind of bite on to and want to send a 73-year-old guy who is volunteering his time, who clearly, you know, in his mind made a mistake? That's one issue. But do they have a duty to charge him? Can they make the case out under the law? Absolutely they can.
CALLAN: Entirely different issue, though. I started out by saying no jury would ever convict him.
ROBBINS: But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't put this through the criminal justice system.
COSTELLO: Well, the other disturbing aspect of this, and as you watch the moving video, when that man, Mr. Harris is on the ground, and he's been shot, one of the police officers wrestling with him says, you know, Mr. Harris says, you know, I'm having trouble breathing, I am losing my breath and the officer says, you know, F your breath, which seems -- I mean, he knows he's just been shot.
[09:05:30] CALLAN: It seems utterly and completely disgraceful. But the officers are going to say this guy was -- they thought he was on TCT, he had just sold a gun in an undercover operation. Now have we reached --
ROBBINS: And he ran two blocks.
CALLAN: Have we reached the point where we have to be polite when they're subduing --
COSTELLO: When someone has been shot?
CALLAN: If somebody who's running, who they think has a gun.
COSTELLO: After someone has been shot?
CALLAN: Well, Carol, listen, we all should have good manners about these things, but there's a reality about what happens in the field when you're apprehending somebody who you think is a gun dealer.
ROBBINS: They also know who he is, Paul.
CALLAN: Is a gun dealer. OK.
ROBBINS: They also they know who he is and they know he has a long criminal rap sheet.
CALLAN: So --
ROBBINS: He's running. So I think it's very hard --
CALLAN: I'll let them go on the language here. OK.
ROBBINS: I will, too, on this one.
CALLAN: All right.
ROBBINS: I think it's too easy to take a five-second clip and be like, my gosh, they should have been polite when -- because it sounds horrible, now that you know that he died. Now that --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Now that you know that he was dying. It sounds really sad.
ROBBINS: But I think in the heat of the moment --
CALLAN: That he was shot by somebody who shouldn't have been there in the first place.
ROBBINS: But I think this police officer --
CALLAN: Make no mistake, it's a tragedy, this death, and Tulsa should be sued and the family should be compensated for this death, but whether somebody should go to jail or the cop should be fired, that's a harder question.
COSTELLO: All right. We'll have to leave it there.
Mel, Paul, thanks so much as usual. It was an interesting conversation.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the 2016 race in full swing. Marco Rubio announcing his presidential bid and wasting no time taking a swipe at Hillary Clinton, calling her, quote, "a leader from yesterday."
The latest from the campaign trail, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:10:35] COSTELLO: Hillary Clinton hitting the road. Her campaign now in Iowa set to make its first official stop in just a matter of hours. Clinton will be holding a roundtable with a small group of students and educators at the Kirkwood Community College. Of course CNN will be there to bring that to you live at -- well, we think it'll happen around 2:00 p.m. Eastern.
And like any good road trip, Hillary Clinton has also been making some pit stops. I'm sure you've heard about this. Yesterday she ducked into an Ohio Chipotle, it was Maumee, Ohio, near Toledo. And she ordered a burrito bowl and a sweet drink, and her assistant was standing beside her and absolutely no one recognized her. She's totally incognito. It wasn't until the restaurant manager looked at the security cam video that he realized that Hillary Clinton ordered that burrito bowl at that Maumee Chipotle. Who knew?
Also last night Marco Rubio became the third Republican to enter the race for the White House, touting his youth at Monday's big announcement. The 43-year-old freshman senator framed the upcoming presidential election as a generational choice for Americans and he took no time taking aim at Hillary Clinton, calling her, quote, "a leader from yesterday." But can the rising star turn a compelling family story and a lack of experience into a successful campaign calling card?
Dana Bash is CNN's chief congressional correspondent. She has more for you.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it may not have been exactly what Marco Rubio was going for but being in the room for his announcement yesterday, it was very reminiscent of Barack Obama eight years ago, talking about hope and change and the American dream. And the need to move on to a new generation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: 43-year-old Marco Rubio tried to turn his youth and relative inexperience, compared to older candidates, into a plus.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This election is not just about what laws we're going to pass. This election is a generational choice about what kind of country we will be.
BASH: It's a theme the Florida Republican returned to time and again drawing a contrast with Democratic frontrunner, Hillary Clinton.
RUBIO: Just yesterday, a leader from yesterday --
(CHEERS)
RUBIO: Began a campaign for president by promising to take us back to yesterday.
BASH: But Rubio is also drawing a contrast with a Republican name from the past, Jeb Bush, Florida's former governor and Rubio's long- time mentor. Some mutual friends are upset Rubio isn't waiting his turn, which he addressed head on.
RUBIO: I've heard some suggests that I should step aside and wait my turn.
(CHEERS)
RUBIO: But I cannot.
BASH: In an interview with ABC News, Rubio said his candidacy should not be seen as an insult to Bush.
RUBIO: I'm not running against Jeb Bush and I hope he's not running against me. We are competing for the same job.
BASH: CNN is told Rubio told Bush he's running because no one else has the story to tell he does, a son of Cuban immigrants with the palpable sense of the American dream which shapes his hawkish world view and small government low taxes conservative ideals.
RUBIO: I live in an exceptional country where the son of a bartender and a maid could have the same dreams, and the same future as those who come from power and privilege.
BASH: Still Rubio has to overcome some GOP concerns that his government experience is similar to Barack Obama's --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't pay much attention to the pundits claiming that I need more experience.
BASH: -- when he became president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now traditionally when a candidate announces for president that then move on to barnstorm, all of the early primary states, but Marco Rubio, he isn't doing that. Today he's going back to Washington to his day job because he sits on the Foreign Relations Committee, which, of course, is holding a very important hearing, and perhaps even a vote on the Iran deal -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Dana Bash reporting. Thanks so much.
In just a matter of weeks we'll know if Ben Carson will join Rubio, Clinton and others in the 2016 race. His campaign telling CNN Carson will make a major announcement in Detroit on May 4th. The spokeswoman says no definitive decision has been made yet. But come one, he'll probably announce he's going to run for president in Detroit. Let's not fool ourselves, shall we?
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Secretary of State John Kerry returns to Capitol Hill today to ask Congress not to interfere with complex negotiations on Iran, but will Congress listen? We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: As if the tensions were not high enough over Iran's nuclear program, Russia has introduced a new wrinkle. It says it may go forward to a delivery of a sophisticated missile defense system to Iran. Now, such a system could be used to protect Iran's nuclear facility, making them harder to strike.
The S-300 missile defense system can engage dozens of missiles and aircraft at the same time from a distance of about 155 miles. Russia agreed to sell the system to Iran in 2010 for $800 million but never delivered it.
Secretary of State John Kerry on Capitol Hill this morning to lobby against any legislation that gives Congress oversight of any deal on Iran's nuclear program. But odds seem slim that Kerry will dissuade lawmakers, because there's strong bipartisan support for some type of congressional involvement. The Senate Foreign Relation Committee is poised to review such a bill today, legislation the White House says President Obama will veto in its current forum.
Earlier, the senator who sponsored the bill, Republican Bob Corker of Tennessee, defended the measure in an interview on CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB CORKER (R-TN), SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS CHAIRMAN: It's probably the largest GOP political agreement that will happen during the service of most senators here in the United States Senate.
[09:20:04] And I'm thankful that on a strong, strong bipartisan basis, people believe that this is something that Congress ought to be doing. I'm also thankful that the integrity of this process, it looks like, will absolutely remain in place. And so, I absolutely believe that we are doing the right thing on behalf of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: Athena Jones joins us live from Capitol Hill.
So, Athena, the White House says it will veto any such legislation right now. So, why are Senator Corker and others so intent on passing this legislation?
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, many members of Congress believe it's their responsibility to weigh in on a deal of this importance. As you mentioned, Secretary Kerry was here yesterday meeting with House members, and that was a classified briefing that lasted more than an hour. He arrived just now for another briefing that is set to start in about an hour.
The goal here from the White House, from the administration's part is to avoid having any sort of big debate on the Senate that could spook the negotiators, principally Iran, of course, or give the negotiators the chance or an excuse to kind of back away from this deal. They don't want anything that's going to jeopardize this deal.
Here is what Secretary Kerry said heading into that meeting with House members.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We hope Congress will listen carefully, but also give us the space and the time to be able to complete a very difficult task.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And it doesn't look like Congress is going to give them that space. Secretary Kerry said, look, there is 2 1/2 more months until the end of June to negotiate this, and it's an important time to try to reach a deal. But as you mentioned, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is meeting this afternoon to markup a bill that would require Congress to weigh in on the bill in order to give the president the ability to lift sanctions on Iran.
Two of the key points that are going to be discussed in this markup meeting later on, are the idea of the president having to certify every 90 days that Iran is not sponsoring terrorism anywhere around the world. That's a provision that could be softened. There is an amendment by one senator, Senator Coons, strike that language completely. Democrats argue the terrorism part has nothing to do with the nuclear agreement negotiations.
The other thing that could change in this markup meeting later today is to shorten the time period for Congress's review. Right now, it's at 60 days, and Congress wants 60 days to look into this deal once it's done in June and decide to approve or disapprove of it, and that could be shortened to 30 days. The idea is to try to make some changes that could get more Democrats on board, get them beyond that veto-proof majority of 67 votes to overcome the president's threatened veto. The committee plans to vote on this legislation today unless something
changes. And I'm told by an aide to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that this is a priority for the full Senate. So, you could see the legislation come to the Senate floor very soon, maybe not this week but certainly soon -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. We'll check back. Athena Jones, reporting live for us this morning.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM: a police officer charged with murder, a victim unable to give his side of the story. Now, we are hearing from a man who was with Walter Scott that day.
CNN's Nick Valencia is in South Carolina.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
For the first time publicly, we are hearing from the man that was in the car with Walter Scott right before he was shot and killed. I'm Nick Valencia in North Charleston. We'll tell you what he said right after the break.
You are watching the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:26:55] COSTELLO: And good morning. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Carol Costello.
This morning, new insights into the South Carolina police shooting that has led to a cop being charged with murder. We are now hearing from the passenger inside this car. This is him during the traffic stop just moments after a North Charleston police officer shot and killed his friend who had bolted from the driver's seat.
CNN's Nick Valencia is in North Charleston with more for you this morning.
Good morning.
VALENCIA: Good morning, Carol.
For the first time publicly, we are hearing from the so-called mystery passenger that was in the car with Walter Scott in the moments leading up to his death. In the statement obtained by "The Post-Courier", a local newspaper here in Charleston, Pierre Fulton, his friend, said, quote, "Walter was a dear friend and I miss him every day. Over the past five years, he helped me become a better man and showed me the value of hard work. I will never know why he ran, but I know he didn't deserve to die."
Meanwhile, the community here in North Charleston still healing, still grieving.
Earlier, I spoke to a prominent civil rights professor at the College of Charleston, and he told me about the reaction in the community. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON HALE, ASST. PROFESSOR, COLLEGE OF CHARLESTON: The community would certainly -- the community certainly appreciates that Officer Slager was charged with murder within hours of the release of the video. However, at the same time, you see anger over this because it took a video in order to prompt the murder charge, and without that video, you see this pattern repeating itself of one blaming the victim and dehumanizing the victim and only seeing the official police version as the story that is reported in the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: Meanwhile, also this morning, South Carolina solicitor generally releasing a statement via Facebook saying based on the evidence, at this point, there is not enough to seek the death penalty, though, she has not received the case from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. We should mention that Officer Slager, a week since his arrest, remains behind bars -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Nick Valencia reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
Scott's death is raising questions about some of Officer Slager's previous behavior, previous arrests, including this 2014 traffic stop involving a man named Julius Wilson. Now, Wilson was pulled by three officers, including Officer Slager. He was then pulled from his car and allegedly shot with a stun gun.
Wilson is now suing Officer Slager for using excessive force. On Monday, his attorney released this dash cam video of the incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(INAUDIBLE)
OFFICER: Get out of the car! Get out of the car! Get out of the car!
Get out of the car!
Back up, I'm going to tase. Back up, I'm going to tase.
Taser, taser!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh shit. Oh shit!
OFFICER: Turnover! Turnover or you are going to get hit again!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
