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New Richmond Officer Refuses To Shoot At Running Suspect; Southern California Firefighters Battle Wildfire; Italian Coast Guard Races To Save 700 Libyans After Boat Capsized In Mediterranean Sea; Remembering The Oklahoma City Bombing; Anti-Hillary Talk, Focus Of GOP Summit; Getting Ready For Boston Marathon; New Twist In Deadly Tulsa Shooting. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 19, 2015 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:20] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Happening right now in the NEWSROOM.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

WHITFIELD: A suspect charges, but the officer holds was ground and did not pull the trigger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted to be absolutely sure (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The entire scene caught on a body camera. How one officer's split-second decision saved another man's life?

And California residents forced to flee their homes as wildfires rage across hundreds of acres east of L.A. plus --

Free samples of marijuana in Colorado? We'll take you inside the phenomenon of the second annual cannabis cup.

NEWSROOM starts now.

Hello everyone and thanks for joining me. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

We begin with dramatic video of what could have been another deadly police shooting, only this time, the officer being threaten did not pull the trigger. In the video, an Ohio police officer is repeatedly being charged at by a double murder suspect who keeps yelling, "shoot me." Yes, even as the officer back pedals and at one point falls backwards, New Richmond officer Jesse Kidder refuses to fire a shot. The entire confrontation is captured by the officer's body camera here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hand up. Get your hands up. Get your hands up right now. Stop. Stop right there. I don't want to shoot you, man. I don't

want to shoot you.

That's enough. Don't do it, man.

I'll (INAUDIBLE) shot you. I'll shoot you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do what you want. No you won't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hand out of your pocket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shoot me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands out of your pocket, now. No man. I'm not going to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shoot me. Shoot me. Shoot me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it right now. Back up. Back up. Get down on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Subject is running. Subject is running.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep your hands up. Keep your hands out. You're going to get shot, you understand that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Incredible.

Joining us right now, CNN Polo Sandoval.

So the officer is being praised for his incredible restraint in this potentially life-threatening situation. What's the explanation that he gives as to why he did give this suspect that kind of a chance?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, you know, it's that simple. Just one shot. That's all that would have been necessary for this story to take a very different turn. Of course, we would be having a very different conversation right now. Well, now we know that wasn't the case and the officer did hold back on using deadly force. Here is the answer to your question. He explains exactly why he took that route.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JESSIE KIDDER, NEW RICHMOND POLICE OFFICER: I wanted to be absolutely sure before I used deadly force.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): New Richmond, Ohio police officer Jesse Kidder knows this confrontation could have taken a deadly turn. The man seen running towards him is a suspect in a double murder, according to CNN affiliate WLWT. Kidder tells the affiliate the man was trying to commit suicide by cop. KIDDER: He just kept repeating "shoot me." At one point, you know,

he said "shoot me or I'll shoot you."

SANDOVAL: Despite the man's refusal to comply and with tensions running high, Kidder doesn't pull the trigger.

KIDDER: He put his hand in his pocket there so my eyes are watching that hand right now. Nothing else.

KIDDER: Stop. Stop right there. I don't want to shoot you, man. I don't want to shoot you.

SANDOVAL: Kidder back pedals and eventually loses his footing. But he keeps his cool and his sights on the suspect. Backup arrives just in time.

KIDDER: Get down on the ground.

Law enforcement officers across the nation have split-second decisions that mean life or death.

SANDOVAL: The decision to shoot or not shoot doesn't come easy according to experts. Officers often have to make that decision under pressure.

TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR: You are gambling as a police officer that if he pull as pistol out of his pocket, you can shoot him and stop him before he has time to get a shot off and kill you. And that might be a tenth of a second.

SANDOVAL: A second that could last a lifetime.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: Now, you e see, officer kidder adds his military background likely allowed him to manage the situation the way he did. You see he is a former marine that served two tours of duty. Even the recipient of a purple heart, Fred. Last thing I should mention, that camera he was wearing that captured those images, that was not department issued. His family actually bought it for the officer. It was really another pair of eyes to keep watch as he continued to work the beat. Of course, they were unaware that it would eventually catch these very powerful images -- Fred.

[14:05:23] WHITFIELD: Powerful indeed.

All right, Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.

All right, let's dig deeper into this story. Joining us now from New York is former FBI agent Jonathan Gilliam. So Jonathan is also a former Navy Seal. He becomes quite the regular here.

All right, Jonathan, so Officer Kidder served in Iraq as a marine and is also a Purple Heart recipient. Do you think that military training played a role in the kind of patience, that's my word, no one else's, but in the patience as this suspect was - running toward him and he was talking to him saying, I don't want to shoot, and ultimately he did not?

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Fred, it is always great to be here with you. I'm going to surprise a little bit a few people here. I think that the beginning of this scenario was very well done. I think the way the officer moved out of his car and kept his distance from the suspect was good. There is a problem though. Backing up as you see is a problem when he fell down.

WHITFIELD: Why? What do you mean?

GILLIAM: Well, because he fell down. We've shown in training, and he's been trained, having been in the military, you do not back up. There is a reason why. If that guy, if you look at the video, the guy puts his hands back in his pocket. I'll go over the use of deadly force policy in a moment. But the individual, the suspect has his hands in his pocket. As the officer backs up and falls down, his hands are still in his pocket. As Mr. Fuentes said, within a fraction of a second he could have pulled that weapon out and shot him.

That's why you don't back up. Retreating a little bit is fine. He continued to back up to the point where the guy put his hands in his pocket. He knows he just committed a violent felony by possibly murdering somebody. He wants to do suicide by cop. When he fell down, he had gone too far and put himself in harm's way. You have to remember --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: And I know it's hard to say devil's advocate except I know you've been in a lot of circumstances and you are drawing upon your own experiences. But in this kind of case, might it have been that this officer ascertained this might be a suicide by cop situation being played out, he was backing up to continue to create that distance between he and this suspect? Is that something that in training you have to be mindful of, that potential and perhaps that's why he was creating that space backing up?

GILLIAM: Well, in training, we are taught the reality of the statistics. And as statistics say that within 21 feet, that individual can charge you before you draw a weapon. This officer had a weapon out. But when he fell down, he didn't know what the guy had in his hand at that point.

And here is the most important part of this whole thing, Fred, is that if you look around at the video, there are houses everywhere. This officer's job is not just to protect his life, but to make sure that threat does not pose imminent danger on the public around him. At that point, he did. The officer, at the point where he started to back up and the guy put his hand back in his pocket, he should have, in my view, shot the suspect. Because remember, you're eliminating the threat. That is the biggest thing here.

WHITFIELD: Yes. OK. Well, great risk was taken, but in the end, no one was killed. No one was hurt. Is that the silver ling in your view or are you just looking at all the things in your view went wrong? GILLIAM: Well, OK. So when you say silver lining, he is lucky. And

everybody is lucky that the guy did not have a weapon on him. But you cannot when you go into this situation, look at the silver lining. You know, Fred, you have to remember, an officer's job when they go out there is to defend the public from these threats that are out there and also to go home alive himself. And this individual is alive because this officer showed great restraint, but he went, in my opinion, he went too far. His training did not tell him to do that. And you know, the department is really backing him up because the video, and because the guy, you know, actually did not get shot. But I think it's the wrong point to make. I think that the public should start realizing there is a point when officers can no longer retreat. That it's big point here.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jonathan Gilliam, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

GILLIAM: Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) on the left.

Right now, Southern California firefighters are hoping high humidity and low winds keep working in their favor as they battle a dangerous wildfire. It broke out last night near drought-stricken corona east of Los Angeles. More than 300 firefighters are trying to beat back flames before they reach homes. At least 300 families were told to evacuate.

CNN meteorologist Tom Sater is here to explain.

My goodness, the ingredients are perfect for this kind of fire. It's a very unsettling situation with the California drought that it has been.

[14:10:21] TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: This is just the beginning. I mean, what a long season this is going to be. The drought-stricken area is tinder and dry. And here is what we are looking at. This occurred right about 6:00 in the evening. Started out with just a 30- acre fire and quickly grew to over 300 acres, 15 percent containment right now. But as you mentioned, Fredricka, we are looking at a little bit of breeze right now. This is just to the southwest of riverside in the town of Corona. But the winds do lighten up at night. That is great news. But better news, the humidity which I know is low right now and they are battling this now, but the humidity will increase as a marine layer comes in off the ocean. And it just happens to really kick up a good 95 percent humidity. This won't put out the fire, but will aid the firefighters greatly. They are using two big tankers, too, as well.

It's tinder dry in the west. We know that flooding has been going on in the southeast and severe weather. Later today from eastern Texas, eastern Oklahoma, the entire state of Arkansas, we are talking from around Shreveport, Little Rock, Memphis, and enhanced chance of severe weather that slightly east. But for the morning hours, in the southeast, we've already found ourselves looking at a number of tornado watches. And we had some warnings, too. Two watches. At one point, it include metro Atlanta and they just

continue that for good reason. Here is our two watches. This one goes just south of actually of Charlotte. Both contain about a million people. The second one that was south of Macon will expire around 3:00 p.m. And in fact, it should expire before that. It's almost over with, but that, Fredricka, the threat moves quickly to the east. So we'll be watching this throughout the day. The big threat, really, parts of the Midwest, eastern Texas through the entire state of Arkansas to the Ozarks and Missouri.

WHITFIELD: All right. Always the potential for tornado activity there, especial kind of condition like this.

All right, thanks so much, Tom.

SATER: You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: Keep us posted. Appreciate it.

All right, a massive rescue effort is under way in the Mediterranean Sea. Hundreds are feared lost as a boat headed from Libya to Italy capsizes. Find out what the Pope and other European leaders are saying about the flow of migrant families trying to escape horrific conditions at home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:40] WHITFIELD: The Italian coast guard is racing to save 700 Libyan migrants after their boat capsized in the Mediterranean Sea. The migrants reportedly rushed to one side of the boat as rescuers an approached, causing it to tip over. And so far, the coast guards have only saved 28. Since the beginning at least 900 migrants have died in the area.

Pope Francis in fact is concerned the sea is becoming a grave yard. And Malta's prime minister tells CNN its genocide when human traffickers facilitate these risky tricks.

Our Philip Black joins us now from London.

So Phil, EU leaders too will be holding an emergency meeting on immigration this week. What can they do to perhaps save more lives?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There will going to be a lot of debate, really, Fredricka. Human rights groups are very blunt. They say that the European Union must do more to save people at sea. That is, they must have a bigger standing search and rescue operation to help the people, the desperate people boarding these vessels often in Libya to cross the Mediterranean to try and get to Europe. But so often getting into trouble, and too often losing their lives.

European Union leaders, some of them, including Britain for example feel very strongly that if you provide that search and rescue operation, you are in fact providing an incentive for more people to board these dangerous vessels, endanger their lives and too often lose them. They blame the people smugglers themselves or the root causes, the conflicts that these people are fleeing.

But it is really the human rights groups that are warning that people are going to board these boats regardless. It doesn't matter if there is a search and rescue operation under way already because these people are so desperate, they are fleeing for their lives. And it's the logical choice for them to get on these boats even if it is a risk to their safety.

WHITFIELD: Get a hop out rain (ph). You know, their reason for risk.

All right, Phil Black, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

All right, it has been 20 years since the federal building in Oklahoma city was destroyed by explosives, people killed. Today survivors of the blast and family members of the victims gathered to observe the anniversary. Next, I'll talk with one family who has been living with the impact of that day ever since.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:40] WHITFIELD: Twenty years ago today, 168 people lost their lives in the Oklahoma City bombing. Anti-government militants Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, both former U.S. army soldiers blew up a truck packed with explosives at the Alfred P. Murrah federal building, an act of domestic terrorism. Today hundreds of people gathered at a memorial to the victims built at the site of the attack. Bill Clinton who was president at the time of the attack returned today to remember the victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You honored the memories of your loved ones. You have inspired us with the power of your renewal. You have reminded us that we should all live by the Oklahoma standard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: McVeigh was executed in 2001. And Nichols is serving multiple life sentences. Today survivors are gathering at the site. And among the people gathered at that remembrance service, Jim and Claudia Denny, they nearly lost their two children Rebecca and Brandon who were at the day care center inside the federal building that day where 19 children died. They join me now with Brandon who suffered a serious brain injury at the bombing.

Good to see both of you, Jim and Claudia.

JIM DENNY, CHILDREN SURVIVED OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING: Thank you, Fredricka. It's a pleasure to be with you.

WHITFIELD: So what was today like for you as a family?

J. DENNY: Well, today was actually, I think for both of Claudia and I, today was the most difficult anniversary of them all. You know, a week ago four of the other surviving children, obviously we have two, but four of the other surviving children were down taking some pictures down at the memorial. And to see them all grown up, young adults, going to college with the smiles on their faces, and then walking by the small chairs after we spoke to them, it was hard to imagine what those other 15 children would be doing right now and the impact they would be having on other people's lives. It was very, very difficult.

WHITFIELD: I know it's been a very difficult 20 years. In fact, and Jim, you actually were dropping off your kids at the day care on that day. At what point, if you can take me back, did you learn of the explosion occurred and the thoughts racing through your mind about your children?

J. DENNY: Well, actually Claudia and I were a one-car family then. We got up and did the same thing we do every day, and put the kids in the cars, fixed them a couple of sandwiches and dropped them off at the day care about 7:30 and we went on to work. And at 9:02 in the shop that I was managing, all the doors started rattling. I'm originally from southern California.

So I thought we just had an earthquake in Oklahoma. And they came on the TV in the break room and they called me in there within a couple of minutes. And they said a bomb went off at the federal building. And Claudia called me and I rushed down there. And I stood across the street 15 minutes after it happened. Catty-corner to the building about probably about 30, 40 yards and looked up at the day care center. And it was not in the building. So obviously, no panic set in. I think our faith took over. No panic set in, but we needed to find our children. It was such an horrific event.

There were cars in the parking lot across the street, actually, where the survivor tree, actually blown in half. And I mean, my goodness, I mean, everything goes through your mind at once, you know. It is like why would somebody do this in Oklahoma City, of all places? But it happened. And after long battles with hospitals and doctors and Brandon with four major brain surgeries and seven years of therapy and 126 days in intensive care just in 1995, we are really, really in pretty good shape.

This morning was an opportunity to say hello to a lot of wonderful people, and cry a little bit with them. And just let them know we love them and we have -- even though we don't see each other a lot during the year, we have this special bond. And I'm sure other people like the people in New York and in the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania know just what I'm feeling. It's a horrible, horrible, helpless feeling. You are so adequate (ph). Everything is so out of control and you can't do anything about it. WHITFIELD: So Claudia, especially with your son Brandon behind you,

having gone through what Jim just described, four surgeries and, you know, countless other treatments over the years, this has been hard for the family. To hear your husband say you're all in pretty good shape, describe how you've been able to be positive in these 20 years?

CLAUDIA DENNY, CHILDREN SURVIVED OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING: I think we've just focused on the positives. We didn't focus on anything negative. And we just got through it with faith, family and friends. And Rebecca is thriving. She is graduating from college this May. She is going to get married in June, June the 26th? Brandon works four days a week. We just, you know, we just focused on positive things and not negative. I think that's how we got through it.

WHITFIELD: These are beautiful pictures of your children, Rebecca and Brandon, of course, pictures of the whole family.

Well, congratulations on her upcoming nuptials. You are all an incredible family exemplifies family and strength. And thanks so much for your time. And all the best to you.

Jim, Claudia and Brandon Denny, thank you so much.

J. DENNY: Thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: And we'll have much more of the NEWSROOM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, New Hampshire is catching its breath today on the heels of 19 presidential hopefuls blitzing through the nation's first primary state. Now it's Hillary Clinton's turn.

CNN politics senior reporter, Stephen Collinson, is joining me now from Washington. Good to see you.

All right, Clinton, as we know, in her rollout, that she is officially in. She had very small intimate setting meetings with people in Iowa, this in comparison to her rollout in 2008, quite the contrast. So what's the strategy as she descends on New Hampshire tomorrow and Tuesday?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: You are going to see more of the same, small, intimate events. Secretary Clinton is going to meet with educators, students, and people in the small business expect to see her do off-the-record events, coffee shops. We saw her at Chipotle last week.

The plan is to show Hillary Clinton not as the most famous woman in the world, but someone that is running for president listening to the dreams and the problems and aspirations of everyday Americans.

Behind the scenes, just as importantly, you are going to see her meet local lawmakers, activists, power brokers in New Hampshire as she lays down the foundation of not just what she hopes is a primary campaign, but also general election campaign in what is going to be a swing state.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. During this weekend in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton wasn't even there yet, but she was already in the spotlight because the majority of the contenders were all talking about Hillary Clinton.

It was very much the rollout of the anti-Hillary Clinton campaign in a very big way. So how does she get the last word? What's the message she would need to send to those smaller groups, conservative groups there in New England to kind of upstage the lasting messages coming from these 19 contenders?

COLLINSON: It was very interesting. As you mentioned, there's almost this anti-Hillary Clinton primary going on already in the Republican campaign. Candidates are vying with each other to be the best person to take on Hillary Clinton.

You've got Marco Rubio calling her the candidate of yesterday. You've got Scott Walker saying her shopping habits show she's out of touch. I think what you are going to see is Hillary Clinton stressing these economic issues that she's been stressing all along.

Saying that while implicitly saying while she might be of an older generation of some of these younger Republican candidates, their economic policies look more to the past than look to the future, she says she wants to build an economy of the future to benefit middle class people. You are going to see an interesting contrast there, I think.

WHITFIELD: OK, and while it's Hillary Clinton who is running, of course, questions are always going to be asked about her husband the former president. In fact, CNN.com is reporting that Bill Clinton offered his first comments.

He was at the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, but was asked about her. Apparently said, I'm very proud of her, proud of her run for the White House. How do you suppose he will be parlayed into her campaigning?

COLLINSON: Yes, it's one of the big questions of her campaign. You remember back in 2008, Fredricka, Bill Clinton was almost a distraction. There was feuding between Bill Clinton's camp and the Hillary Clinton campaign between the two staffs.

I understand that he is going to be much more closely behind the scenes involved this year in terms of strategy, but still a problem about how do they use, Bill Clinton.

Remember, he is one of the foremost Democratic political animals still active, you know, in politics. Remember back in the 2012 campaign when he emerged as a very eloquent spokesman for President Barack Obama.

So he's certainly has formidable political skills, which can be brought to bear on behalf of his wife. How does he do that without overshadowing her? We are talking about a campaign of the future, not the past. Republicans will want to hark back to the scandals of the 1990s.

So it's a very delicate task the Clinton campaign has. It's going to be interesting watching how they differentiate that from the trouble they had in handling Bill Clinton in 2008.

WHITFIELD: All right, Stephen Collinson, thank you so much in Washington. All right, Boston, Boston getting ready for traditionally

festive day, but today it is bittersweet. Our Alexandra Field is in Boston.

[14:35:05] ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Fredricka. Patriots Day, Marathon Monday, is still among the city's most beloved traditions. People here want to keep that tradition alive and keep people coming out.

We'll talk coming up after the break about what officials are doing to try and make this year's event a safe one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:39:05]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER (voice-over): Last weekend, grand slam and Olympic champion, Andy Murray, married his long-time girlfriend, Kim Sears, at the Dublin Cathedral with the support of his hometown fans and family.

The world number three emerged wearing a traditional Scottish kilt and the bride looking beautiful in a gown by British designer, Jenny Packa. The people waited all day in wind, rain and even snow to get a glimpse of the happy couple. Scottish tennis fans watched Murray grow from a young by to sporting legend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely fabulous to see them today. It was lovely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a hero. It's something that all local boys would really strive to do.

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Even the local businesses joined the festivities with one serving special sweetheart burger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've been very popular. We've not been able to make them quick enough.

[14:40:01] UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: After the ceremony, the newlyweds celebrated at a private party, but the honeymoon had to be put on hold until after the tennis season. This is one match that will stay with Andy Murray forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, about now, some 30,000 runners are hydrating and carb loading for what will be an emotional and historic run at the Boston marathon. Tomorrow's landmark race comes against the back drop of the sentencing phase for convicted Boston bomber, Tsarnaev.

CNN's Alexandra Field joins us now from Boston. So Alexandra, what kind of security might runners expect? FIELD: Well, Fred, this is Boylston Street. We are a couple blocks away from the finish line. This is where some of the biggest crowds gathered. Authorities dedicated a lot of resources to secure the 26.2 mile marathon route. They told people they will see a lot of uniformed officers. They will also see a lot of plain clothes officers out here.

We are told more than 100 cameras will be out here along the marathon route. People could be stopped at random check points. They could be searched. Pack lightly. Don't bring big bags or backpacks. They are also being encouraged to come out here, to be here and celebrate this important day in the city.

This is afterall the marathon. It is a test of strength. It is a feat of endurance and when you consider the huge crowds that turned out last year, just a year after the marathon bombings, it's also become a symbol really of this city's resilience -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Alexandra Field, thank you so much in Boston.

All right, was Robert Bates qualified to be a reserve deputy for the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office? New details on the battle over his training records and a potential leak of fallout from this controversial case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:51]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDEN: Tax season just wrapped up. Now is the perfect type to prepare for next year. One of the things you should think business trying to duct your medical expenses. You may be able to do it.

If you're under 65, you can deduct medical expenses if they exceed 10 percent of your adjusted gross income. For example, if you make $50,000 a year, if that's your adjusted gross income, you can deduct expenses that exceed $5,000.

That rule is even more generous if you are over the age of 65. If you think you're eligible to deduct medical expenses, start tracking them now and keep your receipts. There are things you may not realize are considered medical expenses.

Of course, whatever you pay out of pocket for doctors and dentist visits that would count as long as you're not using your medical SSA and also prescription drugs, but transportation to and from appointments that would also count.

Another thing you can start doing now is start planning your surgeries and other expensive procedures. Let's say for example you need an MRI and two other kinds of expensive procedures. It's best to have those all in one year from a financial point of view. It will help more on your taxes.

WHITFIELD: A new twist in the case of a reserve Oklahoma deputy who shot and killed an unarmed suspect instead of tasing him, the "Tulsa World Newspaper" is stand buying its report that Robert Bates' training records were forged.

This is after the lawyer for Bates released a host of records he claims proves Bates was qualified to serve as a reserve deputy. The paper says, "The Tulsa World stands firmly behind our story. The record released by Robert Bates' attorney Saturday do not contradict our story in the least, in fact they support what we have reported."

All of this happening even as Bates faces manslaughter charges and remains free on $25,000 bail. Let's talk more about this with former Judge Glenda Hatchett and trial attorney, Esther Panitch, both here. Good to see both of you.

It's really unusual. There are a lot of things that are unusual, but unusual here usually you have a police-involved shooting and the last person you hear from is the police officer at the center of the investigation.

Here we are seeing a very talkative Mr. Bates and his attorney providing this kind of material, flooding the market with documents, incomplete or otherwise. What's the strategy here? Most attorneys would not be recommending this, right, Esther?

ESTHER PANITCH, CRIMINAL AND CIVIL TRIAL ATTORNEY: That's correct. Most attorneys would tell their clients anything that you say anywhere will be held against you. Keep your mouth quiet. It seems they are trying to head off some bad PR and to neutralize what the prosecutor is putting out there or the family is putting out there.

GLENDA HATCHETT, FORMER HOST, "JUDGE HATCHETT": Something we heard so much earlier in the week that he wasn't trained. So I think this is an attempt to try to neutralize that. But I will tell you, Fred, that lawyer better be absolutely clear about those records.

So Esther and I looked at those records. There are 60-plus documents in there. There is nothing that you can really say one way or another. There are records saying training was provided two hours such and such a day and he goes on and on.

But the question I have for the attorney is, have you checked it? Have you verified it? Have you gone independently to the instructors because if it's not right, it's going to be a huge problem.

WHITFIELD: I am no attorney, but I'm learning from you and others if you have this documentation that says, I am trained, I am certified, I know the circumstances in which to use this weapon and how control, et cetera, that does not help.

Because now you are saying you didn't follow protocol or perhaps now want can discern there may be intent actually from you pulling out your pistol instead of taser. If you are trying to support and say I have the training and I know when and I've got the muscle memory, the actions do not speak to that. PANITCH: This is not good. It's a catch-22. They are saying they are trained, if trained how are they making this mistake? We don't hear nationally of trained officers making this type of mistake.

[14:50:09] So unless there is something different about this particular taser, which it doesn't appear to be then it's -- you don't want to say how trained you are because you made the mistake being that trained.

WHITFIELD: And it doesn't help that this taser looks distinctively different from the pistol and on a different part of the body in which it was held.

HATCHETT: Either way. Either you are trained and should have known better or you falsified the records and weren't trained. In any event, this is a problem. There are two different things. We have a manslaughter charge against him. It will remain to see whether the jury will find him responsible for manslaughter. There doesn't have to be intent to commit manslaughter.

WHITFIELD: Does this lay the ground work for a civil case to follow?

HATCHETT: Absolutely. To my point exactly, the civil case will rest on the training and whether he was qualified and whether he should have been carrying this gun on a sting operation. What we know about this man, he is independently wealthy. He has given a lot of money to the sheriff's department, to election campaigns. Who gives a car to a sheriff's department? And in my mind --

WHITFIELD: So did he buy his way into being on the police force?

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Being part of a sting operation that he wasn't essential.

PANITCH: It's amazing to me that the police department would allow that kind of liability, would allow that kind of actions taken on its behalf by somebody who is not a sworn officer and employed by the sheriff's office.

HATCHETT: Look at the reaction of the officers on the scene when it happened. You shot him?

WHITFIELD: Yes, they were surprised.

HATCHETT: You know, I mean, and I don't know if there was even justification for a taser at this point. There were so many officers right there on the scene.

PANITCH: Right. He may be a wanna-be cop. We've seen wanna-be cops before, George Zimmerman was one. These police officers, these police agencies need to be very, very careful who they allow to hold a deadly weapon while doing volunteer service.

HATCHETT: Certainly will be a civil suit.

WHITFIELD: All right, Esther Panitch, Judge Hatchett, thanks so much.

All right, the people who make money from the business of marijuana are meeting in Colorado. Ana Cabrera is there. What's going on?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Fred. There are 650 vendors in the marijuana industry here to market their pot products from marijuana-infused marshmallows to machines like these that are made to consume cannabis. This is the Colorado Cannabis Cup. We'll give you a look around when we come back.

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[14:56:28]

WHITFIELD: All right, it calls itself the world leading marijuana trade show. The Cannabis Cup is making a stop in Colorado this weekend. This is a state where hundreds of pot shops have popped up since recreational marijuana became legal.

Last year alone, it was a $700 million industry. Ana Cabrera is in Denver for us today. The show is just opening its doors for the day. I see some vendors are even giving out free samples, I understand, free samples of what?

CABRERA: Well, they are giving out samples of trying out things, but they aren't really giving out the pot products here on the Cannabis Cup site because that's not allowed. People are maybe sharing with their friends if they are participating in this event.

It's allowing them to try out some of the marijuana accessories that are being sold here on site. Accessories like these glass rigs that can ring from $600 up to a couple thousand dollars just to purchase a product like this, which you put the THC-infused oil in, heat it up and that's another way to consume cannabis.

As we walk and talk here, we are told there are hundreds of vendors who are on site here at the Cannabis Cup trying to market their products to marijuana enthusiasts. We have the marshmallows and s'mores being made here.

This is a company that does edibles, marijuana edibles. They are not giving samples of the medicated marshmallows, we are told, but allowing people to taste what their marshmallows are like.

This company here won the Cannabis Cup several times. This is a company that does deal in the root of the cannabis plant. And there are t-shirts. It is clear there are a few of those marijuana samples being divvied out. They are not supposed to be. Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: Fascinating stuff. It is quite the business. All right, thank you so much. Ana Cabrera there in Denver.

All right, well, it started with "Weed 1" then sprouted "Weed 2." Now Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at it again and he is reaching higher than ever with "Weed 3," the movement behind it, the radical research. Watch "Weed 3" the revolution tonight at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

And then at 10:00, it's "High Profits," we see how marijuana is changing the way Colorado does business and a unique look inside two Colorado dispensaries fighting to stay open.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are parasites. They've got no contribution to this society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are preying on our community and our kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to end badly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got exactly $100,000 in cash in the back of this car. I bet there's guys right there in that prison for doing just what we're about to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want the Breckenridge Cannabis Club to be a household name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is us pioneering a new industry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going after every resort town in Colorado. His plan is brilliant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a big boy operation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not the Amsterdam of the Rockies. We're Breckenridge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely unbelievable to us that this happened so quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's when the town erupted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we have an image to protect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Powerful elite has put the pressure on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone is playing everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're going to have a target painted on their back. That is a real threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's $2 billion to be had next year. I plan to take more than my fair share.

ANNOUNCER: "HIGH PROFITS" series premiere Sunday night at 10:00.

(END VIDEOTAPE)