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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Robert Bates Turns Self In Over Tulsa Shooting; New Audio Recordings in South Carolina Shooting; Slager Sued; Clinton's Campaign; Hernandez Jury Deliberation. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired April 14, 2015 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: To shoot a suspect. Bates said nothing as he left, but his attorney gave a brief statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR BATES: Mr. Bates was surrendered today and booked. In light of the charges, he's not going to make a statement. We -- we will defend this in a court of law and that's what we're going to do. And when he has his opportunity to speak at the conclusion of the case, he will do so, OK? Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you fell about them (ph)?
BREWSTER: I feel that they're unwarranted and shouldn't have been brought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Clark (ph), can you talk about how his benevolence has somehow turned out to be something evil?
BREWSTER: Yes, that's -- that's the surprising thing. They've took -- they've taken the fact that this man has been good to the community and has been benevolent to the community and has been a great citizen for our town and made it something bad or sinister and that's the unfortunate thing. That's all we have. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The 73-year-old finds himself on the other side of the law after a police body camera captured the moment he killed Eric Harris. Attorneys for Harris' family are questioning why the CEO of an insurance company, who was 73 years old, who volunteers as a reserve deputy, was working a sensitive and high-risk sting operation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN SMOLEN, HARRIS FAMILY ATTORNEY: It is absolutely mindboggling that you have a wealthy businessman who's been essentially deputized to go play like he's some outlaw. I mean like he's just cleaning up the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: If convicted of second degree manslaughter, Bates could face up to four years in prison. Joining me now to discuss the fallout from this shooting is CNN's Ed Lavandera, live in Tulsa.
First off, Ed, Bates was in and out of jail in just about 30 minutes. Is that normal?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he posted bond. It was a $25,000 bond that he was placed. And we've just also found out, Pamela, that he will make his first court appearance on April 21st. So still some days away from seeing that.
But his attorneys and he still very much has the support of the leadership here at the sheriff's department. And as Mr. Bates walked in to the sheriff's department here to turn himself in, you could tell he seemed very subdued, very kind of sullen as he walked in. He didn't say anything. His attorney spoke briefly on his behalf. But he still has the support of the leadership here at the sheriff's department and his attorneys and the sheriff's department officials here have been saying that they do not believe that prosecutors should have filed criminal charges against him.
But there's also been a great deal of outcry of complaint about just how this case was handled and whether or not Mr. Bates, a 73-year-old reserve deputy, should have been involved in that undercover sting operation to begin with.
Pamela.
BROWN: And, Ed, on the note, reserve officers in Oklahoma are rather unique. My understanding is that they operate with full police power. Do we know what kind of training these reserve cops get, particularly there in Oklahoma?
LAVANDERA: Well, we've gone -- seen some of the records that have been released. I don't think we've seen everything just yet. But there are nearly 300 hours of training that Mr. Bates had to go through to become a certified reserve deputy. And this is a status that he gained. And here in the state of Oklahoma we're told that some of these reserve deputies are depended on in many different kinds of roles and they have, perhaps, more power than in other parts of the country. But, generally, these are the types of officers you see maybe working traffic at a sporting event or something like that.
What is perhaps a little bit more controversial and whether or not is something that's up for debate is, in an undercover sting operation. But here sheriff's officials say that Mr. Bates and even Mr. Bates, by his own admission, we had obtained the statement that he gave to investigators four days after the shooting where he said in that statement that he had been involved in about 100 different operations over the last seven years. So -- and sheriff's officials here say that reserve deputies, many of them, have very high-profile and important roles that they play in these kinds of situations.
Mr. Bates isn't the only one, they say. They have dozens of these types of reserve deputies that can help out the department in many different ways.
BROWN: All right, Ed Lavandera, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
And now turning to the legal view now. Let me bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callen and Mel Robbins.
I first want to start with the manslaughter law, that that would apply in this case, Paul and Mel, and let me read it to you. It says, "every killing of one human being by the act, procurement or culpable negligence of another, which under the provisions of this chapter is not murder nor manslaughter in the first degree nor excusable nor justifiable homicide is manslaughters in the second degree."
OK, Paul, break that down for us. What really sticks out to me is this notion of culpable negligence. What do prosecutors have to prove?
[12:04:52] PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it's a very low standard to prove this charge in Oklahoma. You know, in most places, to prove a negligent homicide, it has to be some act of reckless or gross negligence that's so severe, that's so off the scale that you would have to say that's criminal conduct. But here it's really only that he acted in a way that somebody experienced in the use of weapons and experienced at being a police officer would not normally act, negligence. And that's what they're going to have to prove. In simple terms, they're going to have to prove that this was a very serious accident that should not have happened.
BROWN: And, Mel, on the other side of this, the defense is saying that it was very frantic, that, of course, he accidentally pulled out his gun, rather than his Taser. That he thought that he may have been -- the suspect may have had a gun on him. Do you think that that's a good enough defense in a case like this?
MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, there has been a defense that a lot of officers have used. They cite something and, in fact, the attorneys in this case are really citing it. You're going to hear the words slip and capture. It refers to something that happens neurologically when you're stressed out or when you're overloaded and your brain and what you're focused on slips out of your mind and you capture something else. For those of you at home, perhaps you've driven a stick shift car, then you get into an automatic and you forget you're in the automatic temporarily and you start pretending to drive with a stick shift again, that is an example of slip and capture.
What they're basically going to argue in this is, A, it was a terrible mistake, B, it was excusable, and that's the legal language, because of the stress he was under, because of this slip and capture that can happen in high stress situations and because the gun and the Taser weigh about the same amount. So in the moment, he didn't realize that he had made this mistake.
CALLAN: And, you know, Pam, given the facts of this case, given the fact that it involves a 73-year-old man who I think was ill-trained and probably shouldn't have been on this volunteer force to begin with, there's a good case against Tulsa, Tulsa County, for letting him go out on patrols like this and I think you could sue for money damages there. But they're going to be really hard pressed, I think, to get a conviction in a criminal case to send this guy to jail for what looks like a terrible, terrible, tragic mistake.
ROBBINS: But make no mistake, I think what Paul's talking about is that the jury is likely going to be sympathetic to this guy, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't bring charges. And it doesn't mean that they can't make out the claim. I think they can make out the claim here, but Paul's probably right, the sympathy factor, when you weigh everything, a jury probably won't convict, but they should still go through the process.
CALLAN: Well, a lot of people think --
BROWN: And as -- and as Paul said, it's not just --
CALLAN: Yes.
BROWN: You know, Bates that should take the blame. You're saying, Paul, that the city has some liability in this for bringing him on board in the first place (INAUDIBLE).
CALLAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, you know, if you're going to bring criminal charges, maybe, you know, Tulsa should be indicted for the slip shod way that this operation was run, not this individual.
BROWN: OK, Paul and -- Paul and Mel, we'll see how this plays out. Thank you so much for offering your analysis. And stick around, a lot more to discuss with you.
Up next right here on LEGAL VIEW, more new audio recordings from the South Carolina police shooting. The officers' conversations right after it happened, including what he told his wife.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We have new audio recordings from right after the South Carolina police shooting that left Walter Scott dead in a field and one conversation that Officer Michael Slager is heard laughing about how his adrenaline is pumping and in another conversation Slager explains, presumably to his wife, that he shot someone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: By the time you get home, it'd probably be a good idea to kind of jot down your thoughts of what happened.
OFFICER MICHAEL SLAGER: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: And then once you -- the adrenaline starts pumping and stuff --
SLAGER: It's pumping.
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
SLAGER: Hey, hey, everything's OK, OK? I -- I just shot somebody. Yeah, everything's OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Meantime, South Carolina's solicitor has released a statement saying it appears Slager is not eligible for the death penalty because no aggravating circumstances exist in this case.
And we're also getting new information on the passenger in the car with Walter Scott during the traffic stop that started all of this.
Joining me now from North Charleston, North Carolina -- South Carolina, we should say, is CNN's Nick Valencia.
So, Nick, what is Scott's passenger saying here?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the first time that we've heard from him publicly, Pamela, and he's talking about his friend, how much he misses him. This so-called mystery passenger who, for now, has declined interview requests but did release a statement through his attorney, Pierre Fulton (ph), saying, quote, "Walter was a dear friend and I miss him every day. Over the past five years, he helped me become a better man and showed me the value of hard work. I'll never know why he ran, but I know he didn't deserve to die."
Meanwhile, Officers Slager, it's been a week since he was arrested. He remains behind bars.
BROWN: OK. (INAUDIBLE).
VALENCIA: He remains behind bars and he's being held without bond. Pamela.
BROWN: Nick Valencia, thank you very much.
And Slager is also facing a murder charge for shooting Scott, but that's not his only legal trouble. He is now facing a civil lawsuit for his use of a Taser in this traffic stop in 2014. We're about to see the dash cam video right here. It captures Slager and two other officers trying to get Julius Wilson (ph) out of a car because he was driving with a suspended license.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I'm asking you to step out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm asking you to step out of the car, sir. I'm asking you nicely. Please step out of the car. If you don't step out of the car, I'm going to assist you out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are under arrest. Please step out of the car. Step out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm under arrest, officer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car. Step out of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I being under arrest for, officer?
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Step out of the car.
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car!
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car!
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taser, Taser, Taser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around or you're going to get hit again.
(INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) cuff him. Cuff him (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So let's bring in our panel of experts to discuss this traffic stop. Bringing back in CNN legal analysts Paul Callen and Mel Robbins.
Paul, first to you. You watched that dash cam video. Do you see anything unusual about this stuff?
CALLAN: No, I don't. Frankly, any time a suspect is not being cooperative in the arrest process, and struggling, you know, it's an ugly thing to look at when cops are trying to get the cuffs on. I'm not so sure that this would provide the basis for a lawsuit. He was given many, many opportunities to get out voluntarily and he struggled before he was Tased. So I think, you know, it's easy in retrospect to say, well, it could have been done differently. But I don't think there's a basis of a lawsuit here.
[12:15:21] BROWN: So, Mel, then, you know, Wilson did not file a complaint when the incident occurred and he also pleaded guilty to resisting arrest. Do you think he's just trying to capitalize now?
ROBBINS: Well, you know, Pamela, it's a great question. If we -- this is just the beginning of a number of these that I bet we're going to see because when you have a big, high-profile case, like we do with this shooting in South Carolina, it's going to make people who have had interactions with this officer, A, either feel comfortable coming forward because they think they might be believed, if, in fact, there was some sort of violation of their constitutional rights, or, B, you'll have the alternative, which is anybody that's had an interaction that thinks that they can capitalize on it.
I look at this video. It's awful to watch officers struggling to get somebody to comply with their commands. It's awful to watch them have to Tase somebody. But the truth is, I don't see anything out of bounds here and this one, in my mind, falls into the category of somebody trying to capitalize on it.
But, Pamela, I think this is the first of many of these kinds of things that we're going to be seeing coming up in the future as this case marches forward.
BROWN: And, Paul, in this particular case, could Wilson -- what could his damage be if he done win his suit, how much? Even though you don't see any particular wrong doing here, if he does win, what do you think he could get?
CALLAN: Well, this would be an excessive force case and he could bring it against the individual officer who Tased him. They vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. You get pain and suffering damages for having been Tased. I think you'd probably be talking about maybe a $10,000 or $15,000 award. But the question is, would the officer even have the money to pay it? Would the municipality in -- back him up with liability and a pocket to pay the damages? This is a very iffy lawsuit.
BROWN: OK. Mel and Paul, thank you very much. Stay with us, please.
And up next right here on LEGAL VIEW, she's off and running. Hillary Clinton just drove a thousand miles from New York to Iowa where she's about to make her first official campaign appearance. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:20:49] BROWN: In just about two hours from now, Hillary Clinton gets ready for her first official campaign event. The Clinton road trip, which began Sunday in New York, is pulling into Monticello, Iowa. She'll hold a round table with a very small group of students and educators at the Kirkwood Community College there. And check out these pictures right here. Just a couple of chairs around that table in what looks like an auto shop classroom.
And we have just received this picture of Mrs. Clinton at her first stop in Iowa today, right here. She stopped at a coffee shop ordering a masala chai, a latte and a water with lemon. And she joked that she was going to drink her way across Iowa.
CNN's senior political correspondent Bianna Keilar is live in Monticello, Iowa.
It seems like, Brianna, that this is -- that the Clinton campaign is trying to send a message with this kind of approach, right?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They are. And this is, Pamela, if you were to see a sort of new candidate who Iowa caucus-goers weren't really familiar with, this is the kind of sort of slow launch to a candidacy that they would be doing, a little retail politics, visits to places in small communities. This community of LeClaire is less than 4,000 people. Just meeting people and then, as she did there, she spoke with some people who were in the coffee shop just about what a long, cold winter it's been and she sat down with a few people, two of them college students, one a woman who works at Planned Parenthood, who has a small daughter. So you know that they'll find some common ground to talk about. She'll no doubt talk about the fact that she's a new grandmother.
And then she's coming here. This is a satellite campus of Kirkwood Community College. And this building behind me, this isn't one of the buildings, this is the building. It's the only one. And inside is an auto tech lab. It's a really small space where she is going to have this round table. We counted, there's 22 chairs aside from Hillary Clinton. We expect that will be students. I've even heard there will be some high school students participating who will be 18 by the time election day rolls around. Maybe some faculty in there asking her questions and observing this round table as well.
But it is safe to say that the -- her entourage of both Secret Service and her aides and then, of course, all of the dozens of reporters who will be here are going to greatly outnumber the people who are participating in this event. It's really astounding when you look at someone of her level, and yet here she is at sort of a smaller event and it's very, very purposeful, as you mentioned, Pamela.
BROWN: Yes, it's really setting the tone. All right, Brianna Keilar, we appreciate it. Thank you so much.
And today at 2:15 Eastern Time, Hillary Clinton will hold her first campaign event since her weekend announcement. You can watch that live right here on CNN.
And Republican Marco Rubio is also making it official. The Florida senator declaring his candidacy for president just a day after Clinton announced her bid. The 43-year-old wasted no time in taking a swipe at Clinton Monday night, calling her, quote, "a leader from yesterday."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Well, now the time has come for our generation to lead the way towards a new American century. That is why tonight, grounded by the lessons of our history, but inspired by the promise of our future, I announce my candidacy for president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: The son of Cuban immigrants, Rubio rode the Tea Party wave to Washington just five years ago. He is now the third Republican to formally enter the race after Senators Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.
And you can hear more from Marco Rubio today at 4:00 Eastern. He'll talk with Jake Tapper on "The Lead" right here on CNN.
[12:24:23] Up next, 30 hours and counting in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. Does a lengthy deliberation raise the odds of an acquittal? We could be days or maybe just minutes away from a verdict and we are live at the courthouse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are now six days into jury deliberations in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial. More than 30 hours and jurors still do not have a verdict. Hernandez is charged in the murder of Odin Lloyd in June of 2013, the summer before his fourth season with the New England Patriots. Perhaps one of the biggest challenges for the jury, getting over his celebrity status.
And if the lengthy deliberation time in this high profile case seems unusual, it really isn't. let's put this into perspective here. Look at how the jury deliberated in these cases. In the Scott Peterson murder trial, the jury deliberated for seven days. He was convicted of first degree and second degree murder for killing his wife and unborn child. And the jury in Charles Manson's trial took 10 days before finding all of the defendants guilty. For Robert Blake, a lengthy deliberation meant an acquittal. After 35 hours of deliberation, stretching out over nine days, Blake was cleared of first-degree murder in his wife's death.
The jury is certainly taking its time on Hernandez' case and we wonder, how will it translate when it comes to a verdict. Our Susan Candiotti joins me now from the -- outside the courthouse in Fall River, Massachusetts, and back with me in New York, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and CNN commentator Mel Robbins. Great to have you all with us.
Susan, I'm going to start with you here. Does Hernandez's celebrity status, do you think, seem to have an impact on the jury?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela.
Well, it's certainly hard to say. I will tell you this. As I watched the jurors come in and out of the courtroom during deliberations, they don't look at Aaron Hernandez. But then again, they have done the very same thing, not look at him when they come in and out of the courtroom during trial testimony. So you can read into that what you will.
[12:29:28] But as the court officers are formally addressing them, I do see some jurors glancing over at him and at the victim's family as well, sitting on the opposite side of the courtroom.
