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Iraqis Claim Former Right Hand Man of Saddam Hussein Killed in Raid; Dr. Oz Under Fire; Aaron Hernandez Jurors Speak Out; Oklahoma Deputy Apologizes. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 17, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Can I just -- let me ask you about that suicide bomb attack.

What is ISIS saying, and -- and are all U.S. staff safe and accounted for? Do you know?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, ISIS has claimed responsibility, Brooke, for this explosion, actually two explosions that took place at 5:50 local time in Irbil in the Kurdish part of Northern Iraq.

Now, according to Kurdish security sources, first, there was an IED that went off just up the street from the U.S. Consulate. And then moments later, a car sped in the direction of the consulate. Security personnel in the area fired back. It exploded. It killed three people.

And it wounded five others, all of them civilians. Now, we understand that none of the guards at the U.S. Consulate were injured, and all U.S. personnel at the consulate are safe and accounted for.

But it does represent something of a dramatic security breakdown in a part of Iraq that, until now, has been relatively secure -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So that is Irbil then. Just south of there, another operation in Tikrit. Let's talk about that, this operation by Iraqi security forces killing the top leader we just referenced here.

What was he doing there? What has he been doing? And do you know of any ties to ISIS?

WEDEMAN: Well, this is Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, an old right-hand man of Saddam Hussein.

According to Iraqi officials, there was an operation that appears to include both Iraqi military and these paramilitary Shiite forces. They somehow hit a convoy in which Ibrahim al-Douri was traveling. It's not confirmed at this point if this is indeed him.

In the past, we have gotten reports that he's been killed and he's reappeared. So his DNA is going to be sent to Baghdad to be checked. Now, this was a man who has evaded first the U.S. and then Baghdad, Iraqi forces from 2003 until today, perhaps. And he had very close ties with ISIS, although he was the head of his own Sufi military organization that functioned in that area.

He's a man who does have ties with ISIS, has cooperated and worked with them, but we understand from observers and analysts that ties between his group and ISIS have been -- becoming a little less smooth in recent months -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Had been fraying. That's what I had heard. As so we await the DNA test results, Colonel, many of the ISF defectors who went on to actually join is, you know, in the very beginning were former Saddam Hussein cronies. How would that factor into al-Douri's ability to make friends with them?

(CROSSTALK)

COL. PETER MANSOOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, he was probably leading the charge in uniting the two groups. We had kicked the Baathists and army of Saddam Hussein out of Iraq, at least those that wouldn't reconcile with the new regime. And then during the surge of 2007, 2008, we defeated most of al Qaeda in Iraq and kicked it across the border as well.

And in Syria, they joined together. They realized that the enemy of my enemy is my temporary friend at least. What al-Douri brought to ISIS was a real sense of strategy. You could sense that last year as they went first into Anbar province, and then they took Mosul, and then they headed down to Baghdad, that there was real -- a real sense of strategy and a plan behind what they were doing.

And I think that's what al-Douri brought to the table. And that's what the Iraqis have now taken off the table with this raid.

BALDWIN: That's interesting when you talk about the shared strategy because as Ben was just reporting, from observers, really though also the frayed ties between him and ISIS. And I'm also hearing that he didn't actually believe -- the endgame for ISIS is this caliphate. Right? But apparently al-Douri didn't believe that would happen or didn't believe in that.

If he's working alongside these militants, what do you think his -- what was he fighting for, Colonel?

MANSOOR: Oh, he wanted Iraq. You can't have a caliphate and have an independent Iraqi state occupying the same ground. That's why the alliance was destined to break down.

But it was strong at the beginning when they were fighting. And then as soon as they had something to control, you can see it fraying at the edges and more and more as they're suffering now setbacks on the battlefield. I think this was inevitable that they would fight together and then they would fall apart over who was going to control what.

BALDWIN: Colonel Peter Mansoor and Ben Wedeman, thank you both very much. [15:05:05]

You saw him apologize on scene. Now Robert Bates has apologized on national television for killing a man after he says he confused his gun for his Taser. Today, the Oklahoma volunteer deputy who's been charged with manslaughter broke his silence, speaking to NBC.

At one point, the 73-year-old insurance executive demonstrated how actually exactly he was carrying his weapons during this undercover sting operation in which he says he accidentally killed 44-year-old father Eric Harris. Harris ran from these undercover officers, who they say he sold them illegal weapons and drugs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BATES, DEFENDANT: First and foremost, let me apologize to the family of Eric Harris. You know, this is the second worst thing that's ever happened to me -- or first -- ever happened to me in my life. I have had cancer a number of years ago. I didn't think I was going to get there.

Luckily, I was able to go to a hospital where I had hours of surgery. I rate this as number one on my list of things in my life that I regret.

My Taser is right here on the front tucked in a protective vest. My gun itself is on my side, normally to the rear. This has happened a number of times around the country. I have read about it in the past. I thought to myself, after reading several cases, I don't understand how this can happen. You must believe me. It can happen to anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to Ed Lavandera. He's covering this for us from Tulsa.

Ed, he also -- he talked about a lot this morning, but he also responded to these allegations according to sources from "Tulsa World" newspaper that they'd falsified some of his training, some of those reports. How did he respond to that?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the part of the story that has been really under the most intense scrutiny over the last couple of days.

And it is this question of whether or not Robert Bates had the proper training to be out there or if that was documented. He was asked about that training, whether he had gone through it. And Mr. Bates says that he is -- was not only trained and properly trained, but he has the proof of that as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BATES: That is not correct. I have a written piece of paper that a Mr. Warren Crittenden, now in jail for first-degree murder 40 miles east of here in signed off to say I had done a good job. MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": Without getting off on a

tangent, you did the training and can prove that you were certified?

BATES: That is absolutely the truth. I have it in writing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: All right, Brooke. Here's where things kind of break down. We have requested -- we requested more than a week ago the full personnel file for Mr. Bates. We were told by an attorney for the sheriff's department that that could not be released for investigatory reasons.

The sheriff's department did release a long list of the different course and training courses that Mr. Bates had gone through over the last seven years. But that does not include the field training records and who signed off on all of that. On top of all of that, we had statements from the sheriff, his only public comments he made to a radio station just a couple days ago, when he did -- he acknowledged some of the gun certification records might have already been lost.

It was taken by a former sheriff's deputy employee that was the instructor for that gun certification. That deputy has moved on to another job. They say they're trying to get in touch with her. The reporters who broke this story with "The Tulsa World" newspaper say a lot this could be cleared up if these records would just be produced.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIVA BRANSTETTER, "TULSA WORLD": This can be cleared up very simply by the sheriffs office producing the records or producing the two supervisors who are still employed who our sources say were pressured to sign off on his training and refused and were transferred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: , So Brooke, the scrutiny around these records and what it all means and what exactly is all there is still very much up in the air as far as we're concerned.

BALDWIN: Got to get those records. That'll answer a lot of questions either way. Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.

Next, the jurors in the Aaron Hernandez trial tell CNN's Anderson Cooper the NFL star's behavior in the courtroom impacted the decision to convict, but the revelations do not stop there.

Plus, the parents of Martin Richard, the youngest victim of the Boston bombings, asked the jury in this incredibly powerful piece in "The Boston Globe" this morning not to let their son's killer be put to death. We have more of that.

And Dr. Oz under fire by some of his fellow doctors. There is a call to have him fired from the university where he works. We will tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:14]

BALDWIN: Two highly emotional murder trials, two dedicated jurors, juries. Now we have the conviction in both the murder trial of ex-NFL star Aaron Hernandez and the trial of Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

In both of these cases, you have juries who sat through much of harrowing testimony, and in the case of Tsarnaev, they head back to court next Tuesday to decide whether he lives or dies.

Meantime, all 12 jurors in the Aaron Hernandez trial just sat down with Anderson Cooper. They talked about a lot of things. They talked about the silent relationship that's formed inside this courtroom between these jurors and a defendant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It's interesting. I notice a couple of you have called him Aaron. And I think people who haven't been on a jury don't understand the intimacy that exists in a courtroom, where somebody is sitting, you know, a couple of feet away from you, and...

[15:15:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For three months every day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. That is right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

COOPER: Did you look at him a lot? Did he look at you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

ROSALIE OLIVER, HERNANDEZ TRIAL JUROR: I did.

COOPER: You did?

OLIVER: Oh, yes. One time, we made contact and he actually nodded to me at one time.

And it is hard. You come in that room every day and you see this person. And it's hard to come to that decision at the end, because three months with him, it is almost like you -- they're part of you, and then all of a sudden, now you have got to make that decision to either put him away or let him go. It is very hard.

SEAN TRAVERS, HERNANDEZ TRIAL JUROR: At the end of the day, though, you make sure that you understand that you didn't choose to make those decisions. You were just asked to decide if they were relevant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me more to talk about this, Larry Seidlin. He was the judge during the Anna Nicole Smith custody hearing. Judge, to me, hearing that juror say it's almost like they're part of

you, Aaron Hernandez, sitting so closely, locking eyes. Some of them were frightened by him. Some felt sorry for him. What is that like for juries, especially this one? For three months, it's like this courtroom becomes a home away from home.

LARRY SEIDLIN, FORMER BROWARD COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE: It's overwhelming. It consumes your everyday activity. They're sitting with one another. They go to the bathroom that they share in the jury room. They're eating lunch together. They're eating dinner together.

And they're having an experience that will affect many people and many families, and then they have to make the ultimate decision, whether to place this young boy, Hernandez, in jail for the rest of his life. It feels more comfortable when it's a team playing and it's not an individual, so they do it as a team.

And they did it here. They were thoughtful. They were thorough. And they did a fine job.

BALDWIN: Let's go from one case in Massachusetts to another, this Boston bombing trial. The penalty phase for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev starts Tuesday. I know that this morning there was an incredibly powerful opinion piece in "The Boston Globe" in which you hear from the parents of Martin Richard, who was killed, the youngest victim. It was the notion over to put this man, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, to death or not.

Let me read part of this. This is from the parents. "We understand all too well the heinousness and brutality of the crimes committed. We were there. We lived it. The defendant murdered our 8-year-old son, maimed our 7-year-old daughter, and stole part of our soul. We know that the government has its reasons for seeking the death penalty, but the continued pursuit of that punishment could bring years of appeals and prolonged reliving the most painful day of our lives."

We heard from Martin Richard's father, testifying previously. We could hear from the mother in this next phase. I'm just wondering, just knowing juries as you do, and how emotional this case has been for the city of Boston, how will that sit with the jurors?

SEIDLIN: I think the jurors recognize the fact that you could be anti-capital punishment, but we're in a new playing field here.

This is an act of terror. This is something that is new for the American mind. You have people that will kill and destroy with zero motive. Hernandez, the motive was weak, the reason he did a killing. But, here, this defendant placed bombs behind the family where there were children standing.

And he put that bomb pack on his back knowing that he could lose his life, that that bomb can go off. This guy has no value of life.

BALDWIN: It was a horrible, heinous crime. But to hear the words from these parents who have lived this, to say, please, you know, no to the death penalty, because, with the appeals process, they will be reinjured emotionally for years.

SEIDLIN: Well, we're a compassionate society. But we can't look like we're soft on terrorism in America. We can't look like we're soft. We have to use the full thrust of the law in this case. This guy has to get the ultimate hammer. He has to be placed to death.

There's no mitigation here. There's no reason why taxpayers should spend $150,000 a year keeping this guy in a federal prison. Even though he will go to one of the worst prisons in America, the most maximum federal prison, he has no right to still be among us.

BALDWIN: As we mentioned, the next phase of this whole trial starts Tuesday. We will be there covering it. Judge Larry Seidlin, thank you so much.

SEIDLIN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, inside the controversial land of Dr. Oz. His own medical peers now calling on him to be fired. And this afternoon, Dr. Oz is responding. We will talk with a health reporter who's been tracking his career for years.

[15:20:07]

And does the punishment fit punishment fit the crime? Michael Smerconish joins me to discuss this ESPN reporter whose unbelievable berating of this tow truck employee that makes you gasp.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in the news, sweetheart. I will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sue this place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That's fine. And I will play your video, so be careful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Dr. Oz, Dr. Oz has a fight on his hands. He may be seen as America's doctor, but there's a group of physicians around the country who want Columbia University to fire him from its medical school facility. None of them is from Columbia, but they wrote a letter to the university laying out their complaints.

The list includes what his critics see as Dr. Oz's disdain for science to his opposition to genetically modified foods. Quote. Ah, let's see here. I have got this for you. "Worst of all, he's manifested an egregious lack of integrity by promoting quack treatments and cures in the interest of personal financial gain."

[15:25:14]

Dr. Oz's green coffee bean pitch, perhaps you have seen it, it's definitely caught the attention of the Federal Trade Commission, and not in a good way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MEHMET OZ, "THE DR. OZ SHOW": This little bean has scientists saying they found a magic weight loss cure for every body type.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Dr. Oz's likeness appears on health products on TV, in magazines, online.

And just a short time ago, he released a statement to CNN in response to his critics' letter. This is what Dr. Oz says: "I bring the public information that will help them on their path to be their best selves. We provide multiple points of view, including main, which is offered without conflict of interest. That doesn't sit well with certain agendas, which distort the facts. For example, I do not claim that GMO foods are dangerous, but believe they should be labeled like they are in most countries around the world."

Julia Belluz, let me bring you in. You're a health reporter at VOX.com. You have written what really many consider the definitive piece on Dr. Oz.

Welcome to you, first of all. And you have been following him since 2011. So in your opinion, who is he? Is he this Ivy League-educated surgeon on the faculty at Columbia, or is he this quack who pushes snake oil on TV?

Yes, thanks for having me, Brooke.

JULIA BELLUZ, VOX.COM: I think that's what makes him so fascinating. He's both.

He's this highly credentialed cardiothoracic surgeon. For the most recent piece I wrote at VOX, I dug into his past and found that he has multiple patents to his name for devices and methods relating to very complicated heart surgeries. I spoke to a bunch of his colleagues who said this guy is an incredible surgeon who's so talented and so efficient in the operating room, and so he has this really robust background as a doctor and a scientist and researcher.

And at the same time, you know, he goes on TV talking about how you can bust your belly fat and boost your metabolism and do it with magic and miracle supplements.

BALDWIN: As you point out, a number of his critics are standing by him. We mentioned the FTC. And also the Senate admonished him. Here's an exchange when he was actually called in front of the Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: In January, you called Forskolin -- quote -- "lightning in a bottle." I don't get why you need to say this stuff because you know it's not true. So why, when you have this amazing megaphone and this amazing ability to communicate, why would you cheapen your show by saying things like that?

OZ: I actually do personally believe in the items that I talk about in the show. I passionately study them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Senator McCaskill saying, why cheapen the show?

Has his show evolved into more promotion than health advice over the years?

BELLUZ: Yes, so one thing that's interesting about the most recent letter from the doctors to Columbia is that it is a long time coming. We have seen these criticisms as far back as 2011, 2010, when I started to look into him. There were already scientists and doctors and bloggers speaking out against him.

I had physicians I knew come to me and say, you know, I have patients who come into my clinic on like shopping carts full of supplements based on something that Dr. Oz said on his TV show. I had my mom calling me what felt like every week saying, you know, did you get your thyroid level checked? Did you check your vitamin D?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Because she was listening to Dr. Oz.

BELLUZ: Exactly. Yes. So he has this tremendous reach. Part of the tragedy of him is that he could have really helped people navigate what is this very complex and confusing area in medicine.

And, yet, he's gone down this path of promoting things that completely deviate, that aren't backed by scientific evidence at all.

BALDWIN: Well, Columbia is backing him, even though some people want him off the faculty. This is what Columbia says. "Columbia is committed to the principle of academic freedom and to upholding faculty members' freedom of expression for statements they make in public discussion."

Based on everything you know, what did does your gut tell you? Do you think he stays on?

BELLUZ: I think so. He's a tenured professor. They're essentially saying this is academic freedom. He has the right to promote and say whatever he wants on the air.

I think John Oliver summed it up really well. He said, you know, he's not going on air just saying, you know, I'm some guy named Mehmet. He's going on air as Dr. Oz. And that's where things get really confusing for the people watching and for his audiences who follow his advice.

BALDWIN: Julia Belluz, VOX.com, thank you so much.

BELLUZ: Thank you. BALDWIN: Still ahead, she played a commander in chief on TV. Actress

Geena Davis will be here, her thoughts on Hillary Clinton running for president and how the media treats women -- straight ahead.

Also, it is something to watch. This ESPN reporter caught on this surveillance camera berating a tow truck employee. Now, she has apologized. She's been suspended for a week. But is that enough? We're going to talk about this with Michael Smerconish next.