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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Missing: "Reserve Deputy's" Training Records; Feds: National Guardsmen Busted in Weapons Sting; Man Flies Into Protected Airspace Near U.S. Capitol. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 16, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:08] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye, in today for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We begin with breaking news in the Tulsa police shooting that could change the whole dynamic of this story. Serious questions about his training, allegations of a coverup and now falsified records. Top officials are denying it all, but the more we learn about that deadly police shooting in Tulsa, the worse it looks for the sheriff's department there.

Amazingly, it looks something like this. If you want to carry a gun and a badge in Tulsa, you can. If you're really rich, donate tons of money to the police force and if you're close, personal friends with the sheriff, maybe you won't even need a whole lot of training. That is the picture coming into focus in a Tulsa newspaper about this man, Robert Bates, the so-called reserve deputy who shot a man dead in Tulsa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUN SHOT)

ROBERT BATES, TULSA RESERVE DEPUTY: I shot him. I'm sorry.

ERIC HARRIS, SHOT BY ROBERT BATES: He shot me! He shot me!

(YELLING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop fighting!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: He called it a huge mistake, that he grabbed his gun instead of his Taser. Two weapons that he is supposed to be well- trained on. Well, here's another problem and it is a big one. Nobody can find any paperwork that shows Bates was trained to the department's standard, or had any business being out there with a gun and a badge.

CNN talked to reporters who are closely covering this story in Tulsa and they say that they've asked for those training records and have gotten nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIVA BRANSTETTER, REPORTER, TULSA WORLD: You would think the sheriff's office, if, in fact, there has been -- there has been no pressure applied and no falsification of records that they would be forthcoming with these documents. We certainly hope they are. We've asked for them and they said they don't believe they're public records. There are hundreds of hours that may have been falsified. At least three supervisors that our sources said were transferred, were disciplined because they refused to sign off on training that Bates never received, including weapons training.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: I want to talk to Clark Brewster right now. He is the attorney for Robert Bates, the man who pulled the trigger and says he mistakenly killed Eric Harris two weeks ago in Tulsa.

Clark, nice to see you. Those reporters can't find detailed records that your client is trained and qualified to be a reserve deputy. Why can't they find those records and is he trained and qualified?

CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT BATES: I don't know why they couldn't find the records. I don't know their inability or what they're asking. Mr. Bates is well-trained. He was trained over virtually hundreds of hours. He's CLEET-certified by an independent agency that certifies officers. His training records would be available for review, usually in a civil case after discovery is provided. Perhaps the (INAUDIBLE) request that was made, I'm not sure how it was made but their level of frustration, I think, is allowing them to draw conclusions that aren't accurate.

KAYE: You say he's well-trained and he's received hundreds of hours of training, but there is a bit of a discrepancy here because the sheriff has said that he received 300 hours of training, but the "Tulsa World" paper is reporting that 480 hours is actually required to be this advanced reserve deputy. Which one is it?

BREWSTER: Well, the fact that the "Tulsa World" makes that statement does not lend credibility to the fact that that is provision of the law. I will tell you that, the sources, it's interesting that "Tulsa World" did not disclose this representing. The plaintiff's lawyers representing the family, in this case, making a civil demand represent officers that were terminated by the department in wrongful termination cases. Hold on. So, their sources are their clients. One was terminated for stealing records from the sheriff's office years ago. One was terminated for improper conduct. He has -- since then has committed a murder, is being held on murder charges. Those are the sources.

KAYE: That may be true. But what I'm curious, though, is do you know how many hours your client actually has in terms of training?

BREWSTER: I don't know exactly the amount of hours. I know his training is extensive. It was in Dallas, he's been in Washington, D.C., training. He was in Florida training. He's had a lot of training hours. But keep in mind the position he held. It was mostly working on traffic patrol or, you know, containment officer blocks from the scene, making notes, bringing the camera to the scene or the fingerprint kits. He wasn't a hands-on use of force person. He was a backup person. His training is extensive and certainly adequate.

KAYE: So, let me play this sound for you from -- this is a comment from a news conference. It's Tulsa county officials doubling down, really, on their assertion that your client, Mr. Bates, is more than qualified an in fact, exceeded the minimum requirements. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:10] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) for failure to sign off on his training to prove his training.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not to my knowledge, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So there's never been any concern about his training?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not that I'm aware of, no. He has been trained.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he has 300 hours or almost 300 hours, including accredited training and state statute requires 25 hours of continuing education per year. So, he is well in excess of what you would anticipate someone would have that was meeting minimum requirements.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But no one has ever expressed concerns about his ability or his training in the sheriff's office?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never to me. In fact, just the opposite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: So, let me ask you this. Based on what they were saying there. The newspaper in Tulsa is saying that at least three police supervisors were disciplined because they wouldn't go along with fudging your client's training record. What have you heard to support or shoot down that report?

BREWSTER: That the sources are plaintiffs in a lawsuit for wrongful termination. One based upon age, one based upon falsifying records and stealing records. So those were the sources. The sources that were terminated by the department are the sources that are claiming that there's been some kind of falsification of records. It's -- they're not credible.

KAYE: Let me ask you about - BREWSTER: Randi, let me ask you this. Have you ever seen one of

these videos where the person that did, felt that he made a mistake, immediately accepted responsibility and was at the scene of a violent confrontation, owned it, stepped up and never backed away, was totally transparent? That's the kind of man we're talking about. So --

KAYE: I have seen that before in the Bart shooting many years ago when the officer was on the platform there and shot that man, thought he was grabbing his Taser and grabbed his gun. Apologized immediately, said oh my god immediately.

BREWSTER: Randi, your lead-in is that you can be a police officer if you pay money. There are 128 reserve officers. Many of those don't have the financial ability to support the sheriff's office, the Tulsa police and the community like Mr. Bates has. How does that make him bad? It's a complete false premise that somehow his willingness to buy a vest for the police and cameras for the department somehow puts him in a position that he shouldn't have been in. He was serving his community.

KAYE: I don't think that's what makes this bad. It would be whether or not he got special treatment because of that.

BREWSTER: What's a special treatment?

KAYE: It's not his generosity isn't -- We don't know. That's what we're asking you about. If you could clear up for me -- if you can clear this up for me, please. Your client's relationship with the sheriff, Stanley Glands, how long have the two been friends? How long have they known each other?

BREWSTER: I haven't asked. But I think it's been many years of friendship and support. But, also, the Tulsa Police Department, also the United Way, also local schools. I mean, this guy has been a giver his whole life. It's not just the sheriff that he's friends with or that he supports. He bought flack jackets, he helped support a new task force for the department. He bought cars for them. And then from time to time, he volunteers his time. It's usually in a lesser role like crowd patrol or backup blocks from the scene like in this instance. He didn't go on the scene and take somebody down. This man ran two blocks. I mean, your story is so false, but I'm saying built on false pre premise. If you care about the truth then you look at what actually happened and who this man is.

KAYE: Sir, that's why we invited you on so we could ask you some questions about this.

BREWSTER: Okay. I'm trying to do that.

KAYE: Let me ask you, if this is a reasonable mistake, can somebody make an honest mistake and still have it be considered negligent behavior?

BREWSTER: Negligence is a civil standard. If you're going to prosecute somebody where you put them in the penitentiary, there has to be some culpable mens rae, in other words, beyond negligence. The Oklahoma's case law is clear on that and the jury instruction is clear on that.

KAYE: All right --

BREWSTER: I mean, you can make a mistake.

KAYE: Go on.

BREWSTER: Listen, I don't mean to minimize the loss. And the first thing that Mr. Bates said to me was, what can I do for this family? That's where his heart is. It always has been. So, this is not a man that ran from responsibility, that denied his involvement in anyway. They've been completely transparent. He's been ganged by this plaintiff's law firm that represents people that have been terminated in the past. That's your source.

KAYE: We will leave it there. Clark Brewster, I appreciate your time and your honesty with us. Thank you.

[12:10:03] BREWSTER: You're welcome.

KAYE: Up next, it is probably a bad idea to try to sell assault weapons and ammo to a Mexican drug cartel, especially if you're in the U.S. military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Two active Army National Guardsmen in San Diego are facing federal charges for allegedly trying to sell guns, ammunition and body armor to a Mexican drug cartel. The two men are expected to appear in federal court later this afternoon. They're accused of making dozens of sales to informants working for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms.

CNN's Evan Perez is following this story closely for us.

So Evan, were these weapons owned by the U.S. government?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Randi, the firearms were not owned by the government, they were actually bought on the streets by these two soldiers and then they were sold to undercover agents who were part of this ATF sting. But there were thousands of rounds of ammunition that were stolen from the -- allegedly stolen from the armory there in San Diego and allegedly these two soldiers tried to - sold them still in the crates and in the boxes that they came in. it's kind of remarkable that they were trying to do that. Their names are Jaime Casillas, he's 22 years old, and Andrew Reyes, 24 years old. And yesterday when they were arrested, Casillas told investigators that it was all Reyes' fault. So they're going to be appearing in court today in San Diego and we'll see where this case goes.

KAYE: Give me an idea of what kind of weapons they were trying to sell.

PEREZ: There was quite an arsenal. There were about - at least seven firearms, including four AR-15 style rifles and there was some high-capacity magazines. There was, again, over 2,000 rounds of ammunition. Right there you see 24 military-grade body armor vests. This is the kind of things that the cartels prize. According to the complaint that was filed in court, these men were told by the undercover agents that this stuff was going to go across the border to Mexican drug cartels and they didn't care.

[12:15:20] KAYE: Fascinating case. Evan Perez, thank you so much.

Up next, he was already on the Secret Service's radar and even warned the media that he was headed to the Capitol. So how did a Florida mailman manage to fly his one-man gyrocopter through some of the most restricted airspace on the planet without getting shot down?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back. A Florida postal worker will make his first court appearance in less than an hour on federal charges for landing his tiny aircraft on the Capitol lawn, sending Washington into a tizzy. Doug Hughes claims he carried out the brazen act to make a bold statement about the corrupting influence of money in politics. It was certainly a bizarre incident that riveted the city and sent the U.S. Capitol into lockdown for part of the day. The "Tampa Bay Times" first identified Hughes because he told them about his plans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG HUGHES, LANDED ON CAPITOL LAWN: I'm going to violate the no- fly zone, nonviolently and intend for nobody to get hurt and I'm going to land on the Capitol Mall in front of the Capitol building. I'm going to have 535 letters strapped to the landing gear in boxes and those letters are going to be addressed to every member of Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:20:13] KAYE: The unauthorized flight is raising serious questions about the security of the airspace above Washington and the FAA is now investigating this stunt.

Joining me to talk about this unusual protest is CNN senior media correspondent Brian Stelter and from Washington, Ben Montgomery, the "Tampa Bay Times" writer who actually broke this story.

Ben, to you first on this one. Did the "Tampa Bay Times" actually report this stunt to authorities?

BEN MONTGOMERY, STAFF WRITER, TAMPA BAY TIMES: No, the authorities knew about it a year in advance. They interviewed Doug Hughes twice, interviewed a colleague who knew about the plan. He was on their radar.

KAYE: The Secret Service says that they were not aware of this. Does that --

MONTGOMERY: They said last night they were very well aware of it and they investigated fully in October of 2013.

KAYE: But you personally hadn't made authorities aware?

MONTGOMERY: No.

KAYE: Okay. Just want to be clear on that. Did the postal worker -- did he expect to actually get shot? What did he tell you he was actually expecting on this day?

MONTGOMERY: He has been thinking about this for two and a half years. He imagined every possible scenario. Getting shot, getting blown out of the sky by the wind from a down thrust of a helicopter, being forced down in other ways, being escorted all the way in by a Blackhawk. He thought of a million scenarios and each one he sort of came to terms with. He said, whatever happens, happens, and this is my mission. I'm going to do it.

KAYE: Brian, let me bring you in here. I mean, what duty does the press have in a situation like this to call 911 or to report it to authorities?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think viewers at home probably have a different opinion than many journalists do on this. Viewers at home might be thinking to themselves, if you're a reporter and you're standing with someone or know about someone that is about to commit a potential crime, you should call 911 and let authorities know. A lot of journalists would say, however, your job is to be an observer, not to be a participant, unless absolutely necessary. There are times where journalists do need to make that 911 call.

What I've heard Ben say, and maybe he'll tell us here, is that he really, truly believed that this man posed no threat. That there was a plan to land on the lawn, not to crash into anybody and this man, Doug Hughes, was very clear that he was nonviolent. He said that over and over again. This is a complicated one. Journalists have been debating it for the last 23 hours ever since Ben's story went online here.

There are other cases like this with journalists, as well. If you're following migrants crossing a border illegally, what is your duty as a journalist? I think I would say it's your duty just to observe and report. But, again, others would say, perhaps, you're supposed to call it in.

KAYE: Ben, do you want to respond to that? Did you believe that he was nonviolent?

MONTGOMERY: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I spent lots and lots of time with Doug and got the sense that this was a man who wouldn't hurt a soul. He had a point to make about campaign finance reform and it's interesting, it's been sidetracked and it's become a media/ethics question and a security question. This was a guy who did exactly to a tee what he planned. He didn't hurt anybody. He got the media's attention. He sent a message, you know, however short-lived it was, that I'm doing this because we've got corruption in government because of money and campaigns. STELTER: It's interesting. He said to you, Ben, no sane person

would do this. On the other hand, seems like a pretty smart guy to have planned this for years, to have driven up to Pennsylvania, to have known how to do this. Yet, for a smart guy, he should have maybe perhaps known that security concerns -- that the story would become about security and not about campaign finance reform, like he wanted it to be. It's just an interesting sort of tension in this story because he was trying to make these points about the corrupting influence of money in politics and yet the moment he landed on the lawn, you knew the story was about security.

KAYE: Absolutely.

MONTGOMERY: He said -- I said why, Doug, why this? Why are you doing this in this fashion? Why not some other form of protest? He said, Ben, do you remember the guy who lit himself on fire in front of the White House two years ago? And I said, no. Did that happen? And sure enough, turned to Google, a man committed suicide by lighting himself on fire in front of the White House. This garnered attention way more than a crazy, hard to believe act like that. This got the attention. Here we are 23 hours later talking about it.

STELTER: It will be debated in journalism classes, this issue of what extent we do need to let authorities know. I would say, not in this case, if there is a more clear-cut case where it does appear to be a terrorist plot and not a civil act of disobedience, then yes, then that line is very different. For a journalist, if you have some sort of advanced knowledge of an actual threat against the population, but then again, some people would say this could have gone awry.

KAYE: Absolutely.

MONTGOMERY: What made us comfortable in the end was the idea that the Secret Service was aware of this a year in advance, that the authorities know. Do we have a job to step in and try to -- what if I call the police and the police shoot him out of the sky? Then his death is on me.

[12:25:12] KAYE: You've got a point there. Ben Montgomery, Brian Stelter, nice to see you both. Thank you.

MONTGOMERY: Thanks, guys.

KAYE: Coming up, Aaron Hernandez says the jury got it wrong, he didn't do it. His full reaction to the verdict and his first full day in his new home, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back, everyone. Right now Aaron Hernandez is being processed in a facility, in a prison, just miles from where he used to play with the New England Patriots. Convicted of first degree murder, sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. It is a stark difference from his NFL life, for sure, when he was enjoying a five-year, $40 million contract. Of course, he had a beautiful home in North Attleborough, Massachusetts, a man cave with a huge TV and a pool table, but his man cave days are over. His permanent home, while shiny and clean, is also considered a very dangerous prison.

Susan Candiotti now looks at the case and his reaction to the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "They got it wrong." Aaron Hernandez's words during his transfer to a state prison Wednesday. That prison close to the stadium where he once played as a New England Patriot. A law enforcement source saying Hernandez telling his jailers, "I didn't do it," hours after being sentenced to life without parole.

[12:30:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of murder in the first degree.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Hernandez grim-faced as he heard the verdict, with his mother and fiance in tears and just feet away from the family